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Author Topic: Tutor II alignment  (Read 2930 times)

Offline Jim Oliver

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Tutor II alignment
« on: July 03, 2006, 03:31:33 PM »
Hey guys,

I have assembled two Tutor II's recently, with very careful attention to alignment of all components.  With the models fixed on a level surface, the flaps measure the same from the surface to the T.E.

The problem is, both models fly upright with outboard wing low and inverted with outboard wing high.

One model uses the stock flap joiner and one uses a 1/8 in. Brodak bushing horn--I can't bend the Brodak horn without risk of breaking something and the stock joiner won't hold a tweek--it springs back every time.

Any simple solutions ???


Thanks,

Jim Oliver
Jim Oliver
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Offline sadams714441

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Re: Tutor II alignment
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2006, 04:09:53 PM »
I put a Tom Morris system in mine works great
Steve Adams

Offline frank carlisle

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Re: Tutor II alignment
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2006, 05:56:09 PM »
OR................you could cut the end of the outboard flap and use 3 inches of it for a trim tab.
Frank Carlisle

Offline Steve Scott

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Re: Tutor II alignment
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2006, 06:33:09 PM »
The problem is, both models fly upright with outboard wing low and inverted with outboard wing high.
Jim Oliver

I have one which exhibits the same trait.  Another one in our club has a 4" length of fuel tubing attached to the underside of the outboard wing near the flap hinge line at the trailing edge tip.  They'll use tape to get the length of the tubing right then permanently attach it with RTV silicon adhesive.

Seems to work fine but they say the tubing tends to fill up with oil.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Tutor II alignment
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2006, 08:26:35 PM »
I like the idea of a peice of tubing.  Maybe a peice of dowel rod or a unusable shank of a machine screw to plug it.  John Bender has already done the cut outboard flap on his new Tower F@B plane.  Three inches cut off at outboard end of flap.  Then glued back with 3/16 of an inch droop in it.  Plane flies level.  He also put a Rabe Rudder on the plane also as it kept getting light during some maneuvers.  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: Tutor II alignment
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2006, 08:48:52 PM »
Thanks for the suggestions---I have "built" three TF ARFs; one Flite Streak and the two Tutors.  All three flew with outboard wing low when upright.  If I didn't know better, I would think I was doing something wrong!! 

I got the Flite Streak "fixed" by twisting the wing while applying heat gun.  Because of the wing structure on the Tutors, I couldn't get the wing to hold a "fix" nor could I get the flaps tweeked.

My Cardinal flys straight, even after two rebuilds, and the little Sig Akromaster flys straight, as did my Twister (RIP).

I will try some of these suggestions. 

Thanks again,

Jim Oliver
Jim Oliver
AMA 18475

Offline Ted Fancher

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Re: Tutor II alignment
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2006, 11:19:51 PM »
If my fading photographic memory serves, I believe the Tutor has a comparatively low wing configuration.  With a side mounted engine somewhat above the leadouts it is likely the ship will have a problem with the vertical location of the CG relative to the point of tether.  If so, the bank out upright/bank in inverted is predictable.

Ted

Offline Greg L Bahrman

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Re: Tutor II alignment
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2006, 11:30:21 AM »
If my fading photographic memory serves, the bank out upright/bank in inverted is predictable.
Ted

And the fix is....... or is there one, or move leadouts down or maybe move the wing up before it's installed like some have been doing on the Brodak P40 ARF ???
Greg Bahrman, AMA 312522
Simi Valley, Ca.

Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: Tutor II alignment
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2006, 05:56:33 PM »
If I should, in a weak moment, build another Tutor II, I would move the wing up.
Don't know how much, would depend on tank clearance.

My first one was assembled with much TLC, a 3/4 inch doubler from nose ring back to about 1/3 of the wing, Ultra Cote covering (4 inch yellow/red checkerboard on the bottom of wing/flaps and stab/elevator) and a vintage MVVS Rear induction 51.

After all that work, I can say that I love the engine--some good has come from all the effort.  The MVVS turns a 12x6 Zinger or APC at 8500 for 8 minutes on four ounces of fuel.

