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Author Topic: TT 11x4.5 props  (Read 6319 times)

Online Motorman

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2018, 06:41:11 AM »
Akihiro, Please show us a way to buy from Yoshioka and we will do it. Do they sell direct, is there a dealer we can call that speaks English?
There will be a sunny day and we will fly our airplanes.


Offline Harold Brewer

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #51 on: January 12, 2018, 10:02:47 AM »
Rick -

        Put me down for eight props.

Regards,

Brew   H^^

Offline Rick Bollinger

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2018, 03:21:17 PM »
Akihiro Danjo I spent quite a bit of time trying to contacting them a while back with no luck.
Rick Bollinger
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Offline George Grossardt

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2018, 06:21:17 AM »
Iíll take a pack of the 11.5 and a pack of the 12.5. Total of 12.

Thanks for doing this. 

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2018, 12:26:05 PM »
Akihiro has made this claim of counter fitting before and I do not doubt his claim

But  each time he has been asked to provide a reliable source to buy the real deal props....

I spent way too may google searchs

I got in on the first Rick buy and what he sent me work very well

This new buy for me is to have a good supply on hand...I still break props

I do not really care what Asian companies fight with each other over copy right or patent infringement

If Akihiro will please publish a good place to purchase Yoshioka props...do so...or ...oh well the rest of my thought is very rude

"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline Akihiro Danjo

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #55 on: January 13, 2018, 06:48:58 PM »
After my last post here, I got a message from whom I had thought he must be one of the best person to deal the props.
I informed him about Yoshioka's contact. So now I hope things go well.
Aki

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2018, 07:54:29 AM »
After my last post here, I got a message from whom I had thought he must be one of the best person to deal the props.
I informed him about Yoshioka's contact. So now I hope things go well.
Aki


    This sounds like a good way to go. Takes the pressure off Rick Bollinger a little bit if it all works out. I'm still in for the same order of 6 of each, 11-4.5 and 12.5-5.5. Good luck on the contacts.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2018, 04:24:53 PM »
It would be great to have a source of the Yoshioka propellers in the USA! Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy!  y1 Steve
In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.

In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General Mattis.

Offline Bill Sequira

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #58 on: January 22, 2018, 07:30:19 PM »
Please add Bill Sequira to the list for a bag (5) of 11X4.5 props.

Thank you.

Offline Phil Spillman

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #59 on: January 23, 2018, 11:02:05 AM »
Please put me don for 6 of the 11 X 4.5 props!

Thanks,

Phil Spillman
Phil Spillman

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2018, 11:09:09 AM »
Of course Yoshioka still have the right of the props and TT's are illegal.

   Just out of curiosity, what "rights" are they asserting? Patent? Trademark? Copyright? 

    Brett

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2018, 05:44:51 PM »
   Just out of curiosity, what "rights" are they asserting? Patent? Trademark? Copyright? 

    Brett

I've been wondering the same thing. Plus, model aeroplane propellers are commonly copied in FG or CF...that is, if they're any good to start with. One can get Bolly copies, for instance, pretty easily from several sources. Nobody seems to complain, least of all Bolly. It's not like Japan never copied a product designed and made in USA!  LL~ Steve
In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.

In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General Mattis.

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #62 on: January 23, 2018, 05:53:34 PM »
I've been wondering the same thing. Plus, model aeroplane propellers are commonly copied in FG or CF...that is, if they're any good to start with. One can get Bolly copies, for instance, pretty easily from several sources. Nobody seems to complain, least of all Bolly. It's not like Japan never copied a product designed and made in USA!  LL~ Steve
   

   There is no doubt that the hobby business, in particular, runs on copyright infringement that no one bothers to enforce.

    But I am straining to see the "illegal" part of this, it may be scummy, but I can't see a violation anywhere. Copyright (which has the craziest rules) seems to not apply, trademark, possibly but unlikely. If the design was patented, that would be a problem for the copies, but I can't see how you would make it sufficiently unique to not have prior art and I don't know of any attempt to defend the patent, which renders it moot.

