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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Tony Drago on February 13, 2018, 08:23:43 AM

Title: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Tony Drago on February 13, 2018, 08:23:43 AM
Heard that the Tower Hobbies in Reno NV. is now closed.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Chad Hill on February 13, 2018, 09:40:48 AM
I ordered some spare OS parts from the main warehouse in Champaign Il in mid-January. They shipped the next day, and I received the order in full a few days later. I did read in a news report, however, that that warehouse was supposed to close at the end of January. Since my order, I have received several discount coupon emails from Tower.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Mike Griffin on February 13, 2018, 05:40:17 PM
I think they are struggling and may not make it.  They are out of stock on a lot of product.

Mike
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: GERALD WIMMER on February 13, 2018, 05:46:21 PM
Suppose that means we should all look at their web site and find something we need to buy.  #^
Not sure if Stunt-hangar members alone can prop it up .
Seen too many hobby stores go in my time.
Regards Gerald
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Fredvon4 on February 13, 2018, 06:09:04 PM
As Hobbico struggles with trying to find a new owner and CH 11 bankruptcy ----I suspect more and more delayed and back orders...some to never be filled like Super Tiger parts and Engines for last three years...Top Flite Luster coast seems to be dead and gone now

I hope they survive
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Vincent Judd on February 14, 2018, 11:10:47 AM
I'm afraid it's a warning sign.  Our hobby is on life support, it figures that the hobby shops would be as well.  As much as we try to get the youngsters involved, there just doesn't seem to be as much interest.  Too many distractions I guess.  It's not only the kids, it's their parents.  I remember working with my Dad, building our first Ringmaster in the basement.  Crash, rebuild.  Repeat over and over.  Flying in the cold Michigan winters.  Who does that with their kids anymore?  It's not just our hobby, it's everywhere.  NASCAR, NHRA, golf, most of the professional sports are suffering from declining attendance/participation.  Kids today just want to sit in front of the TV playing video games.  They want instant gratification, they don't want to sit there and take months to build their pride and joy.  You can criticize the ARF, ARC movement, but at least it's keeping some people interested and maybe even bringing in a few new ones. 

Our local RC club has had days devoted to teaching kids how to fly.  We got very little interest and finally gave up on the idea.  Very sad.

Getting back to ordering from Tower, I needed some "hobby stuff" lately and went to my go to places, Tower and Horizon.  Many of the items were out of stock.  Huh?  Never saw that before.  Just on a whim, I went to my other go to place, Amazon.  I was able to find everything I needed.  Not substitutes, the actual stuff I was looking for.  I was amazed.  Being a Prime member, I also got free 2 day shipment on everything. 

Just wanted to point out that if you need something and can't find it in the usual places, check Amazon.  In the mean time, I'm praying that Hobbico and all it's subsidiaries will be able to reorganize and stay afloat.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Tim Chenevert on February 14, 2018, 11:32:05 AM
I feel Vincent is right about our sport and the venders who sell the support products. It is really sad. In my day we rode our bicycles to the hobby store and bought what we needed. We built planes and flew rockets and that taught us how to do things, how to build things and to save our money for what we really wanted! Sad to see the decline in parts, kits, stores and the people ( kids ). Tim
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Geoff Goodworth on February 14, 2018, 11:56:08 PM
Vincent, I too, fear that you are correct.

I didn't do a lot with my dad—a child of the depression, he was pretty smart but not well qualified so he had to live off his wits.
I used to build all my own stuff—battle ships out of pieces of wood, etc, then plastic kits then control line models.

My kids are now 32 and 26 and when they were young, I the devil's own job prising them away from what I called the electronic baby sitter.

I too, have watched the hobby shops morph into toy shops to the extent that even though there were OS LA 40 and 46 engines in the show cases of what was once the premier hobby shop in Sydney, I had to ask for the OS catalogue to show the counter jumper—I couldn't call him a salesman—what I wanted when I needed a new wrist pin for an LA/FP 40. 

It's sad really.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Brett Buck on February 15, 2018, 12:23:12 AM
I'm afraid it's a warning sign.  Our hobby is on life support, it figures that the hobby shops would be as well.  As much as we try to get the youngsters involved, there just doesn't seem to be as much interest.  Too many distractions I guess.  It's not only the kids, it's their parents. 

    I think that is the result of several generations of the same problem, specifically, it's more or less incomprehensible to kids, and their parents, that you would go out and do something, anything, that is not organized into a league/group/etc. by someone else. Kids don't go out to an empty lot and play baseball, mom signs them up for baseball, takes them there, monitors their every move, takes the home again.

   And the notion that would could start with a stack of raw materials and end up with some end product is so far out of their experience that that can't even imagine doing it. A very good friend of mine was complaining about her husband buying a Shopsmith and building a few pieces of furniture. When he was done, she wanted to sell all the tools, because he had finished the furniture, and also, she thought it was a big waste, because she could have bought a sideboard at a furniture store for the cost of the materials and equipment. She put no value whatsoever in the effort and care that when into it nor the gain if skills and knowledge it took, or how her husband and son spent a lot of time together working on it. She had her furniture, why continue with all that noisy stuff in the garage?  This is not some harpie or ignoramus, it was just something so foreign to her world that she just didn't grasp it.

    CL airplanes are not even an issue, and trying to explain why CL in particular is doing good or bad is more-or-less pointless. We are talking about the 800-lb gorilla of hobby suppliers unable to make it any more selling RC toys. It doesn't even effect us directly, we will still be able to get anything we need for the foreseeable future, Tower/Hobbico/Great Planes notwithstanding. But you can't fight the larger problem, the world has moved on whether we think it is stupid and shortsided or not.

    Brett

   
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Bill Morell on February 15, 2018, 07:33:32 AM
    I think that is the result of several generations of the same problem, specifically, it's more or less incomprehensible to kids, and their parents, that you would go out and do something, anything, that is not organized into a league/group/etc. by someone else. Kids don't go out to an empty lot and play baseball, mom signs them up for baseball, takes them there, monitors their every move, takes the home again.

   And the notion that would could start with a stack of raw materials and end up with some end product is so far out of their experience that that can't even imagine doing it. A very good friend of mine was complaining about her husband buying a Shopsmith and building a few pieces of furniture. When he was done, she wanted to sell all the tools, because he had finished the furniture, and also, she thought it was a big waste, because she could have bought a sideboard at a furniture store for the cost of the materials and equipment. She put no value whatsoever in the effort and care that when into it nor the gain if skills and knowledge it took, or how her husband and son spent a lot of time together working on it. She had her furniture, why continue with all that noisy stuff in the garage?  This is not some harpie or ignoramus, it was just something so foreign to her world that she just didn't grasp it.

    CL airplanes are not even an issue, and trying to explain why CL in particular is doing good or bad is more-or-less pointless. We are talking about the 800-lb gorilla of hobby suppliers unable to make it any more selling RC toys. It doesn't even effect us directly, we will still be able to get anything we need for the foreseeable future, Tower/Hobbico/Great Planes notwithstanding. But you can't fight the larger problem, the world has moved on whether we think it is stupid and shortsided or not.

    Brett

   

True story!
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Mike Griffin on February 15, 2018, 11:54:59 AM
    I think that is the result of several generations of the same problem, specifically, it's more or less incomprehensible to kids, and their parents, that you would go out and do something, anything, that is not organized into a league/group/etc. by someone else. Kids don't go out to an empty lot and play baseball, mom signs them up for baseball, takes them there, monitors their every move, takes the home again.

   And the notion that would could start with a stack of raw materials and end up with some end product is so far out of their experience that that can't even imagine doing it. A very good friend of mine was complaining about her husband buying a Shopsmith and building a few pieces of furniture. When he was done, she wanted to sell all the tools, because he had finished the furniture, and also, she thought it was a big waste, because she could have bought a sideboard at a furniture store for the cost of the materials and equipment. She put no value whatsoever in the effort and care that when into it nor the gain if skills and knowledge it took, or how her husband and son spent a lot of time together working on it. She had her furniture, why continue with all that noisy stuff in the garage?  This is not some harpie or ignoramus, it was just something so foreign to her world that she just didn't grasp it.

    CL airplanes are not even an issue, and trying to explain why CL in particular is doing good or bad is more-or-less pointless. We are talking about the 800-lb gorilla of hobby suppliers unable to make it any more selling RC toys. It doesn't even effect us directly, we will still be able to get anything we need for the foreseeable future, Tower/Hobbico/Great Planes notwithstanding. But you can't fight the larger problem, the world has moved on whether we think it is stupid and shortsided or not.

    Brett

   

Brett you put this about as well as it could be said.  I concur wholeheartedly as sad as it is to me personally. 

Mike
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Fredvon4 on February 15, 2018, 12:54:51 PM
Not too sure how many possible renaissances for growing population back to OUR YOUTH can happen in the future as every generation was less and less exposed to garage/basement building... be it radio, cars,boats, airplanes, drones  (yes Virginia there are folks home brewing drones)

I lost track of the numbers of US baby Boomers ... I am closing in on 63....not sure how many are left to enter retirement, remember the toys of youth, and want to be like a lot of us and RETREAD.... perhaps still several million...I just don't know

No matter... this would be last generation to have the memory of post WWII toys and the high interest in a LOT of things Military or space

We are all some product of out personal life's experiences. what was popular, cool, envious of....