Jim Oliver
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Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: Tutor II alignment
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2006, 06:25:16 AM »
Ty,
A 1 inch strip of lead might help! n~

Jim
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Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: Tutor II alignment
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2006, 08:01:10 AM »
I understood--but the issue isn't area, it's weight distribution (I think!).

Mounting the engine inverted would help, but not easy to do and probably not worth the effort on a finished Tutor.

I will try a couple of aerodynamic "cheats" this weekend and report results later.  ;D

Jim Oliver

Jim Oliver
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Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: Tutor II alignment
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2006, 06:58:55 PM »
Guys,

I have good news and bad news!!

The good news is: I cut a 4 inch x 1 inch piece of 1/4 balsa, tapered it like a piece of T.E. stock.  I taped it to the bottom of the outboard flap at a position where the flap was just over 1 inch wide.  The taper was toward the leading edge of the flap with the 1/4 inch thick edge just flush with the T.E. of the flap.

On the first flight the wings were almost exactly level;  probably could have used slightly more tip weight to get wings level upright and inverted.

Happy for now!!

The bad news:  After my very first attempts at the reverse wing over (no sweat, nice high recovery), I decided to try some square insides....   ::)

Do you guys know just how little time there is for indecision when the plane is in the vertical downline?  ~^

Anyway, I won't give up. 

Later,

Jim Oliver
Jim Oliver
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Tutor II alignment
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2006, 08:33:59 PM »
As I told my brother years ago when we were picking up pieces.  Don't change your mind during a maneuver.  Hope the damage isn't too bad.  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: Tutor II alignment
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2006, 09:00:35 PM »
The damage to the Tutor is terminal--my ego will recover (eventually)!! ;D

Actually, I could repair it, but I can assemble another one lots quicker and right now I need to develop flying skills, not repairing skills!
 
Jim Oliver
Jim Oliver
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Alan Hahn

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Re: Tutor II alignment
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2006, 09:13:06 PM »
If you want to add some weight to the bottom of the Tutor (or the Brodak  P40ARF for that matter), consider using heavier wheels. Those old ones are pretty heavy. Seems like a simple option to me. With the length of the gear, it wouldn't take a whole lot to offset the top heaviness. Likewise a heavy muffler hanging down low also will counteract the top heaviness.

Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: Tutor II alignment
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2006, 07:21:12 AM »
Ty,
The entire fuse is/was about as hollow as possible--not built to withstand any sort of impact.  Not easy to repair, either--unless you like 1000 piece puzzles.

I don't think I will build another Tutor, I like the way my Cardinal ARF flies; even after two rebuilds it is better than the Tutor.

Jim Oliver
Jim Oliver
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Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: Tutor II alignment
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2006, 06:05:39 PM »
I really dislike trim tabs, a personal thing... On any plastic covered wing it is fairly easy to just heat and tweek.. Eliminates an unslightly trim tab and fixes the problem instead of using a bandaid.

Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: Tutor II alignment
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2006, 09:04:04 PM »
Bob,

Tried the heat/twist on both my Tutors.  Wing structure too strong for the covering to overpower it. 

Heat/twist worked fine on the Flite Streak ARF bu not on the Tutors.

Jim
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Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: Tutor II alignment
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2006, 02:59:21 PM »
For those who might care,  the second  of my Tutor II's responded favorably to the trial of the 1/4 x 1 x 4 inch wedge on the bottom of the outboard flap.

Now, the outboard wing is a little high upright and inverted--that, I can fix, if I can keep it in one piece long enough.

Cheers,

Jim

Jim Oliver
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Offline Steve Scott

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Re: Tutor II alignment
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2006, 08:47:17 PM »
Do you guys know just how little time there is for indecision when the plane is in the vertical downline?  ~^
Not only that, but when your arm follows the model through it's different altitudes, somehow on the outside square my hand was staying up high when the model was diving at full power toward the asphalt.

The tarmac at the old Boeing Space Center had no less than three dents from my combination of those two traits.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Tutor II alignment
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2006, 08:24:24 PM »
Pattern Student,  if you are complentating a second airplane to fly, you might consider the Brodak Oriental ARF or ARC.   Mine with Brodak 40 is one sweet flying airplane.   Just remember to beef up gear mount considerably.  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.


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