Author Topic: Towing with a Hybrid (Read 11022 times)

Paul Taylor · « **on:** October 28, 2008, 11:04:07 AM »

So I am jumping on the Hybrid band wagon. I let Ryan have my truck to go to school in, so I am without something to haul planes in. After seeing Phil's little trailer I got to thinking about a trailer. My guess is that the manual says no towing. But .....

Anybody got any experence towing a small trailer with a Hybrid?

Howard Rush · « **Reply #1 on:** October 28, 2008, 11:58:29 AM »

What hybrid? You can get a full-size stunter in a Prius. You gotta be careful not to run out of gas, though.

catdaddy · « **Reply #2 on:** October 28, 2008, 12:06:22 PM »

Quote from: Howard Rush on October 28, 2008, 11:58:29 AM

What hybrid? You can get a full-size stunter in a Prius. You gotta be careful not to run out of gas, though.

I thought my girlfriend was the only person in America to run out of gas in a Prius! Are you telling me that's not so?
Actually I've been kicking around the idea of getting some sort of hybrid minivan, but gas is down to 1.99 a gallon in my hometown.

To answer your question Paul I wouldn't attempt to haul anything that wasn't designed to do it. Vehicles are designed differently today than they were 35 years ago when you could just about haul anything with anything.

Paul Walker · « **Reply #3 on:** October 28, 2008, 12:38:35 PM »

[
I thought my girlfriend was the only person in America to run out of gas in a Prius! Are you telling me that's not so?

Yes, a Top 5 flier from the Nats ran out of gas in a Prius on the way to, (and from), the Nats!!

I bet you can guess who!

catdaddy · « **Reply #4 on:** October 28, 2008, 12:50:33 PM »

Quote from: Paul Walker on October 28, 2008, 12:38:35 PM

[
I thought my girlfriend was the only person in America to run out of gas in a Prius! Are you telling me that's not so?

Yes, a Top 5 flier from the Nats ran out of gas in a Prius on the way to, (and from), the Nats!!

I bet you can guess who!

Well crap, I guess I'll have to stop giving her grief over it.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #5 on:** October 28, 2008, 01:29:18 PM »

Perhaps the aforementionned top five flier felt that he was on the verge of an overun so elected to short tank the Hybrid to prevent that, I am sure he woudl be concerned about pattern points upon arrival,,,,,

Marvin Denny · « **Reply #6 on:** October 28, 2008, 01:32:39 PM »

Quote from: Paul Walker on October 28, 2008, 12:38:35 PM

[I bet you can guess who!

My guess is that old (senile) combat fliers never could get the right amount of fuel in their bladders

Bigiron

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #7 on:** October 28, 2008, 03:41:33 PM »

Now if you guys were just running old sparkers on gasoline, you would have a little extra gas along with you. A little castor would not hurt would it? Should get you to the next station. Don't think I would try that with 10% nitro fuel though. Might get you there real fast, or not.

Wayne Collier · « **Reply #8 on:** October 28, 2008, 04:24:48 PM »

My guess is that weight and integrity of the attachment of the hitch to the vehicle would be the two greatest factors after being absolutely certain that towing won't void the warranty. I often see motorcycles pulling trailers. A really light well made trailer may never be noticed by the car. Just remember that stopping is important also. I once knew a guy who used a V-8 powered CJ7 to tow all sorts of things. He had to stop carefully in order to keep from being pushed by the weight of the trailer.

Dave Nyce · « **Reply #9 on:** October 28, 2008, 04:34:35 PM »

I had a 1974 Honda Civic, which had a very small engine (bought it because it was cheap, I just got married, and needed a cheap car). The manual said under towing: not recommended. But I added a hitch and towed a small tent trailer for many years without a problem. Sold the Honda with 140,000 miles on it, and it was still working fine. That was not a hybrid, of course, but just thought I'd mention it.

But since that Honda, I've only bought American cars.

Dave

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #10 on:** October 28, 2008, 04:53:36 PM »

Well I am almost sure we will drive this car up north next year to the infamous Cheezehead fly in 2009.
It will be a Prius and what trunk space it has will be filled with luggage and travel snacks. So I don't think the wife was planning on field boxes and planes.