I can conceptually be romantically enthusiastic about some 1875 living in the wild wild west but rapidly wonder how I would enjoy that with out a stupid cold coke-cola from a refrigerator and a flush toilet

I remember first TV and a real Transistor radio.... of course large family with little disposable income...we envied the richer kids and parents...so dad wanted to have some of the good stuff... found Heath Kit and he and I toiled hours and hours to understand and self teach electronics to ultimately have a working TV and Stereo pre amp and we even had to Build the testing and calibration tools

I had another thought for the future.... how many millions did the instant gratification thing with toys and were some what disappointed and now 30 ~40 years later... are seeking the fun BUT with more disposable income willing to re-explore some same or similar leisure time activity

Yes times, interests, and technology changed... but I think there is hope for some hobbies...actually thee are some very interesting state of the art changes to a LOT we do and have fin with..... who would have ever thought we could actually get a light enough battery to haul a big assed plane all over the sky and go home with out the slime   (still a IC snob..but just me)

Son and I built a RC 10 electric race car back around 1984.....he raced it locally in VA and was somewhat competitive.... I tried hard to get him the best of the best costume rewound motors and Hand selected Batteries and high end chargers....  these things today are very easy and relatively inexpensive to find

Future the same as we remember....no... are we near the total demise of true model building and fun or professional competition... no

Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Robin_Holden on February 15, 2018, 01:24:07 PM
Hi guys from a chilly North Yorkshire , England . It’s very sad , our hobby is disintegrating. So many happy memories after discovering the magic of aero modelling when I was 10 years old. My first kit , around 1956 ,  it was a Veron brand rubber powered Chiltern Monoplane . It cost the equivalent of 30 cents U.S. After that I was hooked. My first engine , a Mills .75. Took me a while to get the hang of starting the little monster , but it was great fun.
Most days after school I would stop off at one of the Hobby shops on the way home on the bus. Then it was time spent on the building board after dinner in the evening. During the summer my pal and I would be on our bicycles with our C/L models strapped to our backs on the way to the local park . No silencers , we just flew and flew until we ran out of fuel or crashed ! The sheer joy of getting a load of balsa together and knocking up a Peacemaker with a noisy 2.5 (.15 cu. ins. ) diesel  up front. We never missed Friday Club Night . Ogling the older club members latest Thunderbird or Nobler . Happy days. We certainly all owe a huge debt of thanks to the like of Bob Palmer and George Aldrich .
I for one will keep it up this great hobby of ours.

Regards ,

Robin.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Gary Dowler on February 15, 2018, 01:26:30 PM
    I think that is the result of several generations of the same problem, specifically, it's more or less incomprehensible to kids, and their parents, that you would go out and do something, anything, that is not organized into a league/group/etc. by someone else. Kids don't go out to an empty lot and play baseball, mom signs them up for baseball, takes them there, monitors their every move, takes the home again.

   And the notion that would could start with a stack of raw materials and end up with some end product is so far out of their experience that that can't even imagine doing it. A very good friend of mine was complaining about her husband buying a Shopsmith and building a few pieces of furniture. When he was done, she wanted to sell all the tools, because he had finished the furniture, and also, she thought it was a big waste, because she could have bought a sideboard at a furniture store for the cost of the materials and equipment. She put no value whatsoever in the effort and care that when into it nor the gain if skills and knowledge it took, or how her husband and son spent a lot of time together working on it. She had her furniture, why continue with all that noisy stuff in the garage?  This is not some harpie or ignoramus, it was just something so foreign to her world that she just didn't grasp it.

    CL airplanes are not even an issue, and trying to explain why CL in particular is doing good or bad is more-or-less pointless. We are talking about the 800-lb gorilla of hobby suppliers unable to make it any more selling RC toys. It doesn't even effect us directly, we will still be able to get anything we need for the foreseeable future, Tower/Hobbico/Great Planes notwithstanding. But you can't fight the larger problem, the world has moved on whether we think it is stupid and shortsided or not.

    Brett

   
Very well said, Brett, very well said.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: John Watson on February 15, 2018, 04:56:53 PM
If all the US vendors belly up it will be the overseas vendors we would have to turn to. Tower doesn't really have anything C/L. Brodak is go to for C/L.

Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Peter Nevai on February 15, 2018, 06:25:45 PM
The world has certainly moved on. Technology has made it increasingly easy to reach almost anyone on the planet, resulting in marketers fighting for the attention of the mass market. People are bombarded with marketing campaigns tailored to the individual. Kids have so many choices thrown at them right in their homes via just about every electronic device so that they need not go out and look for something to do. Just sit back and download games and entertainment that covers every possible adventure, location, activity imaginable. You can play NFL football, Basket Ball, Base Ball, you can surf, you can fight any war....... on and on ad infinitum.

It has grown to such alarming proportions that several national health agencies have even given it a medical term "Technology Addiction" and passed laws governing how much time kids can spend in the virtual world. It is a real and growing problem. As Brett said it is a generational problem. Once air and space travel became almost common place kids and adults lost interest. Air travel is deemed mass transportation nowadays, and we are renting Russians to get us up and back from the ISS.

Many material science and engineering workers are growing gray with fewer and fewer young people entering those fields, while there is a glut in just about any IT related field you examine.  There are still those who gravitate towards fields that require direct hands on, but those are getting fewer and fewer as advanced CAD CAM robotic machine shops advance in capability. So there you have it, short of a cosmic event that generates a EMP pulse large enough to wipe most every electronic device I do not see people reverting back to doing things by hand, or even taking interest outside of the few niche enthusiasts like us.

All we can hope for is to maintain enough visibility that those with disposable income and enough time become interested enough to give our hobby a try. As mentioned ARF's and ARC's are the vector that mitigates many of the hurdles a newcomer faces joining the hobby. Some will progress to trying to build their own, many will not, most will tire of it and move on. All that can be hoped for is that enough of a cottage industry remains to keep the hobby from going the way of the buggy whip.

Visibility is the only thing going for the hobby CLPA particularly. Because no matter how you cut it when we fly we draw attention, it's the one unavoidable fact. We participate in a curious activity, which is close in to potential spectators. We are not consigned to large open out of the way spaces that RC requires. We just need to remember that not all visibility is necessarily good. So when we fly we need to step on as few toes as possible. Use a Muffler, Be courteous to others in a shared space environment, be nice, and be out going to inquiries. It is the only thing we have to compete with the technological realm because it is harder for people to get all immersed in their technology when they are outside, away from their Wifi Hot spots, and screens with poor performance in sunlight.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Mike Griffin on February 16, 2018, 07:48:31 AM
There are several facebook groups that deal with control line flying and components and it seems that there is still a fairly strong contingent of CL hobbyist in foreign countries as well as other aspects of flying models.  Whether is be here or overseas, I think the hobby is suffering from attrition that everyone else has mentioned.

Mike
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Brett Buck on February 16, 2018, 10:07:40 AM
There are several facebook groups that deal with control line flying and components and it seems that there is still a fairly strong contingent of CL hobbyist in foreign countries as well as other aspects of flying models.  Whether is be here or overseas, I think the hobby is suffering from attrition that everyone else has mentioned.

        As mentioned above, CL in particular is doing relatively well. We aren't suffering the sort of massive collapse that the modeling hobby in the large seems to be suffering. We have two large suppliers, RSM and Brodak, and a host of cottage industries. The result is that you can get better stuff more easily than you could at any time in the past, as far as stunt goes. The stuff we actually need from major industries (raw materials like wire, cable, silver solder) will always be available. We will always be able to get 4-40 Allen screws. You can make, and part of the point of the entire event, is to make things yourself.

    Of course, you *could* argue that we have long since "collapsed" from the late 50's-60's where CL was all that held the entire industry together, but that was inevitable as soon as you could buy a 5-channel digital proportional RC set, pre-made, for $200. The boom happened because CL was essentially the only game in town, not because people thought it was particularly great.

       We seem to tend to start with the premise we are failing and then launching immediately into what we can do to "fix" it. I don't see it that way, I think we are succeeding pretty well, and many of the supposed "fixes" seem to cause more problems than they solve, when you look at them objectively.

    As everyone knows, I am a Pollyanna optimist and a "people pleaser" but I genuinely believe we are in a lot better shape than we could be otherwise.

     Brett
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: FLOYD CARTER on February 16, 2018, 01:30:49 PM
It seems impossible for a "big box" hobby retailer to go bust these days with all the interest in high dollar ARF models and those drones.  Must have been some terribly incompetent business management going on.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Fredvon4 on February 16, 2018, 01:48:45 PM
I was sincerely impressed by Brett's observation that I agree with

"We have two large suppliers, RSM and Brodak, and a host of cottage industries. The result is that you can get better stuff more easily than you could at any time in the past, as far as stunt goes. The stuff we actually need from major industries (raw materials like wire, cable, silver solder) will always be available. We will always be able to get 4-40 Allen screws. You can make, and part of the point of the entire event, is to make things yourself. "

We can argue if MECOA buy up of all of FOX parts and tooling and NEVER producing one FOX Item is worthy of angst

For near term in my eyes..... lost Super Tiger and looks like many Top Flight products...like Luster Kote
Norvel, Fora and some other desires engines are scarce...but Hobby King seems to find a way to fill some of the void

Brodak seems to actively try to get new proven stuff into our hands
Randy Smith fills a void as does Dub Jett

many sources for good and near perfect props
many sources for near perfect plans, laser cut wood, parts, tanks, better glues, and indeed I can now find real good wood vs the hit and miss of kit wood....yes I miss Lone Star...

