December Model Aviation

[Mike Keville]

No matter what your opinion on the AMA as an organization maybe we can all agree that they put out a lousy MODEL AIRPLANE magazine.

======================================
Roger that.  More like a toy catalog.

[Randy Cuberly]

Well, I'm not an angry old man and anyone who calls me one to my face will probably get punched, and punched, and...

Randy Cuberly

PS:  Anyone that's really paying attention to what's happening in our society today would have to be a little angry...or stupid!

[Steve Hines]

So witch are you Randy. Oh ya you said that your not angry.

Steve

[wwwarbird]

 Check out the Prez's Christmas photo in the President's Perspective column on page 6, "Santa" proudly pulling his new drone/copter out of the gift bag, the bag that's likley hiding the bulge in his pants. What a tool. 

[wwwarbird]

Don't throw them into the trash can. Toss them into the recycle bins. I did mine tonight. At least the paper is good for something...

 Thanks Ty that's a great idea, I'll have a whole bunch of them loaded and ready for the next pickup.

[Randy Cuberly]

So witch are you Randy. Oh ya you said that your not angry.

Steve

Well, I'm smart enough to spell "which" correctly!   So...I guess we know which you are.

Besides my PHd says I'm not stupid uhhh well not all the time anyway!....

[George]

Some thoughts:

AMA has to include something between the covers, how many of us have submitted articles about CL? Have you ever submitted a plan or a modification of an existing model? I haven't.

How about pictures of a contest? I think most communicate on-line now.

If we don't send them anything, how can they print it?

George

[dave siegler]

Well, you can expect that to be thrown around after a while when there are at least several threads a month, maybe even a week, that are all about bashing MA and the direction of the AMA.  It's the same old same old thing every single time.

"I never read MA I just throw it out."
"MA sucks."
"No one builds anymore."
"Quads are going to kill the AMA."
"Qauds are a money grab and they dont care about us."

And on and on and on and on.....  And you wonder why people throw around the grumpy old men tag.  You even put it in your
signature.  Then in the very next breath some will say, now how are we going to get the younger crowd interested again in CL....really?? 

Awesome Doug!

Quad copters are all over the magazines because people buy them. 
Hobby shops don't stock control line kits because people (in general) don't buy them.
Hobby shops go you of business because people don't spend money there.

I keep hearing people saying they are going to not review their AMA membership due to quad copters, and yet bitch about the AMA? HuH?
Do you think the AMA would know you  left or even care?  They don't because there are 10000 potential new members for every control liner .
The AMA will adopt to the mainstream as you would expect. 
It's not some ordained right because you spend (or don't) $75 a year.
   

Maybe all you negative energy guys should all form a little club?  Elect officers, publish a magazine that meets your needs, get insurance.  I won't join

[Mike Griffin]

Some thoughts:

AMA has to include something between the covers, how many of us have submitted articles about CL? Have you ever submitted a plan or a modification of an existing model? I haven't.

How about pictures of a contest? I think most communicate on-line now.

If we don't send them anything, how can they print it?

George

George I have submitted three different articles pertaining to CL to Model Aviation over the years.  Not only did they not print them, they did not even acknowledge that they received them. 

Mike

[Mike Griffin]

Well, I'm smart enough to spell "which" correctly!   So...I guess we know which you are.

Besides my PHd says I'm not stupid uhhh well not all the time anyway!....

Excellent Randy. 

Mike

[Jim Carter]

I don't really care what the AMA prints between its magazine covers.  I only read it if there is a C/L article (seldom).

I pay my dues only because it is required.  Our flying field requires AMA.  Also any contest I enter requires it.

It's just that simple.

