stunthanger.com
General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Lyle Spiegel on March 22, 2018, 07:03:57 AM
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new post on Amazon offering flying lines
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077XQ6985/ref=ox_sc_mini_detail?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3QOAKRTLJTQ27
it offers choice of 7 strand stainless or 4 strand brass (or brass coated?)
Is anyone familiar with the 4 strand?
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$30? Kind of steep. Are they made from Unicorn hair? LOL #^
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$30? Kind of steep. Are they made from Unicorn hair? LOL #^
Not if you look at details. This information is from Amazon:
- price includes shipping
- Lines come already made in lengths.
- pre-made lines are pull tested.
No other seller does this. Also, this is the only distributor of 4-strand lines in US that I know of.
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Buy lines from Tom Morris $20.00 plus shipping.
Custom Lengths and lines are wrapped not crimped.
Al
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Why would i want to use four strand "brass"? What are benefits vs traditional 7 strand stainless? I use nothing but linea from Tom.
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Hello.
I do not think the lines are brass.
From the Ukraina it is possible to obtain 4 strand lines in carbon steel brass coated , probably the one who translated the description was not accurate.
These are significantly stiffer than stainless steel, but stronger.
These lines are widely used for combat and by stuntmen from Eastern Europe.
Obviously maintenance must be more accurate due to potential corrosion.
However (in this case) the price does not seem appealing.
Massimo
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After seeing this I ran up to the local hobby shop and bought a set of "Sig" 70' x .018 for $12.00.
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I'll make my own from McMaster-Carr cable. Thanks.
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Dear All
Here in Brazil all top fliers use Ukraine lines .
I bought my from Yuriy Yatsenko (but I´m not a top flight very very bad flier)
The lines are different .
when you pull the lines the normal lines have flexibility , these Ukrainian lines is very rigid not elastic .
Sorry my English is difficult to explain
thank you
Guil
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Don't think you'd see a few of the stretch prone "stainless" lines mentioned above used at the W/C's ::)
let alone "Sig" probably worst of the bunch.
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Hello.
Many thanks to the administrators who missed me on this forum.
I very carefully read all the statements of the participants of the topic Ukrainian Lines and I really want to answer all questions since I am the manufacturer of this product. All lines are produced only by my hands and in small quantities. Before winding the plastic coil, each of the two lines is checked by a force of 22lb (10kg) for a diameter of 0.015in (0.38mm), 30lb (13.5kg) for a line with a diameter of 0.018in (0.45mm) and 40lb (18kg) for a line 0.014-0.016 in(0.36mm - 0.40mm). One line of carbon steel coated with brass withstands a tensile strength of 60lb (27kg).
Lines ready to use are produced of such length - 42-50-56-60-65-66 feet.
Kit sets of lines .015, .018, and .016 are produced of this length - 70 feet.
The lines covered with brass from the effects of moisture darken over time, but this does not change its characteristics. I, and my friends, all the members of the national team Stunt of Ukraine (my friend Sergey Solomyannikov, the owner of the World Cup F2B), and all the members of the F2D Combat national team of Ukraine, we use only brass 4-wire lines. In 2017, I personally flew all year on a single set of brass lines and performed 450 flights on the Stunt model with a 76 Stalker engine. It is a very powerful engine and we have very large aircraft models, and in very strong winds we fly only on the strongest lines that can be for today.
I'm very sorry that the price for the product that I installed on Amazon you all think is very high. I very carefully listen to criticism in my address. If you think that the cost of the product is very high, then write me here on the forum or me by e-mail. I will definitely listen to you and set the price of lines for Amazon less. It is very unfortunate that Amazon for the storage of goods and free delivery removes from my price 4.5USD (15% tax) + 2.41USD FBA FEE. Transfer of the line from Ukraine to the USA - $ 2USD . From the purchase of goods, I have only 21.08USD.
Who wants to test Kit sets of brass lines and write the result of the tests on the forum - write me your home address to the post office and in 5-7 days receive them for free.
Thank you very much for your attention.
Sincerely.
Ruslan Kurenkov / Stunt Pilot / FAI 95898 / Ukraine Kyiv / controllineparts@gmail.com
Ruslan Kurenkov, knows his "stuff" these guys don't fly profile Ringmasters HB~>
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The Ukrainian F2d combat lines that Mr. Kurenkov speaks of are much stronger than anything comparable we have here stateside. The length of the 2 individual lines are always virtually identical. Lines can be interchanged time-after-time with no control adjustment required on the airplane. I would assume that the same is true for stunt type lines.
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Experience & logic prevails hoorah #^
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After seeing this I ran up to the local hobby shop and bought a set of "Sig" 70' x .018 for $12.00.
You have a local hobby shop that knows what lines are? Wow!
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I believe these lines are more about stiffness than strength.
The "feel" like 18's, but are only 16's. Better aerodynamics and better feel.
The average sport flier need not spend that much money, but competition fliers might benefit.
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With only 4 strands but higher tensile strength there would theoretically be less compression in the cable which probably translates to much less "spring". That in my humble opinion has to be a good thing for real competition fliers!
I want some!!
Do they "handle and wrap" in the same manner as the more multi stranded wire or are they a lot stiffer to deal with when wrapping the ends?
What about the fact that they are .016 and AMA rules require .018 for 64 oz and heavier aircraft? Problem???
Randy Cuberly
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Hello.
Many thanks to the administrators who missed me on this forum.
I very carefully read all the statements of the participants of the topic Ukrainian Lines and I really want to answer all questions since I am the manufacturer of this product. All lines are produced only by my hands and in small quantities. Before winding the plastic coil, each of the two lines is checked by a force of 22lb (10kg) for a diameter of 0.015in (0.38mm), 30lb (13.5kg) for a line with a diameter of 0.018in (0.45mm) and 40lb (18kg) for a line 0.014-0.016 in(0.36mm - 0.40mm). One line of carbon steel coated with brass withstands a tensile strength of 60lb (27kg).
Rusian - do the .018" lines actually measure 0.018? I ask because I got some Ukrainian lines in the past that were smaller than a true 0.018 in some directions. For airplanes over 64 ounces, we cannot use them if they measure under 0.018".
I have flown on the .016 lines and found the same as Paul, they were distinctly more positive in terms of feel than the usual 0.018 7-strand and much better than the .018 19=strand. But they are illegal for competition for my airplane (and likely future airplanes).
Brett
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Hello, friends !
I am very glad that I have the opportunity to communicate with all members of your forum.
There are athletes I did not know before, but there are athletes I know very well about achievements.
Stainless Lines that we produce (command controllineparts) are not really Ukrainian. Brass lines are produced at a large plant in Belarus (200 miles from Kiev). In Ukraine, only the final product is produced. Before packing, each separate line ready for use, after crimping with copper tubes, is tested by me personally for the strength of both the cable itself and the crimp tubes and eyelets. During the test, a marriage is identified which is utilized. Only after the test the line is wound on the reel, packed and sent to the buyer. For me, as for the pilot stunt model, the most important thing is the quality of the product. I guarantee with the utmost responsibility the highest quality of my products.
For the tests, I sent to my good friend in the United States 10 sets of brass rope 70' long and 0.0145 (0.36 mm) diameter. This is the lightest and most durable (60lb) rope for Stunt model for today. At World Championships where American pilots participate, the FAI rules allow such a cable. I want to send it for testing to top American pilots like Paul Walker and Brett Buck and other pilots who participate in the discussion. For this, I need a delivery address and everything. All these 10 sets I'm ready to send free of charge. The delivery time is 3-5 days for USA.
The length of the cable 42-50-56-60-65-66 is from the eyelet to the eyelet.
If you have any questions about the products of the controllineparts, I will certainly reply within 12 hours (a big difference in time, when you have a day - I have a night).
Thank you very much for your communication.
Respectfully. Rusalan Kurenkov. https://www.facebook.com/ruslan.kurenkov / Controllineparts.
site : https://controllineparts.com/ PayPal payment system
A photo! Command controllineparts. From left to right - Sergii Solomianikov, Ruslan Kurenkov, Andrii Sopelniak.
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For the tests, I sent to my good friend in the United States 10 sets of brass rope 70' long and 0.0145 (0.36 mm) diameter. This is the lightest and most durable (60lb) rope for Stunt model for today. At World Championships where American pilots participate, the FAI rules allow such a cable. I want to send it for testing to top American pilots like Paul Walker and Brett Buck and other pilots who participate in the discussion.
Rusian - thanks for the offer! I have tried the lines from the Yatsenkos, I presume that these are similar. I will have to decline, I think, unless I am misunderstanding the issue. I would love to be able to use the brass-plated steel lines for the performance advantages, but unfortunately, if I understand correctly, they would not be legal for me to use in competition.
What you may not know is that the strength of the lines is only one of the factors for the legality of the lines. The AMA requires the lines to be a minimum diameter as well. The diameters are based on the commonly-available US line sizes - 0.008", 0.012". 0.015", 0.018" and 0.021 inches. They are chosen based on the model weight, and the industry stndard strength of stainless-steel 7-strand wire rope.
(https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/ukraine-lines/?action=dlattach;attach=283620;image)
Unfortunately, I would require 0.018" diameter lines (as measured - and they do measure them) for my models. The .016 lines would be legal but oversize for models less than 64 ounces, which might be worth doing for some near the top of the weight range, but are heavier and have more drag. The .0145 lines would only be usable for models less than 40 ounces, for which they are quite a bit oversize.
Almost no one (or maybe literally no one) reading Stunthangar today will ever fly in a contest where the FAI rules are used, so that is the issue people are having with the topic.
If I understand your comment correctly, the .018 line are "Fly By Wire" cables from Cablestrand, not the brass-plated steel lines we were discussing previously. I have already tested those, so no need for additional experimentation.
Brett
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A few guys here in New Zealand use them. I believe they have much less stretch than stainless lines.
I have been using PAW Staystrate 3 strand lines, which are made from fine piano wire and have been run through a solder bath. They are awesome, no stretch and they do not bind up at all.
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Hi Ruslan:
My competition model is 52 ounces and flys on 60-foot .015 multi-strand lines, so your brass-coated 60-foot .016 would work for me.
The advertisement on Amazon (posted above) says the eyelets and crimping are installed by the buyer, but your comment above says the lines are sold ready-to-use with eyelets installed. Can you clarify which is correct? Of course I prefer ready-made ready-to-use.
I would like some less springy lines and yours sound like a good product.
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Hi Ruslan:
My competition model is 52 ounces and flys on 60-foot .015 multi-strand lines, so your brass-coated 60-foot .016 would work for me.
The advertisement on Amazon (posted above) says the eyelets and crimping are installed by the buyer, but your comment above says the lines are sold ready-to-use with eyelets installed. Can you clarify which is correct? Of course I prefer ready-made ready-to-use.
I would like some less springy lines and yours sound like a good product.
Hi Mike
All product descriptions were originally generalized, as on the back of the product packaging. Now my good friend American is editing them to make it very clear. All products which are a Ready to Use with installed eyelets and crimp copper tubes (very clearly seen in the amazon photo). The Control lines of control that need to be crimped most sold under the name Kit Set 70' (.015/.016/.018), there are no eyelets and copper crimping pipes and are inside the package (very clearly seen in the amazon photo)
I'm sorry that you did not understand, it's my fault. I apologize.
Regards
Ruslan Kurenkov
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I've ordered a set from Amazon to try. Most of my airplanes are typically under 60 oz.
Incidentally, the lines from "Amazon Prime" cost $21.50 shipped!
They are 70ft long but are not wrapped or prepped! That's Ok for me because I typically use lines that are different length than those prepared by any one anyway!
The idea that they are less springy is most attractive to me!
Randy Cuberly
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PM Me and I will send my address.
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Hi Ruslan: I went to your Controllineparts website and found the ready-to-use 60-foot brass-coated lines. I intend to order a set. I think your price is reasonable for something made in Ukraine by hand and delivered to the USA. This is actually pretty cheap for something so important!
You probably know we have a lot of Ukraine model flyers here in Northern California, mostly in free flight. Some aeronautical engineers have immigrated for jobs here, very knowledgeable people.
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I've ordered a set from Amazon to try. Most of my airplanes are typically under 60 oz.
Incidentally, the lines from "Amazon Prime" cost $21.50 shipped!
They are 70ft long but are not wrapped or prepped! That's Ok for me because I typically use lines that are different length than those prepared by any one anyway!
The idea that they are less springy is most attractive to me!
Randy Cuberly
Hi Randy
I, as promised, reduced the price of the Control Lines to Amazon.
Thank you for your order.
Regards
Ruslan
PM Me and I will send my address.
Hi Paul
I'm waiting for your address to send control lines for testing.
Regards
Ruslan / controllineparts@gmail.com
P.S ( I really like the flying models of American athletes. / STILETTO Les McDonald / GENESIS Bob Hunt / THUNDER GAZER David Fitzgerald / SPECIAL EDITION Ted Fancher / IMPACT Paul Walker.
5 years ago my dream came true. I was able to order an Ultra hobby product kit from the Impact Paul Walker from Brodak. I installed Discovery Retro 60 and got a lot of fun from flying and from touching the American F2B culture.
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Brass lines are produced at a large plant in Belarus (200 miles from Kiev)
(http://www.belarus-tractor.com/upload/resize_cache/iblock/01a/1316_393_101a9461d51526113595f057e89280f5a/main_slide_1.jpg)
MTZ Tractor Works in BALARUS is on the B.B.C. ( Amongst the pinko libral propaganda ) at the moment . H^^
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Hello,
Just recently I made some tests with various cables (see picture).
I tried to measure the stretch of the cables.
I used full length cables (19,8m Eye to Eye) and the test was made horizontally.
As you can see the blue line (Stainless steel 0.015" purchased from Loos Cable Co.) has the most stretch.
Green and purple, both 4 strand combat lines with 0.0165" diameter are significantly better.
The best cable tested was the PAW brand, labeled 0.015" but measured at 0.0165". But the difference is small.
The Ukraine cables would probably be very similar to the purple measurement.
I also fly the combat cables and the stainless cable. When compared directly the stiffer combat cable feels more direct.
But extreme care has to be taken when flying in humid conditions. The combat cables are prone to corrosion and need to be oiled after use. I can recommend silicone oil. If you don’t oil them (or buy old cable material) then you risk your model. The corrosion sits between the strands where you can’t see it. Very dangerous!
Regards
Frank Wadle
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Actually I wonder if the stainless steel cable would have a similar stiffness IF the diameter would also be 0.0165".
Yes I know, Stainless steel has a little less modulus when compares to carbon steel.
But the 7 strand design would result in a slightly higher surface (0.1078mm²) when compared to the 4 strand design (0.0951mm²).
So in theory a 7 strand stainless with 0.0165" diameter would be about equal in stretch to a 4 strand carbon steel of the same diameter.
The disadvantege would be the 13% higher weigth.
The advantage would be the the corrosion resistance.
Does anyone know a source of 0.0165" (0,42mm) 7 Strand stainless cable?
Regards
Frank
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Well you guys can play with other lines, but I will stay with the lines I get from MBS Model Supply. S?P
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(http://www.belarus-tractor.com/upload/resize_cache/iblock/01a/1316_393_101a9461d51526113595f057e89280f5a/main_slide_1.jpg)
MTZ Tractor Works in BALARUS is on the B.B.C. ( Amongst the pinko libral propaganda ) at the moment . H^^
Hello
Hi Matt.
Yes, the photo shows huge wheels that consist of steel cord and rubber. This is the metal cord I buy in Belarus at BMC(image). This is the most high-quality and the most durable metal cord for today, which pilots use the Combat of the whole world and European pilots Stunt models.
I'm very familiar with the rules of AMA and I know about the limitations on the diameter of the lines from the weight of the model.