     Brett

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #63 on: January 23, 2018, 06:09:13 PM »
The fishing industry is even worse than the model airplane industry, regarding copying other's products...far worse. Only a few lawsuits have been filed, and the backlash against those filing the suits has not helped their image or bottom line (a crappy fishing pun there...oops, another fishing pun of dubious quality).   :-[  Steve
In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.

In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General Mattis.

Online Tim Redelman

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #64 on: January 23, 2018, 07:42:24 PM »
Iíll take two six packs (12) of the 11x4,5 and one of the 12.5 x 5.5

Thanks Rick!

Tim

Online Motorman

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #65 on: January 23, 2018, 08:33:11 PM »
Don't know what the fuss is, these props look like a copy of a Tornado to me. Any chance we'll see them before spring?
There will be a sunny day and we will fly our airplanes.

Offline Akihiro Danjo

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #66 on: January 23, 2018, 09:49:19 PM »
Do you think it is fair a subcontractor make/sell the products without the permission of an orderer?
I don't think so.
I don't want to get involved with this anymore.
Aki

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #67 on: January 23, 2018, 11:03:52 PM »
Do you think it is fair a subcontractor make/sell the products without the permission of an orderer?

   No, but "unfair" is different from "illegal".

     Brett

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #68 on: January 24, 2018, 08:29:29 PM »
I'd almost expect subcontractor X to look for a new market for the product, if the original contractor Y decided not to sell said the product anymore. That aspect may even have been spelled out in the contract, in subsection G, or Z, the one about minimum purchase numbers required for exclusivity. A lot might depend on who owns or paid for the molds. If Y owned the molds, they should have retrieved them. If X owned the molds, then I wouldn't blame T for buying from X. Plus, the Yoshioka propellers were advertised as GRP, while the TT Cyclone propellers look to be pure vinyl or some such...breaks the same as the Bolly Clubman props. If Yoshioka was sharp, they would have...maybe did...sell the propeller rights to TT.   

In the end, is Yoshioka in business selling propellers or aren't they? If they're not, then get out of the way. International Business Law was not something I took while at UW, but realistically, I doubt if model airplane propellers would pay for the lawyers. Even one suitable lawyer.  D>K Steve 

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.

In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General Mattis.

Online Paul Taylor

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #69 on: January 25, 2018, 03:19:44 PM »
Here is my take on it.

I make 12 in wooden dowels. I'm not going to list a web link or tell you how to purchase them.
I do have a web site and it's in another language with no way to translate what your looking at or if you can even order them.
Nobody better copy and sell my idea!!
Paul

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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #70 on: January 26, 2018, 02:31:25 PM »
Thinking about this some more, it would seem that if Yoshioka called their propellers "Cyclone", and then Thunder Tiger bought the same propellers from China and continued with the name "Cyclone", then shame on Thunder Tiger, but otherwise, no. Changing the name to "Tornado" would probably be ok! Because, Grish Brothers are long gone and likely heirs wouldn't care one iota. Being in the Pacific, I guess "Typhoon" or "Monsoon" would be more appropriate than Tornado.

I seem to recall that Super Tigre tried to sue Thunder Tiger for using the "Tiger" part of the name. But since the spelling was different, Super Tigre lost the suit, or their lawyers told them they'd lose a suit in court or couldn't get a court to hear the case because of that. Happens all the time, judges say it's frivolous and that ends it. Judges are like that; even PA judges.   LL~ Steve
In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.

In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General Mattis.

Online Dane Martin

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #71 on: January 26, 2018, 03:44:44 PM »
Here is my take on it.

I make 12 in wooden dowels. I'm not going to list a web link or tell you how to purchase them.
I do have a web site and it's in another language with no way to translate what your looking at or if you can even order them.
Nobody better copy and sell my idea!!


(Drum rolls and trumpets playing a patriotic tune)
Now announcing, Dane's 12" wooden dowel service!