I was thinking about putting a hitch on it and then one of those "Hitch Cargo Carrier's". Build a box to fit a Flite Streak, SkyRay and maybe a field box. http://www.drawtite-hitches.com/products/Railed%20Cargo%20Carrier%20-%20Bolt%20Together,63153

Now I won't be pulling a trailer ??

Bill Heher · « **Reply #11 on:** October 28, 2008, 05:12:57 PM »

You could think about building a lightweight box out of 1X2 strips and luan plywood for a car top carrier. The off the shelf ones are kind of heavy and fairly tall. A custom built one with a low profile and a tapered front to cut wind resistance shouldnt kill your milage, and you can size it to fit the car and your planes.

or borrow the truck back for the fun-fly and have the boy ride shotgun- you need a pitman anyway!

Richard Grogan · « **Reply #12 on:** October 28, 2008, 05:13:36 PM »

Paul,Does the Prius have a back seat? I have a 3000GT that has a back seat big enough for 2 Ringmasters, but can't hold a person!Surely yours is bigger than this??

Leo Mehl · « **Reply #13 on:** October 28, 2008, 05:19:15 PM »

Quote from: Marvin Denny on October 28, 2008, 01:32:39 PM

My guess is that old (senile) combat fliers never could get the right amount of fuel in their bladders

Bigiron

I think in Howards case he just does't like to spend mony and also it gives Paul somthin to talk about. Also this is a stress factor just before the big contest. He doesn't like stress and enough gas.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #14 on:** October 28, 2008, 05:48:09 PM »

In the transportation expense wars, the Honda Civic (and some others) make the Toyota Prius look like a bad deal, IMHO. The Honda will get a few MPG less, but costs about 1/3 as much, and there's no $5,000 (?) battery pack to buy in 5 (or so) years. My son bought a Chevy Aveo 4 door. It's not a bad vehicle, similar MPG, but not as nice as the Honda. I would look at the Suzukis and Toyota Corolla, too. My brother bought a Subaru Forester...pretty nice, gets close to 30mpg, and it's AWD, so he can drive off into the desert without a problem. Bottom line, if you want to buy the Prius, you have to be wildly "green" or have a lot of extra cash. FWIW,

Steve

Willis Swindell · « **Reply #15 on:** October 28, 2008, 06:42:59 PM »

Years ago I had a ford Pinto I bought a trailer like the one you see at Wall mart with 8 inch wheels that you bolt together and put a large plastic top carrier on it . With foam rubber in-between the planes you could carry two planes and tools and probably weigh under a hundred pounds loaded. The Pinto and also a 86 Honda Civic didn’t even know the trailer was behind it. Worked for me.
Willis

peabody · « **Reply #16 on:** October 28, 2008, 07:02:07 PM »

There are several hybrid vehicles that are capable of pulling a trailer, and more coming. Ford makes a little Exploder, and Chevy a Tahoe...
I was fooling with a Dodge the other day that was really nice...

Larry Cunningham · « **Reply #17 on:** October 28, 2008, 07:56:35 PM »

I watched a test on the Speed Channel where the big super hoggy Chevy pickup
got smashed hard by the hybrid version, which also included a towing test.

I've talked to several people who own Priii (?) and they ALL rave about them.
They seem to have a huge fastback area, clearly enough for a couple of model airplanes.
They get better mileage in town. And apparently some people are converting them
to pure plug in for town use.

I guess a good reason for not buying one is the fear of replacing a battery pack..
A realistic look would consider the depreciated value after 5 years. How do they
hold up? There are still waiting lists for new ones in most areas.

If money is a major issue, pick up your favorite model when it is 1-2 years old, after
someone has taken the prime beating on depreciation, and the typical car having good
maintenance will be good as new. You can save enough to offset a lot of fuel costs.

I had a 1972 "VW-Porsche" 914-4 which I added a plug in hitch to, and pulled a motorcycle
trailer with up to 3 dirt bikes on it, without incident. And the 1976 one I bought had
enough room in the rear trunk for a Smoothie or Thunderbird, as long as you kept the
top on.

L.

"I was born not knowing and have only had a little time to change that here and there." -Richard Feynman

Randy Powell · « **Reply #18 on:** October 28, 2008, 08:12:31 PM »

Depends on the Hybrid. A Cadillac Escalade Hybrid would certainly pull a trailer, but then, you wouldn't need a trailer.