I used a stainless steel cable of 0.018 in 50 flights for testing. This cable is very durable and qualitative but it creates more aerodynamic resistance which wraps the model in the inside of the circle and draws more towards the bottom for the inner wing due to the greater weight.
When there is no strong wind and very wet grass or very wet after rain, then I use a stainless rope 0.015. I like this rope more than 0.018.
World Champion Igor Burger orders for himself and for his team in our company from 10 to 20 sets of brass rope 0.016 diameters - every year. A lot of European pilots buy from us or from Sergii Solomianikov our brass rope.
This product has long been familiar to European and American athletes.
I will be very happy if our product that we recently presented in America will bring success and pleasure from the use of athletes from different countries.
Regards
Ruslan Kurenkov
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I was able to try these lines earlier than I expected.
Here is what I did:
I am flying my new P-47 and am in the early trimming stage. So far, only 0.018 in lines have been on it. Before going to the 4 strand lines, I put last years lines and handle on it. It was a set of 0.015 in lines.
Wow is an understatement! It was a totally different plane. It felt like last years plane, which should have been no surprise. The plane was better off aerodynamically, but I could not take the stretch.
On went the 4 strand lines. Very interesting. There was clearly less stretch than the 0.015's, but close to the 0.018 7 strands in twrms of stretch, and direct feel. However, it performed aerodynamically almost equivalent to the 0.015's. Interesting thing was the plane wanted MORE tip weight than with the 0.018's. Not sure I know why.
I have since gone out again and flown some more and am convinced they are the way to go. I am going to have to buy sone more.
Now, there is a small issue with using them here in the US. The AMA rules have a minimum line diameter based on model weight. To use these lines, your plane needs to weigh less than 64 ounces. Unfortunately those are the rules, and it would take some time to get it changed, if a rule proposl is submitted, and approved. That is easier said than done.
So, if you have a plane less than 64 ounces, I highly recommend them!
If you fly FAI, this is no issue. Wink, wink, Chris Rudd!
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Hey Paul,
How about posting a picture of your new P-47 for all us stay at home fliers that never get anywhere to see the "Good
Stuff!
Thanks,
Randy Cuberly
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Wow is an understatement! It was a totally different plane. It felt like last years plane, which should have been no surprise. The plane was better off aerodynamically, but I could not take the stretch.
First time I switched back, I had about 6" bottoms on my wingovers (at a DEMO, which was a real crowd pleaser), because I didn't lead the airplane nearly enough.
On went the 4 strand lines. Very interesting. There was clearly less stretch than the 0.015's, but close to the 0.018 7 strands in twrms of stretch, and direct feel. However, it performed aerodynamically almost equivalent to the 0.015's.
That's also consistent with my experience with the similar Yatsenko lines, and with Laystrates (both undersize but about the same diameter). I can't say I added noseweight but I would never have considered that, anyway. Very positive feel. Part of the issue is that the aerodynamic "sag" is less so they are straighter to begin with, meaning they are ahead of the game even if the linear "K" is less than real .018s. If I was under 64 (not now, maybe later...) I would certainly give them a try. They are MUCH superior to .015 stainless even if the are oversize, at least on full-size airplanes.
As far as the rules go, I tried tilting at that windmill and ran into a brick wall, some mysterious process happens via legal review that we don't know about and don't have any input to, outside the CB, and that can torpedo everything. Maybe it would be different now, and Steve Y. seems fired up to try again, so maybe.
Brett
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Hi Ruslan:
Do you have your own website where your lines can be ordered, or must we use the Amazon link posted by Lyle in his original post above?
Will the 60 foot length brass-coated lines be available soon? The Amazon site says they are not now available.
Thanks,
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Switching from 19 strand 0.015 stainless steel, I flew 0.015 x 64 ft Yatsenko lines on my 64.8 oz. C.29 most of the time last year and I will not switch back. Intending to use similar (same?) lines on my new 62.4 oz. "My Way" I now have a set of 64.5 x 0.015 Ruslan lines being shipped to me. For airplane specs check "List your setup"
What remains to be considered is Frank Wadles and Lauri Malilas concern about, possibly hardly visible, corrosion between strands. Could substances such as WD 40, gun oil spray (Ballistol), or electric contact cleaning spray, be used as cleansing & protecting agent?
Peter G.
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Lauri, I almost lost an an airplane two years ago because of hidden corrosion between the strands. 2 out of 4 strands broke in flight. Let me tell you, that's *ping* *ping* you hear is very frightening!!!
Last year I was also testing the combat cable with a silver coating, possibility NI. They are good and are definitely not so prone to corrosion. But I felt they have a little bit more friction.
I will now use the brass coated 4 strand material for this season. And I'll use silicon oil as I believe it is the best choice.
Yesterday I made a direct comparison (0.015" 7strand stainless vs. the 4strand 0.0165") and I have to say it is a big improvement.
Regards
Frank
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If my airplane comes out less than 64oz like it’s projected to, I will purchase a couple sets of these lines to try on my new plane.
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There seems to be 2 different types of the 4 strand cables (see pic below) type #1 is wind like the typical 7 strand .015/.018, and type #2 is wind more like the Staystrate without the solder. So far I have tested the type 2 with very good results. :)
(https://s18.postimg.org/v7like3l5/20180401_100525.jpg)
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I was able to try these lines earlier than I expected.
Hi Paul.
I am very glad that you could test brass control lines so quickly. Thank you very much for your positive feedback.
Regards. Ruslan Kurenkov
Hi Ruslan:
Do you have your own website where your lines can be ordered, or must we use the Amazon link posted by Lyle in his original post above?
Will the 60 foot length brass-coated lines be available soon? The Amazon site says they are not now available.
Thanks.
Hello, Mike.
I have a website where you can order control lines of any length and any diameter with free delivery to any country in the world for 14 days by airmail. The price of any set for international free shipping will be $ 30. The site will be active in 5-7 days. (now the site is actively filled with new products and photos). If you do not have the opportunity to pay for the goods on Amazon, then write me a message with the address of delivery and I will send you an e-mail to the invoice for payment.
The goods on Amazon very quickly was sold out. Now the new party is taking inventory and customs clearance. Every day, a new batch of goods appears in the access to the purchase. I'm very sorry, but the product was provided to Amazon in small quantities. After the American buyer has positively accepted my product, I will definitely supply new control lines.
Regards. Ruslan Kurenkov
Ruslan,
At some point I saw F2D lines with Ni coating instead of brass, from Stanislav Chorny if I remember right. Maybe Nickel would be a better option..?
Lauri
Hello Lauri
I called Stanislav Chоrny and asked for a nickel-plated cable. Received the answer that this is the control line 0.35mm for Racing. Lines production of Italy.
Regards. Ruslan.
Last year I was also testing the combat cable with a silver coating, possibility NI. They are good and are definitely not so prone to corrosion. But I felt they have a little bit more friction.
I will now use the brass coated 4 strand material for this season. And I'll use silicon oil as I believe it is the best choice.
Regards
Frank
Hello Frank.
I'm very glad to hear from you.
I want to post my answer which I sent to the Australian athlete F2B from Brisbon. I do not recommend the use of oil or silicone for processing lines. And I strongly do not recommend using such products as VD-40 (it contains orthophosphoric acid)
(I already sent 5 sets of my lines to Australia for the same price as to Amazon and 63'3".
Delivery is free for 14 days.)
Here is the complete information on the operation of brass control lines from the manufacturer.
"Hi.
I am very glad that you are interested in my product.
I am always very glad to communicate with the sportsmen of my favorite sport.
Now I produce brass steel control lines with a diameter of 0.0145 (0.366mm) diameter.
When using control lines after rain or on wet grass, before each flight and after training, the lines must be carefully wiped (!!!) with a cotton cloth moistened with gasoline for lighters or anti-silicone with the smell of gasoline. The control lines must be as clean and fat-free as possible. A water-repellent lubricant based on oil or silicone leads to the sticking of the lines between each other and to more difficult handling with jamming. So that the lines do not rust they can not be soldered (!!!). The solder contains hydrochloric or orthophosphoric acid which, when interacted with the moisture of the air, leads to severe corrosion and rupture of the lines. During operation, brass control lines necessarily change the color from golden to dark gray, darken with time. This results from the oxidation of brass from the oxygen of the air, roofs of houses. On the strength of the lines, this color change has no effect. For the last 5 years I have made 2000 training flights on F2B models. From 2000 flights I made 400 on the lines 0.015 (7 strands, 0.38mm, stainless steel), 100 flights on the 0.45mm (0.018, 7 strands, stainless) and 1500 flights on the brass lines 0.36mm (0.0145). For 400 flights over the asphalt surface, all these lines are completely out of order. There are bends, creases, hooks (defects in operation on asphalt). All athletes I know use lines only for one season (only for one year). Over the season, I change lines every 200 flights (two sets in one year) to ensure maximum controllability and safety. When using stainless lines 0.015 (0.38mm), I replaced them with new ones every 200 flights because after 200-250 flights on models weighing 1800gr. with a motor of 0.76 and in a strong wind one of the 7 strands always collapsed. I, as an athlete, treat lines as an expendable material that needs to be constantly changed to provide maximum comfort, like krosovki for runners for long distances.
Keep lines after training only in a dry, ventilated area.
Do not store lines in a plastic bag !!!
Do not store lines in a closed start box without access to dry air.
Before prolonged storage, be sure to unwind and wipe with a dry cotton cloth moistened with gasoline for lighters.
I specially tested all my lines on which I made 150-250 flights 5 years ago. After five years of storage in a dry place, in a cardboard ventilated drawer, none of my lines were destroyed by a tension of 13.5 kg (30 pounds) per line.
Before each workout, the lines must be tested with a force equal to 10x of the model.
And most importantly - before each flight it is necessary to carefully inspect the line fastenings, 95% of all defects are manifested in the places where the lines are fastened. It was during these inspections that I discovered 3 times the rupture of one of the 7 or 4 strands before departure.
All excellent flights!
Regards.
Ruslan Kurenkov.
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If my airplane comes out less than 64oz like it’s projected to, I will purchase a couple sets of these lines to try on my new plane.
It's certainly worth considering, but be a bit careful if you are close. One of the flaws with the system is that you can be under the 64 but people are using fish scales and post office scales that have substantial tolerance, and they measure you to be 64-65 even if you are really 62.5. Then you have to scramble to change lines, maybe at the last minute. If it's above 62, I would get real nervous with using the .016... lines.
Brett
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About oiling the lines, there is 2 sides; oily lines attract even more dirt, and together with oil it forms a grinding paste that makes lines wear even faster. But it's a good idea to wipe lines with an oily rag after use, and then wipe several times with a clean paper & solvent before use.
I would not use WD40 or similar products because I know from experience that it seems to oxydize/harden after some time.
I use turbine oil (Shell ASTO 500), it stays liquid for hundreds of years. But it has tendency to make plastic reels brittle, so you have to be carefull with that. I have plenty of ASTO 500, you can have it if you want.
I have tried silicone oil as Frank mentioned but in my opinion it has so dramatic effect to friction that you'd better use it all the time. And you know how silicone is, it tends to contaminate everything where you touch, that's especially pain a** if you like to paint your models nicely.
I would suggest that the petroleum-based turbine oil, air tool oil, or synthetic motor oil would be a good choice. WD-40, maybe, if they get wet, but you still need to put some actual oil on them later. The same issue plagues music-wire solids, too, and dried up WD-40 definitely doesn't protect them if they get wet. I agree about the silicone, it's a big mess to have around, and it doesn't have the same protective qualities as real oil. My Yatsenko lines, Laystrates, and a reel of Mike Scott music wire solids are the only steel parts in my tool box that DIDN'T rust after I sat out in the rain at the 2006 NATs for an hour, all well-treated a year or so earlier with Mobil 1 0-40 synthetic.
It doesn't matter what you do with them for storage, you clean them off dead clean and before flight anyway, then oil them again when you put them up.
Brett
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Does anyone have any opinions on how these lines compare to solids? I like solids, but they are troublesome when wet. Are these lines any better than solids in this respect?
Rick
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No offence intended, but if you "like" solids, you just haven't used them enough. They WILL let you down at a critical time sooner or later.
Ask David F. about his "experience" at the 2003 team trials. They cost him a team spot for the 2004 WC's. He hasn't used them since.
I have used them in the past, and understand why peopke like them. I have not tried these 4 strand lines in the rain yet. Short of that they feel close to solid lines.
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Thanks Paul,
You're right, I haven't used solids all that long. If the 4 strands work better in the rain, they're something I'd like to try. Was David's "experience" related to rain/wet lines?
Rick
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Thanks Paul,
You're right, I haven't used solids all that long. If the 4 strands work better in the rain, they're something I'd like to try. Was David's "experience" related to rain/wet lines?
Yes. I was the handle caddy on those flight, and the less said about it the better, really. It was raining, he tried once with the SS solids, and then had to swap to .018s in the middle of the round.
If you are currently using solids, I would strongly urge you to switch. And, I found that with a hard-point handle, the performance and feel difference between .014 SS solids and .018 7-strand stranded is not terribly significant, if you have time to retrim for them. 0.014 music wire (via Mike Scott) are slightly better than the SS solids, and have less tendency to stick like they were glued, but still have a very heavy/draggy feel with *any* liquid of any type on them.
Before someone asks or tells me, I have tried every magic concoction for keeping the lines from sticking that anyone has come up with (unless there is a NEW secret concoction). The only thing that worked, even briefly, was teflon spray, which goes on and leaves a hard white finish. It works really great for about 1/2 a flight, until it wears away, then it goes right back to dragging or locking up. Anything like oil, forget it, including the magic silicone spray that Ed Southwick gave me. Other solid lube (like graphite), also no good, it just falls off.
Interestingly, *lead* makes a decent high-pressure lubricant, so if you were to tin the lines with solder, then you might have a chance- but then you can buy the soldered stranded lines as being discussed! I didn't try my Laystrates in the rain (no too many opportunities around here...) but PTG says they work fine.
Brett
p. s. since I know stunt fliers...
https://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Teflon-Non-Stick-Dry-Film-Lubricant/dp/B018FTA5WA
BTW, Slick 50 or similar DOESN'T work, or at least not when I tried it. Nothing like oil can be left on the lines, they might not stick hard/weld themselves together, but the drag will be unacceptable.
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I have never tried solids, an I never will.
But back when the F2C guys were still flying solids I know they used Windex on them when it rained. Yes, the stuff you put on your windscreen. And supposedly that helped with the "sticking" issue in the rain.
Regards
Frank Wadle
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I have never tried solids, an I never will.
But back when the F2C guys were still flying solids I know they used Windex on them when it rained.
Do really mean Windex or is RainX the product you had in mind?
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Uuhhh... I'm totally sorry.
It is of course RainX
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I have never tried solids, an I never will.
But back when the F2C guys were still flying solids I know they used Windex Rain-X on them when it rained. Yes, the stuff you put on your windscreen. And supposedly that helped with the "sticking" issue in the rain.
Tried it, dragged everything up (although it didn't stick hard in my limited testing).
Great for windshields, however, particularly for night driving. I tried leaving my windshield untreated when I got my last new car, and I can't believe how bad it is with bare glass.
Brett
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What about :Profi control line cable wire steel .016" х 60 ft (18.3m) 2 sets .One set of characteristics:
On both sides soldered ring fastening.
Material - steel spring coated (no rust)
Length - 60 ft (18.3 m)
Diameter - .016" (0,45 mm)
3 threads
Pitch of 5,2 mm
Breaking strength 280N
On e-bay?????
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Frank, did you measure elasticity of two lines in parallel? Your PAW elasticity numbers are half what I measured for one line.