Floyd

Floyd, I have to agree with you on this: "I only read it if there is a C/L article (seldom)."  They, the magazine publishers, can't print what they don't receive!!  Apparently, remaining crop of builders and flyers aren't creating, building, writing and submitting enough articles in enough quantity to flood the magazine.  They, the complainers, seem to forget there was a time when there were enough "interested" builders, writers and articles submitted to support the publishing of five (5) magazines!!  Where are those creative minds now??  Who picked up the gauntlet??  Remember, for the most part, if you want a drink of water, you have to get up and get it ....... if you want more C/L articles and designs in print, "you" have to write them!  If the current C/L flyers could submit just ten (10) articles per month out of the 50 states, 120 articles per year, I bet there would be a significant change in the construct of the magazine, the marketing and over time, the advertising or am I missing something?

[Clancy Arnold]

I have had three articles published in Model Aviation magazine and have submitted two more.  If you have an idea for an article call J. Smith at (765) 287-1256 extension 225 and discuss it with him.  I have found Jay is easy to talk to.

The best "story" about quad copters I have read was in the comics section of our local news paper.  Quad Copter flying was the subject of the Comic Strip "CRANKSHAFT" by Batiuk & Ayers.  It was in The Indianapolis Star, Monday November 9, 2015 through Saturday November 21, 2015 except Sunday November 15, 2015.  

Clancy    

 

[Randy Cuberly]

I'm very happy to see that some folks defend the AMA on this issue.  It confirms my theory that there are some people that are so indoctrinated into a warped society that they will accept anything that comes from what they believe to be an authoritative source.  Be good little robots!  Perhaps someday you will become human...or maybe not.

Randy Cuberly

[Fred Cronenwett]

Clancy is right if you call Jay and propose an idea he might bite. But you have to have high resolution pictures and an idea.

The other item I have noticed that not many people take pictures and send them into anyone who writes a column. Cell phones have become the new camera for almost everybody and how often do these pictures get sent out people who maintain the CL websites and write the columns. When I attend a CL contest I pull out a real camera with a zoom lens and take lots of pictures. The Lafayette Esquadrille CL website has pictures from our events and information on the CL contests we host during the year.

My point is that even if you only submit a picture to the disctrict VP column or other folks who write columns that can help promote our events.

These are the kinds of items that we can propose

reviews of kits or ARF's
construction article with plans
Technical or how to articles
Contest articles
Send stuff to the disctrict VP
send photos and info to folks who write columns
Focal point

Lots of choices...remember to send High resolution photos instead of the tiny pictures you normally see on a website

Fred

[FLOYD CARTER]

Jim C.  Of course I agree.  MA magazine has indeed published my feature construction article on "Wildman 60".  That was back when Bob Hunt had some clout with the mag.  I'm not sure the present MA staff would consider it, unless the manuscript was in perfect condition "ready for print".

Floyd C.

[Doug Moon]

Floyd, I have to agree with you on this: "I only read it if there is a C/L article (seldom)."  They, the magazine publishers, can't print what they don't receive!!  Apparently, remaining crop of builders and flyers aren't creating, building, writing and submitting enough articles in enough quantity to flood the magazine.  They, the complainers, seem to forget there was a time when there were enough "interested" builders, writers and articles submitted to support the publishing of five (5) magazines!!  Where are those creative minds now??  Who picked up the gauntlet??  Remember, for the most part, if you want a drink of water, you have to get up and get it ....... if you want more C/L articles and designs in print, "you" have to write them!  If the current C/L flyers could submit just ten (10) articles per month out of the 50 states, 120 articles per year, I bet there would be a significant change in the construct of the magazine, the marketing and over time, the advertising or am I missing something?

And you know what,,,,,SN is going to be the same way if people don’t start writing and submitting articles.  Bob Hunt asks for articles and writers in EVERY ISSUE!  He is still begging for content every month.  There is no longer an abundance of info ready to be printed. 

I am the Dist 8 rep right now and I receive information regularly from TWO people in my district.  One submit pics from every contest he goes too and the other submits content and pics.  That is all I receive on a regular basis.  Why?  Is all of the content and how tos about CL already done?  Are people tired of doing it?  Do people not want to even try? I am not sure but it is happening at an alarming rate. I have been the rep now for 2 terms and put it out there to several people in my district that I won’t seek another term, life with three kids under 12 is just too darn busy, and no one wants to step up.  I will posting this in my next column as well. 

