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Author Topic: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?  (Read 947 times)

Offline TCL

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Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« on: February 19, 2021, 07:04:46 PM »
Gah!  HB~> HB~> HB~> HB~>  I have been so meticulous building a Gieseke Nobler that my brother gifted me. And I'm capable enough usually. However, I ran the leadouts out of the wrong panel and the outer wing panel is 1" longer (25 1/2") than the inner panel (24 1/2").

I can correct the problem, but it would be a few days worth of work for me. I'm glad to do it if this is going to be critical to how well the model flies. I'm doing my best on this model (which isn't fantastic, but is "good"), and I don't want to compromise much on how it flies, although I don't ever plan to compete.

Thanks for any advice. Tom





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Online 944_Jim

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2021, 07:12:45 PM »
Is it too late to build the plane for clockwise operation?

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2021, 07:14:38 PM »
I can correct the problem, but it would be a few days worth of work for me. I'm glad to do it if this is going to be critical to how well the model flies. I'm doing my best on this model (which isn't fantastic, but is "good"), and I don't want to compromise much on how it flies, although I don't ever plan to compete.

   You need to fix it.

     Brett

Online James Lee

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2021, 07:15:44 PM »
Tom
It will fly in that configuration.    BUT, You will never be happy!
The sad truth is, a redo is in order....    At this point, it is do-able.   Take a deep breath.
Jim

Offline TCL

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2021, 07:21:35 PM »
Thanks! Now that I have calmed down a bit and cut a bit of sheeting away to remember how everything looks in there, I don't think it will be so bad. I can get the bellcrank turned around and run a new set of leadout lines. Thanks for giving it to me straight. I would rather put in the work now than have a model that doesn't fly well.

I will abandon the adjustable leadout guide and use it as weight for the (now) outer wing panel. Any recommendation for an adjustable leadout box since I will need a new one.

Thanks again. Soooo frustrating because I am being careful and going slow, but I know that mistakes happen. There are plenty of stories of people building full-scale homebuilt aircraft in their basement and then being unable to get them out the door.


Offline TCL

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2021, 07:25:10 PM »
For my understanding, what is the purpose of having the inner panel be longer? I have a decent lay understanding of aeronautics, but can't figure this one out.

And thanks for the words of wisdom, James. That's exactly what I needed to do - take a deep breath. It's not as bad as I thought.

Online Howard Rush

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2021, 07:38:01 PM »
I do this all the time.
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Offline TCL

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2021, 07:42:30 PM »
Is it too late to build the plane for clockwise operation?

Is there any drawback/harm in clockwise rotation? Interestingly, I'm left-handed, but have never flown with my left hand. I might enjoy that and I've been away from CL for so long (just getting back after 30 years). I definitely have more coordination in my left hand, but just learned counter-clockwise and with my right hand as a kid and continued.

It will be easier if I go with clockwise rotation as I won't have to remount the bellcrank floor.

Thanks for the advice and support.

Offline Gordon Van Tighem

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2021, 08:11:28 PM »
For my understanding, what is the purpose of having the inner panel be longer? I have a decent lay understanding of aeronautics, but can't figure this one out.

And thanks for the words of wisdom, James. That's exactly what I needed to do - take a deep breath. It's not as bad as I thought.
Theory is the outboard wing is flying faster, so shorter wing section less lift, plane flies level.
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Offline Gordon Van Tighem

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2021, 08:13:18 PM »
Is there any drawback/harm in clockwise rotation? Interestingly, I'm left-handed, but have never flown with my left hand. I might enjoy that and I've been away from CL for so long (just getting back after 30 years). I definitely have more coordination in my left hand, but just learned counter-clockwise and with my right hand as a kid and continued.

It will be easier if I go with clockwise rotation as I won't have to remount the bellcrank floor.

Thanks for the advice and support.
.......but the longer wing will be outboard. Best to change it around.
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Offline TCL

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2021, 08:16:43 PM »
Theory is the outboard wing is flying faster, so shorter wing section less lift, plane flies level.

Oh! I should have figured that out. I am a full-scale sailplane pilot and know all about adverse yaw from the extra drag the outside wing creates when banked in a turn because it is flying faster and generating more lift. Thanks!

Offline TCL

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2021, 08:21:36 PM »
.......but the longer wing will be outboard. Best to change it around.