I don't know, spending 2/3 more for a car that gets a bit better gas mileage and is more costly, environment wise, to wreck out, well, I think I'll keep my 92 S-10 Blazer. Gets 24 miles per gallon, I can get three stunters in it and I own it.

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #19 on:** October 28, 2008, 09:07:46 PM »

I have two Dodge Mini vans. The 99 gets around 27 to 29 with a tail wind and has a 4 cyl. 16 valve engine. The 2003 has a v6 and gets about 25 to 27 with a tail wind. Both have done better but this is about average. They are both the short models but have enough room to get all the stuff I haul to fly plus what ever we will need to stay away from home for 2 weeks when we go to Tucson. The 99 has 110,000 miles with only a fuel pump replacement. The 2003 has 60,000 with an alternater replacement. I bought both new and paid less that 17,000 for the 2003, and less than 15,000 for the 99. I have been very happy with both of them and they are very comfortable on a long trip.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #20 on:** October 28, 2008, 09:39:40 PM »

Around here, the price of gasoline has plumetted by $2.30 per gallon in the last three weeks. - The greatest fuel price crash in history.

I'm sure glad I didn't dump my regular fleet for cheap and waste a lot of money on dwarf cars that might pay off after 200,000 miles on $5 gas.

Nobody ever even claimed that hybrids would save fuel on the highway, only on a certain limtied type of urban driving.

Bill Adair · « **Reply #21 on:** October 28, 2008, 10:45:33 PM »

We can't afford a Prius, so we rented a new Toyota Corolla to drive to NE Idaho this summer.

Got 34.5 MPG overall average, and saved enough money on gas (compared to my Ford Aerostar extended van) to pay the entire rental fee, and have some change left over!

The auto transmission did a lot of down shifting going up hills, but that didn't bother me until it got all the way down to second, and occasionally even first gear. Don't think a Prius would have done much better.

Two years ago we rented a new Chevy Impala, and averaged 30 MPG at (and often above) the speed limit. The Chevy didn't down shift more than one gear (which was hardly noticeable), made the same trip in less driving time, and the additional comfort was well worth the money spent on extra gas.

We still love American cars!

Bill

Howard Rush · « **Reply #22 on:** October 29, 2008, 12:09:17 AM »

The Prius held 80 mph going across mountains just fine except between Laramie and Cheyenne, where it dipped down to 70-something in a significant climb. I had the pedal to the metal today in eastern CA at 10,000 ft. altitude at only 70 mph. I should take a picture of my airplane carrier. It holds the airplane up kinda parallel to the roof line, centered on the back of the rear seat. There is room for two people, all the airplane stuff, and plenty of luggage. You could get even more capacity by removing the rear seat backs.

The amount of fuel remaining when the Prius low-fuel warning comes on seems to vary, and can be as little as 3 oz. I suspect it is calculated by integrating the flow meter. It makes it easy to run out of gas. No top-five flier I know of has run out of gas in a Prius. Top 6? That's another matter.

Bill Adair · « **Reply #23 on:** October 29, 2008, 01:51:32 AM »

Wow, I've driven a Prius around town, but didn't realize they had that much pep on the road!

The only car I've driven through Wyoming that didn't slow down on the hills (in the usual Wyoming stiff head winds), was my old Plymouth Fury, with the 440 engine. Never slowed on hills, but never missed a gas station either!

Funny, but I always seemed to hit a strong head wind in WY, no matter what direction I was driving?

No wonder you ran out of gas! You need a reserve fuel valve, like the early Volkswagons. They didn't have a reserve tank, but did had two fuel pickup spigots in the tank, one higher than the other.

Bill

Paul Smith · « **Reply #24 on:** October 29, 2008, 05:08:49 AM »

Out of both gas and electricty?

Arlan McKee · « **Reply #25 on:** October 29, 2008, 06:15:38 AM »

The biggest concern to me would be the transmission. Front wheel drives with their transverse mounted automatics aren't known for their strength and durability. Rebuild costs for front wheel drives are generally well over $2000 and thats not because they're any more difficult to rebuild, but because of the high probability that they will fail again within the warranty period. Then there is the tinker toy suspension connecting these cars to their beer can chassis. Those Toyotas have dog bones instead of ball joints and control arms.