So, while all of you are griping about the AMA SN is shrinking on its own.  What are we going to do about it? 

 

[Brett Buck]

AMA may not be a business but it's existence depends on memberships. I don't have numbers but would bet money the existing "model builders" (both RC and CL) could not support the AMA. It needs quad and ARF buyers to stay in business.

   It would support an appropriately de-scoped AMA just fine. The issue is that they don't want to de-scope it, they want it to grow and grow and grow like a for-profit business. It's largely run by  "big fish in a small town" businessmen and that is their model for success.  This is how "marketing experts" operate. As in 2004, I think it is a mistake, and is absolutely not necessary for the survival of the AMA. It *is* required to keep up a massive cash flow.

   They do not operate as a "service" organization that most here would want them to be, so I am not wasting a lot of effort trying to fight them in this case. We should certainly look at an alternative because this war has long since been lost.

    Brett

[dave siegler]

I'm very happy to see that some folks defend the AMA on this issue.  It confirms my theory that there are some people that are so indoctrinated into a warped society that they will accept anything that comes from what they believe to be an authoritative source.  Be good little robots!  Perhaps someday you will become human...or maybe not.

Randy Cuberly

I am only defending the AMA in that they are doing what any organization would do, adapt or become extinct.

The AMA's membership base is aging rapidly, and they are reacting to it now.  

Promote model aviation, it was free flight rubber only, then gas, then control line then RC and now this.

What would have happened if when that noisy gas engine showed up at contest the AMA would have said.  "No we won't allow that!"

The other think that most of you don't see is you or I or the AMA of the FAA isn't going to stop the sales and use of quadcopters.  

The AMA has figured that out early. I don't agree with their direction but they picked one, and have been consistent.

So why not try to provide some leadership and common sense?  That is what the AMA's mission is.

So rather than bitch, send in articles to model aviation.  Get involved in AMA and make a difference.  (hard)

Or cowardly hide behind a forum and spew words about force you can't control.  (easy)

A a mindless robot indeed.  Wake up, it isn't 1962 anymore.

[Jim Roselle]

So let me see if I can correctly interpret what's been written. The abundance of quad articles in MA does not come from the AMA bending over backwards to cover quads. It comes from the already overwhelming majority of AMA members whose primary interest is quads submitting their own content to MA?

 Well if that's the case I feel little silly for causing such a stir.

My apologies.

[Randy Cuberly]

I am only defending the AMA in that they are doing what any organization would do, adapt or become extinct.

The AMA's membership base is aging rapidly, and they are reacting to it now.  

Promote model aviation, it was free flight rubber only, then gas, then control line then RC and now this.

What would have happened if when that noisy gas engine showed up at contest the AMA would have said.  "No we won't allow that!"

The other think that most of you don't see is you or I or the AMA of the FAA isn't going to stop the sales and use of quadcopters.  

The AMA has figured that out early. I don't agree with their direction but they picked one, and have been consistent.

So why not try to provide some leadership and common sense?  That is what the AMA's mission is.

So rather than bitch, send in articles to model aviation.  Get involved in AMA and make a difference.  (hard)

Or cowardly hide behind a forum and spew words about force you can't control.  (easy)

A a mindless robot indeed.  Wake up, it isn't 1962 anymore.

Dave,
I sincerely believe you're a good guy and that you believe what you are saying, but you're missing the theme of what is really going on.  Read Brett's post above.  It says essentially that the important issues for the AMA to address is the membership.  They are constantly looking for new cash flow.  The way to do that is through constant marketing and addressing NEW memberships.  Is that their Charter!  I think not!  They are supposed to be associated with education about model aviation, not how to market the latest flying toy!
I understand that our society has become one of instant gratification and that people have learned to expect to achieve something without expending much effort.  I just don't like to see what has happened to an organization that has responsibility to it's membership, constantly deny that membership and latch on to the latest and greatest toy just because it flys.