Thanks, but I did mean with the longer wing inboard. If I go counterclockwise, the plywood bellcrank mount is now on the top with the bellcrank hanging beneath it. Perhaps it doesn't matter since this is the position in inverted flight. If I go clockwise, the bellcrank is already mounted the "normal" way.

Offline TCL

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2021, 08:22:43 PM »
I do this all the time.

Thanks for the support. I'm feeling a lot better now and can see that the repair isn't as extensive as I thought.

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2021, 08:22:46 PM »
Is there any drawback/harm in clockwise rotation? Interestingly, I'm left-handed, but have never flown with my left hand. I might enjoy that and I've been away from CL for so long (just getting back after 30 years). I definitely have more coordination in my left hand, but just learned counter-clockwise and with my right hand as a kid and continued.

It will be easier if I go with clockwise rotation as I won't have to remount the bellcrank floor.

Thanks for the advice and support.

     You know, you do present an interesting solution, just for the sake of conversation. The original Nobler was flown clockwise by George Aldrich, was it not? And since you are left handed that may feel more natural since you are returning after a very long lay off.. But in realty, you may find it more difficult than you think since you have learned the other way.. The longer wing is inboard to offset the difference in lift between the two wings. The outboard wing actually flies faster and generates a bit more lift, so the inboard wing is longer to make it as even as it can.  Through the years we have seen all sorts of different lengths of offset ranging from 1/2" to over two inches or more on some old time models. But like it has been suggested, just step back, take a couple of breaths and plan out your repair, and take it step by step. Write it down as you think about it and then execute the plan. Any trimming help you will need will be from people that are counter clock wise flyers and if you ever desire to sell or give the model away, there are more potential buyers for a counter clockwise model.
   And please!! Be VERY assured that you are NOT the only one that has done this!!

   Type at you later,
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2021, 08:43:03 PM »
     You know, you do present an interesting solution, just for the sake of conversation. The original Nobler was flown clockwise by George Aldrich, was it not? And since you are left handed that may feel more natural since you are returning after a very long lay off..

   The leadouts are in the short wing, regardless of which way you fly it.

     Brett

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2021, 09:08:04 PM »
For my understanding, what is the purpose of having the inner panel be longer? I have a decent lay understanding of aeronautics, but can't figure this one out.

    The outboard wing flies faster than the inboard because it is flying in a circle. Figure 66 feet from the center of rotation to the center of the fuselage, and a 5 foot wingspan. The outboard wing flies 2pi71 feet (446 feet) and the inboard flies 2p61 feet (383 feet), or the outboard tip is going 16% faster. At any load factor, that would create more lift on the outboard than the inboard, so you want to reduce the size of the outboard wing to even it out.

     The right value for a 35-sized airplane is about 1/2-3/4", but you can make it work about as well from about 0 differential to maybe  1 1/8" - not -1".

     Brett

Offline Motorman

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2021, 09:34:37 PM »
If the bellcrank platform is on the top you might have a problem getting the push rod to the flaps.
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Online 944_Jim

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2021, 09:55:00 PM »
Considering "US" normal rotation (counter-clockwise), the typical bellcrank platform is mounted low in the wing...until the plane goes inverted. Yet the linkages still work fine hanging from the platform during inverted/clockwise operation.

In this instance  build the rest of the control system upside down for clockwise operation...it will work out like "normal" when the plane goes inverted back to CCW.

This would be a good time to knock together a test plane on the cheap. Then test how flying Roundie-Roundie " in the wrong direction (CW)" feels. A full-size sign-plastic Nobler built to your model's outlines should be able to fly on the same powerplant/tank...maybe not performing stunts, but it ought to fly.

Also there is occasionally discussion about how the prop turning "the wrong way" on the engine helps twist/roll the plane out of the circle and against the lines...such that Cox reedies have been known to use a right-handed prop while the engine "ran backwards." In my "alternative fix" this is already done by the engine factory (left-hand prop on clockwise plane).

Offline TCL

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2021, 10:09:18 PM »
If the bellcrank platform is on the top you might have a problem getting the push rod to the flaps.

I figured that out as I was cutting things out to get access. Thanks, though. It's nearly set for rebuilding. I'll set it aside for a few days and work on the fuselage so that I can be patient. I probably added 20 hours or so to the project (I'm not a fast builder), so not too bad really.

