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Author Topic: Tower Hobbies  (Read 8860 times)

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #50 on: February 24, 2018, 06:49:15 AM »
It’s like trout fishing;  the river can be full of fish but it takes the right fly on the right day with the right fish.  They are there to be found but it takes a lot of fishing.

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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2018, 10:50:38 AM »
and I'll say it again:

Scott,

Not only is that insulting it's simply pure BULLSHIT!  The Cholla Choppers tried many, many, many times over a period of more than 30 years to recruit kids into CL and our Club.  The results were exactly One young man who has since left the Hobby.  He's still a good kid and has become a very nice adult but doesn't fly!

I would add that over the years we have had many fine fliers and at one time had as many as Five national Stunt and one National Carrier Champion (Who's still here by the way).  We had no shortage of interested experienced fliers trying many different things to teach and recruit kids.  The Simple story is that NOTHING worked and I sincerely believe nothing will.  Kids are simply NOT Interested in these kinds of things anymore.  Cell Phones, Texting friends, and God only knows what else is what they do.  They are not interested in Building anything...ANYTHING!  Buy is the Keyword today and probably will be forever!

OK...Go put your head back in the sand and I'll leave you alone!

Randy Cuberly
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #52 on: February 24, 2018, 02:13:24 PM »
Over the years the Knights of the Round Circle has trained a couple of thousand kids. First with the Cox PT-19, and now with the ET1. We hav gotten exactly none of them continuing or joining the club.

When Andy Borgogna and I fly at. The local park, kids just walk by.

It is indeed sad!
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Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #53 on: February 24, 2018, 02:47:24 PM »
Quote
The Simple story is that NOTHING worked and I sincerely believe nothing will.  Kids are simply NOT Interested in these kinds of things anymore.

Well darn!  Those pictures of kids building model airplanes that I posted must have been photo-shopped or something!  Who woulda known?

This is truly awful!  I've been building model airplanes for the last 5 years with Junior High kids that are simply NOT interested in these kinds of things anymore.  How could I have been so wrong about this?  Boy, did they pull the wool over my eyes!  I guess I won't be doing that  anymore!

But, I'm still sorta wondering why some of you are so invested in discouragement, resentment, excuses?   Anyone want to take a stab
 at answering that?  Anyone?  Anyone?  Hmmmmm...


Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #54 on: February 24, 2018, 04:06:56 PM »

 ...I've been building model airplanes for the last 5 years with Junior High kids that are simply NOT interested in these kinds of things anymore.  How could I have been so wrong about this?  Boy, did they pull the wool over my eyes!  I guess I won't be doing that  anymore!


 How many of those kids are now active, competent C/L builders and flyers? How many of them are now out flying on a regular basis?
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #55 on: February 24, 2018, 05:05:04 PM »
But, I'm still sorta wondering why some of you are so invested in discouragement, resentment, excuses?   Anyone want to take a stab
 at answering that?  Anyone?  Anyone?  Hmmmmm...

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #56 on: February 24, 2018, 05:15:02 PM »

 How about answering the above question?
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Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #57 on: February 24, 2018, 06:00:26 PM »
If you had read any of my posts you'd have known that your question is completely irrelevant.  The issue was "interest" and whether or not kids had an interest in model airplanes.  Some of you are so invested in being negative that you apparently didn't bother to read or understand my posts (or even look at the pictures for that matter.)

So why do you think that you have to "prove" that kids don't like model airplanes (in your case, control line)?  On the basis of some of the comments made, I suppose that any kid that wanted to join your club would be immediately driven off: "What?  Interested in model airplanes?  You can't be!  I know that you can't be!  Off with you!!"