Potential with all the available supplier via inter net is NOW so much better than when I was 15~25...60S~80S
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Peter Nevai on February 16, 2018, 04:59:43 PM
So long as I can still get Dubro Hinges,ball links, horns, tanks, props Monokote and the like I'm good. The one draw back is when the big box suppliers go out the cost of everything goes up. Which does not help the hobby.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Scott Richlen on February 19, 2018, 07:35:09 AM
What concerns me is that current activities are very passive or "passivating".  Too much cultural push for virtual "activities" (not!)  The arrow points in the direction of a lot of adult drones being developed by the current culture where possession is valued over accomplishment (why work hard and train to win when you get a trophy for just showing up?)

However, there are still kids who actually get enthused when given the opportunity to create something with their own hands.  We are now in our 5th year at our first school and this year started activities at an additional Middle School.  My experience is that there are about 10 kids at any given Junior High/Middle School who would like to build model airplanes.  But it only happens if someone goes counter-culture and leads them.

If you want it to happen, you just gotta step up and make it happen!
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Dane Martin on February 19, 2018, 08:10:34 AM
I agree with Brett and Scott on several items here. I only learned what control was about 5 years ago. I actually completely stopped flying RC because of it. I have had no issues finding equipment. I quit flying RC because my favorite part of model airplanes is the building. It's getting reallydifficult to find quality RC kits (was for me. I know they're out there with cottage industry suppliers). BUT! It is extraordinarily easy to call Eric at RSM or John at Brodak and say, hey I wanna do this. .... what do I buy?  Problem solved. New beautiful kit, awesome hardware and loads of advice.
I wanted to fly combat. I went from never actually seeing someone fly combat to winning matches in a year. I said, what do I do? Guys said, go to this site and buy this..... done. Easy peasy.
I agree the hobby is dying down for builders. But overall, I don't think we are hurting yet. But maybe I'm still in the honeymoon phase.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Brett Buck on February 19, 2018, 09:47:21 PM

However, there are still kids who actually get enthused when given the opportunity to create something with their own hands.  We are now in our 5th year at our first school and this year started activities at an additional Middle School.  My experience is that there are about 10 kids at any given Junior High/Middle School who would like to build model airplanes.  But it only happens if someone goes counter-culture and leads them.

       Oh, don't get me wrong or misunderstand. If someone can get sufficient exposure and mom or dad doesn't make them stop, some kids can definitely get jazzed about building something if someone can make it seem real or achievable. But it seems to be so far out of any experience they have had or heard about, they just can't imagine that they could do it. Point to a pile of balsa and say you can make an airplane out of it, and they look at you like you have lost your mind, that's just impossible/incomprehensible to them.

    Of course they *could* do it, they are no less capable than anyone who came before, but they have nothing like that as an experience, even small bits of it - like getting a pocketknife and whittling. Essentially no practical experience with anything at any time. When the air conditioner breaks, dad calls someone and it is magically fixed, when the car breaks down you get a new one, no one gets out the wrenches and attempts to fix it. These are people who rarely even see anyone cook a meal, a meal is something you call and it comes to your door, a box you shove in the microwave. Bake brownies from a mix? Yeah, I saw grandma do that once.

    Brett
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Wayne Collier on February 19, 2018, 11:19:13 PM
Creativity is not completely dead. A coworker recently told me that her son wanted nothing but pvc pipe and fittings for his eighth birthday. I remember when my son and his buddies figured out how to build stuff out of pcv pipe. The real fun was when they figured out how to reshape the pipe with a heat gun. I told my coworker about heat guns. I realize that's a far cry from model airplanes but it does show that creativity can live just about anywhere that raw materials and imagination exists. Don't know what the future of modeling may be but we should have good plumbers for another generation or two?

I think encouraging imagination and design is the key.  I have been blessed with highly creative children that seem to be doing better in their mid 20s than I did. Even if I wasn't able to pass on an interest in model airplanes.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Scott Richlen on February 20, 2018, 06:12:48 AM
Brett and Wayne:

I agree!  But we have to do more than observe and complain.  By doing that we comply with current culture (plus we act like grumpy old men, but that's another story... ;D)

We each have to go "counter-culture".  That doesn't mean we go and picket some person or place (that would be fitting in with current culture.)  To go Counter Culture we need to emulate the wise teacher that teaches children what they need to learn.  I do this by volunteering at a local school to conduct an after-school activity.  It is intended just to keep the kids entertained for two hours so they don't go home to an empty house.  I "hide the learning".  They (teachers, parents, students) think this is just something to entertain them.  They discover that it teaches all kinds of skills and introduces rudimentary STEM knowledge (one of the kids in our first class, 5 years ago, is now a senior in high school and visiting various engineering colleges for enrollment next fall: Success!!!!)

Model airplane builders (FF, CL, or RC) are actually conducting counter-culture activities in their shops.  They need to become activists and fight the coming nanny-drone-world (and here I am referring to human drones, not those stupid ready-made-in-China quad-copter things.)

In a way, all of the Zomby movies are prophetic: a world with half-dead people wandering around asking for "brains, brains!"
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Brett Buck on February 20, 2018, 10:32:57 AM
Brett and Wayne:

I agree!  But we have to do more than observe and complain.  By doing that we comply with current culture (plus we act like grumpy old men, but that's another story... ;D)

We each have to go "counter-culture".

     That's great, but when both mommy and daddy either don't care, or will actively prevent it, that's a problem. Bear in mind, anything you can do requires mommy to haul them, someone to buy the equipment, agree that sure, little Jimmy, you can have a $25 for 100 scalpel blades and go off and hack up some wood and a gallon of "gasoline". Bearing in mind my friend above, who despite being a highly intelligent person, considers any sort of skills development either pointless, worthless,  or a negative thing.

   I have also seen exactly no indication that you can proselytize people into liking CL Stunt, CL, or anything. Bill Osborne's class had thousands of people who learned to fly CL in an organized class sanctioned by the City of Oakland (and/or Alameda). As far as I can tell, and Heman Lee concurred, *not a single person ever came back and flew CL after the class was over".

   Lastly, even I (who would love to see your suggestions work, although I am highly skeptical), might consider the use of the word "counter-culture" or "activist" off-putting. The "counter culture" and "activists" you normally associate with the *very worst elements* of current American society - drug legalizers, "occupy whatever" people, "resistance", and every other evil thing trying to destroy the country. Back in my youth "counter-culture" was communist-inspired hippies, draft-dodgers, drug addicts, and leftists of every stripe. Now we have these same idiots infesting the federal government and spouting the same crap, and using the iron-fisted control of the major news organizations and the power of government (in ways that would make Stalin blush) to force it on the rest of us. Use either word, and you immediately at least somewhat alienate about half the public, and an even higher fraction of likely participants from CL.

     Brett

Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: wwwarbird on February 20, 2018, 06:59:58 PM
 Once again, Brett nails it.  y1

 And back on the subject of Tower, I really do hope they find their way and survive. I was just thinking though, in the nearly 20 years since I returned to the C/L hobby I think I've only ordered from them two or three times.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Randy Cuberly on February 20, 2018, 07:50:02 PM
     That's great, but when both mommy and daddy either don't care, or will actively prevent it, that's a problem. Bear in mind, anything you can do requires mommy to haul them, someone to buy the equipment, agree that sure, little Jimmy, you can have a $25 for 100 scalpel blades and go off and hack up some wood and a gallon of "gasoline". Bearing in mind my friend above, who despite being a highly intelligent person, considers any sort of skills development either pointless, worthless,  or a negative thing.

   I have also seen exactly no indication that you can proselytize people into liking CL Stunt, CL, or anything. Bill Osborne's class had thousands of people who learned to fly CL in an organized class sanctioned by the City of Oakland (and/or Alameda). As far as I can tell, and Heman Lee concurred, *not a single person ever came back and flew CL after the class was over".

   Lastly, even I (who would love to see your suggestions work, although I am highly skeptical), might consider the use of the word "counter-culture" or "activist" off-putting. The "counter culture" and "activists" you normally associate with the *very worst elements* of current American society - drug legalizers, "occupy whatever" people, "resistance", and every other evil thing trying to destroy the country. Back in my youth "counter-culture" was communist-inspired hippies, draft-dodgers, drug addicts, and leftists of every stripe. Now we have these same idiots infesting the federal government and spouting the same crap, and using the iron-fisted control of the major news organizations and the power of government (in ways that would make Stalin blush) to force it on the rest of us. Use either word, and you immediately at least somewhat alienate about half the public, and an even higher fraction of likely participants from CL.

     Brett

I usually find Brett's comments very insightful and in line with my own thinking.  These latest ones in this thread are no exception and I definitely agree with his conclusions.

I sincerely wish there was a solution to this situation but alas I truly believe it does not exist.

Perhaps what we are witnessing is simply the general decay of society that seems to befall all civilizations.  What happens next?  Is there another road.  Personally I doubt it, but then I'm just an old guy approaching the end of the line and admittedly somewhat negative in my beliefs!

As a Christian I feel perhaps what we're experiencing is the Story told in Revelations of the end of things and the beginning of a New and better existence!  I hope that is true!

At any rate thanks for your insights Brett.  They are a bit comforting at least in their familiarity to my own feelings!