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No. Just one line was measured.
I repeated the measurement a few times to make sure I'm not messing things up. I used a digital scale for the force (kilograms) and a simple ruler for the stretch.
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I made some errors in converting your measurements. Our results for PAW (Staystrate) and F2D lines are pretty close now that I corrected my calculation:
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Hi Peter,
I have plenty of ASTO 500, you can have it if you want.
Thanks for the offer Lauri. If you come to Schwalbennest regionals on Sunday April 29, please carry a little for me
rgds Peter
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I've used these brass coated 4 strand lines since 2012 and will not go back to anything else........until something better comes along! They fly well in the rain and feel as good (when it comes to stretch) as very clean solids and Staytrate lines. I know that some of the top pilots use a small amount of Rain-X on the front edge of a paper towel and then have a larger piece dry to wipe excess Rain-X off again as they clean the lines. Maybe Igor will add what he does because he uses these lines.
My step-son Conrad built a Cardinal some years ago with a ST 51 in it that weighed around 67 oz. with fuel in it. We made a set of 0.018" cables for it and it flew o.k. but I battled to get a good trim with the line drag. Even watching it bow like that just did not feel right to me. I tested it on 0.014 solids and it was a lot nicer to fly and easier to trim but Conrad stuck to the 0.018 cables because they were much easier to keep in good condition. I then went to Staystrate lines and used that for competition for a few years until I got the brass-coated 4 strand lines. My electric model called Newtron 2 weighs 66 oz. and I don't feel any stretch problems and the lines don't stick easily. I usually give them a wipe with Acetone and if I do fly in wetter weather I use Rain-X. Our climate here in Johannesburg South Africa is mostly dry.
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What about :Profi control line cable wire steel .016" х 60 ft (18.3m) 2 sets .One set of characteristics:
On both sides soldered ring fastening.
Material - steel spring coated (no rust)
Length - 60 ft (18.3 m)
Diameter - .016" (0,45 mm)
3 threads
Pitch of 5,2 mm
Breaking strength 280N
On e-bay?????
I'll let you know - I ordered a couple of sets at the weekend. For the price it was worth a punt! Of course I may just stack the new built Nobler after 1/2 a lap - who knows!
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I'll let you know - I ordered a couple of sets at the weekend. For the price it was worth a punt! Of course I may just stack the new built Nobler after 1/2 a lap - who knows!
[/quote]
Hello.
I know this seller very well.
These control lines are delivered to Ebay too from Ukraine.
This is a very good and high-quality cable that is sealed at the ends.
The diameter is slightly incorrect. The real diameter of these lines is 0.40-0.42mm. I tested these lines many times and used them throughout the 2015 season for training. These lines are slightly weaker when testing for a break. These lines of the Russian production (Magnitogorsk) during testing (at least 10 tests) were destroyed at a load of 22-24 kg (48-50 lb). The lines that I use (the Belarusian production of Zhlobin, see image at the bottom of the list) were destroyed during testing (at least 10 tests) for a break at a load of 28-30kg (60-65lb) per line! (not two). In the production of their lines, before sending, I can test them only with a load of 50lb (24 kg) per line (no more). With a greater load, the eyelets on the ends of the lines begin to deform. They are made of a round form into an oval (not a commercial kind). But at the same time ready-to-use lines in the places of the eyelet fastenings and in the places of the crimping copper tubes are not destroyed.
Regards.
Ruslan Kurenkov
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Ruslan, do you have a way we can buy 2 x 70' x .016" with no ends? Thanks,
Motorman 8)
Hello Motorman
On Amazon, I supplied a trial (experimental) batch of 20 different control lines. In each version there were only 10 units of goods. The lines of 0.016x2x70' were all sold during the week. Now in stock in America there are only kits of 0.0145x2x70' (10 pieces), delivery time is 3-5 days in America.
A new lot of lines 0.016х2х70' will arrive at the Amazon warehouse only in 2 weeks.
Kits 0.016 and 0.0145 differ only in diameter, they have the same strengths (60-65 lb).
Personally, I use lines with a diameter of 0.0145 (0.366mm) for an airplane (photo) weighing 1800 grams (64 oz) with a .76 Stalker.
I very much apologize to all athletes who could not purchase kits because of their lack of stock.
Regards
Ruslan Kurenkov
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Hello.
Today a set of control lines 0.016х2х70 (20pcs) was delivered to Amazon (USA). All 20 sets were produced, tested and packed by me for dispatch by airmail DHL exactly 2 weeks ago. The exact diameter of the lines is 0.415mm (0.016). Each of the two brass-coated steel lines was tested with a force of 18 kg (40 lb) before winding onto the plastic coil. Effort at which the line is completely destroyed - 28-30 kg (61-66lb). The lines are very even, length 21.5m (70ft), the highest quality. Delivery in America is free for 5 days. International air delivery of control lines from Kiev, Ukraine - at least 14 (working) days.
I wish you all a wonderful flight.
Regards
Ruslan Kurenkov / https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077XQ6985
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I know that some of the top pilots use a small amount of Rain-X on the front edge of a paper towel and then have a larger piece dry to wipe excess Rain-X off again as they clean the lines. Maybe Igor will add what he does because he uses these lines.
Well, I do not use those lines as was stated, and I am also not World champion, Orestes is, but at least I am holder of World cup, not Sergey ;D , so I think I can comment because I use similar (very similar, but this is private forum, so I am not going to make adverts here) but Ruslan is right, several friends here around use them.
Difference between stainless cables and this steel is much higher strength and much lower stretch. So it is very good choice if you want keep in touch with model. It is like one size larger stainless cables, but with clear disadvantage of higher weight. There is little problem with 4 strand cables regarding AMA rules, since wires does not fit to nice 7 strand organization. The diameter can change regarding applied force, so it can give another diameter measured gently with Vernier caliper and different if pressed with micrometric screw. I remember similar problems with combats. So it is necessary remember when thinking about proper diameter.
Lines are plated, but it does not mean they cannot rust, it is necessary to clean them in case of flying in water (rain, wet grass etc). Keith is right, we use Rain-x (or any other liquid wipers) for cleaning. I simply put few drops on small piece of paper towel and I clean them normally. They will stay clean many flights on electric, but if used on IC, it needs cleaning from oil more often the same way.
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I ordered a set of 60 foot .0165 ready-made lines from the link in Ruslan's 4-25-18 post above, got them today. If weather flyable will put a few flights on them tomorrow and report back.
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In post by Igor mention is made of lines being plated. I assume he means chrome plating similar to that applied to cylinder liner wall and not the type used for decorative purpose ( automobile trim).Usual chrome plating is applied in chemical bath only few thousandths thick. I would be concerned about the risk that there could be localized condition where plating is too thin or missing due to variations in plating process. Also, wiping down could have added risk due to abrasion from wiping with a papertowl that is too abrasive.
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Brass , i think youll find .
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All good day and good mood.
I want to inform the members of the forum who were interested in me with brass lines 0.016x2x70', that today Amazon opened the beginning of sales and control lines that were active on the 25th.
Also in the warehouse in New York now there are available lines 0.0145x2x70' ready to be shipped with 3-5 days delivery.
Who wants to test brass lines and write their test scores here, write me a message and I'll send you the lines for free.
For athletes who ordered lines of a certain length for me, I made them to order lines 63.3' (Australia) 62' and 63' (USA) 59' (Europe), while the price for free-of-charge lines was no more than $ 30.
Almost all orders (9 out of 10) apply only to brass lines.
Stainless steel lines also have very high quality, very high flight characteristics, and also tested the brass lines before packing and shipping. For these lines, I can provide a good discount for increasing sales and freeing the warehouse. Write. I will be glad to communicate with you.
I wish all good flights.
Ruslan
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Hi Ruslan I did get my lines I ordered, they really look and feel good, and looks like there should be no problems with AMA size rules
I will let you know when I get time flying them, Thanks for the product
Regards
Randy Smith
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Theyre learning all about Capitalism There !
while the price for free-of-charge lines was no more than $ 30.
I think He must work for the Govt., or a advertising Agency . LL~ LL~
Just Stirring , Ruslan . The wording in English . = Buy a Dozen & SAVE Twelve Times as much ! ;D :-X
H^^
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Not sure why anyone used Rainx as a cleaner..
The issue is; the oil residue in the air from flying and other airbornd contaminents. Bugs.. etc.
Rainx is not a hard cleaner. I tested lots of different products ( close to 50!) And found over the counter carburettor cleaner to work the best. Cleans and leaves zero residue.
Id like to try these lines.
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The brown oooze that comes up from the L pad in Muncie is hard to get off the lines, I found only acetone would clean it off, and I tried many things. It is much better now that they have paved over it again
Randy
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I have just received a sample of Italian made lines.
4strand
Steel with a silver coating (looks like stainless but its actually steel)
0.019" measured diameter
Should be much superior to the 0.018" stainless stuff.
If anyone is interested then simply drop me an E-mail
frank_wadle(at)yahoo.de
Regards from Germany
Frank Wadle
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Hi Ruslan I did get my lines I ordered, they really look and feel good, and looks like there should be no problems with AMA size rules
I will let you know when I get time flying them, Thanks for the product
Regards
Randy Smith
Hi Randy
I'm very glad that you got my brass control lines so quickly.
We'll all be waiting for your feedback.
If the length of the lines is not enough for you, then from yesterday you can purchase a set of control lines 70 feet in length on the Amazon whale and set your own length size. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077XQ6985?th=1
Regards
Ruslan Kurenkov
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The brown oooze that comes up from the L pad in Muncie is hard to get off the lines, I found only acetone would clean it off, and I tried many things. It is much better now that they have paved over it again
The very first surface that looked like a tennis court was awful for that. Lacquer thinner or acetone, and a lot of it. Alcohol-based cleaners (like the base of Rain-X) wouldn't touch it.
I really liked the light gray, it made it very easy to see. I don't care for the black surface for the visibility, but at least it doesn't ooze out asphalt or leave marks from lawn chairs like the original surface.
Brett
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Hi Rusian :
I'm not a world class stunt flier or even a National class one for that matter, but I've been told that I build nice ships and like most, I want to keep them that way. So (like all here) any changes I make to line usage are approached with an abundance of caution. It has helped to read other's testimonials , for sure.
I prefer to wrap ends rather than crimp- would that cause a problem ? Have you conducted pull test experiments with wrapped ends ? I would be cutting them down to 65' eyelet to eyelet.
I'm presently flying a 64 ounce model on 7 strand .015s. The lines feel stretchy in the wind. I have a set of .014 solids that feel great, but I often fly alone on early mornings with heavy dew on the grass. Of course, that's a no-no with solids and handling them by myself is an exercise in extreme caution so as to not allow them to become a Slinky toy. Therefore, they sit in my box.
The discoloration from dew won't bother me, but the wrapped copper wire ends will likely more quickly discolor as well from migration (plus dew and handling).
I'm not sure whether or not the soft, pliable wire we use to wrap more quickly weaken as a result.
Of note, your 70' lines using Amazon Prime are now $26.99, not $21.99 (USA)
Your comments appreciated.
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I prefer to wrap ends rather than crimp- would that cause a problem ? Have you conducted pull test experiments with wrapped ends ? I would be cutting them down to 65' eyelet to eyelet.
Hi Frank.
Here in Italy and in the rest of Europe many fliers use these lines (or similar ones) by wrapping the ends with copper wire.
I never heard that this was a problem, it just takes a little more time to do the job.
Good flights, Massimo
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Wrapping with copper wire as per AMA suggestion is no problem. That is what I do ever since I started CL Flying 20 years ago.
It is the best way of making lines in my eyes, no matter what material the cables are.
I wonder if someone in the USA is willing to test the 0.019" 4strand steel cables that I can offer for those with planes heavier than 64Oz.
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Hi Rusian :
I'm not a world class stunt flier or even a National class one for that matter, but I've been told that I build nice ships and like most, I want to keep them that way. So (like all here) any changes I make to line usage are approached with an abundance of caution. It has helped to read other's testimonials , for sure.
I prefer to wrap ends rather than crimp- would that cause a problem ? Have you conducted pull test experiments with wrapped ends ? I would be cutting them down to 65' eyelet to eyelet.
I'm presently flying a 64 ounce model on 7 strand .015s. The lines feel stretchy in the wind. I have a set of .014 solids that feel great, but I often fly alone on early mornings with heavy dew on the grass. Of course, that's a no-no with solids and handling them by myself is an exercise in extreme caution so as to not allow them to become a Slinky toy. Therefore, they sit in my box.
The discoloration from dew won't bother me, but the wrapped copper wire ends will likely more quickly discolor as well from migration (plus dew and handling).
I'm not sure whether or not the soft, pliable wire we use to wrap more quickly weaken as a result.
Of note, your 70' lines using Amazon Prime are now $26.99, not $21.99 (USA)
Your comments appreciated.
Hi Frank
I am very glad that one month ago I had the opportunity to communicate on this forum with athletes like you.
I like to communicate with all sportsmen without exception who love our sport and respect the opinion of the interlocutor. The most important thing in our sport is communication.
Now about the control line.
If you use copper wires at the ends of the lines instead of crimp pipes, this is very good. The most important thing is to use the method of closing the ends that you like best and which you know how to do well. I also used this method of closing lines as you did before. But two years ago I decided to try and test the method of sealing using a copper tube. I was taught this method by my American friend.
After that I use only crimp copper tubes. This method for me was more convenient, fast, and very reliable.
The price of my control lines is now reduced to $ 25 for Amazon. This is my lowest price, taking into account the payment of all taxes and free shipping. Amazon provides a service to Prime not always and probably not for everyone. Very much depends on your account of the buyer.
Write me your address and I'll send you one set of 0.0145x2x70. After flights and comparison with the lines of 0.015 write your review.
You can set the length of the lines themselves and fix the ends of the lines with copper wire instead of copper tubes. I tested the lines for maximum force with copper wire and copper tubes. No difference. Both methods are good.
Regards
Ruslan Kurenkov
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Hi Rusian :
Of note, your 70' lines using Amazon Prime are now $26.99, not $21.99 (USA)
Your comments appreciated.
[/quote]
Hello Frank
Today on Amazon Prime day.
All control lines are sold as Prime.
Each individual buyer has its own discount.
Regards
Ruslan
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Hi Ruslan : Received the 4 strand .016 brass/stainless lines (thank you) and have put exactly one flight on them ( when almost sundown).The weather on the East coast (USA) has been windy and rainy. My first impression is that you have a quality product. I plan to do some back to back comparisons between 7-strand braided and your product. I also have solids(.014) to compare. Will do a review on Amazon afterwards.
I wiped them down with "Goof- Off " which conveniently comes in a lighter fluid size can and is probably as strong as Acetone.
Before reeling them up, I applied "Stared Machine Oil" which is a very high quality fine (measurement) instrument oil. I'm storing the lines in a sealed plastic bag in the driest (least humid).
I'll be certain to wipe the oil off prior to first flight of each session.
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I've read this thread and reread it....
It puzzles me why the Communists didn't read the AMA rules if the AMA is their target market? Surely they are capable of making wire that will meet the AMA wire size guides? Do we need to change rules to accommodate a manufacturer that doesn't wish to comply with them?
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Does not the AMA rules have a plus or minus tolerance ? I remember something about 10% , the lines I have measure .017
Randy
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Does not the AMA rules have a plus or minus tolerance ? I remember something about 10% , the lines I have measure .017
Randy
Well...only from memory, but I believe it says Minimum Diameter! That would mean any tolerance would make the lines larger in diameter!
Randy Cuberly
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I've read this thread and reread it....
It puzzles me why the Communists didn't read the AMA rules if the AMA is their target market? Surely they are capable of making wire that will meet the AMA wire size guides? Do we need to change rules to accommodate a manufacturer that doesn't wish to comply with them?