I saw a show several years ago on gas mileage. They put several models of cartop carriers on top of a minivan and calculated the mileage. Most changes were very small with the worst around a 2 mpg reduction. Then they randomized low pressures in the tires, sort of like I see 75% of people driving on every day. When they did this they got a 5 to 7 mpg reduction. If you're not checking your tire pressure every month, you're giving away gas and rubber.

Terry Bolin · « **Reply #26 on:** October 29, 2008, 07:05:11 AM »

I have had three friends with Hybrid cars, two are toyota. all were disappointed! Gas milage is never what they claim and I read a report recently that if Gas mileage is your only concern: Buy a Corrolla. With Manual Transmission you sould have no trouble with a light small trailor. Also on the Hybrid, If you keep your cars a long time (Few people do) The repair cost are gonna kill ya. Price the replacment batteries and Also a AC compressor. (One of these cars I know already had a compressor) It's a cool.....expensive toy at this point to have a hybrid. I am driving a Dodge Intrepid that I have had for over 12 years now. We got 31 MPG going to Muncie to the nats. It's not a small cracker box interior either.
Good luck. I would not recommend towing with a hybrid.
Terry Bolin
ttbolin@yahoo.com

Scott Hartford · « **Reply #27 on:** October 29, 2008, 08:01:16 AM »

Quote from: Bill Adair on October 28, 2008, 10:45:33 PM

We can't afford a Prius, so we rented a new Toyota Corolla to drive to NE Idaho this summer.

Got 34.5 MPG overall average, and saved enough money on gas (compared to my Ford Aerostar extended van) to pay the entire rental fee, and have some change left over!

The auto transmission did a lot of down shifting going up hills, but that didn't bother me until it got all the way down to second, and occasionally even first gear. Don't think a Prius would have done much better.

Two years ago we rented a new Chevy Impala, and averaged 30 MPG at (and often above) the speed limit. The Chevy didn't down shift more than one gear (which was hardly noticeable), made the same trip in less driving time, and the additional comfort was well worth the money spent on extra gas.

We still love American cars!

Bill

So you're comparing a Corolla to an Impala in terms of transmission downshifting and comfort?

The Corolla would be more closely matched to say, a Cobalt, and the Impala would be compared to an Avalon. When the comparison is set up this way, well, there really is no comparison!

If you truly love "American" cars, the Corolla would win in this instance too....

Dalton Hammett · « **Reply #28 on:** October 29, 2008, 08:24:35 AM »

+++++++++++++

As for towing with a hybrid - the Ford Hybrid is the Escape - with a 4 cyl. engine it is rated at 1500#, the same vehicle if equipped properly (engine & tow pkg) can pull 3500# - BUT , with the hybrid version you do not tow....... If you are buying to tow don't go with a hybrid, if your buying for the ecology go with the hybrid. If your interest is in savings then you need to consider how much fuel you can buy for the $4000 or so more you will spend for the hybrid and the warranty could definately be an issue if you try to tow with the hybrid.

Dalton H.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #29 on:** October 29, 2008, 08:42:51 AM »

You're better off going to someplace like Enterprize and spending $300 to rent a van for the BIG CONTEST. Either that or (better yet) have a friend with a van.

Back in another life, I towed a boat with a car (big engine & trans) and it still cost me in the short run.

Scott Hartford · « **Reply #30 on:** October 29, 2008, 09:10:41 AM »

Quote from: Arlan McKee on October 29, 2008, 06:15:38 AM

The biggest concern to me would be the transmission. Front wheel drives with their transverse mounted automatics aren't known for their strength and durability. Rebuild costs for front wheel drives are generally well over $2000 and thats not because they're any more difficult to rebuild, but because of the high probability that they will fail again within the warranty period. Then there is the tinker toy suspension connecting these cars to their beer can chassis. Those Toyotas have dog bones instead of ball joints and control arms.

I saw a show several years ago on gas mileage. They put several models of cartop carriers on top of a minivan and calculated the mileage. Most changes were very small with the worst around a 2 mpg reduction. Then they randomized low pressures in the tires, sort of like I see 75% of people driving on every day. When they did this they got a 5 to 7 mpg reduction. If you're not checking your tire pressure every month, you're giving away gas and rubber.