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #58 on: February 24, 2018, 06:03:54 PM »
I think I can answer for him.  If he is still getting the kids out to fly just for the fun of it with supplied planes they might be out.  I know in all my years of helping young people very, very few stayed with it in their own.   Most went into RC because they could get planes ready to fly just for flying.  No competition as such.  Just getting together and flying.  But, if Scott is having fun doing this I say thanks to him.    H^^
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #59 on: February 24, 2018, 07:14:40 PM »
If you had read any of my posts you'd have known that your question is completely irrelevant.  The issue was "interest" and whether or not kids had an interest in model airplanes.  Some of you are so invested in being negative that you apparently didn't bother to read or understand my posts (or even look at the pictures for that matter.)

So why do you think that you have to "prove" that kids don't like model airplanes (in your case, control line)?  On the basis of some of the comments made, I suppose that any kid that wanted to join your club would be immediately driven off: "What?  Interested in model airplanes?  You can't be!  I know that you can't be!  Off with you!!"

 Let's quit tiptoeing around my simple question Scott, and enough with the insults.
 
 Explaining again, these efforts, attempts, and monetary investments have been made by countless C/L clubs and individual C/L hobbyists over the years. The search for new youth (or anyone) that may be "interested" in Control Line modeling has, 99% of the time, been with the primary hope and goal of growing the numbers of long term participants in our hobby. This is not about just deciding whether kids "like model airplanes" or not, it's about finding and securing a general commitment and regular participation in the C/L hobby.
 
 History over at least the past 20 years has proven that it is extremely rare that this end goal is ever achieved. I do commend you for your own efforts, but if your tutoring events are happening as part of a normal school day you can bet that 95% of the kids locked in that pen are not "interested", they're just stuck there daydreaming until the bell rings. Either way, showing and explaining to them how to build a model airplane is great, but it's only a small first step in achieving the true goal. If they don't continue with it for at least some time afterward, it's just another failed attempt.

 Now, you tell us you have tutored many "interested" students over at least the last 5 years, how many of them have continued their participation in the C/L hobby???

 I've made my guess, and welcome to the club.  D>K
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #60 on: February 24, 2018, 10:46:42 PM »
I'm betting my guess is exactly the same!  Welcome to the club!   LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~

It's tough to admit failure!  I know I do it all the time!  Nothing wrong with continuing to try as long as you're not kidding yourself into thinking you're actually accomplishing anything!

Randy Cuberly
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #61 on: February 25, 2018, 01:22:24 AM »
My best hope is that those we've taught to fly (even if marginally), may eventually come to think about doing it again. You know, sometime in the very distant future, like so many of us.  D>K Steve
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Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #62 on: February 25, 2018, 06:07:04 AM »
Randy and Wayne:

Okay, so you still haven't looked at the pictures or even noted what I was saying.  If you weren't so enthusiastic in your negativity, maybe you'd realize something.  Look at what you have posted and answer my question: why are you so invested in discouragement, resentment, excuses?

Offline Jim Mynes

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #63 on: February 25, 2018, 06:42:28 AM »
I thought this thread was about Tower Hobbies.

Why can’t everybody put their energy into promoting the hobby rather than tearing each other’s heads off?
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Offline RC Storick

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #64 on: February 25, 2018, 07:05:30 AM »
Our policy should be found that we rely upon the principle of attraction rather than of promotion. This has been modified from one of the most successful programs in the world. (Anyone care to guess?)

This being said we should focus on getting back into the public eye. Exhibitions at Hobby Shops, schools, little league baseball game half times intermissions. Here is the best of all if not one person shows up to your club meeting you got to fly and show off. Give that a try.