NO, we don't change it for them but we do need to change that rule. Pull test only. You should be able to fly on kite string if i will pass a strong pull test with say 5 sec. hold at maximum pull.
FYI - Neither Russia or Ukraine are communist.
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I've read this thread and reread it....
It puzzles me why the Communists didn't read the AMA rules if the AMA is their target market? Surely they are capable of making wire that will meet the AMA wire size guides? Do we need to change rules to accommodate a manufacturer that doesn't wish to comply with them?
Really Peabody??? Where have you been for the past 20 years or so!
The proposed rules change is only to please us the US fliers. The fact that it will simply make more sense to only have a pull test is the big issue! Besides, some testing I did on lines of different manufacture about 20 years ago showed serious deficiencies in breaking strength. So serious that I decided not to publish the results to keep from opening a can of worms! Besides, in my opinion the facts from flying in the field supported the fact that the required line sizes were less than desirable anyway.
Also having minimum line sizes and a pull test is pretty much a waste of time. The pull test is the definitive test of whether or not the lines will fail! I'm sure that Europeans both Eastern and Western are a bit ahead of us "US" in this issue.
Also your statement seems a bit Communist! Or is it Faschist! I get confused since they both seem about the same in the end! I believe the Ukraine is definitely a Democracy!
Uhhh... where did you go to school? Done any reading lately? Hmmmm...I thought not!
Randy Cuberly
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My belief is that if the Academy allows "pull test only", it would open itself to yuge lawsuits should an injury occur while a flier was using smaller lines than previously allowed....regression generally opens that avenue.
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Hi Ruslan :
Just re-read your storage recommendations. Out with the plastic baggie and in with a small cardboard box ! ( all stored in my wooden office desk).
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Hi Ruslan : Received the 4 strand .016 brass/stainless lines (thank you) and have put exactly one flight on them ( when almost sundown).The weather on the East coast (USA) has been windy and rainy. My first impression is that you have a quality product. I plan to do some back to back comparisons between 7-strand braided and your product. I also have solids(.014) to compare. Will do a review on Amazon afterwards.
I wiped them down with "Goof- Off " which conveniently comes in a lighter fluid size can and is probably as strong as Acetone.
Before reeling them up, I applied "Stared Machine Oil" which is a very high quality fine (measurement) instrument oil. I'm storing the lines in a sealed plastic bag in the driest (least humid).
I'll be certain to wipe the oil off prior to first flight of each session.
Hello Frank
Thank you for your feedback.
I will be very grateful if you leave your feedback on Amazon.
I will wait for your new flights and new information about the product.
Be sure before each first flight, wipe your lines from the remains of engine oil with a piece of cotton cloth moistened in gasoline for lighters (or Acetone).
Keep brass lines in a dry place. Do not use a plastic bag for storage. The moisture that could remain inside the lines should completely evaporate. In a plastic bag, moisture does not evaporate, and with a sudden change in ambient temperature, condensation may form which will result in corrosion.
I wish you good flights.
Regards,Ruslan
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My belief is that if the Academy allows "pull test only", it would open itself to yuge lawsuits should an injury occur while a flier was using smaller lines than previously allowed....regression generally opens that avenue.
Well, I happen to believe in the "Rule of law" not the Rule of Lawyers!. In fact it's really time to do something about the "Stinking Lawyers"!
The only regression here is in the mental attitude of people who think we have to control everything just to keep from getting sued! That means people like you Peabody. Oh yeah, are you a lawyer? No, then for heavens sake Shut up!
Randy Cuberly
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Does not the AMA rules have a plus or minus tolerance ? I remember something about 10% , the lines I have measure .017
Randy
from general cl section ....
Measuring instruments for checking line diameter shall be capable of
measuring to .0001". These measurements shall be rounded off to the
nearest thousandth (.001) as follows: .0001" to .0004" shall be dropped,
and .0005" to .0009" shall be rounded up to the next highest thousandth
(.001).
....so for 0.018 lines can go down to 0.0175 and be legal ....
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Hello!
I read very carefully the latest messages in the topic and I want to say something.
There are a lot of sportsmen in this forum both from the USA and from different countries and different continents.
Competitions in Europe and Australia are conducted according to the rules of the FAI.
Competitions in the US are conducted according to the rules of the AMA.
I have great respect for both rules and strictly observe them.
Each athlete decides for himself how and on what technique he should act in accordance with the requirements of the organizer of the competitions and rules.
One athlete has a light aircraft and can afford to use smaller lines. Another sportsman can have an airplane that exceeds 64 ounces. There are so many different options.
I think you can not just blame anyone for using brass lines without taking into account the weight of the aircraft and not knowing in which country this pilot is flying.
And also you can not humiliate a person calling him an atheist without asking him whether he believes in God or not.
I would like to ask the forum participants to be more polite to each other and treat each other with respect.
I wish all excellent flights.
Yours faithfully
Ruslan
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Hi All
I now have got many sets of these lines from Ruslan, They are Excellent Products, the lines are strong and feel very nice when flying, LOW stretch , and less drag than the 018s I use, Similar feel to the NON stainless solid lines I use, only much better and NO sticking. I also have other flyers using these Like Bill Rich , and Frank McMillan, they lke them a lot too.
I can use these on my 60 sized ships with no problem since they are .0165 and mic .017, and my plane is under 64 ounces, Others may not, But they are a really great product for big ships, and anything under 64 that your using solids or 018.
Now about the tinner lines, They are very much the same and works just as well as the .0165s
The only caution I would tell you is to treat the similar to solids , clean them, I store them in a white sport sock and take care NOT to bend the lines back n forth at the ends where they terminate.
All in all a Great Product !
Regards
Randy
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Hi Ruslan :
After a dozen or so flights , I'm satisfied enough
to order a second set from Amazon. They feel great.
Good Luck and thank you for a very fine product.
Frank
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I ordered a set of .0145 from Amazon but they sent .0165. Happens allot with Amazon so I am not shocked. My question is are these lines heavier than Sullivan .015 lines? If they are lighter or the same I will use them even though they are thicker. I am impressed with how they look.
Ken
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I ordered a set of .0145 from Amazon but they sent .0165. Happens allot with Amazon so I am not shocked. My question is are these lines heavier than Sullivan .015 lines? If they are lighter or the same I will use them even though they are thicker. I am impressed with how they look.
Ken
Hi Ken
I am grateful to you for your interest in my brass lines.
I'm very sorry that this happened.
Amazon sometimes makes mistakes when sending goods.
In the Amazon stock there are only 0.0165 lines.
I sell 0.0145 lines through Amazon, but not from the Amazon warehouse and from my warehouse in Staten Island (New York), Boston, or from Ukraine. Delivery time in America is from 7 days to 14 days.
Please tell me in your personal message your home address and I will send you tomorrow the lines 0.0145х2х70 from Boston. Delivery time 3 - 5 days.
Lines from Sullivan 0.015, like my 0.015 lines have a diameter of 0.38mm, brass lines 0.0165 have a diameter of 0.415mm - it's 0.035 mm larger. The weight of the lines is approximately the same. In the flight, 0.0165 lines are less stretched. They are more rigid. The command from your hand is quickly transferred to your aircraft.
I wish you good flights.
Regards,Ruslan
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Hi Ken
I am grateful to you for your interest in my brass lines.
I'm very sorry that this happened.
Amazon sometimes makes mistakes when sending goods.
In the Amazon stock there are only 0.0165 lines.
I sell 0.0145 lines through Amazon, but not from the Amazon warehouse and from my warehouse in Staten Island (New York), Boston, or from Ukraine. Delivery time in America is from 7 days to 14 days.
Please tell me in your personal message your home address and I will send you tomorrow the lines 0.0145х2х70 from Boston. Delivery time 3 - 5 days.
Lines from Sullivan 0.015, like my 0.015 lines have a diameter of 0.38mm, brass lines 0.0165 have a diameter of 0.415mm - it's 0.035 mm larger. The weight of the lines is approximately the same. In the flight, 0.0165 lines are less stretched. They are more rigid. The command from your hand is quickly transferred to your aircraft.
I wish you good flights.
Regards,Ruslan
Thank you for sending the .0145 lines. I have used them and I am very impressed. They seem to have considerably less resistance and have allowed me to go from 60 to 63' with no loss of overhead ability, even in wind. Corners are easier. I attribute that to less line stretch so the release from the corner is crisp. I hope that the AMA reads it's own rules and does not rule them illegal. I practice here with another expert flyer. I gave him the extra set you gave me and he is eager to try them.
One comment that you may want to put into your instructions is that they will unravel easily when cut so before cutting them to length it is a good idea to put some tape or JD Weld, etc. just below where you plan to cut. That is why mine are 63' instead of the 64' I had intended!
Ken
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Two week DELIVERY , Std Mail , Direct from Ukraine .
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Thank you for sending the .0145 lines. I have used them and I am very impressed. They seem to have considerably less resistance and have allowed me to go from 60 to 63' with no loss of overhead ability, even in wind. Corners are easier. I attribute that to less line stretch so the release from the corner is crisp. I hope that the AMA reads it's own rules and does not rule them illegal. I practice here with another expert flyer. I gave him the extra set you gave me and he is eager to try them.
One comment that you may want to put into your instructions is that they will unravel easily when cut so before cutting them to length it is a good idea to put some tape or JD Weld, etc. just below where you plan to cut. That is why mine are 63' instead of the 64' I had intended!
Ken
Hi Ken
Very good that you liked the brass lines 0.0145 of carbon steel. I previously used brass lines 0.0165. Now, in this and last year I use only lines 0.0145. This is because they are much thinner and lighter. They are much less active strong wind or gusts of wind, which are constantly blowing at the sports complex Chaika in Kiev. On the 0.0145 lines I feel more tension and better control of my airplane. On these lines, you can fly slower, not a 5.2 second circle as on 0.0165 and 5.3-5.4 seconds, so the tension of the lines and control over the aircraft does not change. At a lower speed, you have more time to make decisions. If the weight of your aircraft allows you to use the lines 0.0145 then uniquely use only these lines.
The only drawback of the 0.0145 lines is that when you snack them with pliers for your length they necessarily unfold on 4 separate, very thin and sharp steel wires.
I forgot to warn you about this. I apologize. Now in the description of these lines, I'm sure as you said I will indicate that before you bite the lines with metal clippers, you have to do so. 1 . To process with a cyacrylate a site of 5 sm (2 inches) and to process by the accelerator for glue then on the middle of the glued site it is possible to have a snack a line. Or use a soldering iron to process a section 5 cm long (2 inches) and then cut in the middle of the stuck area.
Thank you very much for the information on the lines.
I wish you good flights.
Regards,Ruslan
Two week DELIVERY , Std Mail , Direct from Ukraine .
Hi Matt
I am very pleased that the lines were delivered to you in Australia in just 2 weeks.
Write please how the lines of 0.0165 and 0.0145 behave in a very strong wind as you do and when flying under standard conditions.
Thank you. I wish you good flights.
Regards,Ruslan
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Hi
Today, in the Amazon stock for the US, new brass lines with a diameter of 0.016 and lengths of 60, 63, 64, 65 and 70 feet, and a diameter of 0.0145 with a length of 70 feet, have been on sale.
Brass Lines in the amount of 100 pcs. were produced by me only two weeks ago, and were delivered to the Amazon warehouse in just three days by the DHL service. Inventory completed.
All can buy lines at the lowest price with free shipping.
I wish all good flights and great sporting achievements!
Regards.
Ruslan Kurenkov.
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I have tried carbon steel 0.0145" lines from Ruslan today. After my old'n'trusty 7 strand 0.015" lines from MBS supply, the difference I felt was tiny, but it certainly was there. My model has not been perfectly trimmed yet, therefore it makes momentary yaws in hard corners which turns into springing along lines. But with ukrainian lines that springing was positively reduced.
Although the weather today was absolutely calm, so waiting to try them in some wind :)
Vitalis
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I have tried carbon steel 0.0145" lines from Ruslan today. After my old'n'trusty 7 strand 0.015" lines from MBS supply, the difference I felt was tiny, but it certainly was there. My model has not been perfectly trimmed yet, therefore it makes momentary yaws in hard corners which turns into springing along lines. But with ukrainian lines that springing was positively reduced.
Although the weather today was absolutely calm, so waiting to try them in some wind :)
Vitalis
Watch the line bow as you come into the wind. Mine is substantially less. I fly my .46 ships on 63'. Tried them today on a .35 ship in about 10mph and the plane held out better than the old '60 .015's.
Ken
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The Copper Coated Wires slide over ea other freely . They have less stretch than the Sig Stainless wire , and are well made . H^^
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Just a quick side note. I had my lines measured Saturday and to my surprise what I thought was 63' was 69'. I only had my 60' to compare so I just thought that cutting 8' from a set of 70' would give me about 63' not knowing exactly how long they were in the package. So make sure you measure, they give you more extra than I expected. The amazing thing is that my planes both had better line tension overhead in wind with the Ukraine 69' than they did with the 60' Sullivan lines. Then it rained and we went home.
The week before was "Footwork Day" and I was happily doing reverse wing overs and overhead eights one after another in a 15mph wind trying to teach my 71 year old body how to do them without having to move my feet. (The man who coined the phrase "Can't teach an old dog new tricks" must have been a CLPA flier.) You would think that 69' would have been a bit long for a .35 ARF Nobler in that wind. Never lost tension. These lines are really good - try them.
Please - no crude comments on not noticing that my lines were that long. I have already had to endure the chuckles from the group I fly with but it does help explain why I keep pulling out at 10' on the first wing over. Sometimes muscle memory sucks.
Ken
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Hi
Today I was very much surprised when I saw the buyer of my lines from Australia. I had never thought that Amazon could sell its products outside of America.
Even more was surprised when I saw the shipping cost paid by a buyer from Western Australia. For three sets of lines - just over $ 6 for standard delivery.
Only after that I learned that today on Amazon started Prime-Day which will last a whole month.
I think that the possibility of delivery to Australia is a service of Prime?
I wonder how long the delivery will take to Australia?
That's so far !!!
Many thanks to the buyer from Australia for your order.
I wish all excellent flights.
Regards
Ruslan
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Today my friend flew on lines from Ruslan Kurenkov and Sergey Solomyanikov. He was very happy.
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Not sure what I can add that hasn't already been mentioned by much more experienced flyers than myself. I put a set of the .0145 lines on my Imitation and immediately noticed a difference, especially in the wind. I'm not an expert pilot by any means, but I did notice a much more positive feel to the airplane, so much so that I feel some additional trimming might be required. Line tension is greater, I feel that maybe I can slow my lap times down a little bit and still feel comfortable with the performance. I will be ordering additional sets.
I found that a small amount of clear nail polish applied at the area to be cut prevented the unraveling that some have mentioned. Trail and error for me. You have to do something, or they will unravel and then you have a problem on your hands.
One additional note. Mr. Kurenkov gave me excellent customer service. There was a problem with my original order, he immediately corrected the problem at no additional cost to me. Thank you Ruslan.
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I have two flights on the 016's. I do like the feel. One thing I did notice is, I'm getting some vibration in the lines. Not enough, I think, to be concerned about but, noticeable. Is this from the stiffness of the cables?
Tom
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I have two flights on the 016's. I do like the feel. One thing I did notice is, I'm getting some vibration in the lines. Not enough, I think, to be concerned about but, noticeable. Is this from the stiffness of the cables?
Tom
Hi Tom
Brass lines are made of very rigid steel, it is high-carbon steel which transmits very lightly to your hand any slightest vibration. Stainless steel is much softer and, thanks to it, it quenches the vibration very well.