Offline Lyle Spiegel

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #72 on: January 26, 2018, 03:53:13 PM »
088 - 872 - 6420 (model shop Yoshioka)

088-856-5515 (Yoshioka Model Factory Dai Sho)     
http://www.rc-yoshioka.com/yoshioka-model-factory.html


I was fishing around on google and found above  contact info on Yoshioka. The google allowed translation to english. Could not find anything related to props of any size.


Lyle Spiegel AMA 19775

Online Arlan McKee

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #73 on: January 26, 2018, 05:51:42 PM »
I seem to recall that Super Tigre tried to sue Thunder Tiger for using the "Tiger" part of the name. But since the spelling was different, Super Tigre lost the suit, or their lawyers told them they'd lose a suit in court or couldn't get a court to hear the case because of that. Happens all the time, judges say it's frivolous and that ends it. Judges are like that; even PA judges.   LL~ Steve

Maybe that was the difference between American courts and those in other countries.
I remember that in he early 80''s  Radio Shack filed a lawsuit against  Auto Shack and forced them to change their name to Auto Zone.


Arlan

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #74 on: January 26, 2018, 07:09:28 PM »
Here is my take on it.

I make 12 in wooden dowels. I'm not going to list a web link or tell you how to purchase them.
I do have a web site and it's in another language with no way to translate what your looking at or if you can even order them.
Nobody better copy and sell my idea!!

    As far as I can tell, it is entirely legal and defensible to, say, patent something,  and then refuse to license anyone else to build it, even if you do anything with it yourself or not. That's what patents are - the holder can decide who uses it or not. That's why it matters if there was a patent, a trademark, a copyright issue, or if there is some contract with the  subcontractor to prevent them from producing it, or not. Of course, either violating a patent or skirting it with various means is why lawyers and the court system exist.

   Whether or not it's a moral lapse, unethical, etc. or not obviously depends on perspective.

    Brett
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 09:31:51 PM by Brett Buck »

Offline Ed Barry

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #75 on: January 26, 2018, 07:23:46 PM »
I'll take one pk. of 6
Ed Barry

Offline Dan Berry

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #76 on: January 26, 2018, 09:57:50 PM »
I am confused. Is a company from China concerned about copyright infringement or theft of intellectual property?
I'm wondering because ..... welll, ummmmmm, well, because that would be an interesting phenomenon.

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #77 on: January 27, 2018, 02:17:27 PM »
I am confused. Is a company from China concerned about copyright infringement or theft of intellectual property?
I'm wondering because ..... welll, ummmmmm, well, because that would be an interesting phenomenon.

Naw, it appears that Yoshioka Corp. (Jpn) designed and made or had made propellers that ended up being made in China for Thunder Tiger in Taiwan, in a solid plastic with no glass reinforcing. Nobody here in the USA seems to have had or used any of the genuine Yoshioka propellers, but we lust over the TT versions for the simple reason that they work really well and were previously quite inexpensive. Looks like that's changed, so for $5 ea., I'd be looking for Xoar propellers...but I'm not sure where to get the smaller sizes. Yes, Tower had them. Yes, a lot of R/C shops have big sizes with high pitches. It would be swell if Paul Taylor would expand his production line to include 11" x 4.5" dowels.  ;) Steve   
In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.

In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General Mattis.

Offline Dan Berry

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #78 on: January 27, 2018, 04:15:11 PM »
Naw, it appears that Yoshioka Corp. (Jpn) designed and made or had made propellers that ended up being made in China for Thunder Tiger in Taiwan, in a solid plastic with no glass reinforcing. Nobody here in the USA seems to have had or used any of the genuine Yoshioka propellers, but we lust over the TT versions for the simple reason that they work really well and were previously quite inexpensive. Looks like that's changed, so for $5 ea., I'd be looking for Xoar propellers...but I'm not sure where to get the smaller sizes. Yes, Tower had them. Yes, a lot of R/C shops have big sizes with high pitches. It would be swell if Paul Taylor would expand his production line to include 11" x 4.5" dowels.  ;) Steve
Ah. It just seemed like maybe someone in China was complaining about someone stealing a design or something. That'd be a twist.......
I am entering a new zone with an LA46 and have heard that this prop is the cats nuts so I was kinda hoping to acquire some.
Five clams a prop isn't real spendy.

