top 20 scores

[Bruce Perry]

the board for top 20

[Bruce Perry]

you will note that Doug Moon has a low score.  He was sucked into the pavement following an inverted turn.  Model is repairable.

The Air was completely dead, barely a drift from anywhere.  The big planes, like mine, were leaving monstrous holes in the sky necessitating lots of footwork.  Some were successful with just a step or two. 

the format flies two circles at the same time.  That's why Doug's score appears to have occured in the first round.

There were some missing persons from the usual crew, however, do not presume the competition to have been eased as a result.  There was a great deal of amazing flying, the nats is never an easy contest.

[Mike Palko]

Bruce,

Thank you for the results all week and congrats on your 8th place finish!

Dave and Paul are out in front by a good bit.

Mike

[Mike Palko]

Any idea who won "Rookie of the Year"?

Mike

[Bill Little]

Any idea who won "Rookie of the Year"?

Mike

Hi Mike,

Don't know who the ROY will turn out to be, but it is Steve Fitton's first NATS in Open, AFAIK.  A big congratulations to Steve!

Bill

[Randy Powell]

Looks pretty cool. Wish I was there to see it. Thanks for the update, Bruce, and congrats on you finish.

[Allen Brickhaus]

I think that P.J. Rowland might also be a first year qualifier and might be eligible for the Rookie of the Year.

[Tom Niebuhr]

I missed my prediction of two electrics in the top 5 by an infinitesimal margin. Richard Oliver topped Bob Hunt by 00.25.

Bob overcame some major problems in the past week but never quit.

Richard made the necessary adjustments.  My hat is off to the five qualifiers.

Question: If Richard and Bob had the same score would there be a 6th qualifier, or is the highest of a 3rd flight used as the tie breaker?

[Will Hinton]

Thanks for the scores report, Bruce, and congrats on your finish.  It was great to visit with you!

[Randy Powell]

Yea, good to see the west coast guys still have some mojo. You go Brett, Paul and Dave!

[Larry Wong]

Humm  we should have a Westcoast Nats,  then when they travel farther ,they might try harder to win.

Go West Coast flyers 

[Ted Fancher]

I missed my prediction of two electrics in the top 5 by an infinitesimal margin. Richard Oliver topped Bob Hunt by 00.25.

Bob overcame some major problems in the past week but never quit.

Richard made the necessary adjustments.  My hat is off to the five qualifiers.

Question: If Richard and Bob had the same score would there be a 6th qualifier, or is the highest of a 3rd flight used as the tie breaker?

IMHO both should compete.  As in golf, when you complete the official rounds you are "placed" in terms of how many scored better (lower for them, higher for us).  Had Richard and Bob scored identically only four fliers would have flown "better" than them.  They are both fifth place finishers and the top five scores advance to the finals.  There being no provision for a fly-off I'd simply say well done to both of them and print another ten or whatever score sheets.

As an interesting corollary.  I once qualified for the finals but broke the airplane irreparably before the top five fly-off.  Some wanted to move the guy who finished sixth on top twenty into the flyoff.  This was not allowed as he had been beaten by five fliers and didn't qualify.  I, of course, finished fifth with a total score of zero for my flights.

On the other hand, I think you could make a valid argument for a flyoff if two finished with identical official scores following the top five day.  Ya gotta get the Champ no matter what happens to the also rans.

Ted

Just noted my last paragraph left out an important detail.  A flyoff would "only" be appropriate if two fliers tied for the highest score.  Then, as in golf, you have a flyoff/playoff to determine the Champ.  There can, after all,  only be One "NUMBER ONE"!

[Tom Niebuhr]

Thanks Ted. I agree that both should be in the flyoff under that scenario.

Does anyone have the results for Advanced? They flyoff tommorrow too.