Check your propeller and spinner at the balancing stand. I think you have a small imbalance that you just did not notice before.
I wish you good flights.
Regards,Ruslan
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Thanks Ruslan.
I'm not sure I agree that it's a balance issue but will look into it. It feels to me that it is more of a resonance issue. The area I feel it the most is inverted. I will admit I am trying to work out of the habit of laying my hand down palm up. I have read previously that guys have experienced this phenomenon when not keeping their hand vertical.
Thanks and will let you know how this weekend sessions go.
Tom
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Took several flights with the new lines yesterday and I have to say, they do make a difference. I like them. Lap time went down 0.1 seconds and I had to reset my RPM. Also, the plane felt more positive at the end of the lines.
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Is anybody using these lines at the NATS? I am becoming quite attached to my .0145's and I don't want to find out that they are not going to be usable.
Ken
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You can use them as long as they are the right diameter for the weight of your airplane. It's yet to be seen how close they split the hair on that missing ,0005". If they perform that well, then the .016's out to useable on models lighter than the 64 ounce limit.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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Hello Ruslan:
I have your brass-steel lines in 60 foot length and am very pleased with results so far. Like others have said, very positive control and less bow in the lines.
I want to get 63 foot ready-made .0165 lines, but don't see them available on your website. Can you advise me where to find them?
Thanks.
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You can use them as long as they are the right diameter for the weight of your airplane. It's yet to be seen how close they split the hair on that missing ,0005". If they perform that well, then the .016's out to useable on models lighter than the 64 ounce limit.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
I am hoping that someone shows up with the .0145's and we get the issue settled. The .016 are still better than than the .015 Sullivan's I have been using but the .0145's are the best I have ever used short of solids which are great right up to the point where they stick.
Ken
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Hi Ruslan: Never mind, I found the 63 foot lines on your website. They are on a yellow reel rather than red.
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With regard to the diameter, I've measured mine and the measurement is very dependent on the orientation of the wire and how hard you squeeze the calipers. Each individual strand of the 0.0145's measured .0065". I did a layout in CAD and the diameter of the encapsulating circle is 0.0157". I think they are OK as 0.015's.
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With regard to the diameter, I've measured mine and the measurement is very dependent on the orientation of the wire and how hard you squeeze the calipers. Each individual strand of the 0.0145's measured .0065". I did a layout in CAD and the diameter of the encapsulating circle is 0.0157". I think they are OK as 0.015's.
I sure hope you are right. It all depends on the tolerances on the individual strands and how tightly they are wrapped. I just hope they are on the + side.
Ken
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Re yellow reel - that's what I thought too but the package in the picture shows the lines are brass-steel .0165, ready to use, 63 foot length, on a yellow plastic reel. I guess I will find out when they arrive via Amazon. I was only looking at red-reel pictures so missed seeing that there are brass-steel lines on a yellow reel. If there is any problem I am sure Ruslan will fix it, his customer service seems very responsive.
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I sure hope you are right. It all depends on the tolerances on the individual strands and how tightly they are wrapped. I just hope they are on the + side.
Ken
Doesn't matter how tightly they are wrapped. The sketch has them touching. Can't make the circle any smaller. With regard to the tolerances, each of the 8 strands I measured (four in each line) were the same to four decimal points.
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Rusian:
Couldn't find 0.0145 dia, 70 foot, steel - brass kit at Amazon. Are they still available?
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All hello!
I could not answer earlier, I'm going to Landres by car, 2000 km. The coils are yellow with brass lines and red coils with stainless lines. And vice versa. The lines 0.018 are only stainless. Brass only 0.0145 (0.36mm) and 0.016 (0.41mm). Lines of 0.0145x70 are available on Amazon. To search for lines, enter controllineparts in the search string Amazon. You will be provided with a choice of 23 different line options. Many thanks to all for the feedback, for orders and for comments. I am very attentive to your suggestions and remarks. I also wanted to know your opinion about whether to produce me or not brass lines 0.0145 of different lengths ready for flight. I wish all excellent flights.
Regards
RusLan.
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I'm still having trouble here.
The supplier says that the lines are .0145" diameter. The rules say .015. .0145 1s NOT .015
Why is there even a question as to the legality for 64 ounce planes in the US?
.0145 lines may be fine in FAI, but to be legal for competition here in the US a model must weigh 40 ounces or less....
Spider wire IS acceptable in the correct size.
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I'm still having trouble here.
The supplier says that the lines are .0145" diameter. The rules say .015. .0145 1s NOT .015
Why is there even a question as to the legality for 64 ounce planes in the US?
.0145 lines may be fine in FAI, but to be legal for competition here in the US a model must weigh 40 ounces or less....
Spider wire IS acceptable in the correct size.
Cut and paste FROM the rules:
"Measuring instruments for checking line diameter shall be capable of
measuring to .0001". These measurements shall be rounded off to the
nearest thousandth (.001) as follows: .0001" to .0004" shall be dropped,
and .0005" to .0009" shall be rounded up to the next highest thousandth
(.001)"
.0145 rounds to .015
These lines are actually stronger than std .015's and better BUT not everybody reads the rule book and I would like a pronouncement from those that wrote it before investing in outfitting all of my planes with them.
Ken
Ken
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Ruslan,
All is working well. I've noticed a darkening of the lines, is this okay? I'm wiping with acetone prior to every flight and light coat of air tool oil for storage. Acetone again prior to first flight.
Tom
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Motorman,
I have 15 flights on them. I'm using a paper towel? I definitely think you're on to something. Where I'm noticing the darkening is within 1-1.5 feet of the leadouts. I'm betting that little chatter I feel is the lines rubbing and wearing off the plating. I'll definitely roll them out tomorrow and inspect a little closer.
Thanks!!!
Tom
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Hi Tom. Hello to all the readers of the forum. I wrote at the beginning of the discussion that the lines darken after 30-50 flights. This is normal. This does not affect the quality of the lines. A thin layer of brass is worn with a rag and gasoline. My lines always darken after 50 flights. Write more often about your tests, ask questions, comments, suggestions. I very carefully read your messages and be sure to answer within 24 hours. Now there is not enough time for answers, but this is only until the end of the World Championship in France. I wish all excellent flights.Regards.Ruslan Kurenkov.
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Thanks Ruslan!
Good Luck!
Tom
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The lines should be measured without the brass coating, the strength is in the steel not the brass coating. So in reality you guys are flying with .013 or .012 lines %^@
Al
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Hi Ruslan :
After 35-40 flights, I see very slight color discoloration. I copper wrap my ends and that area was the first to discolor- likely due to the natural oils and salts from sweat in our hands. That very same thing happens to the copper wrapped ends of my stainless and solid lines , so I'm not at all concerned about that.
I'm wiping my lines with a clean white sock lightly doused with Acetone. Seeing some dark brown from the brass. Going to next try a micro-fiber towel.
I was initially using "Goof Off" to clean them, but stopped. At first, I was wearing latex gloves because it's certainly harmful to our skin( to say nothing of our model finishes )to use such powerful chemicals. I Googled the dangers of skin contact with lacquer thinners, lighter fluid , gasoline and Acetone. As one would expect, they're all bad news and even though I've been handling this stuff for over 50 years, I'm more concerned about carcinogenics at this point in my life than ever before. Guess I want to hang in there some more for the sake of my children and grandchildren. Strangely enough, I discovered through research that traces of Acetone can be found in our bodies and if kept to a very minimum, we're ok. Any doctors out there , please tell me otherwise and I'll follow.
Back to the lines, I double wrap around the thimbles which is a little more tricky than stainless but doable.
I will definitely seal the ends prior to snipping with either CA+ , nail polish or some other clear product. I think that is extremely important ;not only for easier handling during preparation but to prevent wire fray at the thimble end where the last of the wire exits.
I continue to wipe them with a fine instrument oil after each session and store them in a paper lunch bag in the driest area of my home.
If anyone out their interprets some or all of this care and concern as a p.i.a. , well it sorta is but its well worth it and based on my current experiences, I won't hesitate to continue to use them with the expectation that they should be replaced once a year. They sure feel great. The brass/steel .016s I use may not be AMA legal at events like the NATS, but I keep a set of solids which have a similar feel should I ever decide to dip my toe again.
Glenview NAS '72 was a long, long time ago...
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I bought a couple of sets and if I can manage to build a plane under 64oz ready to fly, I will use them.
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In all my years of using cable and solid lines I have never used any thing other than a clean rag to wipe down my lines. If I make a pass and the cloth looks really dirty I may go down them again. I was told by an individual that when you use a cleaner like alcohol, acetone ao any thing else you are removing the natural oil of the lines. He stated that is why some line get rusty areas to them. D>K
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Ruslan, I just tried ordering some lines from you, but it seems I cannot order them through Amazon.com and get them to Australia.
I'm not sure how the other guy did it. I just get a response saying:
"We are unable to ship non-digital items from amazon.com to Australian shipping addresses.
Please choose a shipping address that is not in Australia to proceed. Some restrictions may still apply depending on the item"
Amazon.com.au does not list them either.
Is there another way I can order lines from you?
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Hi Curare
If you want to purchase lines then email me your order. I will send you lines from Ukraine. The delivery time is 2-4 weeks. Here is my mail: controllineparts@gmail.com
Regards
Ruslan
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I'm wiping with acetone prior to every flight and light coat of air tool oil for storage. Acetone again prior to first flight.
I would like to warn everyone here not to use acetone for cleaning lines, especially copper coated. While it is a good degreaser, it is also a very chemically active substance, forcing corrosion processes on various metals and oxidation on other materials. If talking particularly about copper, then acetone is especially adverse there, because of photochemically reaction which occurs between it, water wapor and a copper. As a result, an intense corrosion of copper takes a place.
https://www.stonybrook.edu/vescalab/research/research7.html
Happy landings,
Vitalis
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Thanks Vitalis for the heads up.
Can I get some clarity on the best practice to ensure the best integrity of the Brass coated(copper& zinc) lines. I did go back and see Ruslan's comments in quotation boxes in this thread.
I will now list my proposed regime with the input from this thread.
1. Clean lines with gasoline with a microfiber towel prior to each flight.
2. For storage clean first with gasoline and then apply a light coat of air tool oil.
3. Store in a breathable container in the driest location possible. Right now they are on my office desk! I will not keep in my basement.
Sorry for being so thick headed but, I have a friend that used similar lines in combat. They were exposed to some rain and left in his flight box. When removed they fell apart. I just want to make sure I am doing my due diligence in keeping my lines in the best possible shape to maintain their integrity.
I love the lines and love my airplane!
I hope I'm helping others with trying to get a clear maintenance procedure.
Thanks,
Tom
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I would like to warn everyone here not to use acetone for cleaning lines, especially copper coated. While it is a good degreaser, it is also a very chemically active substance, forcing corrosion processes on various metals and oxidation on other materials. If talking particularly about copper, then acetone is especially adverse there, because of photochemically reaction which occurs between it, water wapor and a copper. As a result, an intense corrosion of copper takes a place.
https://www.stonybrook.edu/vescalab/research/research7.html
VITALIS :
I read that the lines are steel and brass, not copper. The only copper in the the ends; be they copper wire wrapped or copper tube crimp. So, why would Acetone create an issue ?
FRANK
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Brass = copper + zinc :)
FWIW so far I have used isopropyl alcohol for cleaning my lines, but would also like to know long term how to treat them.
It was very nice meeting Ruslan at the practice site in Landres, I probably should have asked him there.
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CHEMICAL RESISTANCE CHART(PDF)
www.quickcutgasket.com/pdf/chemical-resistance-chart.pdf
This rates Acetone "A"- safe when in contact with brass
Doubt if there is problem. Leave it up to the individual.
Frank
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Thanks Vitalis for the heads up.
Can I get some clarity on the best practice to ensure the best integrity of the Brass coated(copper& zinc) lines. I did go back and see Ruslan's comments in quotation boxes in this thread.
I will now list my proposed regime with the input from this thread.
1. Clean lines with gasoline with a microfiber towel prior to each flight.
2. For storage clean first with gasoline and then apply a light coat of air tool oil.
3. Store in a breathable container in the driest location possible. Right now they are on my office desk! I will not keep in my basement.
Sorry for being so thick headed but, I have a friend that used similar lines in combat. They were exposed to some rain and left in his flight box. When removed they fell apart. I just want to make sure I am doing my due diligence in keeping my lines in the best possible shape to maintain their integrity.
I love the lines and love my airplane!
I hope I'm helping others with trying to get a clear maintenance procedure.
Thanks,
Tom
I did want to correct myself. Ruslan stated to clean with Gasoline for lighters. I believe he's speaking of Ronson lighter fluid/Naptha.
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I have some 91% isopropal alcohol. I think that would be OK. How about 70%
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That copper plating is really thin, it will go away after short time and remains naked steel line. So it needs the same maintenance like classic music wire lines. I clean them with rain-x and it works well. The point is to have shiny surface on places where lines touch each other, means on outer side of cable. It will always be dark inside between the sigle wires and brown color is normal, especially after first rain or fog.
I simply soak small paper towel with rain-x and clean them while they make brown lines on white towel. Then I fly them may be 10 or 20 flights. Since I fly electric, they stay clean long time, because nanotech rain-x (unlike any other classic oil) repeals dust. However when I flew IC releasing castor to the air I needed clean them very often.
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I use petroleum solvent, which is called NEFRAS in some eastern europe countries. Also it is the same liquid as Benzin Galosha. And when I lived in Denmark I found it there as Rense Benzin.
Vitalis
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Hello, Matt. On my brass-line the whole team of China flew. They bought from me 20 sets of 0.0145 and 10 sets of 0.016. Also the entire national team of Ukraine and about 10 more pilots.
Regards. Ruslan
RIGHT . Well then. There ya go . It appears that they might work o.k. then .
Like the idea of the Windex anti static , or at least anti dust , Igor .
Wonder what happens if you magnetise lines . Both negative and theyed repel each other so wouldnt stick .
No drag as the air wouldnt stick and 10 /10 faster on T/R . VD~ or would it disolve the molecular structure .
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Brass = copper + zinc :)
FWIW so far I have used isopropyl alcohol for cleaning my lines, but would also like to know long term how to treat them.
It was very nice meeting Ruslan at the practice site in Landres, I probably should have asked him there.
Hello, Hello Pat
Thank you.
I was also very pleased to meet and talk with you a week ago at the start in Landres.
Thanks again for your order. I was very surprised when I saw the delivery from Amazon to you in Canada.
I was very pleased that you are using my brass lines at such major competitions Stunt pilots from around the world.
I also really like the method of wrapping lines with copper wire as you do.
In any alcohol there is water. Because of this, I do not use alcohol to wipe the lines. I use and recommend to all who have brass lines to use only Zippo gasoline. This is the most environmentally friendly and harmless product for you and for your hands.
I wish all excellent flights.
Regards
RusLan Kurenkov
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Hello, Hello Pat
Thank you.
I was also very pleased to meet and talk with you a week ago at the start in Landres.
Thanks again for your order. I was very surprised when I saw the delivery from Amazon to you in Canada.
I was very pleased that you are using my brass lines at such major competitions Stunt pilots from around the world.
I also really like the method of wrapping lines with copper wire as you do.
In any alcohol there is water. Because of this, I do not use alcohol to wipe the lines. I use and recommend to all who have brass lines to use only Zippo gasoline. This is the most environmentally friendly and harmless product for you and for your hands.
I wish all excellent flights.
Regards
RusLan Kurenkov
I that what we call "Lighter Fluid"? I am using Acetone - is that a bad thing?
Ken
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I that what we call "Lighter Fluid"? I am using Acetone - is that a bad thing?
Ken
Hi Ken
Acetone is a poison.
This is very bad for you and for your hands.
