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Author Topic: Uh-oh, Drones...what you can't do to them. Thanks, FAA...  (Read 3326 times)

Offline Steve Helmick

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Uh-oh, Drones...what you can't do to them. Thanks, FAA...
« on: September 08, 2015, 11:53:45 PM »
Saw this on Bass Boat Central's forum, and thought some of youse guys could use the guidance. Open the video to full screen and stop the ad after 3 seconds...it's allowed!  y1 Steve

http://videos.komando.com/watch/8465/kims-reports-are-you-allowed-to-shoot-down-a-drone?utm_medium=nl&utm_source=tvkim&utm_content=2015-09-08-article-screen-shot-b
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Phillip Kenney

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Re: Uh-oh, Drones...what you can't do to them. Thanks, FAA...
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2015, 01:02:03 AM »
Not that I would care to pay a lawyer to find out for sure, but in the legal explanation she provided it was mentioned the aircraft had to be used in commerce A neighbor over flying my property would probably not be involved in commerce. Definitely not worth the $$$ to find out for sure.

Offline Steve Fitton

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Steve

Offline RC Storick

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Re: Uh-oh, Drones...what you can't do to them. Thanks, FAA...
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2015, 06:38:32 AM »
What I don't get is if a drone is defined as a aircraft by the FAA then why are they allowed to fly without a flight plan in a neighborhood below 400 foot? Seems as if it was defined as a aircraft then the same would be for full size. Could a Cessna land on my street? Either it is a aircraft or it is not. Which is it? Can't have it booth ways.

I say dump the drones. AMA should steer as far away as it can but you know that wont happen. Follow the money.
AMA 12366

Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Uh-oh, Drones...what you can't do to them. Thanks, FAA...
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2015, 06:50:00 AM »
What I don't get is if a drone is defined as a aircraft by the FAA then why are they allowed to fly without a flight plan in a neighborhood below 400 foot? Seems as if it was defined as a aircraft then the same would be for full size. Could a Cessna land on my street? Either it is a aircraft or it is not. Which is it? Can't have it booth ways.

I say dump the drones. AMA should steer as far away as it can but you know that wont happen. Follow the money.
Thank You.

Dave
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Offline Bill Johnson

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Re: Uh-oh, Drones...what you can't do to them. Thanks, FAA...
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2015, 06:56:25 AM »
"Thanks, FAA..."

Without the FAA, there would be absolutely no regulation of the operation of drones. Yet it's popular here to complain about the FAA and AMA as if they invented them and sent them out to terrorize the public.  n1

The FAA regulates ALL US airspace by law. That's their job. I don't know if anyone here has read the "Know before you fly" guidelines but many municipalities across the US have codified them to protect citizens right to privacy.

I would suggest everyone concerned about drone operations read the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, Section 336. There's actually quite a bit of protection for modelers. But of bigger interest to me is:

By definition, a model aircraft must be “flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft.” Public Law 112-95, section 336(c)(2). (1) Based on the plain language of the statute, the FAA interprets this requirement to mean that: (1) The aircraft must be visible at all times to the operator; (2) that the operator must use his or her own natural vision (which includes vision corrected by standard eyeglasses or contact lenses) to observe the aircraft; and (3) people other than the operator may not be used in lieu of the operator for maintaining visual line of sight. Under the criteria above, visual line of sight would mean that the operator has an unobstructed view of the model aircraft. To ensure that the operator has the best view of the aircraft, the statutory requirement would preclude the use of vision-enhancing devices, such as binoculars, night vision goggles, powered vision magnifying devices, and goggles designed to provide a “first-person view” from the model. (2) Such devices would limit the operator's field of view thereby reducing his or her ability to see-and-avoid other aircraft in the area. Additionally, some of these devices could dramatically increase the distance at which an operator could see the aircraft, rendering the statutory visual-line-of-sight requirements meaningless. Finally, based on the plain language of the statute, which says that aircraft must be “flown within the visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft,” an operator could not rely on another person to satisfy the visual line of sight requirement. See id. (emphasis added). While the statute would not preclude using an observer to augment the safety of the operation, the operator must be able to view the aircraft at all times.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 10:34:38 AM by Bill Johnson »
Best Regards,
Bill

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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Uh-oh, Drones...what you can't do to them. Thanks, FAA...
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2015, 07:27:48 AM »
The problem is ( imho) many or most of those who purchase these things know no rules- or would care- and daily we are hearing of one problem or another.  The time may come some serious tragedy will occur and every entity associated with them will be blamed and likely sued.  The public already understands little distinction between a model airplane and a drone and will push to throw out the baby with the bath water.  AMA didn't invent them but is too eager to embrace them and I fear it could be a fatal attraction.

Dave
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Offline peabody

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Re: Uh-oh, Drones...what you can't do to them. Thanks, FAA...
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2015, 07:48:16 AM »
Best Buy is selling them by the dozen.....and their "Geek Squad" is clueless about operation and the AMA.

