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Author Topic: Las Vegas Stunt Challenge Nov 2019  (Read 889 times)

Offline ericrule

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Las Vegas Stunt Challenge Nov 2019
« on: December 02, 2019, 01:13:55 PM »
Las Vegas Stunt Challenge
From a Judge's Perspective

The Facilities
Reuben and Steven MacBride have arranged with Ikea the use of an reserve parking lot located between the store and the freeway. This lot is fully paved, fenced off, with no light standards and had a Port-A-Potty. As a result the Las Vegas Circle Burners have a facility that is paved, flat , clear of obstacles with no trees or building that create turbulence and enough area to allow for at least 6 flying circles and a parking area adjacent to the field.  The Ikea store was a short distance away and had food available. There was water and sodas available at the field.
In other words....About as good as it gets!
The Field Setup
The attached picture of Gary Gingrich flying his Patriot in Classic shows the outer edge of the field. As you can see the surface drops down a bit toward the right corner. There is a 4 ft high perimeter fence so the pilots have a reference as to level flight. The Highway sign in the background provides a vertical reference for intersections. Of course the fence height  and sign also provice a reference for the judges so depending upon the accuracy of the maneuver this can be good or bad for the pilot's score.
Wind Conditions
During the contest we had very light winds that angled across the field from inner left to upper right. This placed the maneuvers so that the fence line and highway sign were located almost perfectly for both flight and judging reference.
The Pits and flight flow
 The Pit was located at the edge of the flying circle so that it was easy for the contestants to move their models into and out of the circle. The Pit Boss selected by Steven MacBride did a fantastic job in that he always had someone in the circle flying and the next pilot ready in the pits. The result of his actions was that over the two days of the event there was never a time when the circles were empty. This allowed us to average one flight every ten minutes. To state it a different way neither the pilots nor judges had to stand around waiting for someone to fly. In my considered opinion this is exactly the way the pits should be run, efficiently with no problems and a constant flow into and out of the pits.
General Impressions of the contest organization
The Registration flowed smoothly, Models were weighed, Score Sheets were filled out and the Scoreboard placed in position promptly. Each day prior to the flights themselves Steven MacBride held a Pilot's Meeting where he covered everything needed including mentioning where the First Aid box was and how to get to the nearest hospital. I have attended a very large number of contests over the years and heard many Pilot's Meetings. Steven’s meetings were two of the best I have every heard...organized, precise and providing what the pilots needed to know.





Everyone knew what they were doing and when it should be done. The score keepers were in place, did their jobs correctly and the scores were posted quickly. The person selected to run the score sheets from the judges to the score keepers was efficient and was always there immediately after the judges completed their scores to take the scores to the scoring table.

Reuben called a break between the first and second rounds and most of us walked the short distance to the Ikea Store for lunch.
On the Saturday evening everyone was invited to the MacBride's home for pizza, drinks and conversation. Like everything else at this contest it was so organized that they even had printed directions of how to get to their home from the field. This Saturday Evening Pizza was very nice of the MacBrides because none of the out of town folks had to worry about what they were going to do to pass the time that evening. A very nice touch and very appreciated.

The picture below show the group who parties[at the in the contest.









Some of the Models and the Pilots.
       





           





         