At us in Ukraine acetone is a narcotic substance.
Buy it can only large medical enterprises with a license and wholesale. In free sale of acetone is not.
Use products that will not harm your health.
At the moment - it's gasoline Zippo or its analog.
Regards
RusLan
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Hi Ken
Acetone is a poison.
This is very bad for you and for your hands.
At us in Ukraine acetone is a narcotic substance.
Buy it can only large medical enterprises with a license and wholesale. In free sale of acetone is not.
Use products that will not harm your health.
At the moment - it's gasoline Zippo or its analog.
Regards
RusLan
I assume this is what you are referring to. I will stop drinking Acetone immediately!
Thanks - Ken
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Hello,friends!
Thank you all for the reports on brass lines that you write here on the forum and for the messages that come to me via e-mail.
I am very glad to communicate with athletes from different countries and I want to thank you for your orders and feedback.
I spend a lot of time to absolutely everyone who bought my lines were happy. This is the most important thing for me.
Recently, to provide a broader range of management lines, I've included my website:
https://controllineparts.com
I think that for the first time there will be noticeable inaccuracies in the work of the site, for which I apologize in advance. On the service for the buyer this will not be reflected in any way.
Also I want to place a link to my page in the space for sellers and thank the administration of the forum Hangar for it.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/controllineparts-com/welcome-ruslan-kurenkov/msg527424/#new
I wish all excellent flights!
Regards
Ruslan
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I bought my first set Friday and I won't get them until next week. .016 64 foot. I will let everyone know how they work.
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Hello,friends!
Yesterday, at the request of buyers on the site https://controllineparts.com/
PayPal payment system was installed.
I wish all excellent flights.
Ruslan Kurenkov
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Hello, friends !
In September, the price on the line was significantly reduced on my sales website.
I did this for athletes who are outside the US, and can now purchase lines through Pay Pal at the same price as Amazon America buyers.
I wish all excellent flights.
Regards
Ruslan
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Hello, friends !
In September, the price on the line was significantly reduced on my sales website.
I did this for athletes who are outside the US, and can now purchase lines through Pay Pal at the same price as Amazon America buyers.
I wish all excellent flights.
Regards
Ruslan
Ruslan, thank you! I ordered 2 sets to try on my new favorite airplane. The lines look very well made. The packaging is exceptional and very professional. The price per set is great, especially with Amazon prime and the free shipping. Your efforts are to be commended.
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Ruslan, thank you! I ordered 2 sets to try on my new favorite airplane. The lines look very well made. The packaging is exceptional and very professional. The price per set is great, especially with Amazon prime and the free shipping. Your efforts are to be commended.
Hello Dane
Thank you for your good feedback.
Have you already used these lines on your new airplane?
Please write your impressions of the flight on brass lines and on stainless steel lines.
I wish you many good flights on your new plane!
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I bought two sets. Now, I have to have a plane light enough to use them. ;D
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I bought two sets. Now, I have to have a plane light enough to use them. ;D
Hello Randy
Thank you for your order.
I hope that you will be very comfortable to manage your new and very light aircraft on new lines.
Regards
Ruslan
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Hello Dane
Thank you for your good feedback.
Have you already used these lines on your new airplane?
Please write your impressions of the flight on brass lines and on stainless steel lines.
I wish you many good flights on your new plane!
I flew several flights, back to back. I used my .015 60' lines that I made (maybe a SIG kit of lines) and Ruslan's lines, .015 60' pre-made set. There is a noticeable difference. So I switched back and forth again. 3 flights on each set. I think I'm going to stick with the controllineparts.com lines for my contest plane, the TEOSAWKI.
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I flew several flights, back to back. I used my .015 60' lines that I made (maybe a SIG kit of lines) and Ruslan's lines, .015 60' pre-made set. There is a noticeable difference. So I switched back and forth again. 3 flights on each set. I think I'm going to stick with the controllineparts.com lines for my contest plane, the TEOSAWKI.
Hello Dane
Thanks for your feedback !
Your competition for which you were preparing already held?
If not yet, then I wish you to perform well.
Yesterday, October 1, on my page on Amazon, I was given the opportunity of international delivery. Also, when paying for brass steel control Lines to Amazon (FBM) that are currently being delivered from Ukraine (60 and 66), delivery time of at least 14 days should be taken into account. Amazon has mistaken two times already received payment from the buyer for delivery within 2 days on the line that is currently delivered only from Ukraine, which is at least two weeks. For this reason, there was a delay in the delivery of goods. I bring my apologies.
Regards
Ruslan
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Hello, friends!
I have two good news for you.
The first news consists of test results for the operation of brass-coated lines early in the morning on very wet, wet from dew grass. Before, I never flew constantly on wet grass early in the morning. Now, using a silent electric plane, I had the opportunity to train every morning on our football field, on the territory of which our aircraft modeling laboratory is located.
Tests were conducted within two months. Every morning I flew 4 times from 8 to 9 am, when the grass was very wet. During this period I had 25 trainings and I made only 100 flights. These are 100 takeoffs and 100 landings within 25 hours of training. Before training, I did not process my brassized lines with a rain detergent or oil to repel water. After training, I did not specifically wipe my wet brassized lines with a dry cotton cloth. My goal was to conduct a test in real weather conditions without any courting of brass-plated lines. I specifically exploited brass lines just like steel 7-wire stainless lines on which I flew 3 years ago.
After two months of flying exclusively on wet grass and after storing the lines in a dry ventilated room in my wooden launch box, I did not find any rust on the lines or any darkening from contact with dew.
At the same time, I absolutely did not wipe the lines from moisture.
I was very surprised. Now I am very glad that I personally could, as a manufacturer, conduct such an important test for my customers who constantly ask me the same question about the storage and operation of brass-plated lines.
The second good news is the presence of brass-plated lines of different lengths and a diameter of 0.0145 inches from today on Amazon. These lines are flight-ready, 61, 62, 63, and 64 feet long. A little later, in two weeks, lines with a length of 60, 65, and 66 feet with a diameter of 0.0145 will appear on sale, and lines 0.0165 with a length of 61 and 62 feet which have not been seen before.
Many thanks for your attention, your orders and your questions for which I always try to give a reasoned answer.
I wish you all many many good flights and good mood.
Regards
Ruslan Kurenkov & team Controllineparts
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I also received a set of lines from you. And some small wheels for 1/2A.
Thanks for the service. I haven't flown yet since then. I'm confident the lines will be great.
Thank you!
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I also received a set of lines from you. And some small wheels for 1/2A.
Thanks for the service. I haven't flown yet since then. I'm confident the lines will be great.
Thank you!
Hello Chris.
Yes, I remember your order on our site controllineparts.com
You chose very good lines with a diameter of 0.0145 inches.
I myself fly on such lines only a little longer. My lines are now 64 feet long. The wheels that you bought I use on the rear rack chassis. These are the lightest wheels that I managed to find from manufacturers. The weight of such a wheel is only 1 gram.
Thank you for ordering!
I think that the duration of the delivery from Ukraine to you in Los Angeles was not long?
Please write your impressions after the first flights on brass lines 0.0145
Regards
Ruslan
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Hello friends !
I want to inform you that the previously brass lines ready for flight were made by me only with a diameter of 0.0165 inches. The length of the lines was only 66' 65' and 60' feet. Now there are new length options. These are 64' 63' 62' and 61' feet.
Also, brass steel control lines with a diameter of 0.0145 were not ready for flight at all. There was only a kit available in the set length of 70 feet.
Now I began to produce lines with a diameter of 0.0145 inches, ready for flight of various lengths, 60' 61' 62' 63' 64' 65' and 66 feet.
In addition, there have been slight changes in the use of fittings. Now I use new brass rings.
The entire range of lines, and these are 32 different variants of the combination of length and diameter, are now presented on my website and on Amazon.
Thank you for your orders.
Waiting for your comments after using my lines in flight.
I wish you all a lot of good flights and good mood.
Regards
Ruslan
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Hello, friends!
I recently read a new issue of Model Aviation magazine. There, in the controlline section, Bob Hunt wrote an article about his impressions about the use of various lines and about brass steel control lines. For those who are interested in the article about the lines, i want to publish here on the forum the entire article completely with the permission of the author.
"We stunt fliers spend tremendous amounts of time and energy thinking about ways to improve our performance and the performance of our models, focusing on power systems, building and finishing techniques, and coaching and practicing, but we spend almost no time thinking about - or trying to improve on - the actual control lines on which we fly our models. We use whatever is commercially available and trust that it is going to give us the best possible performance. And, to be fair, most of the lines we have been flying on for years have yielded great performance and value.
Unlike most stunt fliers, I have opted to use solid lines instead of braided lines for most of my career. With the solids I have the advantage of being able to fly on thinner lines for a given weight of the model than if I were to use the braided lines (check out the AMA rules concerning model weights and line size requirements). Of course I’ve had to endure the down side issues of the solids as well. They need to be cleaned thoroughly before each flight with a solvent, and they are prone to “stick together” in rainy conditions. Still, the performance that I feel I’ve gained has kept me using them over the years.
Recently I had the opportunity to fly Tom Luciano’s Crossfire on a new type of line. Tom had invited me to his field to help him trim out some minor annoying tendencies in his model. When I got to the field he told me that all those issues had been fixed by a switch to a new type of control line. Tom had obtained a set of lines that are being marketed by Ruslan Kurenkov, a Ukrainian stunt flier.
Tom had been experiencing some lock issues after a hard corner with his model on the .015 cables he’d been using. It was not horrible, but annoying enough that he wanted to try and trim the model to prevent that problem. When he put the Ukrainian lines on the model, all the problems went away. And, in fact, he said the model flew better in every respect with the new lines.
One flight on Tom’s model convinced me that these were the best lines I had ever flown on by a wide margin. I told Tom, “It’s like a different hobby flying on these lines.” Not only did the model lock very securely after each corner, it also felt easier to steer through rounds and it was much easier to make accurate transitions at the intersection points in the double maneuvers. Overall there was a very positive “steerability” on these lines compared to the normal cables. They provided all the advantages that I had found in the solid lines, without any of the downsides mentioned above.
The only caveat to these new lines is that they require a bit more care in the way of storage. They are brass plated, and corrosion can be an issue. It is suggested strongly that the lines be wiped down with a rag saturated with machine oil after use. And, of course, this means that the oil must also be throughly cleaned from the lines before use (Ruslan recommends the use of Zippo lighter fluid to clean the lines).
Ruslan offers a wide variety of lines through his company, Control Line Parts, but the lines that Tom purchased are made up of 4-strand brass plated steel. I cannot comment on the stainless steel lines that are available from Control Line Parts. The brass plated steel lines are available already made up in several line lengths, and feature swagged ends. I’e never been a big fan of swagged ends on lines, so I would recommend purchasing lines that are a bit longer than you need and wrapping the ends yourself to suit.
A complete listing of available lengths and diameters of the brass plated steel lines can be found on Ruslan’s website, controllineparts.com. I highly recommend that you give them a try.
And now, goodbye…
For personal and health reasons I’m retiring as the CL Aerobatics columnist for Model Aviation effective immediately. In my tenure here it has been my privilege to try to inform and inspire CL Stunt fliers; and from the many hundreds of supportive emails and letters I’ve received it seems I’ve been successful to a large degree in that endeavor.
To try and acknowledge everyone who has contributed to the column and supported me in this post would take all the pages of this magazine, so I’ll just say thanks to everyone who contributed, and thanks to all who have taken the time to read this column while I was at the helm.
I have spoken with Jay Smith about a replacement columnist, and I’m overjoyed to report that Joe Daly has been appointed as the new guy here. Joe is an enthusiastic, extremely talented, and fully engaged Stunt flier, and I’m certain that his tenure here will be very successful.
May you have light winds and good line tension. - Bob Hunt "
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If I was really serious about flying competition stunt I would try a set. But I already have several spools of bulk lines that I make my lines from.
Thanks for the printing Bob's article. He has been an inspiration for me from the first time I met him at the 74 Lake Charles NATS when my team mate an I were making a set of lines for F2C. How many remember the lines with the little tabs/flags on them to keep the lines lined up. Celebrated when they were out lawed. They did make for faster planes when they were right, but took a lot more care.
Don't know if Bob will see this but he did act surprised when I told him I read all of his stuff. Hope he has a long happy retirement. H^^
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If I was really serious about flying competition stunt I would try a set. But I already have several spools of bulk lines that I make my lines from.
Thanks for the printing Bob's article. He has been an inspiration for me from the first time I met him at the 74 Lake Charles NATS when my team mate an I were making a set of lines for F2C. How many remember the lines with the little tabs/flags on them to keep the lines lined up. Celebrated when they were out lawed. They did make for faster planes when they were right, but took a lot more care.
Don't know if Bob will see this but he did act surprised when I told him I read all of his stuff. Hope he has a long happy retirement. H^^
You should give them a try then alert us to the EBay link where you are selling your bulk stash! LL~
They are that much better. y1
I am going to miss Bob's articles too. I have never had the pleasure of meeting him personally but his Crossfire was my Windows background while I was in the wilderness.
ken
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Hello, friends !
I want to inform you that recently, after numerous production experiments and positive February flight tests, from 01.03.2020, I began to produce completely new brass lines which are the best product to date in the last five years. These are lines consisting of three rows and have a new diameter of 0.375 mm (0.0145), they are now also twisted as lines with a diameter of 0.415 mm (0.0165) and these are 10 turns per 10 mm of length. Previously, there were 4 strands, the diameter of the lines was 0.370 mm (0.014) and there were 6 turns per 10 mm of length (not fully twisted).
The lines work ideally with a power installation, which provides excellent glide among themselves, without any sticking in the complete absence of vibration from the aircraft electric motor.
On the site controllineparts.com these are any lines with a diameter of 0.014 - 0.0145.
On Amazon, new lines 0.0145x70 and 0.0145x60.
Thank you all for your attention.
I wish you many great flights.
Ruslan Kurenkov.
https://www.amazon.com/Control-Planes-Yellow-0-0145x2x70-controllineparts/dp/B07BX5V6KQ?ref_=ast_bbp_dp
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Hello, friends !
Today I want to tell you about our new fluid that we developed and tested for long-term storage and use of steel brass lines. This liquid completely removes moisture and any contaminants from the surface of the lines and completely prevents rusting of brass steel lines during long-term storage and long-term operation. The liquid is applied from the bottle to the cotton cloth and then with this cloth you wipe the lines before training and after finishing flying before reeling onto the reel. After wiping the lines with PMDS-20 liquid, you will immediately feel how it becomes easier to control your plane. When rubbing against each other, the lines begin to slide and the friction decreases significantly. Water, rain, fog and dew when dropped on your brass lines are immediately thrown to the side. The liquid has a strong water-repellent effect, it penetrates inward between individual strands and forcing out dirt, dust and water no longer allows water to penetrate between the strands and start corrosion there. The anti-corrosion fluid must be used before each workout, and during training flights, wipe the lines with a dry cotton cloth without any means. Before reeling up the lines, wipe the lines again with a cotton cloth dampened with liquid.
If you are careful about your lines, carefully unwind and rewind them, carefully fasten and unfasten them from the carabiners on the control handle and on the wing, do not step on them, do not cling to the lines when planting on stones on asphalt or tall dense grass, constantly wipe the lines with a cotton cloth from dust and dirt, from castor oil which from the engine will get onto the lines, from moisture with the help of PDMS-20 - your lines will last you a very long time and will give you many good flights and a lot of good mood.
Regards
Ruslan Kurenkov
https://controllineparts.com/lines/191-polydimethylsiloxane.html
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Hello, friends !
