Triathlon Design

[catdaddy]

As some of you know TGD has a Triathlon event every year during the 4th of July weekend. I've been using a SHIM, but this year I modified one of my Wareagles and was very pleased with how it performed. It did very well in stunt and except for a glow plug falling out half way through the race, which cost me almost two minutes, it was competitive in the racing. What I want to do is make it a more deadly balloon killing machine and I was thinking of wrapping some heavy grit sand paper around the leading edge to make it easier to bust the evil balloons without a direct prop hit. My question is, "Do you think it would degrade the performance in the other two events?"
I'm thinking more drag and less efficient airfoil would degrade the performance. I could and will test this out but was curious as to what you guys thought.

[Joejust]

Rick, (the following is a JOKE, OK?)

Slice the leading outboard edge about 1/4 inch deep.For racing insert a hacksaw blade with the teeth inside the leading edge. For balloon bust take out the blade and re insert with the teeth showing. Minimal drag either way!

Joe

PS I weas always sorry we never got around to kitting the War-Eagle.

[catdaddy]

PS I weas always sorry we never got around to kitting the War-Eagle.

Joe,
That still could happen...I'll be talking to you and Jim very soon.

[Just One-eye]

(...) I was always sorry we never got around to kitting the War-Eagle.

Hmmm?  How'd I never hear of any such design before now?  Anyone else in the dark about this one besides only me? 

[Paul Taylor]

Cat,
How about if you just C/A'ed some pins along the outboard LE poking out 1/8th of an inch. Should not take but 3 or 4.

No drag.

No Joke.

Paul  

[Elwyn Aud]

I think the rules would require the pins be part of the design in all events flown which might be a bit of a pain for whoever is doing the pitting in the racing portion of the Triathlon. I can't remember if the balloon in the photo popped right after the photo was taken or just bounced off.

[don Burke]

In that pic the pilot should have had his arm straight out, prop would've gotten the balloon

[Bob Reeves]

Ya, I think this would need to get blessed by the rules committee and I don't believe you would want me on it  

That being said, I don't believe it would hurt the stunt performance at all and we all know slow rat is won or lost in the pits. If I was inclined to do this I would probably just mix a little sand into some clear dope and paint the leading edge.

[catdaddy]

Paul I thought about the straight pins but decided against it simply because I'd be jabbing myself with them more than the balloons. Plus they would be a hazard to the racing pit crew.

Elwyn I remember that balloon, it was the second one and it bounced off and fell away.

Ty, there's nothing in the rules about what part of the plane has to pop the balloon. Jim Lee uses an Otto the AutoGyro!

I had my arm straight out on balloons that bounced away before. When you're trying to bust a balloon with a 9.5 inch prop and the wind is blowing the balloons and they're swaying 6 to 12 inches in the wind, hitting the balloon with any part of the plane without hitting the ground is all I hope to accomplish.

This design is my own and is a knock off of Jr and regular Nobler with some Big Bear rudderetts and a foam wing.

[Tom Niebuhr]

Pins etc were frowned upon in combat years ago.

Sand paper??? Like Ty says the propeller should be used. That will require a crew member to help line up with the balloons. K.I.S.S.  Don't encourage people to create an advantage!

[catdaddy]

Pins etc were frowned upon in combat years ago.

Sand paper??? Like Ty says the propeller should be used. That will require a crew member to help line up with the balloons. K.I.S.S.  Don't encourage people to create an advantage!

Heavens no! Lets not encourage people to CHANGE things through new ideas!

Like a tuned pipe, or an enlarged tail area, maybe longer tail moments??? How about an auto Gyro with a 30 inch whirling balloon smasher? Is that an unfair advantage? No it's an inovative use of an available design.
There are some that say having a crew member line you up is an advantage if everyone doesn't have the same crew member.

K.I.S.S.
How much simpler could sandpaper along the leading edge be?

John Ashford has popped 4 balloons in 26 seconds with just a prop. He has the advantage already. I'm trying to figure out a way to beat him, and I could fly from now till doomsday and I'll never break 4 balloons in 26 seconds with just my prop.

[Mike Anderson]

Well, the legality of sandpaper/pins/hacksaw blades is entirely up to your local rules making gods - however - remove the spinner for balloon bust - a spinner is a notorious balloon BOUNCER, not a BUSTER.  And I've seen Jim Lee fly many times- I don't believe I've ever seen the rotor break a balloon - your experience may be different.

Mike A

[catdaddy]

Well, the legality of sandpaper/pins/hacksaw blades is entirely up to your local rules making gods - however - remove the spinner for balloon bust - a spinner is a notorious balloon BOUNCER, not a BUSTER.  And I've seen Jim Lee fly many times- I don't believe I've ever seen the rotor break a balloon - your experience may be different.