Randy Cuberly!
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Brett Buck on February 20, 2018, 08:19:25 PM
By the way, I got put a bit off the topic by the semantics above, but just to be clear - what Scott (and other like him) are doing is an unabashed good thing to be doing, and for sure, if you don't do anything, nothing will happen. So there's nothing negative about doing it.

    My point was more that we shouldn't end up too disappointed if it doesn't end up changing the situation. I would love to be wrong, and hope I am, but I am also comfortable with the idea that the things we find fascinating and challenging do not  engage other people the same way. We can't force people to like CL stunt, and we should just enjoy it for what we have now (which is pretty darn good).

     Brett
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Randy Cuberly on February 20, 2018, 08:28:50 PM
By the way, I got put a bit off the topic by the semantics above, but just to be clear - what Scott (and other like him) are doing is an unabashed good thing to be doing, and for sure, if you don't do anything, nothing will happen. So there's nothing negative about doing it.

    My point was more that we shouldn't end up too disappointed if it doesn't end up changing the situation. I would love to be wrong, and hope I am, but I am also comfortable with the idea that the things we find fascinating and challenging do not  engage other people the same way. We can't force people to like CL stunt, and we should just enjoy it for what we have now (which is pretty darn good).

     Brett

Indeed!  The only logical way to deal with anything!  Even in my negativity I always reserve a corner for hope and space for other opinions! 

Randy Cuberly
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Scott Richlen on February 20, 2018, 08:39:17 PM
I'm not thinking I can change the world.  I'm just pointing out that it is likely that in every Middle School/Junior High in this nation there are about 10 girls and boys who, if given the chance, would really like building model airplanes.

Think how many Junior High/Middle Schools there are in this country!  Multiply by 10.

This, despite a culture that is mostly focused on self-gratification and, basically, a lot of mental onanism.

So, there is hope.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Dan McEntee on February 20, 2018, 09:07:44 PM
   When I started to volunteer at the KidVenture venue at Oshkosh, we decided early on the let ANYONE fly, no age restrictions, no "kids only." In early discussions, I offered my opinion that our target should really be the parents. If you get a parent interested, the kids come with the deal. The parents are the ones with the minivan and the bank account. The parents, especially the Dads but maybe Moms also, are older and more mature, have some experience with things mechanical, and may be looking for a hobby or outside activity, and can appreciate what it takes to build a flying machine and be challenged by the thought of it. I have also preached that you can't point a gun at someone's head and make them like model airplanes and want to build one, but there are people out there like us and they don't know it yet,  that just need the spark, just need the exposure of something that they had never seen or maybe only heard of or saw on YouTube, and their curiosity leads them to search more on this computer thing, and maybe that plants the seed. There won't be the big hoards of people like there used to be, but I believe there are enough people out there with the gene in their DNA that lets them get excited about things like our hobby. In this day and age, aviation does not hold the attraction and romance that it did years ago. The current space race, while interesting, doesn't grab the entire nation like it did in the 60's. It was thought that free flight models would die out in the 60's and 70's but it continues on, and I have read a lot on participants that discovered free flight later in life. That can be the path that any discipline of model aviation can take. We just have to keep putting it out there for people to see and make ourselves available to help and answer questions. There are a few of this kind of newbie that are present right here on this forum. And the computer will make things easier for any newcomer as long as the information is available for them to find. And it has to be on the internet. There are no more magazines out there on drug store magazine racks for them to stumble upon like we did. As old fashioned as I am, I believe we have to learn how to take advantage of the new mediums to reach those that may want to join in on the fun. I think that in this day and age, that is what the AMA can do to promote model aviation, and not just drones and large scale R/C jobs hovering a foot off the ground. They have to make a commitment to promote ALL forms of the hobby as equally as possible. One way to do that would be to find places on the net to place a simple add that mentions the Academy of Model Aeronautics, and has the web address. Place the simple add anywhere and everywhere they can. Something like "Academy of Model Aeronautics, modelaircraft.org, Discover aviation!" or something more catchy. If someone has what I'm talking about inside them, their curiosity will take them to the website, and then see what happens there.We have those little pop up adds on Stunthanger that have nothing to do with model airplanes. Why can't the AMA have little pop up adds on other websites that don't have anything to do with model airplanes?. Enough rambling, it's time for bed!
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: wwwarbird on February 20, 2018, 09:27:21 PM
I'm not thinking I can change the world.  I'm just pointing out that it is likely that in every Middle School/Junior High in this nation there are about 10 girls and boys who, if given the chance, would really like building model airplanes.

Think how many Junior High/Middle Schools there are in this country!  Multiply by 10.

 Not to argue or stir the pot here Scott, but Been There Done That. Our club in Minneapolis has tried many times over many years to go after the exact demographic you describe above. Most recently was about a year ago by providing kits and engines along with tutored, hands-on building and flying sessions that also included all necessary supplies. All the people had to do was show up, of which half or better who had initially expressed interest did not. Admittedly, a percentage of the no-shows can definitely be blamed on the parents, who also have to include support for the idea to work.
 After all these attempts over the years we have had ZERO individuals who have ever continued at all with any of it. Many other clubs and C/L hobbyists nationwide can make this same claim, and reiterate the same stories. Sad as it is, anymore the whole idea is just fantasy. I do hate to sound negative but this simply is the reality.
 If you still disagree with these typically proven results please feel free to pick up the reigns, find your 10 kids, and give it all a try.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Randy Cuberly on February 21, 2018, 12:36:46 AM
Yeah, The Cholla Choppers MAC here in Tucson has had precisely the same results from reach out programs over the years.
We currently have one member under 60 and most are over 70 with a couple in their 80's.

Same old guys who have been doing this since the 50's and 60's.

It's very depressing!

We fly and have fun but it's just not possible to interest younger fliers in this area!

When we're gone I suspect so will be the Cholla Choppers MAC and our field!

Randy Cuberly!
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Scott Richlen on February 21, 2018, 06:48:04 AM
Well guys, I'm not sure what you are doing wrong.  But I can tell you that at 2:30 today I'll be teaching a bunch of 7th and 8th graders how to build model airplanes and again tomorrow at our second school.

I do notice that a lot of people say "I tried that once and it didn't work."  But how far into learning the stunt pattern would you have gotten with that attitude?  Remember that we are working against the prevailing culture.  And 7th and 8th graders are very "flighty".  It can be very disappointing to have one of the kids, who you thought was doing great, just not show up again.  It happens.

But Dan is right about "selling to the parents."  Soccer is now very prevalent these days.  Yet, years ago nobody knew what it was.  So, how did it happen?  It was sold to parents as great exercise, everyone got to play, and it was an alternative to the little league "star" system where you got to ride the bench if you weren't as talented as other kids.  The kids didn't know squat about soccer.  If you followed Dan's idea and sold model building to the parents (in my case, to the after-school activity administrators) you might be surprised at what you could make happen.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Randy Cuberly on February 21, 2018, 12:56:51 PM
Well guys, I'm not sure what you are doing wrong.  But I can tell you that at 2:30 today I'll be teaching a bunch of 7th and 8th graders how to build model airplanes and again tomorrow at our second school.

I do notice that a lot of people say "I tried that once and it didn't work."  But how far into learning the stunt pattern would you have gotten with that attitude?  Remember that we are working against the prevailing culture.  And 7th and 8th graders are very "flighty".  It can be very disappointing to have one of the kids, who you thought was doing great, just not show up again.  It happens.

But Dan is right about "selling to the parents."  Soccer is now very prevalent these days.  Yet, years ago nobody knew what it was.  So, how did it happen?  It was sold to parents as great exercise, everyone got to play, and it was an alternative to the little league "star" system where you got to ride the bench if you weren't as talented as other kids.  The kids didn't know squat about soccer.  If you followed Dan's idea and sold model building to the parents (in my case, to the after-school activity administrators) you might be surprised at what you could make happen.

OK Scott!  That's very admirable!  How about telling us a little about the area you live in and what schools you are teaching at.  I notice like so many "fraidy Cats" on this forum you don't even disclose what part of the dam country you live in!  Perhaps you live in a magical kingdom where everything is like it was 40 years ago!!  I can tell you it just isn't like that here in AZ where the schools are not very receptive to any kind of outside influence.  They have very rigid agenda's and it's nearly impossible to even discuss something like a adding a "modeling activity class to the agenda!  A fairly large portion of the community here in Tucson is Hispanic and they definitely have a different culture and different interests.  I suspect that many parts of the country have similar problems with closed cultures that are not amenable to outside influence!  A fairly large number of the kids that casually visit our field when we're flying don't even speak English very well, and definitely do not have the Desire to actually get involved in anything but soccer, etc.  It's a very different culture than what you seem to live in!

Best of luck with your magic kingdom!   LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~

Randy Cuberly
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: wwwarbird on February 21, 2018, 06:15:06 PM

Well guys, I'm not sure what you are doing wrong.  But I can tell you that at 2:30 today I'll be teaching a bunch of 7th and 8th graders how to build model airplanes and again tomorrow at our second school.


 Wow, that's amazing Scott, I had no idea that all of us who have made countless attempts over these many years have just been "doing it wrong". I'm glad someone finally figured out the problem. A year from now please make sure to update all of us on where your results stand with your current efforts.  D>K
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: GERALD WIMMER on February 21, 2018, 06:37:51 PM
Hello Down here in New Zealand things are no better, with few hobby shops left now and very few youth members of the hobby .
Soccer?! ?!   ??? did not think you got into that in the USA.
I was warned by a fellow C/L flyer that he 'lost' his son to soccer as he was too late getting him into flying and the Mum took him to soccer instead!
For my own sons I banned them from all after school sport except control line and funny enough the only young people flying here are the sons and daughters of keen C/L flyers.
We are scheduled to put on a flying display for a local school soon and I have put on displays for many schools in the past, never get new members from it but at least they know the difference between a C/L model and a drone or R/C model.