Now to this other issue "TOWER HOBBIES" I have no answer and everyone is free to debate this issue as long as no personal attacks are implied. I hate censorship and I have received a report on this thread now so everyone is advised.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 07:48:20 AM by RC Storick »
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Offline EddyR

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #65 on: February 25, 2018, 12:37:46 PM »
 I have flown FF CL and RC in that order from the late 1940's and I do not remember any huge or even large interest in CL flying. I lived in NYS and went to contest in NY,NJ Pa and Canada many times. The attendance was around 20-30 at largest contests. There were larger events but not that often.
 I went to some combat only contests in Pa in the 1960's and was maybe 3o entries and that was the biggest single event contest  I ever attended. 
  Binghamton NY where I lived was one of the hot beds of CL flying for the north east. There was a total of ten guys at the weekend flying sessions and maybe 50 different guys who flew CL over a 30 year period. That is not a lot of interest. I worked in two hobby shops and had a good feel for what was happening. There was a lot of show up one time and never come back even then. They would number in the hundred if you counted them all. Yes the 1957 Nats was huge but that is not typical of the week end group. The age group has changed a lot. In 1955 in my area the age group spanned 10-30years. I do not remember any old guys and not many under ten. There were a few who fathers built there models and they showed up until they got to 15-16.  RC contest took off big time around 1957. Locally we had the largest RC club in the US for a few years. In the mid 1960's at on RC field there would be 30 guys waiting to fly on any weekend.
  Yes we are a dying group but it is not that kids are lazy today they just have other challenges.
  I see the images of large groups waiting to fly a trainer. There is no interest beyond the novelty of doing some thing different.
  If some feel they need to do this then good for them.
EddyR 
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #66 on: February 25, 2018, 01:17:23 PM »
I truly think that Tower Hobbies did like most com[anise that are down sizing now.   I think they supplied Americas Hobby Center in the early days,  but then they started cutting their own throat by going direct sales to customers.   An individual would come in the store and look at a kit or engine and discover they could get it cheaper from Tower directly.  I remember getting SIG kits direct from SIG because the hobby shop would not put them on the shelf.   Also I think Brodak would say get from local hobby shop.   I know for sure one year he supplied all the stuff at a Nationals and the local hobby shop ran the sales at the field.  I do order from Tower when I can get some items in bulk.   So now when I need some thing I head to local hobby shop,   if they don't have it (also been told they would not order it)  I go to Tower. D>K   
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #67 on: February 25, 2018, 01:55:46 PM »
I truly think that Tower Hobbies did like most com[anise that are down sizing now.   I think they supplied Americas Hobby Center in the early days,  but then they started cutting their own throat by going direct sales to customers.   An individual would come in the store and look at a kit or engine and discover they could get it cheaper from Tower directly.

   Of course, that's the mechanism that destroyed local hobby shops, and is now destroying nearly all brick-and-mortar stores. And I would add, the stores aren't really doing themselves any favors, either. I would prefer to go to hobby shops, or other real-life stores, over on-line ordering, as long as they don't require a long side trip.

   But as an example, I tried most of the week to buy a replacement for my 30+ year old cordless drill (can't get batteries any more and it's very tired). Swell, I check the Lowe's website, there are 5 of the one I want at the store that I drive by on the way home from work every day. Dandy, I go over there, look around, lots of other DeWalt drills, but not that one. Ask someone, they grunt "I dunno" and wander off. OK, swell, I can get them to bring it to the front desk if I do "deliver to store" on the website. I go over, sure enough, still 5 of them listed in stock, order, "deliver to store, available in 2 hours". Get an email saying "it's available now". 4 hours later, I go over, kid says, OK, I will have to go get it out of the back room, wanders off. Even the other counter rats see me waiting for 45 minutes and call him, no answer.

    Eventually, he wanders back, sorry, I guess we don't have that, if you want to go to the Pleasanton store, they show they have it. This is 8:30 at night, Pleasanton is 40 miles away through impassible traffic. Of course, there is no reason to believe that Pleasanton's inventory or service is any better. I have no idea whether they have 5 of those drills in this store, probably they do, but no one can find them, why will it be different elsewhere?

   My solution - go to Amazon, hit the "buy it now button", drill shows up on my doorstep 10:30 the next morning, $30 off and free delivery.

    Hobby shops are getting undercut and they have no recourse. If I go to J&M Hobbies in San Carlos (one of the last classic shops) they go get what I need immediately. Other stores are doing it to themselves, and I have no symapthy for them.