If you are referring to a hybrid, they dont actually have a transmission, just 2 motors and a planetary gear set, and they don't break very often.
As for front wheel drive transaxles not being noted for their strength and durability, if you are referring to Toyotas (or Hondas),I think you are mistaken. They hardly ever break. Period. Not to mention being a better design and more efficient.
I'm not too sure what you are talking about referencing the suspension comment, as the Prius has MacPherson front struts and a torsion beam rear suspension. While cars like the Camry have MacPherson front struts and a MacPherson 4-link rear suspension. As for tinker-toy, well, nowadays that is more properly referred to as "state of the art". Welcome to 2008!

Progress will pass you real quickly if you just sit still.

Bill Adair · « **Reply #31 on:** October 29, 2008, 10:45:35 AM »

Quote from: Scott Hartford on October 29, 2008, 08:01:16 AM

So you're comparing a Corolla to an Impala in terms of transmission downshifting and comfort? The Corolla would be more closely matched to say, a Cobalt, and the Impala would be compared to an Avalon. When the comparison is set up this way, well, there really is no comparison! If you truly love "American" cars, the Corolla would win in this instance too....

No, Scott, I was comparing the good highway mileage of both vehicles.

Don't get me wrong, the Corolla is a great little car, but the Impala gets good highway mileage, and has trunk and passenger space to spare. Driver and passenger comfort, and the smoother drive line of the Impala are just frosting on the cake. Resale is another matter.

Which car would I buy, if I could only have one? The Impala, without a doubt!

We spend a lot of time with our grandkids, and I think they are safer in a larger car, but even more importantly, my daughter and son-in-law also think their kids are safer in a larger car.

Bill

Scott Hartford · « **Reply #32 on:** October 29, 2008, 11:41:50 AM »

I think you are still comparing the Impala to a Corolla.

The comparable (but not really!)Toyota model to an Impala is the Avalon. The Avalon is plenty large with good trunk room and extremely comfortable, not to mention it goes like stink when you tromp the footfeed. Go take a peek at one and I'd be surprised if you would buy an Impala.

Being in the auto business has taught me that there are some safe bets in cars, such as Toyota, Scion, Lexus, Honda,Accura,and Subaru. This mirrors what most reporting sources (Consumer Reports, J.D. Powers, etc...) find also. "American" cars are less American, and "foreign" cars are less foreign these days. The market is truly global, and the ones on the rise deserve a second look.....

Arlan McKee · « **Reply #33 on:** October 29, 2008, 12:10:26 PM »

Quote from: Scott Hartford on October 29, 2008, 09:10:41 AM

If you are referring to a hybrid, they dont actually have a transmission, just 2 motors and a planetary gear set, and they don't break very often.
As for front wheel drive transaxles not being noted for their strength and durability, if you are referring to Toyotas (or Hondas),I think you are mistaken. They hardly ever break. Period. Not to mention being a better design and more efficient.
I'm not too sure what you are talking about referencing the suspension comment, as the Prius has MacPherson front struts and a torsion beam rear suspension. While cars like the Camry have MacPherson front struts and a MacPherson 4-link rear suspension. As for tinker-toy, well, nowadays that is more properly referred to as "state of the art". Welcome to 2008! Progress will pass you real quickly if you just sit still.

Tell that to all the folks forking over 3 grand to fix the trans in their little rice burners. Honda had a particularly bad run of them for a few years. I will grant you that they don't break as often as something from General Motors. That being said anyone that would tow a trailer with a front wheel automatic w/OD is just asking for trouble. Many of the vehicles listed in these posts have them.

As for the suspension, those struts on that Camry are accompanied by Tinker toys. The Accord is often compared to the Camry, but there is no comparison between the two front ends. The Accord has wishbone control arms with ball joints. The Camry has struts and dog bones stamped out of steel with little rubber bushings or Tinker Toys as I like to call them. This "Progress" can't be adjusted and doesn't handle well with the front of the car elevated. I'm sure it's a lot cheaper to build it that way. So, drop that trailers tongue weight down on your little rice burners bumper and go for a drive, maybe in the rain, and see how she handles.