Online Motorman

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #79 on: January 27, 2018, 06:03:48 PM »
What's the count, are we getting close?
There will be a sunny day and we will fly our airplanes.

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #80 on: January 27, 2018, 07:52:32 PM »

Five clams a prop isn't real spendy.


Well, no, it isn't but if you have to order a 5 year supply because there is no regular source, it gets to be a bit much. If you could order 6 @ $5 each and knew you could order 6 more next May if you need to, that isn't a huge deal. While I'm fairly sure that Xoar 12-4's would be more than $5 each, I'd hope to be able to replace them fairly easily. This is why I never saw a good reason to experiment with Rev-Up props. If they work extra good, but you only have one and can't replace it, what good is it? Maybe I'm just showing my Vulcan side again?   ;)  Steve
In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.

In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General Mattis.

Offline #Liner

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #81 on: February 03, 2018, 11:28:20 AM »
Hey you guys! Lookie what I found at a swap meet today for $2. One of those Yoshioka props, they do exist.
Chris Fretz (38)
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #82 on: February 03, 2018, 11:56:32 AM »
Hey you guys! Lookie what I found at a swap meet today for $2. One of those Yoshioka props, they do exist.

I seem to recall that you have a ST .60bb? This Yoshioka prop you found for $2 should be  good match. Also try an APC 12-6 and 12.5-6. Not sure what sizes XOAR makes, but RSM has a 12-5.5 (XOAR makes them for RSM) that would also be on my list. FYI   H^^ Steve
In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.

In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General Mattis.

Offline #Liner

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #83 on: February 03, 2018, 12:37:30 PM »
I seem to recall that you have a ST .60bb? This Yoshioka prop you found for $2 should be  good match. Also try an APC 12-6 and 12.5-6. Not sure what sizes XOAR makes, but RSM has a 12-5.5 (XOAR makes them for RSM) that would also be on my list. FYI   H^^ Steve
You are right I do have a ST60.  I saw  Dan McEntee mention it was a good prop for the ST60 so when I saw it I scarfed it up. I'll probably love the prop and break it and be screwed cause I can't get another.

Chris
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Offline Phil Spillman

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #84 on: February 03, 2018, 01:34:50 PM »
Please put me down for 6 of the 11X4.5 props. I thought that I had previously asked for this order but my name does not appear! Therefore please add my order for 6 to the lists!

Thanks,

Phil Spillman
Phil Spillman

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #85 on: February 03, 2018, 01:59:27 PM »
We got so off thread with the intrigue with the Japan/ Taiwan/ China copy rights?????

I lost track on my spread sheet on total desires for 11x 4.5s committed... but from this last thread page it is discouraging...Rick is still holding the bag on too many $5+ props to be comfortable

the 12 inches are never going to happen based on stated desires and min order commitment from Rick

If we want the 11 x 4.5s we need quite a few more committmnets

I would up mine but practically I have 5 on hand and 12 more sets me for life

I would very dearly like Eric Rule, Randy Smith, and John Brodak   et all  to commit to several dozen

I have only a few combinations where; right out of the box---- these props seemed best and no need to keep experimenting for my hack flying...and they are pretty damned durable giving my famous figure 9 strait in

Are they the Magic prop... not in all cases....

Enough said

Let Rick know if you are committed to a few of them....else we all lose another very good option never again to be sourced

"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline Rick Bollinger

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #86 on: February 13, 2018, 10:35:55 AM »
Well here is the latest on the props. We didn't have enough for me to order the minimum amount. BUT I have been working with Randy and here is the good news. I am ordering the props for Randy and he will be selling the props. The plus is I am also ordering the 12.5x5.5, 10x5.5 and 10x6 along with the 11x4.5. This works out well for everyone Randy is set up well for getting these out to everyone. Me not so much I haven't even been able to work on this years plane because of crazy work schedule this winter.
Rick
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Online Dane Martin

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #87 on: February 13, 2018, 12:12:43 PM »
Thank you Rick.  That is good news indeed. And thank you Randy. We'll have a reliable source for these props!