    Brett

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #68 on: February 25, 2018, 04:38:27 PM »
The subject has morphed from a mail-order going out of business, through "what's wrong with the hobby", to "not enough young people", etc.

All of this might be true,  Deserves  separate topics dealing with each of the concerns.
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #69 on: February 25, 2018, 07:50:14 PM »
Randy and Wayne:

Okay, so you still haven't looked at the pictures or even noted what I was saying.  If you weren't so enthusiastic in your negativity, maybe you'd realize something.  Look at what you have posted and answer my question: why are you so invested in discouragement, resentment, excuses?

 I have read everything stated on both sides here Scott including yours, which frankly, has turned into a waste of time. For whatever reason you have been completely ignoring and/or sidestepping acknowledgement of the simple points that are being explained to you, points that have been proven in the C/L world time and time again. You are seeing honest replies from some very experienced C/L hobbyists who have been involved with these recruiting attempts countless times. If you would step out of your bubble and pay attention you might begin to realize that the explanations have absolutely NOTHING to do with anyone being "so invested in discouragement, resentment, excuses" as you accuse. The explanations are just an attempt to convey the proven REALITY of the situation to you. And, as you also accuse, no one here is "enthusiastic" in this "negativity" or likes it either, it's just the way it is.

 Now, I've answered your question, it's time for you to answer mine:  You claim to have tutored many new "interested" C/L candidates over at least the past five years, how many of them have continued their participation in the C/L hobby???

Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #70 on: February 25, 2018, 08:02:29 PM »
The subject has morphed from a mail-order going out of business, through "what's wrong with the hobby", to "not enough young people", etc.

All of this might be true,  Deserves  separate topics dealing with each of the concerns.

 You're right Floyd, and I apologize for my part in dismantling Tony's original post. It's just that Scott eventually pissed me off with his assumed and offensive accusations made to myself and others.
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #71 on: February 25, 2018, 09:15:11 PM »
   Of course, that's the mechanism that destroyed local hobby shops, and is now destroying nearly all brick-and-mortar stores. And I would add, the stores aren't really doing themselves any favors, either. I would prefer to go to hobby shops, or other real-life stores, over on-line ordering, as long as they don't require a long side trip.

   But as an example, I tried most of the week to buy a replacement for my 30+ year old cordless drill (can't get batteries any more and it's very tired). Swell, I check the Lowe's website, there are 5 of the one I want at the store that I drive by on the way home from work every day. Dandy, I go over there, look around, lots of other DeWalt drills, but not that one. Ask someone, they grunt "I dunno" and wander off. OK, swell, I can get them to bring it to the front desk if I do "deliver to store" on the website. I go over, sure enough, still 5 of them listed in stock, order, "deliver to store, available in 2 hours". Get an email saying "it's available now". 4 hours later, I go over, kid says, OK, I will have to go get it out of the back room, wanders off. Even the other counter rats see me waiting for 45 minutes and call him, no answer.

    Eventually, he wanders back, sorry, I guess we don't have that, if you want to go to the Pleasanton store, they show they have it. This is 8:30 at night, Pleasanton is 40 miles away through impassible traffic. Of course, there is no reason to believe that Pleasanton's inventory or service is any better. I have no idea whether they have 5 of those drills in this store, probably they do, but no one can find them, why will it be different elsewhere?

   My solution - go to Amazon, hit the "buy it now button", drill shows up on my doorstep 10:30 the next morning, $30 off and free delivery.

    Hobby shops are getting undercut and they have no recourse. If I go to J&M Hobbies in San Carlos (one of the last classic shops) they go get what I need immediately. Other stores are doing it to themselves, and I have no symapthy for them.