Was on the organizing committee for the 'Mini Airshow' at Ellersllie's racetrack in central Auckland and did 'Model X' exhibitions for many years but no new modellers came of any of it but I was fun for us in a way.

Did go to a school (Rosmini College in Takapuna) where the local club (North Shore Model Club) flew off the field behind and also over the school (even during school hours when we were lucky) and that got me hooked!  ;)

Regards Gerald
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Scott Richlen on February 22, 2018, 07:03:47 AM
Quote
Best of luck with your magic kingdom!
  Geez Randy.  I've only been the PAMPA District IV Rep for the last 5 or so years, so you can probably guess what part of the country I live in.

I find it interesting that whenever I talk encouragingly about model airplane building with the kids there is always this chorus of replies to the effect: "we tried  something once and it didn't work" and other statements of discouragement, resentment, and excuses.  Why do you think that is?

As I've said before, this isn't always easy.  And you never know when one of the kids are going to decide they'd rather do something else.  So stamina is important.  Having a positive attitude is also important.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Mike Wada on February 22, 2018, 01:40:03 PM
Howdy All,

If they can still keep B-17s, Spitfires, Mustangs and a whole slew of "Real" World War II airplanes flying, anyone can (who really wants to) can continue to to fly control line till the day you drop dead.  You just really gotta love it and do what it takes.  Might need to get a mini lathe, milling machine and what have you but it can be done.  There are still, as folks have already mentioned, many great vendors like Aero Products, RSM, SIG, Walter Umland, Tom Morris, Kaz Minato, Brodaks, Ebay, and others out there.  And plenty of balsa trees growing somewhere as we speak.  I still feel the loss of the big companies but, as folks have already mentioned the world is moving on and we have to adjust accordingly. 

Mike
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Randy Cuberly on February 22, 2018, 04:48:34 PM
  Geez Randy.  I've only been the PAMPA District IV Rep for the last 5 or so years, so you can probably guess what part of the country I live in.

I find it interesting that whenever I talk encouragingly about model airplane building with the kids there is always this chorus of replies to the effect: "we tried  something once and it didn't work" and other statements of discouragement, resentment, and excuses.  Why do you think that is?

As I've said before, this isn't always easy.  And you never know when one of the kids are going to decide they'd rather do something else.  So stamina is important.  Having a positive attitude is also important.

SO....At last we know!  District IV is the Magic Kingdom!  Fantastic!   UUhhhh No I actually mean "Fantastic" as in Fantasy Land!

The rest of us poor folks who always do everything WRONG are very happy for you perfect people!

 LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~

Randy (Wrong Way) Cuberly!
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Randy Cuberly on February 22, 2018, 04:53:07 PM
Howdy All,

If they can still keep B-17s, Spitfires, Mustangs and a whole slew of "Real" World War II airplanes flying, anyone can (who really wants to) can continue to to fly control line till the day you drop dead.  You just really gotta love it and do what it takes.  Might need to get a mini lathe, milling machine and what have you but it can be done.  There are still, as folks have already mentioned, many great vendors like Aero Products, RSM, SIG, Walter Umland, Tom Morris, Kaz Minato, Brodaks, Ebay, and others out there.  And plenty of balsa trees growing somewhere as we speak.  I still feel the loss of the big companies but, as folks have already mentioned the world is moving on and we have to adjust accordingly. 

Mike

Of course Mike!  But that's not the issue being discussed here!  The issue is that the young people are not going to continue this tradition and when WE are dead so will CL Flying be!

SO BE IT!

Randy Cuberly
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: john e. holliday on February 23, 2018, 12:41:31 PM
Really guys,  most young people today can't afford the kits and engines we have now.  Even back in the day if I didn't get a job picking apples & pears plus throwing hay bales and other little jobs I couldn't have gotten what I did.  Also if the parents are not behind the young people doing things what incentive do they have.   I know of some that once they have finished school,  raised a family have gotten back into control line via someone they knew or saw it on the inter net by accident.   I've been told many times control line is dead.  My reply is, What is this I'm doing then.  I still think some one dropped the ball by not making Model Aviation available to the general public via the magazine racks across the country.   I can't remember how many times I would sit and start reading Air Trails for Young men while Mother did her shopping.   Yes 25 cents was big money but I earned most times helping Mother and Dad.  Now I look at some magazine that I used to buy because they had an article I wanted to save, but at 5+ dollars I put it back on the rack cause most of it can be found on the inter net.   D>K
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Dennis Saydak on February 23, 2018, 12:56:50 PM
The reality as I see it in my area is - Control Line is not yet  dead ................  but the future of Control Line is                    . I'll let you fill in the blanks.

Enjoy what we have while we are still able. The majority of youth today simply do not have the necessary skills nor attention span to spend the time necessary to build models. In todays fast paced world they aren't taught these attributes. JMHO!
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Dave_Trible on February 23, 2018, 01:05:55 PM
Its disappointing to see Tower go down but it looked to me they were mostly about ARF thing and RC that and really didn't contribute much to our 'wing'.  I do find this interesting...If you've been at this long enough Tower and a couple others were the Cursed "XX$@*&^%" for taking out most of the local hobby shops because they undersold the brick and mortar stores.........the Walmart of the hobby business.  Guys might buy glue and props at the hobby shop but engines, kits and whatever were profit makers they ordered from Tower.

Dave
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Dane Martin on February 23, 2018, 01:21:17 PM
I don't think tower is actually going down. They closed the Reno store for whatever reason, but my friend placed orders and they still got filled. He sent an email asking if they were shutting down completely, and they replied no. But all orders will be filled from the other warehouse. He was happy because now that it's not in Reno, NV there is no sales tax on orders. I don't know that I'm happy about any stores closing or people losing jobs.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: wwwarbird on February 24, 2018, 12:27:52 AM
I find it interesting that whenever I talk encouragingly about model airplane building with the kids there is always this chorus of replies to the effect: "we tried  something once and it didn't work" and other statements of discouragement, resentment, and excuses.  Why do you think that is?

As I've said before, this isn't always easy.  And you never know when one of the kids are going to decide they'd rather do something else.  So stamina is important.  Having a positive attitude is also important.

 ...I'll say it again Scott, a year from now please make sure to update all of us on where your results stand with your current (recruiting) efforts.

 I sincerely wish you luck, but I already know the answer.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Scott Richlen on February 24, 2018, 06:10:19 AM
Quote
...I'll say it again Scott, a year from now please make sure to update all of us on where your results stand with your current (recruiting) efforts.

and I'll say it again:
Quote
I find it interesting that whenever I talk encouragingly about model airplane building with the kids there is always this chorus of replies to the effect: "we tried  something once and it didn't work" and other statements of discouragement, resentment, and excuses.  Why do you think that is?
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: peabody on February 24, 2018, 06:40:17 AM
I agree Scott....keep trying
I also know that if an interested bystander's email is captured and he/she is emailed with every event that eventually a (small) percentage will "get off the fence" and want to learn more.

Have fun!
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Dave_Trible on February 24, 2018, 06:49:15 AM
It’s like trout fishing;  the river can be full of fish but it takes the right fly on the right day with the right fish.  They are there to be found but it takes a lot of fishing.

Dave
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Randy Cuberly on February 24, 2018, 10:50:38 AM
and I'll say it again:

Scott,

Not only is that insulting it's simply pure BULLSHIT!  The Cholla Choppers tried many, many, many times over a period of more than 30 years to recruit kids into CL and our Club.  The results were exactly One young man who has since left the Hobby.  He's still a good kid and has become a very nice adult but doesn't fly!

I would add that over the years we have had many fine fliers and at one time had as many as Five national Stunt and one National Carrier Champion (Who's still here by the way).  We had no shortage of interested experienced fliers trying many different things to teach and recruit kids.  The Simple story is that NOTHING worked and I sincerely believe nothing will.  Kids are simply NOT Interested in these kinds of things anymore.  Cell Phones, Texting friends, and God only knows what else is what they do.  They are not interested in Building anything...ANYTHING!  Buy is the Keyword today and probably will be forever!

OK...Go put your head back in the sand and I'll leave you alone!

Randy Cuberly
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Larry Renger on February 24, 2018, 02:13:24 PM
Over the years the Knights of the Round Circle has trained a couple of thousand kids. First with the Cox PT-19, and now with the ET1. We hav gotten exactly none of them continuing or joining the club.

When Andy Borgogna and I fly at. The local park, kids just walk by.

It is indeed sad!
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Scott Richlen on February 24, 2018, 02:47:24 PM
Quote
The Simple story is that NOTHING worked and I sincerely believe nothing will.  Kids are simply NOT Interested in these kinds of things anymore.

Well darn!  Those pictures of kids building model airplanes that I posted must have been photo-shopped or something!  Who woulda known?

This is truly awful!  I've been building model airplanes for the last 5 years with Junior High kids that are simply NOT interested in these kinds of things anymore.  How could I have been so wrong about this?  Boy, did they pull the wool over my eyes!  I guess I won't be doing that  anymore!