Today I want to inform you about the new lines that we began to produce in the spring, in April of this year. These are brand new brass carbon steel lines with a diameter of 0.0145 inches. (0.38mm) 50 lb. of 3 strands, with a diameter of 0.018 in. (0.45mm) 60 lb. from 4 strands.
The new lines are wound on more convenient plastic reels of a new design in yellow or red.
New brass plated carbon steel lines 0.0145 (0.38mm) and 0.018 (0.45mm) are now available on Amazon in 7 sizes 60.61.62.63.64.65 and 70ft.
Also on Amazon are presented brass lines made of carbon steel with a diameter of 0.0165 (0.425 mm) 50lb. of 4 strands in 8 sizes of lengths 60,61,62,63,64,65,66 and 70 feet and traditional stainless steel lines from MBS with a diameter of 0.015 in. and 0.018 in. in two basic sizes, lengths 60 and 70 feet.
The new brass-plated carbon steel lines consisting of 3 strands 0.38 mm in diameter meet the AMA regulations for F2B models weighing up to 64 oz and work ideally on F2B models flying without vibration using electric motors.
The new brass-plated carbon steel 4-strand 0.45mm line meets AMA regulations for F2B models weighing over 64oz and is ideal for large or heavy F2B models using powerful 75-81 nitro motors.
I wish you many good flights.
Ruslan Kurenkov
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=controllineparts&ref=bl_dp_s_web_18022085011
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I just got in 2 sets of the new 3 strand lines. I have two questions about these lines. First the free wire loop on the crimped ends snagged my connectors in testing enough to make me cut them off and start wrapping. Is there anything different about wrapping this line than any other? I suspect not other than if the sharpness of the bend folding the wire back is an issue. Second, I have always looped around the thimble twice. I don't think this adds strength but it is more secure and makes the wrap easier (for me). Am I weakening the connection by doing this?
Ken
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FWIW. I feel the objective of any/all wrapping of line terminations has one objective, to reduce the possibility of creating a stress riser, mainly where the wrapping stops and the actual line begins.
Metal tubes allow that possibility, rounding edges and softer metal (copper, brass, etc) reduce the possibility somewhat.
I prefer copper wire wrapping for leadouts because copper wire can flex somewhat where the lines exit that last wrap. I avoid putting CA/epoxy on the wrapping because it hardens the wrapping, losing the flex, and creates a stress riser. Heat shrink tubing hides ugly wrapping (like mine) yet causes no stress riser.
Finally, I've wrapped leadouts using the AMA illustration since 1956 and never experienced a failure, so I have confidence it works. As above, FWIW.
dg
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Second, I have always looped around the thimble twice. I don't think this adds strength but it is more secure and makes the wrap easier (for me). Am I weakening the connection by doing this?
Probably not - but I note that the AMA "recommended" method does show two wraps, and not one. If I go out to a field tomorrow, and inspect everyone's lines, what do you suppose I would find?
I say "recommended" and not required, because while it says "required", the very next sentence "other methods can be used if the CD determines it is just a strong" - which is the justification for the new stunt rule allowing "any construction". The pull test is how the CD determines that the method is "just as strong". We had a pretty lengthy offline discussion about that one with various interested parties, we decided it was OK.
Brett
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So please clarify, Brett, that your new 10G pull test rule is for the whole package; lines & ends. So other systems than crimping or copper wrapping are ok as long as they pass the pull test?
Sorry for the silly question, I just want to be sure that I got it right.
Not a silly question, but yes, you can use anything you want as long as it passes a pull test. The side discussion was about whether or not it was necessary to cross-propose the "or construction" part of the proposal which I inadvertenly omitted, the answer was no, that could be resolved without a cross-proposals.
Note that not specifying the termination was far more important for non-metallic lines than for metallic lines (which we have long since had general agreement about). But it is very likely that people will come up with something better than the AMA "required" knots for Spectra or otherwise, and we don't want to repeat the mistake where we have something stronger/safer, but can't use it because the rules specify something less good.
Brett
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Ruslan -have you tested the various size lines to failure? If so, what (roughly) will they take? We can handle newtons or kg, and no one will hold you to it, but what is the range of failure tension? It is tempting to use the .0145 lines, but I would probably want to maintain some margin over the pull test to address fatigue.
Brett
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Probably not - but I note that the AMA "recommended" method does show two wraps, and not one. If I go out to a field tomorrow, and inspect everyone's lines, what do you suppose I would find?
I say "recommended" and not required, because while it says "required", the very next sentence "other methods can be used if the CD determines it is just a strong" - which is the justification for the new stunt rule allowing "any construction". The pull test is how the CD determines that the method is "just as strong". We had a pretty lengthy offline discussion about that one with various interested parties, we decided it was OK.
Brett
I do the double wrap, always have, best way to prevent slippage. What I was referring to was looping around the grommet. I had always done an extra loop. The Ukraine lines are too stiff for that. The way that they terminate the lines is in my opinion , asking for a hang up.
Ken
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Ruslan -have you tested the various size lines to failure? If so, what (roughly) will they take? We can handle newtons or kg, and no one will hold you to it, but what is the range of failure tension? It is tempting to use the .0145 lines, but I would probably want to maintain some margin over the pull test to address fatigue.
Brett
The set I just bought (3 wire .0145) are stamped 50lb. It doesn't state if that is each line or combined. I think I asked him that once on the older lines and it is "Each".
Ken
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What I was referring to was looping around the grommet.
Yes, that's what I was talking about. And the fact that if I go out the the field (which I will, in about an hour) and inspect the lines (standard .018 stranded SS), I bet I would find 99% of them with a single wrap around the eyelet, not double. The AMA "required" termination method - which is really just recommended - shows two wraps.
I would use pre-made terminations only in the most extreme emergencies, and would cut off factory termination and redo them myself. I have seen far too make factory terminations that were not made properly.
Brett
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Ruslan -have you tested the various size lines to failure? If so, what (roughly) will they take? We can handle newtons or kg, and no one will hold you to it, but what is the range of failure tension? It is tempting to use the .0145 lines, but I would probably want to maintain some margin over the pull test to address fatigue.
Brett
Hello Brett
I have tested all available lines of different diameters and different materials for rupture.
To do this, I took a piece of a line 5 feet (1.5 m) long, sealed the ends on both sides in different ways, with copper pipes, copper wire, Kevlar (like Lauri) and pulled very slowly, without jerks, attaching one end through a thick wire to a heavy iron table and the other end to the hook of the electronic scale, which showed me the growing weight in kg or lbs. During the destruction of the line, I memorized the readings on the scales.
A 7-core stainless steel line with a diameter of 0.015 collapsed at a load of 11.5 - 12.5 kg, which is 25 - 27 pounds.
The stainless 7-core line, 0.018 in diameter, collapsed at a load of 17.5-18.5 kg, which is 38.5-40.5 pounds.
The line is brass plated, 3-strand, 0.0145 in diameter, collapsed under a load of 22-23 kg, which is 48.5 - 50.5 lbs.
The brass plated 4-strand line, 0.0165 in diameter, collapsed at 23-24 kg load, which is 50.5 - 53 pounds.
The brass plated 4-core line, 0.018 in diameter, collapsed under a load of 27-29 kg, which is 60-64 pounds.
Brass eyelets always start to collapse, stretching into an oval after a load of 24-25 kg, that's 53-55 lbs. With such a load on one line, which is 50 kg or 100 pounds if it is applied to the aircraft through two lines, the metal elements of the aircraft control system are completely destroyed.
I currently only use 0.0145 brass 3 conductor lines. This is the best option for F2B. These are very strong carbon steel lines and are afraid of tight bends unlike the 7 strand stainless lines. I've tested a lot with different line end terminations. This is all on the personal desire of the athlete. There is no difference in strength. There is only a difference in ease of use and manufacturing capabilities. Whoever has what hands are capable of doing so. I wrapped it around the eyelet once or twice. For a brass-plated cable, one revolution is better. At two revolutions, there is a slight backlash, or damping, which leads to rapid destruction after 100-150 flights. For stainless steel wire, it doesn't make a difference, one turn or two, I always only use one loop around the eyelet. Earlier, a very long time ago, more than 7 years ago, I used an end seal as Lauri recommends. Then, when I started using crimping pipes, I realized that it was very simple and quick, after which I stopped using Kevlar or copper wire just to save time. I constantly change the length of the lines, the diameters of the lines, the materials of the lines to find the best option, which leads to a very large number of end closures. With such a volume of work, I am saved by the crimp tubes that have worked perfectly for me for 5 years and more than 2000 flights.
Regards
Ruslan
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After seeing this I ran up to the local hobby shop and bought a set of "Sig" 70' x .018 for $12.00.
$12.00? Thats a good deal because Sigs website lists them at $23.40 unwrapped.
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For what it’s worth, I used the same set of Ukraine lines as is, with the crimps for two years and never had an issue during NATS pull tests or any other flights that I had with them. Now that the new line size rule will be in effect, I plan on changing to the .0165” lines on the current airplane for next year
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Yes, that's what I was talking about. And the fact that if I go out the the field (which I will, in about an hour) and inspect the lines (standard .018 stranded SS), I bet I would find 99% of them with a single wrap around the eyelet, not double. The AMA "required" termination method - which is really just recommended - shows two wraps.
Brett
Wondering where the info you're refering to about "two" wraps around eyelet comes from. Don't see it anywhere in the rulebook. Here's a link to current rules showing two line line construction:
https://www.modelaircraft.org/sites/default/files/Control_Line_General_2019-2021.pdf
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Wondering where the info you're refering to about "two" wraps around eyelet comes from. Don't see it anywhere in the rulebook. Here's a link to current rules showing two line line construction:
https://www.modelaircraft.org/sites/default/files/Control_Line_General_2019-2021.pdf
5.3 figure 3. Read the instruction.
Ken
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5.3 figure 3. Read the instruction.
Ken
Thanks for pointing it out.
I see it now in step 1 figure 3. I mostly use crimped sleeves so I didn't notice that on the "wrap" figure
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I am saved by the crimp tubes that have worked perfectly for me for 5 years and more than 2000 flights.
Back to my original question about the large loop around the crimp tube. I tested my new set of lines and the loop snagged on the line clips quite easily. Part of that is the flat on the clips that doesn't need to be there and I have ground off. Why the large loop? I don't like staggering the leadouts. Makes line changes difficult.
Ken
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Back to my original question about the large loop around the crimp tube. I tested my new set of lines and the loop snagged on the line clips quite easily. Part of that is the flat on the clips that doesn't need to be there and I have ground off. Why the large loop? I don't like staggering the leadouts. Makes line changes difficult.\
Why are you using crimps? Of course they snag, that's the problem.
I note that this, also, is contrary to the AMA "requirements", they show the loop of the free end of the line going through the crimp tube on the inside. Looping it outside is far more secure, but has the problem you noted. That's why *nobody uses crimps*, and why of you buy a set with crimped tubes, you cut off the ends and remake them properly.
Brett
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Why are you using crimps? Of course they snag, that's the problem.
I note that this, also, is contrary to the AMA "requirements", they show the loop of the free end of the line going through the crimp tube on the inside. Looping it outside is far more secure, but has the problem you noted. That's why *nobody uses crimps*, and why of you buy a set with crimped tubes, you cut off the ends and remake them properly.
Brett
Which is what I do and did. Something Ruslan typed in one of the posts had me wondering if was safe to wrap the 3 wire lines the same way. "These are very strong carbon steel lines and are afraid of tight bends unlike the 7 strand stainless lines". That flip back of the wire for the 2nd wrap is pretty tight bend but without it, well, you might as well just tie a granny knot. I did it anyway but I noticed that the line really relaxes and loses it's spring with that sharp a bend.
Ken
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Back to my original question about the large loop around the crimp tube. I tested my new set of lines and the loop snagged on the line clips quite easily. Part of that is the flat on the clips that doesn't need to be there and I have ground off. Why the large loop? I don't like staggering the leadouts. Makes line changes difficult.
Ken
Hello Ken
You have raised a very interesting question for me. The end-of-line seal, which is official from the AMA, is not new to me. In this way, I have been sealing the ends of lines for a long time on order for several athletes. Igor Burger published this technique for sealing the ends of the lines long ago on his website, with a slight difference, he used very thin metal crimping tubes from the needles of medical syringes.
The termination of the ends of the lines with loops, which I am doing now, is the option that I saw on the back of the SIG set as an option for terminating the ends of the lines that is acceptable in the USA. This option was also confirmed to me by several F2B pilots from the USA. But that was a long time ago. And it's never too late to change something. The main thing is not to stand still. Now, when I personally saw the AMA rules document for sealing the ends of the lines, I immediately took the lines, crimping pipes and completely repeated the AMA version that is relevant at the moment. Conducted strength tests today. Line 0.0145 collapses reaching the ultimate strength of 50 lb(23 kg), but at the termination point of the line, everything remains undamaged. I think that this method of terminating the ends of the lines from today will be one of the main ones, as well as the time-tested SIG loop.
In order for the line connections not to cling to each other, we spread them along the length, so that while flying the plane, they do not intersect with each other on a collision course. The difference in the length of the cables coming out of the wing is 5 inches. This is enough so that the fasteners of two different lines do not come into contact with each other and do not get caught.
See the photo in the attachment.
I can make terminated lines for you as the AMA recommends for testing. After that you will write on the forum your impressions of flying on lines with a new termination without loops. To do this, write me the length and diameter of the lines for you. I will send you lines with a new termination without loops in a couple of days for testing. The end result is very important to me.
Regards.
Ruslan Kurenkov.
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Hello Ken
You have raised a very interesting question for me. The end-of-line seal, which is official from the AMA, is not new to me. In this way, I have been sealing the ends of lines for a long time on order for several athletes. Igor Burger published this technique for sealing the ends of the lines long ago on his website, with a slight difference, he used very thin metal crimping tubes from the needles of medical syringes.
The termination of the ends of the lines with loops, which I am doing now, is the option that I saw on the back of the SIG set as an option for terminating the ends of the lines that is acceptable in the USA. This option was also confirmed to me by several F2B pilots from the USA. But that was a long time ago. And it's never too late to change something. The main thing is not to stand still. Now, when I personally saw the AMA rules document for sealing the ends of the lines, I immediately took the lines, crimping pipes and completely repeated the AMA version that is relevant at the moment. Conducted strength tests today. Line 0.0145 collapses reaching the ultimate strength of 50 lb(23 kg), but at the termination point of the line, everything remains undamaged. I think that this method of terminating the ends of the lines from today will be one of the main ones, as well as the time-tested SIG loop.
In order for the line connections not to cling to each other, we spread them along the length, so that while flying the plane, they do not intersect with each other on a collision course. The difference in the length of the cables coming out of the wing is 5 inches. This is enough so that the fasteners of two different lines do not come into contact with each other and do not get caught.
See the photo in the attachment.
I can make terminated lines for you as the AMA recommends for testing. After that you will write on the forum your impressions of flying on lines with a new termination without loops. To do this, write me the length and diameter of the lines for you. I will send you lines with a new termination without loops in a couple of days for testing. The end result is very important to me.
Regards.
Ruslan Kurenkov.
I am impressed that you responded so quickly and positively! I really appreciate the offer and I would take you up in a heartbeat but you might want to find another flier on the forum to test. I damaged my knee Saturday and it may be few weeks or more before I can fly again. I understand the reason for staggering the leadouts. I used to do that but stopped when I started wrapping my own. I like the idea of being able to use a "stock" set of lines in a pinch and as far as I can tell, none of the guys here stagger them either.
Ken
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Ruslan,
Do you have the equivalent to 0.012 x 60'? This would fit our ships that are 35 - 46 engine size (under 64 oz.). Also could use 0.010 x 60' for ships under 40 oz. (Ringmasters, Flite strikes, many OTS ships with Fox 35's).