    Brett

I used to go to J&M Hobbies in San Carlos whenever I visited Raytheon's vendor there in San Carlos.  Wish I could find an excuse to spend a day there again!  Reminds me of ACE Hobbies in KC when I was in High school.  Great memories!  Great to know they still exist!  Wonderful place with beautiful Stunters hanging overhead.  A lot of Ted's Stuff and some from a unknown flier (unknown to me at least that copied Ted's stuff to a 'T'.  Ted told me a funny anecdote about that once!

Too bad about the state of things in the Hobby industry today.  You're absolutely right though when you said they really contributed to the whole mess themselves!

Randy Cuberly
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #72 on: February 25, 2018, 09:40:22 PM »
I used to go to J&M Hobbies in San Carlos whenever I visited Raytheon's vendor there in San Carlos.  Wish I could find an excuse to spend a day there again!  Reminds me of ACE Hobbies in KC when I was in High school.  Great memories!  Great to know they still exist!  Wonderful place with beautiful Stunters hanging overhead.  A lot of Ted's Stuff and some from a unknown flier (unknown to me at least that copied Ted's stuff to a 'T'.  Ted told me a funny anecdote about that once!

    That would be Mr. Paul "Peppy" Pomposo, notorious Ted Fancher afficiando and an absolutely wonderful builder and finisher. He has been flying with us since he was a teenager, over at the Redwood City sewer plant site, now he is in his 40s. Great guy, and boundless enthusiasm.  Also, another one of those builders that would be nationally known and a possible Concours winner  - if he could manage to make it all the way across the country to the NATS.

    We have a million Paul stories, but my favorite (Ted likes it too) - I took Paul to his first Golden State contest, maybe 87 or 88. We go down, and its at the old Clovis High School site. You had to park a fair distance away and then carry your stuff out. We are carrying our stuff over, Paul starts seeing the airplanes flying, and takes off trotting, then running, because he's so excited he can't wait!

   He has pretty consistently copied everything Ted has done, and you have to admit, if you are going to pick someone to emulate, Ted Fancher is a pretty good choice.

Quote
Too bad about the state of things in the Hobby industry today.  You're absolutely right though when you said they really contributed to the whole mess themselves!

        Tower/Hobbico/Great Planes has been trying for years to wipe out any competition by exclusive agreements and ruthless undercutting of local hobby shops. That's why you can, er, could get an OS-20FP for $49 - less than a far inferior OS-20S cost in 1973, even in absolute dollars! If you use standard inflation, it should have cost $189. I know, I bought both engines new with my own money. The hobby shops were done in by Tower, much like Standard Oil did in the 1890s.

     Most other brick and mortar stores are doing it to themselves - offering inferior service, impossible-to-locate items in their stores, and higher prices. My Lowe's example was just that, one example, it's common. I would much prefer to get something there, but they made it effectively impossible to find and purchase what I wanted, and really don't seem to care one way or the other. That's fundamentally different from the hobby shops, most of them at least, they have have dandy service - but get undercut on the price, or more often, can't get it at all without going to Tower and paying the same price you and I would on a direct purchase.

   Brett

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #73 on: February 26, 2018, 12:26:18 AM »
...if he could manage to make it all the way across the country to the NATS.

Ah, the idea of Paul Pomposo in the Midwest. One imagines for whom he would be mistaken, the resulting reaction, and how Paul would react to the reaction.
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #74 on: February 26, 2018, 12:56:19 AM »
Ah, the idea of Paul Pomposo in the Midwest. One imagines for whom he would be mistaken, the resulting reaction, and how Paul would react to the reaction.

   Too clever for me. I have no idea who he looks like.

     Brett

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #75 on: February 26, 2018, 07:03:23 AM »
Wayne:

Why do you keep asking
Quote
You claim to have tutored many new "interested" C/L candidates over at least the past five years, how many of them have continued their participation in the C/L hobby???

I have not made that claim.

I'm not sure why you insist on trying to pick an argument with me.  And you keep trying to put words in my mouth.  If you go back and actually read what I wrote, you'll see that I never mentioned C/L once!  Starting with my initial post I spoke about model airplane building.  Look at the pictures I posted!  Do you see any control line airplanes being built?