Maneuvers Flown
As you can see from the scores posted on the Score Board the level of flying was quite good overall with some exceptional performances. That being said, however; there were some very consistent, almost universal, errors that reduced the individual maneuver scores. Every maneuver starts out scoring 40 and points are removed based upon the errors observed. In an effort to help I have listed the errors printed in the AMA Rules Book for the Inside Loops and noted the typical point reductions applied.
Inside Loops
Errors: Loops are rough and irregular (i.e., egg -shaped, hexagonal, etc.). Bottoms of loops are not at 1.2–1.8 meters (3.9–5.9 feet) height. Tops of loops vary more than 0.6 meter (2 feet), plus or minus, from the 45 degrees elevation point. Second and third loops vary more than 0.6 meter (2 feet) from the path of the first loop.
The most common error is that the pilot enters the first loop at the 5-6 foot level and ends at the 8-10 foot level. Depending upon the difference in entry and exit level this is a reduction of 3 to 5 points based upon flight level. Even if the loop is within 2 feet of the 45 degrees elevation point it can not possibility be circular so there will be a 2 to 5 point reduction for missing the shape.
The second common error is that the second and third loop although often circular have bottoms at the same 8-10 foot level. This error means that the last two loops can not be flown on the same path as loop one so there will be an additional reduction of 2 to 4 points.
Simple math will tell you that the proper level entry followed by a higher exit on loop one followed by similar bottoms on loops two and three has to result in a total reduction of 7 to 14 points.
A simple increase of normal flight level from the 4-5 feet usually flown to 6-8 feet will result in less point loss because your bottoms will be better and the three loops are more likely to be circular. Even if you loose a couple of points because the tops at a bit higher than the 2 feet plus or minus from the 45 degree level it will certainly be less than what is happening now. Once you become more comfortable pulling out at 5 feet instead of 8-10 feet you can simply move the maneuver down a bit and expect a consistently higher score.
Since this is a review of the contest and not a judging clinic I will simply list the most common errors observed during this contest:
- Triangles rarely shaped correctly.
- Hourglass too wide with the exception of 4 seen over the two day contest.
- Only two pilots flew the Overhead Eight overhead. The rest flown no more than 5-8 degrees behind the head.
-  Four Leaf Clover entries were at proper level but very few straight lines between loop one and two and most pilots tilted the nose up for circles two and four.
The Las Vegas Circle Burners Stunt Challenge was one of the finest contests it has been my pleasure to attend. A superb flying site with no turbulence and great enmities. Well organized and run by people who go out of their way to insure anyone attending has a good time. Inexpensive hotel rooms and almost unlimited activities for wives and girlfriends. I do not know how Reuben and Steven are going to improve this event but I for one know that they will certainly do so. As a result I can not wait until 2020!!!!

Offline ericrule

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Re: Las Vegas Stunt Challenge Nov 2019
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2019, 01:18:34 PM »
pictures

Offline ericrule

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Re: Las Vegas Stunt Challenge Nov 2019
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2019, 01:21:40 PM »
more pictures

Offline ericrule

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Re: Las Vegas Stunt Challenge Nov 2019
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2019, 01:23:01 PM »
more pictures

Offline ericrule

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Re: Las Vegas Stunt Challenge Nov 2019
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2019, 01:24:16 PM »
more pictures

Offline ericrule

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Re: Las Vegas Stunt Challenge Nov 2019
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2019, 01:25:22 PM »
Very distinguished persons

Offline Shorts,David

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Re: Las Vegas Stunt Challenge Nov 2019
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2019, 03:57:57 PM »
I hope to make it next year. Had something else on the calendar this time. Thanks for the write up and the judging pointers. Although I didn't fly, I appreciated that.

David

Offline Reuben MacBride

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Re: Las Vegas Stunt Challenge Nov 2019
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2019, 11:09:16 PM »
Eric thank you for the compliment . We appreciated all the help that made this event a Big success. Steven & My family love the hobby and the stunt Family that we got to know and want so badly to keep the event going. With that being said I hope to see more of our friends attend the next year event Nov 6th ,7th and 8th 2020. We have the ok from the owner to use the lot again ,providing they don't build on it. The owner was well pleased that we insured the property and provided a safety line. He also commented on how well organized we set it up and kept the property clean. Some of the contestants stayed at the Rampart Hotel and did not realize that for $69.00 a night they were getting a five star resort Hotel. The rooms had Jacuzzi, a Balcony, and a very large deluxe room. Located 15 minutes from the field. and no more that 15 minutes to the Strip. This year we plan to add Old time Stunt . Mark your calendar for next year as it's gonna get better each year.