Best, DennisT
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I am impressed that you responded so quickly and positively! I really appreciate the offer and I would take you up in a heartbeat but you might want to find another flier on the forum to test. I damaged my knee Saturday and it may be few weeks or more before I can fly again. I understand the reason for staggering the leadouts. I used to do that but stopped when I started wrapping my own. I like the idea of being able to use a "stock" set of lines in a pinch and as far as I can tell, none of the guys here stagger them either.
Ken
Get well soon. By the time your knee is completely healthy, your new loopless ends will be waiting for you at home. I want to decide for myself which lines to send you. I think you will be pleased to receive a surprise from me. You don't have to fly to test new lines. The most important thing is to determine the ease of operation of the control system, without snagging, when moving your hand up and down with the new lines set to your plane. Write to me in private messages the length of your lines on which you fly and your home address for delivery.
Regards Ruslan.
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Ruslan,
Do you have the equivalent to 0.012 x 60'? This would fit our ships that are 35 - 46 engine size (under 64 oz.). Also could use 0.010 x 60' for ships under 40 oz. (Ringmasters, Flite strikes, many OTS ships with Fox 35's).
Best, DennisT
Hello Dennis
I have in stock brass plated 3-strand lines with a length of 1000 feet 0.013 inches (0.35 mm) that have been made specifically for me to order for F2C racing. These lines are not yet on the site or in my store on Amazon.
The packaging is not ready for yet, but there are good test results for F2B. These lines work well in very strong winds, they are as strong as 7-strand 0.018 lines, but twice as thin. When flying on them, you will not see the curved sagging line from your control stick going to your aircraft during flight as on 0.018 thick springy lines.
Up to 63 feet in length, they work great. Beginning to reach over 65 feet in length and reduce the speed of command transmission from pilot to aircraft.
I will be able to send you several sets of these lines up to 63 feet long with the new termination system without loop as I did earlier.
Write to me in private messages the length of your lines and your home address for delivery.
Regards Ruslan.
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A 7-core stainless steel line with a diameter of 0.015 collapsed at a load of 11.5 - 12.5 kg, which is 25 - 27 pounds.
The stainless 7-core line, 0.018 in diameter, collapsed at a load of 17.5-18.5 kg, which is 38.5-40.5 pounds.
That's very interesting - whose lines were these (Sullivan/Pylon, from MBS, RSM, etc)? That is very similiar to what I got in multiple tests with some of the SIG lines I got, but felt "odd" and even sounded strange when moving them around - well under the industry standards for that size lines. This was all a long time ago, but they were definitely different from the wire I got from several other sources just from casual inspection. They failed in a very odd way, I have no idea how, but on a test with full-length lines and s spring-scale tester, they failed in *multiple places* in the middle of the lines. I found a section of about 10 feet in the middle just lying in the grass afterward.
Both the Sullivan/Pylon and the bulk cable I got from MBS is more like ~45 lbs for the .015s and ~60 lbs for the .018s, which is consistent with the industry standards for 302 stainless steel wire rope. Of course, even the strengths you show are well above the actual load in either a pull test or flight. And yes, it definitely does wreck the eyelets.
I would also caution anyone doing any sort of test to be *very careful* and take precautions to keep themselves safe. Putting 60 lbs on a cable or high-strength fishing line and then having it break and whip towards you can cause a nasty cut or take out an eye very easily. At 60ish lbs on .018 lines 70 feet long, they might stretch well over *a foot*, that is a tremendous amount of potential energy, and when it breaks it will go whipping out at very high speeds, and can easily slice you up.
Brett
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The termination of the ends of the lines with loops, which I am doing now, is the option that I saw on the back of the SIG set as an option for terminating the ends of the lines that is acceptable in the USA. This option was also confirmed to me by several F2B pilots from the USA. But that was a long time ago.
So, from your first picture - you are splicing the leadouts with a music wire termination, and presumably soldering them? That looks like a lap splice with a wrap, maybe? The AMA says nothing about leadouts, but that is quite alarming. I saw that the Yatsenko leadouts are made the same way - but with *only solder holding them*, no wrap.
What sort of solder (i.e. lead/tin/silver content) are you using, and how to you apply it? I ask because the typical soft solder we use here is *completely inadequate* to do something like that safely and no one here should ever, ever, attempt to use the usual 60/40 or 63/37 soft solder, or the 4% silver-bearing solder/StaBrite in this manner, it WILL NOT hold for long. Anything that has a chance of surviving this application (that I know about in the USA ) would require a torch to heat it and I would still be terrified to count simply on solder to hold it.
I know from other examples in old radios that at least some of the USSR electronics used some sort of high-temp solder that requires maybe 1100 degrees (F) to melt, meaning it is nearly impossible with standard temp-controlled soldering irons - you can't set them that high. But presumably they didn't assemble radios with a torch.
Brett
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Ruslan, Brett
Testing lines and getting any meaningful data cannot be done with a horizontal pull and visually checking the scale as it pops. The best way I have found is a vertical pull test. One end of the line with appropriate termination is attached to a hook screwed into the ceiling joist. About a five / six foot section of line to be tested with a termination on the end, is connected to a suitable size bucket. A wash bucket ,plastic or metal, your choice. The length of the line sample is set to such a length that the bottom of the bucket is a couple of inches off the floor. At this point there is no scale involved. Now you begin to fill the bucket with sand from the grandsons sandbox (Walmart sells it). You can preload the bucket with some weights so you don't have to deal with a whole truck load of sand. Anyway, you slowly add sand. As you get to the final stages you slow down the addition of sand. Pop!, it breaks and the bucket, which is only an inch or so from the floor, drops down. You now weigh the bucket of sand. This gives you an accurate estimate of the final break strength of the line.
...modified to correct "weight of sand and bucket" ....
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Ruslan, Brett
You now weigh the bucket of sand and subtract the bucket weight. This gives you an accurate estimate of the final break strength of the line.
Why is it necessary to subtract the bucket weight? Is not the bucket weight part of the pull being exerted on the line when the line breaks and why should that not be measured as part of the total weight, just like the weights and sand in the bucket?
Keith
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Good point ..... Daaaaa ......it was before my coffee
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But what has that achieved other than proving the breaking strain of that short piece of wire? The pull test is surely designed to test the model, its control connections, the lines at flight length inc. terminations + any stretch and hopefully the bit you hold - all for robustness in flight ready condition!
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But what has that achieved other than proving the breaking strain of that short piece of wire? The pull test is surely designed to test the model, its control connections, the lines at flight length inc. terminations + any stretch and hopefully the bit you hold - all for robustness in flight ready condition!
This would just be for testing the strength of material, in an as-built condition. For actual pre-flight testing of a complete set of lines, you do not pull them until they break, you have a fixed load that will (presumably) not break them.
But, even then, I do not stand near when someone else is pull-testing to 40 lbs (or whatever) where the load is far less, and the strain (the elongation) is a few inches - and therefore much less potential energy. Unless it is me doing the test!
Brett
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Brett,
I have never seen Yatsenko-lead outs without copper wrapping.
The airplane Jim Aron got from Orestes was like that, just a bare lap joint. I think he redid it properly.
The normal solder (40/60) will work just fine but you must know how to solder properly.
The internet is a wonderful place.
Brett
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Maybe solder is OK if you have the skills and know how to bind the lines together without creating a weak spot at the end of the splice or get some corrosion or..... Why not just wrap them and be done with it. Personally, I don't let solder anywhere near my control systems from the bellcrank pivot to the handle and I have never had one fail.
On another note, Ruslan has presented us with a golden opportunity. Thanks to Brett our ridiculous line requirements are no more and we have a line manufacturer who wants to make us happy. He can only do that if *we* tell him what we want.
What I want is 65', zero weight, zero stretch and zero drag. Others may be more demanding. LL~
Seriously - Ken
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So, from your first picture - you are splicing the leadouts with a music wire termination, and presumably soldering them? That looks like a lap splice with a wrap, maybe? The AMA says nothing about leadouts, but that is quite alarming. I saw that the Yatsenko leadouts are made the same way - but with *only solder holding them*, no wrap.
What sort of solder (i.e. lead/tin/silver content) are you using, and how to you apply it? I ask because the typical soft solder we use here is *completely inadequate* to do something like that safely and no one here should ever, ever, attempt to use the usual 60/40 or 63/37 soft solder, or the 4% silver-bearing solder/StaBrite in this manner, it WILL NOT hold for long. Anything that has a chance of surviving this application (that I know about in the USA ) would require a torch to heat it and I would still be terrified to count simply on solder to hold it.
I know from other examples in old radios that at least some of the USSR electronics used some sort of high-temp solder that requires maybe 1100 degrees (F) to melt, meaning it is nearly impossible with standard temp-controlled soldering irons - you can't set them that high. But presumably they didn't assemble radios with a torch.
Brett
Yes it is. In the photo, the parts of the control system are soldered. For soldering, a conventional 60/40 solder is used (60 percent tin and 40 percent lead.) It was not me who soldered, this is the work of Sergii Solomianikov. Sometimes I make lines for Combat F2D for friends. According to the rules of the FAI, the endings of the lines should only be soldered. I have been soldering them myself. For many years. I really love to solder. For good soldering, you need to know a lot of secrets. 8 years ago I flew in F2D, and during a training flight, my partner's plane flew towards me at a speed of 100 mph and hit my lines. The blow was so strong that the control handle was torn from the hand, a strong safety loop made of a nylon rope snapped like a thin thread. My hand was nearly torn off, leaving a scar on my wrist. The controls were completely destroyed and were thrown out of the plane completely. And now the fun part. The lines did not collapse. There were no destructions in the soldering points. Everything collapsed, but not the lines. This is just food for thought. And nothing more. The most important thing is to follow the rules. If soldering is prohibited, it means you cannot solder!
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Hi.
I thought it might be good to share this.
I fly quite a lot alone and over wet grass, it's quite rough for the carbon steel lines. (Or any lines, actually) New lines are very nice, but as soon as the brass coating gets worn, corrosion starts and friction goes up quite quickly. You can see the amount of red/brown residue when wiping the lines..
I think most people use silicone to lubricate the lines. Of course, from purely tribological point of view, it works, and good for them if they are happy with it. But I really dislike the silicone as it tends to contaminate and make slippery everything it's in contact with. That can be a real pain in a** if you are doing some painting work at the same time, for example.
But anyway, I think I've found a better product; PTFE (Teflon) dry lubricant. Like silicone, it leaves a thin, dry polymer layer over the surface that repels water, dirt and oil very well, and seems to last quite long, too. And it doesn't seem to contaminate everything it touches, like silicone does.
It's easily available from many suppliers, I think the most common brands are CRC, WD40 and Molykote. I bought CRC as it was the first I found.
Before applying it to lines, it's best to de-grease the lines well with acetone. First I tried to spray the product to a paper towel and then wipe the lines with it, but I found that quite time consuming. I found it's easier to spray the product quite liberally directly to the line reel and let it dry. Then unroll the lines and burnish the coating with a dry paper towel.
I really like how it works. Yesterday I flew (IC) all day in calm & rain, just wiping the lines with dry paper between flights. Compared to flying with untreated lines in those conditions, there is a big difference in smoothness, and also a huge difference in the amount of s**t left in paper towel when wiping the lines.
Highly recommended! L
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I haven't the will to read copious comments here , it may have been suggested already. I haven't tried myself but will as I have just thought of it. Trout fishing line dressing. I drench with WD 40 and wipe off -if lines get damp or wet. Mostly I wipe with a paper towel sprayed with silicon. Then return with a dry clean paper towel to remove crap. All my lines - except Spectra- are 7 strand stainless. Will let you know how Line Dressing works. ( I know it makes a HUGE difference to casting)
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John,
If you're talking about the WD-40 multi purpose oil. With our lines it's a big no-no, except maybe for storage, as oily lines will quickly attract dust, and dust together with oil makes a great grinding paste.
It has to be dry-lubricant. L
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But anyway, I think I've found a better product; PTFE (Teflon) dry lubricant. Like silicone, it leaves a thin, dry polymer layer over the surface that repels water, dirt and oil very well, and seems to last quite long, too.
As I mentioned (4 years ago in this same thread, reply #45!), it doesn't last long on solids but I hadn't tried it on the brass-plated lines (since I have exactly 1 set of the .0165s and no more likely to be forthcoming...). I am surprised it helps anything with corrosion.
Brett
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.
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Rain-X does not work?
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Oh, I missed that one.
But, how did you apply it back then? As I wrote, just wiping with a paper with PTFE spray in it didn't do much, it's better to put way too much and then wipe it off and let it really be burnished into clean surface. Maybe that makes a difference? With solid lines, no idea. But with years and years of braided carbon steel, I can absolutely tell the difference it makes. So far I've only been using the product for 2 weeks, only time will tell how labour-intensive it'll be to keep it working like that but so far I've been happy. Maybe, especially with IC, it would be a good idea to deep-clean the lines in ultrasonic bath every now and then, and re-do the treatment to totally clean lines. L
The difference might be that you don't have a large enough surface area of the lines rubbing together to shear it off, or at least, not as fast.
I sprayed it from the spray can it came in. There was *plenty* of it on there, the lines went from polished silver to flat white. Then it flaked off in flight, and you could see it stripped off in large sections. It worked pretty well, with similar wear effects, on things like table saw and jointer tables. That's where I got my first can - my dad was using it on woodworking tools.
Brett
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Rain-X works on solid lines. Apply, let dry, burnish. I can't say how long it lasts, but it got me thru one full race in a steady rain. No lockup at all on the controls. I believe we would have lost the plane without it.
Dave
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I use rain-X for years on this topic type lines for years without problem, it will clean them, lubricate and I think also protect to some extent. Also never problems in rain.
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Since "Rain Shield" (The green aerosol can) hasn't been available years, I've tried the guitar/banjo/mandolin product "Finger Ease" for cleaning and avoiding sticking due to moisture. Only on stranded lines have I tried, having discarded solids long ago.
FWIW,
dg
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I expected that Ruslan will jump in, but they have proably other problems on Ukraine than reading Stunthangar, so I will repost his earlier post.
BTW Rain-x and also other "liquid wipers" are also PMDS (with some solvent), here is link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rain-X
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polydimethylsiloxane
Hello, friends !
Today I want to tell you about our new fluid that we developed and tested for long-term storage and use of steel brass lines. This liquid completely removes moisture and any contaminants from the surface of the lines and completely prevents rusting of brass steel lines during long-term storage and long-term operation. The liquid is applied from the bottle to the cotton cloth and then with this cloth you wipe the lines before training and after finishing flying before reeling onto the reel. After wiping the lines with PMDS-20 liquid, you will immediately feel how it becomes easier to control your plane. When rubbing against each other, the lines begin to slide and the friction decreases significantly. Water, rain, fog and dew when dropped on your brass lines are immediately thrown to the side. The liquid has a strong water-repellent effect, it penetrates inward between individual strands and forcing out dirt, dust and water no longer allows water to penetrate between the strands and start corrosion there. The anti-corrosion fluid must be used before each workout, and during training flights, wipe the lines with a dry cotton cloth without any means. Before reeling up the lines, wipe the lines again with a cotton cloth dampened with liquid.
If you are careful about your lines, carefully unwind and rewind them, carefully fasten and unfasten them from the carabiners on the control handle and on the wing, do not step on them, do not cling to the lines when planting on stones on asphalt or tall dense grass, constantly wipe the lines with a cotton cloth from dust and dirt, from castor oil which from the engine will get onto the lines, from moisture with the help of PDMS-20 - your lines will last you a very long time and will give you many good flights and a lot of good mood.
Regards
Ruslan Kurenkov
https://controllineparts.com/lines/191-polydimethylsiloxane.html