I personally have nothing against "drones", quad copters, arf R/C, ready to fly R/C etc.   I just don't believe it falls under the mantle of Modeling, and object to an organization that lives supposedly for modeling and the modeling membership but basically ignores that membership and endorses instead a mantra of marketing toys to feed their pocketbooks and grow the organization into something it was never intended to be.  All the while capturing and holding the competitive membership with rules and insurance that they have fostered to be necessary for competition.  They have established themselves as the controlling authority for MODEL AVIATION while, in my opinion, ignoring as much as possible the actual modeling community.

Yes I realize that the building community be it Control Line, Free Flight, or R/C is grossly in a minority but it's the AMA that has fostered that situation from a beginning supported by the very core that they now wish to ignore!  Were they a "for profit business" I would not object to their decision to follow the money but their charter is not as a business for profit.  They are a service organization for modelers who now, primarily due to their direction, they no longer support, or begrudgingly support.  They in fact act like a business aimed at marketing toys, and growing that toy marketing base at the expense of their base support!

Randy Cuberly  

[dave siegler]

<sigh> 
First of all I do not agree with the AMA position on this, but I understand it.
The AMA is doing what it thinks it should do to attract new members, and provide leadership in model aviation. 

It the AMA doesn't get involved in the drone situation the combination of FAA regulation, and death rate statistics will kill the ama quickly.

While some feel the AMA is not acting in the best interest of its current members,  it must project what it's future member base might be.  I am pretty sure that future member isn't flying a fox 35 on ringmaster in a ball field. 

He is probably flying an ARF quad or something like that.  This activity has the ability to attract a wide, younger member base.

All the bitching isn't going to change that. 

[Randy Cuberly]

<sigh>

<snip> 
He is probably flying an ARF quad or something like that.  This activity has the ability to attract a wide, younger member base.

All the bitching isn't going to change that. 

A change of leadership might and enough bitching can change that!  Just watch what happens in Washington next year!!

Randy Cuberly

[RC Storick]

A change of leadership might and enough bitching can change that!  Just watch what happens in Washington next year!!

Randy Cuberly

Make America great again!

[Mike Griffin]

Make America great again!

Thanks for reminding me Robert.  I need to order one of those hats.

Mike

[EJN]

Thanks for reminding me Robert.  I need to order one of those hats.

Mike

[RC Storick]

My dad was given a medal for his ww2 service Made in China. My Dad was kind of insulted when it broke. Everything is made in China that's why we need to play the Trump card.

[Doug Moon]

Ok so here is what I am puzzled about when it comes to MA and quad ads.  MA distribution is mainly to current members. I wouldnt think MA is what is used to drive potential members to join.  I never see it at a bookstore or where a large amount of magazines are sold. The current members check what they are most interested in when they join.  Are there so many members already stating quads as their main interest that it drives the ads?  Or are the manufacturers placing the ads for what they sell after they secure the ad space...??  I am not sure any of us know the answer but I am just curious.

[Randy Cuberly]

Ok so here is what I am puzzled about when it comes to MA and quad ads.  MA distribution is mainly to current members. I wouldnt think MA is what is used to drive potential members to join.  I never see it at a bookstore or where a large amount of magazines are sold. The current members check what they are most interested in when they join.  Are there so many members already stating quads as their main interest that it drives the ads?  Or are the manufacturers placing the ads for what they sell after they secure the ad space...??  I am not sure any of us know the answer but I am just curious.

I certainly don't have any inside information but do know a little about how advertising works.
Typically the magazine sales people contact the manufacturers and distributers of products they think would benefit by ads in the magazine.  The manufacturers are usually only impressed by things like circulation and column content.  In other words how many mags do they publish and how friendly is the editorial staff to their product.  That could account for all the positive support from the AMA leadership in recent publications.  They want the advertising money from who they judge to have the deepest pockets to buy multi page full color adds.  My guess is that right now that's the multi rotor folks.  Make no mistake, column content is always going to follow the advertisers in a commercial publication.  He who pays the most gets the best press.