Offline BYU

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Re: Las Vegas Stunt Challenge Nov 2019
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2019, 08:00:57 AM »
This year we plan to add Old time Stunt

Will you also be running N30 or Super 70’s?


Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Las Vegas Stunt Challenge Nov 2019
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2019, 11:29:19 AM »
Thanks for the write up Eric.  The old DOC may surprise you all if all goes well. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Reuben MacBride

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Re: Las Vegas Stunt Challenge Nov 2019
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2019, 03:47:35 AM »
BYU
When I go to VSC I will ask around those who fly super 70's and see if they plan to attend in Nov.  We can make this event one that is put on your must do list of contest you don't want to miss. Where else can you fly during the day and have so much family entertainment after words. Viva Las Vegas.

Offline ericrule

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Re: Las Vegas Stunt Challenge Nov 2019
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2019, 11:08:40 AM »
Classic Stunt (models up to Dec 1969) could easily be expanded to include Super 70 (models up to Dec 1979)

Offline Ted Fancher

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Re: Las Vegas Stunt Challenge Nov 2019
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2019, 01:00:22 PM »
Classic Stunt (models up to Dec 1969) could easily be expanded to include Super 70 (models up to Dec 1979)

Alas.  One of the bigger errors we ever made was not including the suggested rolling cut-off date for Classic eligibility included in the original proposal. 

That proposal had the acceptable designs advancing one year each year; the intention being to not only constantly freshen the available "cast" of critters with which we could compete but also encourage the potential for contestants to eventually (we all get older, don't we!) be able to not only fly a design he/she had flown early in a career but also (wonderfully) to even allow the original aircraft to be pulled off the wall, show up to be seen and even, potentially, compete.  The depth of "nostalgic" interest fades quickly when the available crop of "legal" designs fails to include those ships which are "personally" nostalgic to more recent generations of fliers.

We might also find that we've improved stunt design somewhat less than we think we have over the decades we've been doing this stuff.

Or not...

Ted

Offline Jim Hoffman

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Re: Las Vegas Stunt Challenge Nov 2019
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2019, 04:03:33 PM »
We have successfully combined Classic and Super 70's and flown them together.  At one VSC we flew them together and allowed folks to enter both.  Those that did entered two models and thus got two flights each round (one flight with each airplane).  It was very doable with the unique  logistics thought through by the contest mgt. Two sets of awards, careful to not get appearance pts confused, and care to not require back to back flights for anybody.

Offline Shorts,David

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Re: Las Vegas Stunt Challenge Nov 2019
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2019, 03:15:52 PM »


We might also find that we've improved stunt design somewhat less than we think we have over the decades we've been doing this stuff.

Or not...

Ted

I'm not an expert yet, but from my beginners POV, that statement holds truth. I watched your Ruffy take third in PA expert right behind Brett and David. My Ringmaster tracks better than any plane I've flown. I'm sure there are certain improvements, but like you said, maybe not as big as we suppose.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Las Vegas Stunt Challenge Nov 2019
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2019, 04:29:56 PM »
Is it too much trouble to get the rolling cut off date put into the rules for Classic??  Leave Old Time as is. D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Las Vegas Stunt Challenge Nov 2019
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2019, 10:58:19 PM »
Alas.  One of the bigger errors we ever made was not including the suggested rolling cut-off date for Classic eligibility included in the original proposal. 

That proposal had the acceptable designs advancing one year each year;
Ted

 I've always thought that would be a better way to do Classic, just makes sense.  y1
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline ericrule

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Re: Las Vegas Stunt Challenge Nov 2019
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2019, 10:17:51 AM »
As usual I stand corrected by Ted.

Of course Super Seventies (or Nostalgia Stunt) expands the cut off date every year. Darn it but this "getting older" sucks.

One other benefit of combining the two events is that you will only require one set of judges!

Eric Rule


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