But, I'm still sorta wondering why some of you are so invested in discouragement, resentment, excuses?   Anyone want to take a stab
 at answering that?  Anyone?  Anyone?  Hmmmmm...

Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: wwwarbird on February 24, 2018, 04:06:56 PM

 ...I've been building model airplanes for the last 5 years with Junior High kids that are simply NOT interested in these kinds of things anymore.  How could I have been so wrong about this?  Boy, did they pull the wool over my eyes!  I guess I won't be doing that  anymore!


 How many of those kids are now active, competent C/L builders and flyers? How many of them are now out flying on a regular basis?
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Scott Richlen on February 24, 2018, 05:05:04 PM
But, I'm still sorta wondering why some of you are so invested in discouragement, resentment, excuses?   Anyone want to take a stab
 at answering that?  Anyone?  Anyone?  Hmmmmm...
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: wwwarbird on February 24, 2018, 05:15:02 PM

 How about answering the above question?
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Scott Richlen on February 24, 2018, 06:00:26 PM
If you had read any of my posts you'd have known that your question is completely irrelevant.  The issue was "interest" and whether or not kids had an interest in model airplanes.  Some of you are so invested in being negative that you apparently didn't bother to read or understand my posts (or even look at the pictures for that matter.)

So why do you think that you have to "prove" that kids don't like model airplanes (in your case, control line)?  On the basis of some of the comments made, I suppose that any kid that wanted to join your club would be immediately driven off: "What?  Interested in model airplanes?  You can't be!  I know that you can't be!  Off with you!!"
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: john e. holliday on February 24, 2018, 06:03:54 PM
I think I can answer for him.  If he is still getting the kids out to fly just for the fun of it with supplied planes they might be out.  I know in all my years of helping young people very, very few stayed with it in their own.   Most went into RC because they could get planes ready to fly just for flying.  No competition as such.  Just getting together and flying.  But, if Scott is having fun doing this I say thanks to him.    H^^
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: wwwarbird on February 24, 2018, 07:14:40 PM
If you had read any of my posts you'd have known that your question is completely irrelevant.  The issue was "interest" and whether or not kids had an interest in model airplanes.  Some of you are so invested in being negative that you apparently didn't bother to read or understand my posts (or even look at the pictures for that matter.)

So why do you think that you have to "prove" that kids don't like model airplanes (in your case, control line)?  On the basis of some of the comments made, I suppose that any kid that wanted to join your club would be immediately driven off: "What?  Interested in model airplanes?  You can't be!  I know that you can't be!  Off with you!!"

 Let's quit tiptoeing around my simple question Scott, and enough with the insults.
 
 Explaining again, these efforts, attempts, and monetary investments have been made by countless C/L clubs and individual C/L hobbyists over the years. The search for new youth (or anyone) that may be "interested" in Control Line modeling has, 99% of the time, been with the primary hope and goal of growing the numbers of long term participants in our hobby. This is not about just deciding whether kids "like model airplanes" or not, it's about finding and securing a general commitment and regular participation in the C/L hobby.
 
 History over at least the past 20 years has proven that it is extremely rare that this end goal is ever achieved. I do commend you for your own efforts, but if your tutoring events are happening as part of a normal school day you can bet that 95% of the kids locked in that pen are not "interested", they're just stuck there daydreaming until the bell rings. Either way, showing and explaining to them how to build a model airplane is great, but it's only a small first step in achieving the true goal. If they don't continue with it for at least some time afterward, it's just another failed attempt.

 Now, you tell us you have tutored many "interested" students over at least the last 5 years, how many of them have continued their participation in the C/L hobby???

 I've made my guess, and welcome to the club.  D>K
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Randy Cuberly on February 24, 2018, 10:46:42 PM
I'm betting my guess is exactly the same!  Welcome to the club!   LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~

It's tough to admit failure!  I know I do it all the time!  Nothing wrong with continuing to try as long as you're not kidding yourself into thinking you're actually accomplishing anything!

Randy Cuberly
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Steve Helmick on February 25, 2018, 01:22:24 AM
My best hope is that those we've taught to fly (even if marginally), may eventually come to think about doing it again. You know, sometime in the very distant future, like so many of us.  D>K Steve
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Scott Richlen on February 25, 2018, 06:07:04 AM
Randy and Wayne:

Okay, so you still haven't looked at the pictures or even noted what I was saying.  If you weren't so enthusiastic in your negativity, maybe you'd realize something.  Look at what you have posted and answer my question: why are you so invested in discouragement, resentment, excuses?
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Jim Mynes on February 25, 2018, 06:42:28 AM
I thought this thread was about Tower Hobbies.

Why can’t everybody put their energy into promoting the hobby rather than tearing each other’s heads off?
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: RC Storick on February 25, 2018, 07:05:30 AM
Our policy should be found that we rely upon the principle of attraction rather than of promotion. This has been modified from one of the most successful programs in the world. (Anyone care to guess?)

This being said we should focus on getting back into the public eye. Exhibitions at Hobby Shops, schools, little league baseball game half times intermissions. Here is the best of all if not one person shows up to your club meeting you got to fly and show off. Give that a try.

Now to this other issue "TOWER HOBBIES" I have no answer and everyone is free to debate this issue as long as no personal attacks are implied. I hate censorship and I have received a report on this thread now so everyone is advised.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: EddyR on February 25, 2018, 12:37:46 PM
 I have flown FF CL and RC in that order from the late 1940's and I do not remember any huge or even large interest in CL flying. I lived in NYS and went to contest in NY,NJ Pa and Canada many times. The attendance was around 20-30 at largest contests. There were larger events but not that often.
 I went to some combat only contests in Pa in the 1960's and was maybe 3o entries and that was the biggest single event contest  I ever attended. 
  Binghamton NY where I lived was one of the hot beds of CL flying for the north east. There was a total of ten guys at the weekend flying sessions and maybe 50 different guys who flew CL over a 30 year period. That is not a lot of interest. I worked in two hobby shops and had a good feel for what was happening. There was a lot of show up one time and never come back even then. They would number in the hundred if you counted them all. Yes the 1957 Nats was huge but that is not typical of the week end group. The age group has changed a lot. In 1955 in my area the age group spanned 10-30years. I do not remember any old guys and not many under ten. There were a few who fathers built there models and they showed up until they got to 15-16.  RC contest took off big time around 1957. Locally we had the largest RC club in the US for a few years. In the mid 1960's at on RC field there would be 30 guys waiting to fly on any weekend.
  Yes we are a dying group but it is not that kids are lazy today they just have other challenges.
  I see the images of large groups waiting to fly a trainer. There is no interest beyond the novelty of doing some thing different.
  If some feel they need to do this then good for them.
EddyR 
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: john e. holliday on February 25, 2018, 01:17:23 PM
I truly think that Tower Hobbies did like most com[anise that are down sizing now.   I think they supplied Americas Hobby Center in the early days,  but then they started cutting their own throat by going direct sales to customers.   An individual would come in the store and look at a kit or engine and discover they could get it cheaper from Tower directly.  I remember getting SIG kits direct from SIG because the hobby shop would not put them on the shelf.   Also I think Brodak would say get from local hobby shop.   I know for sure one year he supplied all the stuff at a Nationals and the local hobby shop ran the sales at the field.  I do order from Tower when I can get some items in bulk.   So now when I need some thing I head to local hobby shop,   if they don't have it (also been told they would not order it)  I go to Tower. D>K   
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Brett Buck on February 25, 2018, 01:55:46 PM
I truly think that Tower Hobbies did like most com[anise that are down sizing now.   I think they supplied Americas Hobby Center in the early days,  but then they started cutting their own throat by going direct sales to customers.   An individual would come in the store and look at a kit or engine and discover they could get it cheaper from Tower directly.

   Of course, that's the mechanism that destroyed local hobby shops, and is now destroying nearly all brick-and-mortar stores. And I would add, the stores aren't really doing themselves any favors, either. I would prefer to go to hobby shops, or other real-life stores, over on-line ordering, as long as they don't require a long side trip.

   But as an example, I tried most of the week to buy a replacement for my 30+ year old cordless drill (can't get batteries any more and it's very tired). Swell, I check the Lowe's website, there are 5 of the one I want at the store that I drive by on the way home from work every day. Dandy, I go over there, look around, lots of other DeWalt drills, but not that one. Ask someone, they grunt "I dunno" and wander off. OK, swell, I can get them to bring it to the front desk if I do "deliver to store" on the website. I go over, sure enough, still 5 of them listed in stock, order, "deliver to store, available in 2 hours". Get an email saying "it's available now". 4 hours later, I go over, kid says, OK, I will have to go get it out of the back room, wanders off. Even the other counter rats see me waiting for 45 minutes and call him, no answer.

    Eventually, he wanders back, sorry, I guess we don't have that, if you want to go to the Pleasanton store, they show they have it. This is 8:30 at night, Pleasanton is 40 miles away through impassible traffic. Of course, there is no reason to believe that Pleasanton's inventory or service is any better. I have no idea whether they have 5 of those drills in this store, probably they do, but no one can find them, why will it be different elsewhere?

   My solution - go to Amazon, hit the "buy it now button", drill shows up on my doorstep 10:30 the next morning, $30 off and free delivery.

    Hobby shops are getting undercut and they have no recourse. If I go to J&M Hobbies in San Carlos (one of the last classic shops) they go get what I need immediately. Other stores are doing it to themselves, and I have no symapthy for them.