Scott Hartford · « **Reply #34 on:** October 29, 2008, 01:42:07 PM »

Quote from: Arlan McKee on October 29, 2008, 12:10:26 PM

Tell that to all the folks forking over 3 grand to fix the trans in their little rice burners. Honda had a particularly bad run of them for a few years. I will grant you that they don't break as often as something from General Motors. That being said anyone that would tow a trailer with a front wheel automatic w/OD is just asking for trouble. Many of the vehicles listed in these posts have them.

As for the suspension, those struts on that Camry are accompanied by Tinker toys. The Accord is often compared to the Camry, but there is no comparison between the two front ends. The Accord has wishbone control arms with ball joints. The Camry has struts and dog bones stamped out of steel with little rubber bushings or Tinker Toys as I like to call them. This "Progress" can't be adjusted and doesn't handle well with the front of the car elevated. I'm sure it's a lot cheaper to build it that way. So, drop that trailers tongue weight down on your little rice burners bumper and go for a drive, maybe in the rain, and see how she handles.

How much does it cost to repair the trans in a "non rice-burner"

?
Have you seen the front suspension of a Camry in the last 10 years?

?? Last time I checked, below the MacPherson strut, was a ball joint attached to a forged lower control arm.

I didn't see any "tinker toys"

The front end is adjustable for camber and toe and if caster is off, something is bent. I never looked at this as a problem

...
Exactly which cars do handle well with the front end elevated while towing a trailer?

?

I'm drawing a blank...
It may just be me, but you sound like a bitter Teamster.

Check the news today and see what Toyota just did to GM....

Scott Hartford · « **Reply #35 on:** October 29, 2008, 02:10:31 PM »

I won't make you look for it: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27435334/

Arlan McKee · « **Reply #36 on:** October 29, 2008, 09:40:39 PM »

Quote from: Scott Hartford on October 29, 2008, 01:42:07 PM

How much does it cost to repair the trans in a "non rice-burner"?
Have you seen the front suspension of a Camry in the last 10 years??? Last time I checked, below the MacPherson strut, was a ball joint attached to a forged lower control arm. I didn't see any "tinker toys"
The front end is adjustable for camber and toe and if caster is off, something is bent. I never looked at this as a problem ...
Exactly which cars do handle well with the front end elevated while towing a trailer?? I'm drawing a blank...
It may just be me, but you sound like a bitter Teamster. Check the news today and see what Toyota just did to GM....

Since you seem to miss every point in your attempt to make yourself right in some form, let me lay it out for you a little more plainly.

I didn't bring up Japanese cars in particular concerning transmissions, you did. I said transverse mounted FWD automatics. They are more expensive to have rebuilt as opposed to vehicles normally used for towing which most people would understand to be trucks and other RWD vehicles. They're more expensive because they have a high comeback rate after the build. Did I mention my Father has had a transmission business for 17 years?

The "something bent" that you mention are those dog bones they use instead of an upper control arm and ball joint. Why didn't you mention those in your post? I guess you meant you didn't see any dogbones or Tinker Toys on the bottom where there was a balljoint. That makes you look like your right, but wait, you said somethings bent. What were those bent things....?

I never implied that any vehicle handled well with the nose high which is what will happen to most of the vehicles mentioned here. I wouldn't pull a trailer with any FWD car.
They are simply not up to the task.

I don't have any use for unions. Did bringing that up some how lend credibility to what you wrote?

I'm not anti-Japanese or anti-foreign car. I have 275,000 miles on a 92 Honda Accord. I sold a 94 Ford last year with more miles than that. I have never paid, nor will I ever pay someone to fix my cars. The Honda required more maintenance than the Ford, by the way, for the same miles. That sort of goes against the consumer reports, so I must be mistaken.

I could care less what Toyota did to GM.

Paul asked opinions for towing with hybrids and posts began to include many makes of small, light, and mostly FWD vehicles. I gave my opinion. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what you have contributed.

Care to make some more assumptions or imply some positions that aren't mine?