My point was the kids are still interested in model aviation as witnessed by their participation in model airplane building.  All of what you and Randy have said about control line flight training may be absolutely true.  I am not disagreeing with you on that.  But it is irrelevant to what I have pointed out.

There are kids interested in model aviation.  The fact that C/L flight training does not successfully recruit them into C/L pertains to:
A) incorrect method used?
B) the people doing the training?
C) lack of follow-thru?
D) etc.


Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #76 on: February 26, 2018, 10:16:42 AM »
My point was the kids are still interested in model aviation as witnessed by their participation in model airplane building.  All of what you and Randy have said about control line flight training may be absolutely true.  I am not disagreeing with you on that.  But it is irrelevant to what I have pointed out.

There are kids interested in model aviation.  The fact that C/L flight training does not successfully recruit them into C/L pertains to:
A) incorrect method used?
B) the people doing the training?
C) lack of follow-thru?
D) etc.

   I think this subthread has taken an unfortunate turn, but (E) - lack of interest or willingness of the parents to permit it.

    Brett

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #77 on: February 26, 2018, 10:45:08 AM »
Wayne:

Why do you keep asking
I have not made that claim.

I'm not sure why you insist on trying to pick an argument with me.  And you keep trying to put words in my mouth.  If you go back and actually read what I wrote, you'll see that I never mentioned C/L once!  Starting with my initial post I spoke about model airplane building.  Look at the pictures I posted!  Do you see any control line airplanes being built?

My point was the kids are still interested in model aviation as witnessed by their participation in model airplane building.  All of what you and Randy have said about control line flight training may be absolutely true.  I am not disagreeing with you on that.  But it is irrelevant to what I have pointed out.

There are kids interested in model aviation.  The fact that C/L flight training does not successfully recruit them into C/L pertains to:
A) incorrect method used?
B) the people doing the training?
C) lack of follow-thru?
D) etc.

Scott.
Your problem is that you have a brick wall in front of you and won't open the window to look out!

You got this thing started by insisting that everyone else who has tried was simply "Doing It Wrong!"  What a Pompous Ass you must be to assume that people like myself and others who have been doing this since the 50's and have tried earnestly to interest kids in our hobby must be simply "doing it wrong".

You seem to be forgetting the "Old Saw" that says "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink!"

Enough of this Garbage!

Randy Cuberly
Randy Cuberly
Tucson, AZ

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #78 on: February 26, 2018, 12:08:28 PM »
Thanks Brett for your response.

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #79 on: February 26, 2018, 12:18:47 PM »
Something Brett said struck a chord with me. My parents knew nothing of model building. So my dad just bought me kits and made sure I didn't die. He didn't tell me what I was doing wrong. Just let me do it.
Now, when my kids build something at first I showed them how. Meaning I basically just built it. In an effort to not drive them away, I bite my tongue and let them try. It's just balsa and it's cheap. But at first it drove me insane to watch them "do it wrong". Hopefully I learned this lesson while they're still interested.

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #80 on: February 26, 2018, 12:59:37 PM »
As long as were are far a field from the Tower thread

I grew up with a Dad ...who I assume had a good dad.... who consciously found a way to foster OUR curiosity and yet INSTRUCTED... in retrospect ---most of the coaching and hovering was because much of what we were doing was Dangerous

But I do know... aside from the "let me show you first" he seemed  ( again in retrospect) a keen knowledge that curious minds need to explore and fail to LEARN

While I can NOT remember what I ate yesterday I have such vivid memories of 1957 to 1972....