Offline TCL

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2021, 10:13:44 PM »
So, I dove in there, cut out everything cleanly, and it won't take me any longer to replace the parts than it did to install them originally. Thanks so much, everyone.

One last thought, though. Would a potentially good solution have been to shorten the outside wing and make a "Clipped-Wing Nobler ;D", or would the extra wing loading have been a significant issue? Past that point now, but it dawned on me that this would have taken me maybe two hours to do.

Offline TCL

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2021, 10:25:01 PM »
     But in realty, you may find it more difficult than you think since you have learned the other way..

Thanks. I came to this conclusion. I spent countless hours of flying counter-clockwise with my right hand (even though I'm left-handed) as a kid. That muscle-memory is ingrained in me and it would probably be a lot harder than I think to go against it. 

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2021, 10:38:13 PM »
So, I dove in there, cut out everything cleanly, and it won't take me any longer to replace the parts than it did to install them originally. Thanks so much, everyone.

One last thought, though. Would a potentially good solution have been to shorten the outside wing and make a "Clipped-Wing Nobler ;D", or would the extra wing loading have been a significant issue? Past that point now, but it dawned on me that this would have taken me maybe two hours to do.

    That would have been better than leaving it alone, however, it would increase the wing loading and lower the aspect ratio (which is already low) and create more drag, too. The Nobler, stock, is on the edge of what seems to be a cliff in terms of aspect ratio - at some point, tiny changes to the aspect ratio ave dramatic effects on the drag.

     Brett

Offline Trostle

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2021, 11:05:56 PM »
Quote from: TCL on Today at 07:42:30 PM

    Is there any drawback/harm in clockwise rotation? Interestingly, I'm left-handed, but have never flown with my left hand.

   
     You know, you do present an interesting solution, just for the sake of conversation. The original Nobler was flown clockwise by George Aldrich, was it not? And since you are left handed that may feel more natural since you are returning after a very long lay off.. But in realty, you may find it more difficult than you think since you have learned the other way..
   Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

My comments here do not really address the situation about the wing being built differently than had been planned.  However, the comments about flying clockwise or counter-clockwise and which hand to use are interesting.

As Dan pointed out above, George Aldrich flew clockwise.  Actually, George could fly the pattern with either hand and could fly and flew the pattern either clockwise or counter-clockwise.  Gene Schaeffer, one of the best pilots to never win the Nats but did make the US team at least once flew clockwise.  Gerry Phelps is another one of the best pilots to have never won the Nats.  Gerry Phelps was 3rd in 69 and was on the winning US Team in 70 where he placed 4th.  There have been some other notable pilots who flew clockwise.  Then, there is Bart Klapinski, National Champion in '67 and continues to be a top pilot to this day flies counter-clockwise with his left hand.

Keith

Online Dave Hull

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2021, 11:46:38 PM »
I'm a big fan of "fix it and make it right." Otherwise, I'm never happy with the result, and who wants to fly a plane that always reminds you you screwed up? Once you fix it, however, you can look at it and say "sure I made a mistake, but it is fixed right!"

You can purchase another L/O guide or make your own, depending on your tools available. You can make all of the pieces out of 1/8" birch plywood. A couple of brass eyelets in the slider would be nice. You should be able to steal the slider and hardware out of the one you already have, although it may take one clean slice to get it out?

On the subject or switching back and forth on your flight direction, it is my opinion that only a few would ever get good at this. The rest will crash. Repeatedly. I have been gifted wrecks by guys that thought they could only to find out there is no time to think and push back the long-ingrained training and muscle memory. My thought: pick one way and stick with it. I see no advantage whether right or left handed in the direction of travel. Except in racing, when being a lefty makes flying for everyone in the circle a lot harder. Unless they are all Leftys.

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Offline John Park

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2021, 04:01:11 AM »
Quote from an interview with Bob Gieseke by AeroModeller:
"...my new ship is 48 3/4" wingspan (standard kit has 50" span) and my friend Joe Musumci also has a shorter wing version that flies equally well, particularly in the wind."
Maybe shortening the 'outboard' wing of your model might indeed be a viable option - though of course the model referred to above probably did have 'conventional' asymmetry.
You want to make 'em nice, else you get mad lookin' at 'em!