Scott Hartford · « **Reply #37 on:** October 30, 2008, 06:54:44 AM »

Quote

The "something bent" that you mention are those dog bones they use instead of an upper control arm and ball joint. Why didn't you mention those in your post? I guess you meant you didn't see any dogbones or Tinker Toys on the bottom where there was a balljoint. That makes you look like your right, but wait, you said somethings bent. What were those bent things....?
[/quote

I think you are confused. Camrys (as well as most other cars) use a strut type front suspension. There are no upper control arms. the top of the strut is secured by an upper strut mount that bolts to the body. What bends in a collision is usually the strut, knuckle, or lower control arm. Did I happen to mention that I have been a Master Diagnostic Technician for Toyota for 14 years? P.S.. if Paul would like to PM me, I will give him the straight dope on towing with a hybrid.

Arlan McKee · « **Reply #38 on:** October 30, 2008, 09:24:25 AM »

Well , let's hope you are better at installing ball joints in cars than you are in Noblers.

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #39 on:** October 30, 2008, 09:54:38 AM »

For the record, I will not tow a trailer. But I am still looking hard at a cargo hitch with a box on top.

Will Hinton · « **Reply #40 on:** October 30, 2008, 10:27:05 AM »

Gotta put my penny's worth in here. I currently drive a 2004 Pontiac Montana, extended version, and typically get between 26 and 29 MPG on the four lane. (22 to 24 locally.) Plenty of room for all my hanger queens. Also, last year five of us went to Wyoming pulling a pop-up trailer that's a pretty hefty load, and when my son-in-law was driving we flew along at speed limit PLUS and 3000 miles later the poor little front wheel drive van with over 60,000 miles on it was still performing great. Over a year later it still is. I think the tendency to stereotype things without researching some solid figures is sort of relying on guesswork. (This is my second Montana van.) I do still miss my '96 Park Avenue that used to get me 30+ on the four lane! What a ride!

Scott Hartford · « **Reply #41 on:** October 30, 2008, 10:49:38 AM »

Quote from: Arlan McKee on October 30, 2008, 09:24:25 AM

Well , let's hope you are better at installing ball joints in cars than you are in Noblers.

Cheap shot!.........but I like it!

Scott Hartford · « **Reply #42 on:** October 30, 2008, 11:47:31 AM »

Many modern cars are not rated for towing, not because of any shortcomings of engine power, transmission durability, or suspension limitations, but because they are equipped with VSC (vehicle stability control)

and no provision to turn it off. Watch the video and imagine a heavy trailer thrown into the mix.

New trucks that have VSC and traction control usually have a TRAC OFF button. New Tundras have a TOW/HAUL button to change the logic of this and the transmission shift points. As for a hitch mounted cargo box, I don't see any problem with that if it is not too heavy. I have seen small cars towing SMALL trailers without problems, but some people have no idea what their load weighs. In the late 80s and early 90s, Toyota sold a cab and chassis 1 ton truck. U-Haul promptly bought thousands of them and added a box on the back that effectively reduced the capacity in about half because of the weight of the box. People would load them up with anything that would fit in the box and most were regularly severely overloaded. Winnebago even used them as motorhome chassis. These were overweight empty!

Manufacturers have had to become a bit more conservative in their recommendations as common sense cannot be relied on.

Scott Hartford · « **Reply #43 on:** October 30, 2008, 11:56:41 AM »

This is a Camry suspension, if you are interested.....

George · « **Reply #44 on:** October 30, 2008, 03:38:59 PM »

I have an 06 Corolla with a stick. Although I don't have to stop and bail out the tank once in awhile (

) it does get very good mileage. I bought it strictly for gas mileage. It replaced a Chrysler Concorde, which replaced an Olds 98, and so forth. I used to get mostly larger cars.

My wife has a Camry, which replaced a Camry. She likes smaller cars.

Choosing cars is like selecting airplanes to build. Each likes something for a particular reason...otherwise, they would make only one kind.

I do not pull a trailor, and probably wouldn't with my Corolla. If I intended to pull a trailor much, I would get something larger and more powerful...with less mileage. Of course this is only one opinion.

George

Scott Hartford · « **Reply #45 on:** October 30, 2008, 03:47:59 PM »

And a good one at that!

Jim Thomerson · « **Reply #46 on:** October 30, 2008, 03:53:34 PM »

The Governor of Texas remarked that Texans would keep on buying pickups and SUVs because you couldn't carry a bale of hay in a Prius. The humor columnist from the local newspaper borrowed a Prius and took it to the feed store. Turns out you can put five bales of hay in a Prius and still get in and drive it away.