Mike A

The spinner can't come off once you've flown the stunt and race with it. I've seen Jim break alot of balloons with the rotor here in Tulsa. He's not using it because it flies good

[Keith Spriggs]

Most of my wings end up looking like #40 grit.

[Richard Grogan]

Heavens no! Lets not encourage people to CHANGE things through new ideas!

How about an auto Gyro with a 30 inch whirling balloon smasher? Is that an unfair advantage? No it's an inovative use of an available design.

Now that really would be too cool...An Autogyro-only balloon bust! Talk about innovative! I like that!

[Bob Reeves]

Bob, Bob, for shame.   Why not just for for accuracy and use the prop.  There are too many rules bent each contest as it is.

If you read between the lines you would see I am basically against the idea just like I am against being able to use an electric starter in the rat race. However I am not the one making the rules for this event and don't have allot of influence on those that do 

[Just One-eye]

If you read between the lines you would see I am basically against the idea just like I am against being able to use an electric starter in the rat race. However I am not the one making the rules for this event and don't have allot of influence on those that do 

Hey, Bob, didn't you hold onto any Landlord's Rights of any sort?  Seems to me you could exert more influence if it was in your nature to be more aggressive . . not that I'm advocating any major personality overhaul, of course. 

[john e. holliday]

All I can say is that if the rotor is breaking balloons it is not the same Jim Lee I know.  The rotor will bounce the balloons more than a wing.  DOC Holliday

[Leo Mehl]

Last time I did a triathalon I went over to the park and splashed around in the wading pool, Rode my bike two blocks and walked a half a block and collapsed. I just don't have it anymore. Thank God for Gatoratde. Oh I did beat Doc Holiday but I started an hour earlier than he did. Great handicap system!

[Alan Hahn]

We could use a few "fun" events like this around here too. Jim Renkar's 1/2 A stunt (with Fred Krueger's "Coxy Hazel" 100 lap race is a hoot, but it isn't until September.

I wonder if the Circle Cutters may have some fun stuff like this.

[Jim P]

Rick
Just stumbled on to this thread.
Razor blades, pins, sandpaper, etc. would be patently and unquestionably illegal.
So would overly long landing gears with barbs etc. The doped on sand might fly  or a pointed outboard tip tank looking device might also slip by assuming the design was a ship that used tip tanks like an F 84, etc..
I think this is sorta in the book somewhere.
As to fast pits in the racing event-no problem, just buy youself a starter(Kinda like buying a game IMO).
Pitting with hand starts are the heart and soul of the racing event and the use of starters takes a lot away from the event. The first time I ever heard of this was at the first ringmaster rally in Houston and I couldn't believe my ears.
The OKC guys, well aware of the starter rule, got great pits which was a large factor in our cleaning everyones clock.
Still, I would rather go back to the real thing.
Jim

[James Lee]

In Otto's defense, the rotor just 'gathers' the balloons and feeds them to the prop.....
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!!!
Several years ago there were three Otto's entered in BB at one of the Omaha contests.   Lots of fun!!   Best part was when Brett Smith's gyro lost its rotor and sped up...       it had a sheet alum landing gear which acted 'sorta' like a wing.....        Way Coolll
Later
Jim

[Mike Anderson]

In Otto's defense, the rotor just 'gathers' the balloons and feeds them to the prop.....
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!!!
Several years ago there were three Otto's entered in BB at one of the Omaha contests.   Lots of fun!!   Best part was when Brett Smith's gyro lost its rotor and sped up...       it had a sheet alum landing gear which acted 'sorta' like a wing.....        Way Coolll
Later
Jim

Brett & I entered his Otto in "Fargo Sport Race" either that year or the next -- Fargo Sport Race is really a pitting contest - you must pit 3 times and the "heat" lasts for 15 minutes.  Most airtime wins.  So it doesn't matter how fast the plane is.  Larry Dziak (the "Wiz") was so upset by our lack of respect for a "racing" event that he told his pilot (I don't remember who) to fly right through the middle of it if he got a chance - he entered a Goodyear.  No midairs ended up occurring, but Brett & I used to laugh about that fairly often afterward.  I imagine that mine was the 3rd entered at Omaha -- but neither of us could ever fly them as well as you fly yours -- and I still don't remember ever seeing a "rotor strike" pop a balloon.

Mike A

[Mike Anderson]

We could use a few "fun" events like this around here too. ........

I wonder if the Circle Cutters may have some fun stuff like this.

Do they still fly their "Carrier" event - with the four decks marked on the ground, balloons to break, and bonus points for breaking them inverted    I always wanted to try that one ...


Mike A