Offline Leonard Bourel

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2021, 06:11:03 AM »
I can fully relate to your original frustration and that sinking feeling that comes over you when you realize you have made a catastrophic mistake When I built my first Nobler I got to the stage where it was time to glue in the wing I was 18 years old and really excited to see my new Nobler Together I mixed up a big bunch of 15 minute epoxy, glued the wing in checked it carefully for alignment I was really happy with it and went for lunch When I came back the glue had set up nicely and I picked up the plane and my heart just sunk as I realized I glued the wing in UPSIDE DOWN!!!!!!! I was in tears as I sat there on the floor trying to figure out what to do I spent many hrs cutting it apart and putting it right. I wish you all the best to make it right

Offline Motorman

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2021, 06:15:02 AM »
In this instance  build the rest of the control system upside down

I think you would need some S bends in the push rod for that to work.


Motorman 8)
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Offline TCL

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2021, 06:51:17 AM »
I'm a big fan of "fix it and make it right." Otherwise, I'm never happy with the result, and who wants to fly a plane that always reminds you you screwed up? Once you fix it, however, you can look at it and say "sure I made a mistake, but it is fixed right!"

The Divot

You're absolutely right as I'm sure everyone else on the forum agrees. Once I took a handful of deep breaths, I could see that fixing it correctly was the only satisfying solution and it would always have bothered me to cobble something together that was less than that when I'm trying to do my very best on this model. I used to cobble together repairs when I flew slow combat, but that was with a model that I knew had a very short lifespan left.

Offline TCL

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2021, 06:53:18 AM »
I can fully relate to your original frustration and that sinking feeling that comes over you when you realize you have made a catastrophic mistake When I built my first Nobler I got to the stage where it was time to glue in the wing I was 18 years old and really excited to see my new Nobler Together I mixed up a big bunch of 15 minute epoxy, glued the wing in checked it carefully for alignment I was really happy with it and went for lunch When I came back the glue had set up nicely and I picked up the plane and my heart just sunk as I realized I glued the wing in UPSIDE DOWN!!!!!!! I was in tears as I sat there on the floor trying to figure out what to do I spent many hrs cutting it apart and putting it right. I wish you all the best to make it right

Ouch! Thanks for sharing. That would have been a very painful experience indeed.

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2021, 08:11:25 AM »
You should set up to fly counter-clockwise, otherwise your launcher will be trying to figure out why the landing gear is upside down.....

Online Dan Berry

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2021, 08:38:27 AM »
You're absolutely right as I'm sure everyone else on the forum agrees. Once I took a handful of deep breaths, I could see that fixing it correctly was the only satisfying solution and it would always have bothered me to cobble something together that was less than that when I'm trying to do my very best on this model. I used to cobble together repairs when I flew slow combat, but that was with a model that I knew had a very short lifespan left.

The difference between a good carpenter and a bad carpenter is that the good one does a better job of hiding mistakes.
The same is true with our planes.

Offline Peter in Fairfax, VA

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2021, 09:19:36 AM »
A couple of thoughts.

With current counter-clockwise convention, isn't being a lefty a benefit, as it is easier to whip?

Isn't another aspect of the inboard/outboard thing is the fuselage creating an area of dead space just outboard of center? 

Online 944_Jim

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2021, 10:15:54 AM »
You may want to ask Mike Londke. I seem to remember he flies counter-clockwise and left-handed from his YouTube BHM Mossie video:

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2021, 10:48:23 AM »
I have mulled this over since you posted it.  No way you come out ahead short of removing the center section planking and doing it over.  Anything else leaves you with an aerodynamic issue or a control issue.

However, you could reroute the leadouts into the shorter wing with a small cutout and add some to the inboard (former shorter wing) and offset the fuselage a bit to get a slightly larger wing but that would be as much trouble as fixing the center.  The later versions actually had a larger outboard flap as is the case with a lot of current designs.   I have built a Nobler with equal wings and it flew just fine.  1/2" movement of the fuselage gives you a 1" differential and you could easily adjust the flaps to fit.  That all depends on whether or not you built the wing upside down or just routed the leadouts to the wrong side.

You mentioned the tips.  Keep the adjustable, you will need it.  Cut them off and flip them and if you do pull the BC floor put it in the scrap bin and put in a floating. 

I am probably too late since you have most likely started on your journey to fix it but rest assured, we have all done something like this and the ones that won't admit to it have probably done it twice.