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #88 on: February 13, 2018, 12:29:41 PM »
Just to expand on how much we are all blessed occasionally with theses offers

The effort to negotiate for the part...
following a web thread and creating a list
asking for and storing addresses and desires
Buying the needed parts
Inventory the parts
Repackage to mail
Mail lables
trips to post office

Feed back

answer phone

Explain they are all gone

Serious consider if it was worth all the effort

years ago I built computers a LOT cheaper and better than Radio shack...was a soldier with a day weekend job... I made a meager amount on the sale...but the follow on Help Desk obligation cost me my sanity, love of mankind, and quite a few $$$

I admire and sincerely thank all the various guys that do this as a passion and truly giving effort
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline #Liner

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #89 on: February 13, 2018, 12:52:08 PM »
Well here is the latest on the props. We didn't have enough for me to order the minimum amount. BUT I have been working with Randy and here is the good news. I am ordering the props for Randy and he will be selling the props. The plus is I am also ordering the 12.5x5.5, 10x5.5 and 10x6 along with the 11x4.5. This works out well for everyone Randy is set up well for getting these out to everyone. Me not so much I haven't even been able to work on this years plane because of crazy work schedule this winter.
Rick
Is everyone on this thread still on the list or do we have to order them from Randy?

Thanks
Chris
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Offline RandySmith

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #90 on: February 13, 2018, 02:32:11 PM »
Is everyone on this thread still on the list or do we have to order them from Randy?

Thanks
Chris

HI Chris
It will still be  weeks  before I get the  Props, I will announce when they are in, and Yes i will look at the  thread to see who wants them, Meanwhile  I have ordered 3 more sizes, that are  exceptional props  so some people may want them also
10 x 6  excellent on OS 35S   FOX 35 , McCoy 35  etc
10 x 5.5     "   "     "     "       "       "       "      "      I have seen these used on the lite ST 40 46 and McCoy 40 on Classic ships like the  ARES    COBRA  etc
12.5 x 5.5

These  will come in along with the  11 x 4.5 I assume

You can order these  at any time, but they will  ship  end of the  month

Regards
Randy

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #91 on: February 13, 2018, 04:25:05 PM »
And the price will be the same?
There will be a sunny day and we will fly our airplanes.

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #92 on: February 13, 2018, 06:00:07 PM »
Rick and Randy...sincere thanks

I am still committed to my need of 2 sets (6 each) of the 11x 4.5s at what ever the cost
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline Rick Bollinger

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #93 on: February 13, 2018, 06:13:46 PM »
The price should be real close to the same. I am NOT adding anything to the price of the propellers. I am just doing this. Thunder Tigers prices have gone up substantially since my last order and shipping and handling charges are up substantially as well. I know Randy is extremely fair in his prices and there is very little if any to gain on getting these props. I originally started this just because I like a good challenge and glad that I could help with our hobby. Randy will be very fair with the pricing.
Rick
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Offline RandySmith

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #94 on: February 13, 2018, 06:53:54 PM »
And the price will be the same?

The price on the props (11 x 4.5) in this thread will be the  same,  The other props  will not be the same price

Randy

Offline Norm Faith Jr.

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #95 on: February 13, 2018, 08:53:39 PM »
I'm in for a 6 pack of the 11 X 4.5
Norm
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Offline Dave Harmon

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #96 on: February 13, 2018, 10:02:41 PM »
Good work Rick and Randy!
Much appreciated by all I'm sure.

Offline Joseph Patterson

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #97 on: February 13, 2018, 10:50:51 PM »
   Thanks Rick and Randy!
        Doug

Offline Bill Ambrose

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #98 on: February 14, 2018, 06:16:45 AM »
Put me down for 2 6 packs of the 11 x 4.5.

Thanks,

Bill
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Online James Holford

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Re: TT 11x4.5 props
« Reply #99 on: March 08, 2018, 05:01:16 PM »
Giving this thread a good bump to keep everyones interest in it. Lord knows I want dome of these 11x4.5

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Jamie Holford
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