    Brett
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: FLOYD CARTER on February 25, 2018, 04:38:27 PM
The subject has morphed from a mail-order going out of business, through "what's wrong with the hobby", to "not enough young people", etc.

All of this might be true,  Deserves  separate topics dealing with each of the concerns.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: wwwarbird on February 25, 2018, 07:50:14 PM
Randy and Wayne:

Okay, so you still haven't looked at the pictures or even noted what I was saying.  If you weren't so enthusiastic in your negativity, maybe you'd realize something.  Look at what you have posted and answer my question: why are you so invested in discouragement, resentment, excuses?

 I have read everything stated on both sides here Scott including yours, which frankly, has turned into a waste of time. For whatever reason you have been completely ignoring and/or sidestepping acknowledgement of the simple points that are being explained to you, points that have been proven in the C/L world time and time again. You are seeing honest replies from some very experienced C/L hobbyists who have been involved with these recruiting attempts countless times. If you would step out of your bubble and pay attention you might begin to realize that the explanations have absolutely NOTHING to do with anyone being "so invested in discouragement, resentment, excuses" as you accuse. The explanations are just an attempt to convey the proven REALITY of the situation to you. And, as you also accuse, no one here is "enthusiastic" in this "negativity" or likes it either, it's just the way it is.

 Now, I've answered your question, it's time for you to answer mine:  You claim to have tutored many new "interested" C/L candidates over at least the past five years, how many of them have continued their participation in the C/L hobby???

Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: wwwarbird on February 25, 2018, 08:02:29 PM
The subject has morphed from a mail-order going out of business, through "what's wrong with the hobby", to "not enough young people", etc.

All of this might be true,  Deserves  separate topics dealing with each of the concerns.

 You're right Floyd, and I apologize for my part in dismantling Tony's original post. It's just that Scott eventually pissed me off with his assumed and offensive accusations made to myself and others.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Randy Cuberly on February 25, 2018, 09:15:11 PM
   Of course, that's the mechanism that destroyed local hobby shops, and is now destroying nearly all brick-and-mortar stores. And I would add, the stores aren't really doing themselves any favors, either. I would prefer to go to hobby shops, or other real-life stores, over on-line ordering, as long as they don't require a long side trip.

   But as an example, I tried most of the week to buy a replacement for my 30+ year old cordless drill (can't get batteries any more and it's very tired). Swell, I check the Lowe's website, there are 5 of the one I want at the store that I drive by on the way home from work every day. Dandy, I go over there, look around, lots of other DeWalt drills, but not that one. Ask someone, they grunt "I dunno" and wander off. OK, swell, I can get them to bring it to the front desk if I do "deliver to store" on the website. I go over, sure enough, still 5 of them listed in stock, order, "deliver to store, available in 2 hours". Get an email saying "it's available now". 4 hours later, I go over, kid says, OK, I will have to go get it out of the back room, wanders off. Even the other counter rats see me waiting for 45 minutes and call him, no answer.

    Eventually, he wanders back, sorry, I guess we don't have that, if you want to go to the Pleasanton store, they show they have it. This is 8:30 at night, Pleasanton is 40 miles away through impassible traffic. Of course, there is no reason to believe that Pleasanton's inventory or service is any better. I have no idea whether they have 5 of those drills in this store, probably they do, but no one can find them, why will it be different elsewhere?

   My solution - go to Amazon, hit the "buy it now button", drill shows up on my doorstep 10:30 the next morning, $30 off and free delivery.

    Hobby shops are getting undercut and they have no recourse. If I go to J&M Hobbies in San Carlos (one of the last classic shops) they go get what I need immediately. Other stores are doing it to themselves, and I have no symapthy for them.

    Brett

I used to go to J&M Hobbies in San Carlos whenever I visited Raytheon's vendor there in San Carlos.  Wish I could find an excuse to spend a day there again!  Reminds me of ACE Hobbies in KC when I was in High school.  Great memories!  Great to know they still exist!  Wonderful place with beautiful Stunters hanging overhead.  A lot of Ted's Stuff and some from a unknown flier (unknown to me at least that copied Ted's stuff to a 'T'.  Ted told me a funny anecdote about that once!

Too bad about the state of things in the Hobby industry today.  You're absolutely right though when you said they really contributed to the whole mess themselves!

Randy Cuberly
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Brett Buck on February 25, 2018, 09:40:22 PM
I used to go to J&M Hobbies in San Carlos whenever I visited Raytheon's vendor there in San Carlos.  Wish I could find an excuse to spend a day there again!  Reminds me of ACE Hobbies in KC when I was in High school.  Great memories!  Great to know they still exist!  Wonderful place with beautiful Stunters hanging overhead.  A lot of Ted's Stuff and some from a unknown flier (unknown to me at least that copied Ted's stuff to a 'T'.  Ted told me a funny anecdote about that once!

    That would be Mr. Paul "Peppy" Pomposo, notorious Ted Fancher afficiando and an absolutely wonderful builder and finisher. He has been flying with us since he was a teenager, over at the Redwood City sewer plant site, now he is in his 40s. Great guy, and boundless enthusiasm.  Also, another one of those builders that would be nationally known and a possible Concours winner  - if he could manage to make it all the way across the country to the NATS.

    We have a million Paul stories, but my favorite (Ted likes it too) - I took Paul to his first Golden State contest, maybe 87 or 88. We go down, and its at the old Clovis High School site. You had to park a fair distance away and then carry your stuff out. We are carrying our stuff over, Paul starts seeing the airplanes flying, and takes off trotting, then running, because he's so excited he can't wait!

   He has pretty consistently copied everything Ted has done, and you have to admit, if you are going to pick someone to emulate, Ted Fancher is a pretty good choice.

Quote
Too bad about the state of things in the Hobby industry today.  You're absolutely right though when you said they really contributed to the whole mess themselves!

        Tower/Hobbico/Great Planes has been trying for years to wipe out any competition by exclusive agreements and ruthless undercutting of local hobby shops. That's why you can, er, could get an OS-20FP for $49 - less than a far inferior OS-20S cost in 1973, even in absolute dollars! If you use standard inflation, it should have cost $189. I know, I bought both engines new with my own money. The hobby shops were done in by Tower, much like Standard Oil did in the 1890s.

     Most other brick and mortar stores are doing it to themselves - offering inferior service, impossible-to-locate items in their stores, and higher prices. My Lowe's example was just that, one example, it's common. I would much prefer to get something there, but they made it effectively impossible to find and purchase what I wanted, and really don't seem to care one way or the other. That's fundamentally different from the hobby shops, most of them at least, they have have dandy service - but get undercut on the price, or more often, can't get it at all without going to Tower and paying the same price you and I would on a direct purchase.

   Brett
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Howard Rush on February 26, 2018, 12:26:18 AM
...if he could manage to make it all the way across the country to the NATS.

Ah, the idea of Paul Pomposo in the Midwest. One imagines for whom he would be mistaken, the resulting reaction, and how Paul would react to the reaction.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Brett Buck on February 26, 2018, 12:56:19 AM
Ah, the idea of Paul Pomposo in the Midwest. One imagines for whom he would be mistaken, the resulting reaction, and how Paul would react to the reaction.

   Too clever for me. I have no idea who he looks like.

     Brett
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Scott Richlen on February 26, 2018, 07:03:23 AM
Wayne:

Why do you keep asking
Quote
You claim to have tutored many new "interested" C/L candidates over at least the past five years, how many of them have continued their participation in the C/L hobby???

I have not made that claim.

I'm not sure why you insist on trying to pick an argument with me.  And you keep trying to put words in my mouth.  If you go back and actually read what I wrote, you'll see that I never mentioned C/L once!  Starting with my initial post I spoke about model airplane building.  Look at the pictures I posted!  Do you see any control line airplanes being built?

My point was the kids are still interested in model aviation as witnessed by their participation in model airplane building.  All of what you and Randy have said about control line flight training may be absolutely true.  I am not disagreeing with you on that.  But it is irrelevant to what I have pointed out.

There are kids interested in model aviation.  The fact that C/L flight training does not successfully recruit them into C/L pertains to:
A) incorrect method used?
B) the people doing the training?
C) lack of follow-thru?
D) etc.

Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Brett Buck on February 26, 2018, 10:16:42 AM
My point was the kids are still interested in model aviation as witnessed by their participation in model airplane building.  All of what you and Randy have said about control line flight training may be absolutely true.  I am not disagreeing with you on that.  But it is irrelevant to what I have pointed out.

There are kids interested in model aviation.  The fact that C/L flight training does not successfully recruit them into C/L pertains to:
A) incorrect method used?
B) the people doing the training?
C) lack of follow-thru?
D) etc.

   I think this subthread has taken an unfortunate turn, but (E) - lack of interest or willingness of the parents to permit it.

    Brett
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Randy Cuberly on February 26, 2018, 10:45:08 AM
Wayne:

Why do you keep asking
I have not made that claim.

I'm not sure why you insist on trying to pick an argument with me.  And you keep trying to put words in my mouth.  If you go back and actually read what I wrote, you'll see that I never mentioned C/L once!  Starting with my initial post I spoke about model airplane building.  Look at the pictures I posted!  Do you see any control line airplanes being built?

My point was the kids are still interested in model aviation as witnessed by their participation in model airplane building.  All of what you and Randy have said about control line flight training may be absolutely true.  I am not disagreeing with you on that.  But it is irrelevant to what I have pointed out.