Good luck - Ken

I missed your post #20 so much of what I said is history.  To address your wing issue, shortening the outboard would be the same as sliding the fuselage 1/2" outboard.  The offset is more to move the weight closer to the center of lift than anything else.  The further out you go the less tip weight you need within reason.  If you go too far (All American Sr for example) the drag at low speeds will make it roll in you and that isn't fun.

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Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2021, 11:03:55 AM »
A couple of thoughts.

With current counter-clockwise convention, isn't being a lefty a benefit, as it is easier to whip?

Isn't another aspect of the inboard/outboard thing is the fuselage creating an area of dead space just outboard of center?
With the problems I have had since coming back with the Reverse Wingover I would kill to be left handed.  For the rest of the pattern I don't see much difference once you learn it.  We have 2-3 lefties in our flying circle that can fly the flaps off of most of the righties.

Ken
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Offline TCL

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2021, 11:25:00 AM »
Thanks for all of the terrific advice and support, everyone!  H^^  I'm all done with the teardown and ready to start rebuilding. I used as much care as possible taking everything apart, with special attention to remove anything that would add weight to the rebuild. I had to avoid one small area because I wasn't sure I could get it out without compromising the wing spar, but that's it.

It will take me two days or so to add everything back, but I will feel so satisfied knowing that my Nobler will be back to spec.

For me, this is a big project. I have built a lot of kits, but mostly more modern ones that require quite as much expertise. I'll be covering in Monokote and will still probably have 250 hours or so in the build. I know that's nothing for many of you, especially with the incredible paint jobs, but it's a lot for me. I'm retired now and it's a completely different experience not having to think about work emails piling up while I'm building. Very satisfying.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2021, 11:54:34 AM »
This thread made me think of a couple of my local model plane heroes who are no longer with us.  They could fly the pattern with either hand.   They were Lew Woolard (Silver Fox) and Marvin Denny (Big Iron).  In fact we watched Marvin in a race take off with right hand and land with his left.  Wouldn't work now with the safety thong requirement. D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2021, 03:02:56 PM »
This thread made me think of a couple of my local model plane heroes who are no longer with us.  They could fly the pattern with either hand.   They were Lew Woolard (Silver Fox) and Marvin Denny (Big Iron).  In fact we watched Marvin in a race take off with right hand and land with his left.  Wouldn't work now with the safety thong requirement. D>K
Interesting that you would bring that up.  We did a lot of "off hand" flying when I was younger and flying a lot of combat.  It was Pre-Thong and you needed to know how to switch hands to get out of line tangles.  I flew a couple of patterns that way and decided that I would never do it again unless I had to!

ken
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If it is not broke, don't fix it.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2021, 07:47:08 PM »
Gah!  HB~> HB~> HB~> HB~>  I have been so meticulous building a Gieseke Nobler that my brother gifted me. And I'm capable enough usually. However, I ran the leadouts out of the wrong panel and the outer wing panel is 1" longer (25 1/2") than the inner panel (24 1/2").

I can correct the problem, but it would be a few days worth of work for me. I'm glad to do it if this is going to be critical to how well the model flies. I'm doing my best on this model (which isn't fantastic, but is "good"), and I don't want to compromise much on how it flies, although I don't ever plan to compete.

Thanks for any advice. Tom

G*dam , just whack of the outer outer bay . Some of BOBs Knoblers were 48 inch span .

5/8 assymetrys considered normal . 1 1/4 would be a bit much . One Inch on that size ship o.k. / good . Though SYMETRICAL spans / Equal Each Side would work well , with five ton ( or two ounces or more )
 TIP WEIGHT.
Wotengineyagotinit ?

Nufer Fing , He often ? ? ? used 58 foot eye to eye lines . 55 foot of heavyweight lines steer well in howling gales , as they dont act like rubber bands , as some scrawny things tend to do .

WHOOPS. o.k. ive read the rest , or some, NOW . Such is Life . !  H^^

Online Dave Hull

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Re: Ugh! Mistake Building Gieseke Nobler. Advice, Please?
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2021, 08:25:01 PM »
Doc,

The rules at the NATS for control line racing do not require the use of a wrist strap. The reason is that they can cause as much danger in that situation as they might prevent. It is covered in the CL General section. (And not overiden in the racing section.)

Of course, your local rules may differ. I know I have flown it both ways since the FAI tried it a few years ago and we tried to get some experience with it.

The Divot



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