Neighbor guy taught me HAM radio...it stuck
dad play model airplanes... it stuck
Dad played with tether cars...it stuck
Dad fix all family cars...it stuck
Dad self taught Heath Kit electronics...it stuck
Dad shot and hunted...it stuck
Dad has a motor bike...it stuck
Dad had to fix all sorts of home appliances and fix government housing to move on...it stuck
I can probaly keep this list going for 30 more entries

The most memorable...teach and learn to fail was a cheap B&S 2.5 HP lawn mower I just had to take apart to see the INNARDS of the magical engine.... dad returned from work to a disassembled mower.... was slightly pissed.. but held off not beating me to death... said it better be ready for next mowing... Of course I got it all back bolted together but only back fired and would not stay running

he now was greatly pissed and took me down to Napa for a B&S Chilton manual...made me startt reading on way home...

Gave me 24 hours to figure it all out.... Ah Ha.. cam timing using the factory Dots

That night I took it back apart and properly timed the Cam... next morning I fired it up for dear old dad and he tried hard to NOT be impressed...BUT I knew

This led to a multi year 1973 to 1985 sub hobby of engine tuning and racing where I was sought after to help build and maintain race engines for local circle track guys in Oly Tenino area...all while being very sucessful as a Army helicopter mechanic and later Teacher of the craft

Today, due to age and infirmities and enough income I hire out almost all work...

BUT thanks to the 50~70 times, my curiosity, and my DAD -----I can repair anything from a simple wall switch, toilet, computer, to the most advanced electronic items in my 2017 automobiles... seriously... if you KNOW HOW it works YOU can fix it.....

So Philosophical thought--- I think a lot of my skills--- and more so the lack of skills and curiosity today ----is hinted back up top where I assume my grand Father raised my dad 30~50s to be crafty and self reliant....due to low income necessity and farm life...who in turn passed that teaching to me an siblings...

As life progressed in the 60~80 with more and more RELIABLE stuff...and CHEAPER stuff...the need to be crafty was reduced

I am amazed today how many people I know who have NO TOOLS...I mean NOT ANY

any way  thoughts to ponder





"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #81 on: February 26, 2018, 02:25:24 PM »
   Of course, that's the mechanism that destroyed local hobby shops, and is now destroying nearly all brick-and-mortar stores. And I would add, the stores aren't really doing themselves any favors, either. I would prefer to go to hobby shops, or other real-life stores, over on-line ordering, as long as they don't require a long side trip.

    Brett

I submit there's a lot more at play here than direct sales ...

When I was a kid getting started, our local hobby shop carried Fox, Johnson, K&B and McCoy engines - he even had replacement glow plugs, screw & gasket sets, and needle valve assembles for many!

Have you ordered an ESC (Electronic Speed Control) lately?  There must be a thousand choices ... LiPo battery pack?  What voltage, power, discharge rate do you want?  What connector?

Technology and the proliferation of competitive components have made keeping a competitive inventory on hand a nightmare for hobby shop owners, and I've told many I don't envy their situation.

I visited Hub Hobby in Richfield (MN) a few days ago - they have rows and rows and rows of props.  Props, mind you!  Do you really think Ma & Pa in Podunk, New Mexico can afford to stock that selection?  (Thank goodness Hub had exactly the 9x3.8 and 9x4.5 slow flyer props I was looking for ... should every local hobby shop be required to stock those?)

I really enjoyed spending time at the old LHS, chit-chatting with fellow modelers, but time marches on and those days are GONE.

And I don't fault LHS owners one little bit.  Nor do I fault online sellers.  We have exactly what we produced through our buying decisions.


Dennis
Think for yourself !  XXX might win the Nats, be an expert on designing, building, finishing, flying, tuning engines - but you might not wanna take tax advice from him.  Or consider his views on the climate to be fact ...

Offline Frank Imbriaco

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #82 on: February 26, 2018, 05:44:11 PM »
We need another Jim Walker...

There was a one day contest held  in Union , NJ each year on Memorial Day from the late 40s through the 70s. There were between 80 and 120 contestants  each and every time.  There are a number of flyers who post here that can vouch that controline was  king in the NJ/ NY metro area for many, many  years.
 That club was the UNION MODEL AIRPLANE CLUB and our WEEKLY meetings filled 30' x 50' room.  No exaggerating.