There are kids interested in model aviation.  The fact that C/L flight training does not successfully recruit them into C/L pertains to:
A) incorrect method used?
B) the people doing the training?
C) lack of follow-thru?
D) etc.

Scott.
Your problem is that you have a brick wall in front of you and won't open the window to look out!

You got this thing started by insisting that everyone else who has tried was simply "Doing It Wrong!"  What a Pompous Ass you must be to assume that people like myself and others who have been doing this since the 50's and have tried earnestly to interest kids in our hobby must be simply "doing it wrong".

You seem to be forgetting the "Old Saw" that says "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink!"

Enough of this Garbage!

Randy Cuberly
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Scott Richlen on February 26, 2018, 12:08:28 PM
Thanks Brett for your response.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Dane Martin on February 26, 2018, 12:18:47 PM
Something Brett said struck a chord with me. My parents knew nothing of model building. So my dad just bought me kits and made sure I didn't die. He didn't tell me what I was doing wrong. Just let me do it.
Now, when my kids build something at first I showed them how. Meaning I basically just built it. In an effort to not drive them away, I bite my tongue and let them try. It's just balsa and it's cheap. But at first it drove me insane to watch them "do it wrong". Hopefully I learned this lesson while they're still interested.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Fredvon4 on February 26, 2018, 12:59:37 PM
As long as were are far a field from the Tower thread

I grew up with a Dad ...who I assume had a good dad.... who consciously found a way to foster OUR curiosity and yet INSTRUCTED... in retrospect ---most of the coaching and hovering was because much of what we were doing was Dangerous

But I do know... aside from the "let me show you first" he seemed  ( again in retrospect) a keen knowledge that curious minds need to explore and fail to LEARN

While I can NOT remember what I ate yesterday I have such vivid memories of 1957 to 1972....

Neighbor guy taught me HAM radio...it stuck
dad play model airplanes... it stuck
Dad played with tether cars...it stuck
Dad fix all family cars...it stuck
Dad self taught Heath Kit electronics...it stuck
Dad shot and hunted...it stuck
Dad has a motor bike...it stuck
Dad had to fix all sorts of home appliances and fix government housing to move on...it stuck
I can probaly keep this list going for 30 more entries

The most memorable...teach and learn to fail was a cheap B&S 2.5 HP lawn mower I just had to take apart to see the INNARDS of the magical engine.... dad returned from work to a disassembled mower.... was slightly pissed.. but held off not beating me to death... said it better be ready for next mowing... Of course I got it all back bolted together but only back fired and would not stay running

he now was greatly pissed and took me down to Napa for a B&S Chilton manual...made me startt reading on way home...

Gave me 24 hours to figure it all out.... Ah Ha.. cam timing using the factory Dots

That night I took it back apart and properly timed the Cam... next morning I fired it up for dear old dad and he tried hard to NOT be impressed...BUT I knew

This led to a multi year 1973 to 1985 sub hobby of engine tuning and racing where I was sought after to help build and maintain race engines for local circle track guys in Oly Tenino area...all while being very sucessful as a Army helicopter mechanic and later Teacher of the craft

Today, due to age and infirmities and enough income I hire out almost all work...

BUT thanks to the 50~70 times, my curiosity, and my DAD -----I can repair anything from a simple wall switch, toilet, computer, to the most advanced electronic items in my 2017 automobiles... seriously... if you KNOW HOW it works YOU can fix it.....

So Philosophical thought--- I think a lot of my skills--- and more so the lack of skills and curiosity today ----is hinted back up top where I assume my grand Father raised my dad 30~50s to be crafty and self reliant....due to low income necessity and farm life...who in turn passed that teaching to me an siblings...

As life progressed in the 60~80 with more and more RELIABLE stuff...and CHEAPER stuff...the need to be crafty was reduced

I am amazed today how many people I know who have NO TOOLS...I mean NOT ANY

any way  thoughts to ponder





Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Dennis Leonhardi on February 26, 2018, 02:25:24 PM
   Of course, that's the mechanism that destroyed local hobby shops, and is now destroying nearly all brick-and-mortar stores. And I would add, the stores aren't really doing themselves any favors, either. I would prefer to go to hobby shops, or other real-life stores, over on-line ordering, as long as they don't require a long side trip.

    Brett

I submit there's a lot more at play here than direct sales ...

When I was a kid getting started, our local hobby shop carried Fox, Johnson, K&B and McCoy engines - he even had replacement glow plugs, screw & gasket sets, and needle valve assembles for many!

Have you ordered an ESC (Electronic Speed Control) lately?  There must be a thousand choices ... LiPo battery pack?  What voltage, power, discharge rate do you want?  What connector?

Technology and the proliferation of competitive components have made keeping a competitive inventory on hand a nightmare for hobby shop owners, and I've told many I don't envy their situation.

I visited Hub Hobby in Richfield (MN) a few days ago - they have rows and rows and rows of props.  Props, mind you!  Do you really think Ma & Pa in Podunk, New Mexico can afford to stock that selection?  (Thank goodness Hub had exactly the 9x3.8 and 9x4.5 slow flyer props I was looking for ... should every local hobby shop be required to stock those?)

I really enjoyed spending time at the old LHS, chit-chatting with fellow modelers, but time marches on and those days are GONE.

And I don't fault LHS owners one little bit.  Nor do I fault online sellers.  We have exactly what we produced through our buying decisions.


Dennis
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Frank Imbriaco on February 26, 2018, 05:44:11 PM
We need another Jim Walker...

There was a one day contest held  in Union , NJ each year on Memorial Day from the late 40s through the 70s. There were between 80 and 120 contestants  each and every time.  There are a number of flyers who post here that can vouch that controline was  king in the NJ/ NY metro area for many, many  years.
 That club was the UNION MODEL AIRPLANE CLUB and our WEEKLY meetings filled 30' x 50' room.  No exaggerating.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Mike Scholtes on February 26, 2018, 06:09:52 PM
Fred, I think you left one thing off the list of things you got from your dad: Character. To that you can add self-reliance and self-respect, due to what you learned from your parents. Don't leave Mom out of the picture, so much comes from our long-suffering moms, especially with Dad enabling possibly dangerous activities. This is certainly true in my own case, and I hope years from now when asked, my daughter will say the same about me. BTW she built balsa gliders and rubber-powered models sitting next to me at the workbench when a tyke. Now she lectures me about angular momentum and conservation of energy. Heading to Cal Polytech Institute in the fall.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: Peter Nevai on February 26, 2018, 06:56:35 PM
Our policy should be found that we rely upon the principle of attraction rather than of promotion. This has been modified from one of the most successful programs in the world. (Anyone care to guess?)

This being said we should focus on getting back into the public eye. Exhibitions at Hobby Shops, schools, little league baseball game half times intermissions. Here is the best of all if not one person shows up to your club meeting you got to fly and show off. Give that a try.

Now to this other issue "TOWER HOBBIES" I have no answer and everyone is free to debate this issue as long as no personal attacks are implied. I hate censorship and I have received a report on this thread now so everyone is advised.


Visibility yes. One or two people flying around in circles or even doing the pattern while unique is not very interesting. Put on a mock slow combat match, get 3 or 4 models in the air at the same time. Stick out some balloons and practice balloon bust. Once you get past just one guy flying round and round you tend to attract a crowd. Did  that a couple times we would get everyone (four) at the time and put all of our models in the air at the same time. It was mayhem and a crap load of fun. In the end most of us collapsed on the ground laughing our heads off. When we finally came to our senses did we notice we attracted quite a bunch of people watching us from outside the fence line.

Did anyone come in and ask questions not that time but we definitely had a effect. On another occasion a pair of women approaced us asking all sorts of questions. Unfortunately having no women flying with us probably made us a look like a guys only club.  You know Boys and their toys.

Note that the people we attracted were predominantly adults, which is OK as they typically have the discretionary income to participate anyway.

Also even when they approach asking questions, it is best not to try to entice them to try it out (fly). That puts them on the spot and most people (strangers) will shy away as they certainly do not want to risk looking foolish or fail to get the hang of it. Certainly they do not want someone in their personal space that is required when you have two people on one handle. Rather invite them to a club meeting, fun fly or some other none threatening event. Print up some business cards (they are smaller and less prone to end up in the trash) people tend to stick cards in their wallet, pocket or purse rather then try to find a trash bin at their earliest convenience. Trust me it works, I know I keep coming across business cards from years ago that I absent mindlessly squirreled away at the time, and I always look at them when ever I come across one.

Part of the problem is that CLPA is soooooo serious, regimented, and rightly so but while challenging to fly, ultimately boring to watch. But 4 guys all flying around trying to avoid mid air collisions and doing all sorts of gymnastics to avoid tripping all over each other is entertainment!

So as Robert said got out and show off, use a little showmanship you will have a ton of fun and perhaps attract a person or two. I would bet if we had more women involved in this the hobby we would gather more attention. No if only we could figure out how to make that happen. Perhaps it is time to ask the wives for help in this matter as in 2018 women are doing and excelling at things that until rather recently were only the domain of men. Take the success of the female athletes at the Olympic games. The snow boarders, the American women's hockey team. Unfortunately due to social perceptions it really would take women to sell this to women or girls and there you have it.
Title: Re: Tower Hobbies
Post by: RC Storick on February 26, 2018, 06:59:27 PM
Third strike and the ones involved in the name calling better take heed