The problem is that for every dangerous incident, more uses are found for them....the good is outweighing the bad.

Have fun!

Offline Bill Burton

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Re: Uh-oh, Drones...what you can't do to them. Thanks, FAA...
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2015, 08:10:27 AM »
Well I guess I will throw my two cents worth in also.  The only reason the AMA has embraced these "things". Is because of the advertising revenue they create.  To me, they are not model aircraft, I don't know what they are, but to me they have no business being lumped in with model aircraft.  

Others have stated this and I totally agree, eventually there will be an accident where someone gets injured or worse and the hammer will be lowered on all of us.  AMA has MADE  a terrible mistake by embracing these things.  If I flew fixed wing RC planes or even model helicopters, I would be very worried.

I do see some good commercial uses if operated under some enforced guidelines but other than that, they are just a dangerous toy in the wrong hands.  

I DO NOT want these things to be banned because you then enter the same mind sets of these nuts who think by banning guns you are going to solve evil in the world.  I honestly don't know at this point what the answer is.  There is nothing right now that would prevent a terrorist from arming one of these things and flying it into a crowd at Disney World and detonating it.  

BB

Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Uh-oh, Drones...what you can't do to them. Thanks, FAA...
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2015, 08:51:25 AM »
I wouldn't have an answer either other than having a 'professional' class of these that requires training and a special license for those practical uses like farming and policing but the rest be limited in range to no more than a few hundred feet before control is lost and power cut.  That might help but not solve everything.

Dave
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Uh-oh, Drones...what you can't do to them. Thanks, FAA...
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2015, 12:20:34 PM »
Hey the so called people that flew the planes into the Twin Towers had formal training in flying planes.
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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Uh-oh, Drones...what you can't do to them. Thanks, FAA...
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2015, 12:33:02 PM »
Yes that's true but I don't really think that terrorists are the concern here- it's the everyday idiots who think it's cool to put these things up in the landing pattern at the airport.  Or the ones in California who got in the way so that the firefighting planes couldn't work in the drop zone.  Or maybe news media BECOMING the news instead of covering the news.  It will be our own brand of home grown stupidity that will the culprit.  Some of the larger ones are capable of beheading an innocent bystander.  That's what came to my mind when there was talk about using them for package delivery.  One will take out a kid or a dog running into it.

Dave
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Offline Steve Fitton

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Re: Uh-oh, Drones...what you can't do to them. Thanks, FAA...
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2015, 06:17:00 AM »
Read the thread on stuka stunt that has David's and Brett's communication with AMA regarding pending legislation in California over drones.  Lots of good stuff.

I have to agree with the premise of AMA needing to divorce itself from quadcopters.  There is *no way* to control people when the only modeling skill they need is to be able to operate a computer.  A midair with an airliner is inevitable at this point, and it would be better if AMA could say: "Not my circus, not my monkeys" when they round up the offender.
Steve

Offline Mike Keville

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Re: Uh-oh, Drones...what you can't do to them. Thanks, FAA...
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2015, 07:17:20 PM »
In case it's escaped anyone's attention, those things are NOT 'model airplanes'.

Period!
FORMER member, "Academy of Multi-rotors & ARFs".

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Uh-oh, Drones...what you can't do to them. Thanks, FAA...
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2015, 07:37:51 PM »
In case it's escaped anyone's attention, those things are NOT 'model airplanes'.

Period!


   A point that David, Ted, and I all made to Lawrence Tougas. I wouldn't rehash it here, but try this thread:

http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=394262&mesg_id=394262

  The "right" that the AMA appears to be defending is the right to overfly non-participants in areas in which they have no permission to fly.

     Brett

Offline jim gilmore

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Re: Uh-oh, Drones...what you can't do to them. Thanks, FAA...
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2015, 10:58:09 PM »
In case it's escaped anyone's attention, those things are NOT 'model airplanes'.

Period!

Not to get in to a war on semantic but what would you say they are ???
Model Flying machine ?
Miniature flying machine  ?
expensive toy flying machine ?
Is your statement just that they are NOT a replica of a full sized aircraft ?
Then what was the flying lawnmower and why did no one ever b--- and moan over them ????
If tomorrow a company came out with a 3d printed model of a b-52 that could do a full pattern on 40 foot lines with real 5 foot corners this forum would literally implode.
I'm just curious because I think many seem to hate the ease with with this new type of craft has attracted attention and they seem to feel threatened somehow....
I do think that the is a big problem with them needing to be policed in some way.

Offline Bill Burton

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Re: Uh-oh, Drones...what you can't do to them. Thanks, FAA...
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2015, 06:51:56 AM »
This debate over Quad Copters will continue for years.  Whether they are good or evil is determined by whose hands are controlling it.  Because of the onboard camera and the ability of the operator to hover one of these things over a crowded football stadium without being able to actually see the thing, we have an entirely new scenario of a flying machine.  Model airplanes and helicopters are operated within the sight of the person controlling them.

All I know for sure is that these things are different and are an accident looking for a place to happen.

BB


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