Scott Hartford · « **Reply #47 on:** October 30, 2008, 04:48:26 PM »

And 4 more on the roof!

Mike Lauerman · « **Reply #48 on:** October 30, 2008, 06:51:26 PM »

Boy! You guys are 'right up with the times'! My brother-in-law bought a hybrid. Honda. I borrowed it one weekend to go to San Francisco. The "fancy-boys" loved it, I felt like I was on display at a 'happy bar', dressed up in pink!
Got us there and back, at 48 miles per...but, Yikes! Like flying an L-19, with Zekes swarmin' all around!
Brother-in-law asked me if it could be fitted with a tow hitch. I looked underneath. I laughed.
(like using a 54" Comet Taylorcraft for a tow tug!)

I still use my '55 Ford F100 (2nd gen. 350 Chev V-8, 350 Turbo-Hydro trans, 9" Ford rear axle) for all my trailer towing. Bed has a naugahyde tarp, hauls C/L planes nicely. (have a 4'X6' shelf that slides in for two-levels, wife Joey's Oriental will fit on top, my Gee Bee and whatever else fits under)
This was my shop truck since 1972. (got it for $60) All new underneath, truck has been a support vehicle for Bonneville LSR cars, (Streamliner, Street Roadsters, Lakester) and Drag cars for years...(Push truck at Bonneville, Fremont Drags, et al)
Ran it thru the traps one Sunday at insistence of laughing pit crew: 13.70 1/4 mile E.T., street tires and mufflers! They stopped laughing!
Insurance on it is a low $420 a year, cheap, regarding its 'classic' status. Upholstery is coming next, then paint...it's earned it.
I also fitted my wife's BMW Coupe with a receiver, but we don't pull anything with that. She informed me that I have a certain amount of time to get that thing off there. I had 2 words.
(yes, Dear)
My eggshell '66 VW bug is also 'hitchless'. When first sold, VWs were touted to be able to 'tow their own weight'. I repaired many of them that had been overtaxed with tow balls and air conditioning.
My Super Stock '63-1/2 Ford Galaxie Fastback is fitted with a tow ball/receiver. It is hidden behind the rear license plate. (it is a 'droll' way to flat tow my '54 Ford Coupe 'C' Gasser to the drags: '54 has a 406 Ford F.E. mill, similar to the one in the Galaxie) This is the only towing that car will do. (just for a 'lark')
Towing should be kept in perspective. This was an interesting thread.

Steve Scott · « **Reply #49 on:** October 31, 2008, 10:16:32 AM »

Quote from: Arlan McKee on October 29, 2008, 06:15:38 AM

The biggest concern to me would be the transmission. Front wheel drives with their transverse mounted automatics aren't known for their strength and durability. Rebuild costs for front wheel drives are generally well over $2000 and thats not because they're any more difficult to rebuild, but because of the high probability that they will fail again within the warranty period. Then there is the tinker toy suspension connecting these cars to their beer can chassis. Those Toyotas have dog bones instead of ball joints and control arms.

We bought an '07 Camry Hybrid to replace our 4 cyl '92 Camry LE 18 months ago. Toyota uses an ingenous split power device in it's hybrids where the entire variable speed tranny is very compact and contains just 6 gears - a sun gear in the middle, 4 planetary gears and a outer ring gear. Coupled to two independent motor-generator units and the 2.4 gas engine, it's a very simple and reliable unit. The newer Camry hybrid is bigger, much roomier on the inside, heavier, has better acceleration than the gas only older Camry we also decided to keep. Old Camry gets about 22mpg in town, 26 or so on the hwy. The hybrid averages 37-38mpg in combined driving.

Still, the manufacturer does not recommend towing. The underside on the hybrids is sealed with a steel sheet which makes for less wind resistance. The major consumer magazines report the hybrids are as reliable or MORE reliable than their gas only siblings.

The major downside is we lose about 25% of our trunk space due to the NiMH battery compartment. All the hybrid components (including batteries) are warranted for 8 years/100,000 miles. Good for 10 years in California.

And finally, gas price today in the Twin Cities was $1.99

Author Topic: Towing with a Hybrid (Read 11022 times)

Willis Swindell