The error here on AMA's part, in my opinion only, is that the AMA Mag is not just a commercial publication but a member supported rag and should follow the membership.  Is the AMA membership predominantly Quad rotor fliers.  I don't really know but seriously doubt it.  I do believe the AMA wants it to be because that's obviously where the money is!

Randy Cuberly

[dave siegler]

Ok so here is what I am puzzled about when it comes to MA and quad ads.  MA distribution is mainly to current members. I wouldnt think MA is what is used to drive potential members to join.  I never see it at a bookstore or where a large amount of magazines are sold. The current members check what they are most interested in when they join.  Are there so many members already stating quads as their main interest that it drives the ads?  Or are the manufacturers placing the ads for what they sell after they secure the ad space...??  I am not sure any of us know the answer but I am just curious.

The adds are being run because the vendor believes he can make money doing it.  They do market research. Its a new market and winning early market share is important.

Even if quads are not mainstream for the members, its easier to differentiate and get a larger margin on something new.  Its hard to make money on yet another foam ARF, but a new quad that no one has yet is easier to sell.

Why compete when selling a common item like balsa wood or monokote, instead you can run many pictures, of new products with differentiation in technology?

[Frank Imbriaco]

  I believe, like others,  the multirotor technology will benefit those of us who fly electric, but a lot of us(myself included) worry that  on account of them, something big will happen that'll cripple our hobby and severely restrict model aviation.
No surprise that most of the folks here( and in other avenues of model aviation) are older guys who spend a lot of their leisure time enjoying it. As a retiree, I would go a bit looney  if I didn't have toy airplanes.  We likely all have other hobby pursuits, but model aviation takes us through seasons of building and seasons of flying .

Good for our state of mind and  general  well being  .

The majority  are p.o.'ed at the AMA and MA for policies that we see are risking this. And, who among us older set wants to feel that we're being put out to pasture  because our way of doing it is passé  ?

[wwwarbird]

Ok so here is what I am puzzled about when it comes to MA and quad ads.  MA distribution is mainly to current members. I wouldnt think MA is what is used to drive potential members to join.  I never see it at a bookstore or where a large amount of magazines are sold. The current members check what they are most interested in when they join.  Are there so many members already stating quads as their main interest that it drives the ads?  Or are the manufacturers placing the ads for what they sell after they secure the ad space...??  I am not sure any of us know the answer but I am just curious.

 Doug,

 I'm not singling you out here, I'm just using your query as a spark. I also think you're correct about the MA rag itself not necessarily attracting new members. Probably 90% or better of all people that see it or even know the rag exists are present and/or past members.

 I think it's all fairly simple, the whole thing is that quad advertising=EASY $$$ for the AMA and LOTS of it. The scenario is probably more like the quad manufacturers being smart by recognizing and approaching the AMA rag as another marketing avenue and the AMA "powers that be" seeing the easy money. As I have repeated it's ALL about the $$$ with the AMA, and not 1% about the modelers or the heritage of the AMA organization. If anyone thinks otherwise they're kidding themselves. The whore-like abandonment of the AMA's modeling heritage and absolute guzzling of this Kopter Kool-Aid is why the current version of the "AMA" can kiss my A$$.

[Dzlstunter]

I am the secretary of our local model club.  I fly both RC and C/L, but more C/L.  I say this because I want you to understand my position on this issue.  I think the AMA has made a colossal mistake in aligning itself with multi-copter flyers and manufacturers.  

But the insurance is the problem.  We require AMA membership for our field simply because we want to be assured that every guy flying there has at least the secondary insurance provided.  Also, we can assure our landowner that he is insured for our activities on his property.  Like most people in the hobby, I have a homeowner's or tenant's liability policy which will cover my activities, but I am unwilling to take the chance that others have kept up their policies (or even have one).  In addition, many of our members travel to other fields which will require the same assurances even if a sanctioned contest is not on the menu.

If someone came up with a solution which provided the coverage AND was transportable to other venues, I believe the AMA would suffer an immediate decline in members (including me). Just my opinion.  Dzl

[Target]

+1 to above.