Offline Mike Scholtes

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #83 on: February 26, 2018, 06:09:52 PM »
Fred, I think you left one thing off the list of things you got from your dad: Character. To that you can add self-reliance and self-respect, due to what you learned from your parents. Don't leave Mom out of the picture, so much comes from our long-suffering moms, especially with Dad enabling possibly dangerous activities. This is certainly true in my own case, and I hope years from now when asked, my daughter will say the same about me. BTW she built balsa gliders and rubber-powered models sitting next to me at the workbench when a tyke. Now she lectures me about angular momentum and conservation of energy. Heading to Cal Polytech Institute in the fall.

Offline Peter Nevai

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #84 on: February 26, 2018, 06:56:35 PM »
Our policy should be found that we rely upon the principle of attraction rather than of promotion. This has been modified from one of the most successful programs in the world. (Anyone care to guess?)

This being said we should focus on getting back into the public eye. Exhibitions at Hobby Shops, schools, little league baseball game half times intermissions. Here is the best of all if not one person shows up to your club meeting you got to fly and show off. Give that a try.

Now to this other issue "TOWER HOBBIES" I have no answer and everyone is free to debate this issue as long as no personal attacks are implied. I hate censorship and I have received a report on this thread now so everyone is advised.


Visibility yes. One or two people flying around in circles or even doing the pattern while unique is not very interesting. Put on a mock slow combat match, get 3 or 4 models in the air at the same time. Stick out some balloons and practice balloon bust. Once you get past just one guy flying round and round you tend to attract a crowd. Did  that a couple times we would get everyone (four) at the time and put all of our models in the air at the same time. It was mayhem and a crap load of fun. In the end most of us collapsed on the ground laughing our heads off. When we finally came to our senses did we notice we attracted quite a bunch of people watching us from outside the fence line.

Did anyone come in and ask questions not that time but we definitely had a effect. On another occasion a pair of women approaced us asking all sorts of questions. Unfortunately having no women flying with us probably made us a look like a guys only club.  You know Boys and their toys.

Note that the people we attracted were predominantly adults, which is OK as they typically have the discretionary income to participate anyway.

Also even when they approach asking questions, it is best not to try to entice them to try it out (fly). That puts them on the spot and most people (strangers) will shy away as they certainly do not want to risk looking foolish or fail to get the hang of it. Certainly they do not want someone in their personal space that is required when you have two people on one handle. Rather invite them to a club meeting, fun fly or some other none threatening event. Print up some business cards (they are smaller and less prone to end up in the trash) people tend to stick cards in their wallet, pocket or purse rather then try to find a trash bin at their earliest convenience. Trust me it works, I know I keep coming across business cards from years ago that I absent mindlessly squirreled away at the time, and I always look at them when ever I come across one.

Part of the problem is that CLPA is soooooo serious, regimented, and rightly so but while challenging to fly, ultimately boring to watch. But 4 guys all flying around trying to avoid mid air collisions and doing all sorts of gymnastics to avoid tripping all over each other is entertainment!

So as Robert said got out and show off, use a little showmanship you will have a ton of fun and perhaps attract a person or two. I would bet if we had more women involved in this the hobby we would gather more attention. No if only we could figure out how to make that happen. Perhaps it is time to ask the wives for help in this matter as in 2018 women are doing and excelling at things that until rather recently were only the domain of men. Take the success of the female athletes at the Olympic games. The snow boarders, the American women's hockey team. Unfortunately due to social perceptions it really would take women to sell this to women or girls and there you have it.
Words Spoken by the first human to set foot on Mars... "Now What?"

Offline RC Storick

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Re: Tower Hobbies
« Reply #85 on: February 26, 2018, 06:59:27 PM »
Third strike and the ones involved in the name calling better take heed
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 06:41:50 PM by RC Storick »
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