[Derek Barry]

Well guys it has been one hell of a contest. I think all of us would prefer 20 mph wind to the dead air and hot weather we have been getting. The newly covered asphalt (black) has been around 135 degrees by 11 am, that on top of the dead air has caused some really tough flying conditions. I almost lost my plane today on my second outside square due to turbulence and I didn't see it but I hear that Paul had a similar indecent on his second flight. Bob has been flying well despite his bad luck in the pits two days ago. I really thought he was going to qualify but Rich bumped him out by .25. As usual tomorrow will be a shoot out and weather and judging will play a big part in the outcome. I cant say that I am happy with the random draw that we were forced to use (because the Howard's program was not working) to select judges for the top five shoot out. Les and Mark(head judge) were in the Advanced circles. I don't think they were happy with that and I don't think is was right. In the interest of fairness that is what we had to do..... It is sad that the best in the country could not be judged by a world champ...... We will see what tomorrow brings good luck to all.

Derek

[Derek Barry]

Advanced top three

1 Ryan Young

2 Eric Taylor

3 Matt Colan

Congrats to all three, it was a close race as well

Derek

[Howard Rush]

Here are Open results.  Q indicates that the contestant qualifies to fly more stunt tomorrow.  Q people are in alphabetical order.

Q   Derek Barry
Q   Brett Buck
Q   Dave Fitzgerald
Q   Richard Oliver
Q   Paul Walker
6   Bob Hunt
7   Matthew Neumann
8   Bruce Perry
9   Joe Parisi
10   Howard Rush
11   Kaz Minato
12   Kenny Stevens
13   Bud Wieder
14   Frank McMillan
15   Robert McDonald
16   Gene Martine
16   PJ Rowland
18   Monty Summach
19   Stephen Fitton
20   Doug Moon
21   Keith Trostle
22   Dan Banjock
23   Frank Williams
24   R Steven Moon
25   Michael McHenry
26   James Smith
27   Jose Modesto
28   Wesley Dick
29   Allen Goff
30   Wayne N. Smith
31   Germanico Becerril
32   Mike Scott
33   Eric Viglione
34   Dale Gleason
35   Robert Storick
36   John Leidle
37   David Trible
38   Allen Brickhaus
39   James Lee
40   Richard Giacobone
41   John D'Ottavio
41   Jim Aron

Here is Advanced:

1   Ryan Young
2   Eric Taylor
3   Matthew Colan
4   Dennis Vander Kuur
5   Mike Schmitt
6   David Heinzman
7   Mike Greb
8   Greg Voumard
9   Erik Rogers
10   Roger Wildman
11   Donald Ogren
12   William DeMauro
13   Mike Haverly
14   Scott Reynolds
15   Wesley Eakin
16   Chris Stevens
17   Sina Goudarzi
18   Donald Herdman
19   Vincent Bodde
20   Peter Rowland
21   Ricardo Martinez
22   Les Byrd
23   Michael F.  Stinson
24   Crist Rigotti
25   Ronnie Thompson
26   Samuel Niebel
27   Joseph Hildreth
28   Francisco Fontenelle

[Howard Rush]

Les and Mark(head judge) were in the Advanced circles. I don't think they were happy with that and I don't think is was right. In the interest of fairness that is what we had to do..... It is sad that the best in the country could not be judged by a world champ.

The program worked today and picked tomorrow's judges.  It has the virtue of being objective.  Any subjectivity gives ani excuses for not winning.  One of my conditions of employment as a programmer is that everything be done in the open and objectively: randomly or by a previously published formula.  I am not sure that the formula we use is statistically valid.  I am not a statistical whiz, so I don't know how to do it better.  I think that there probably is a better formula, but nobody has come with one.

[Howard Rush]

IMHO both should compete.  As in golf, when you complete the official rounds you are "placed" in terms of how many scored better (lower for them, higher for us).  Had Richard and Bob scored identically only four fliers would have flown "better" than them.  They are both fifth place finishers and the top five scores advance to the finals.  There being no provision for a fly-off I'd simply say well done to both of them and print another ten or whatever score sheets.

As an interesting corollary.  I once qualified for the finals but broke the airplane irreparably before the top five fly-off.  Some wanted to move the guy who finished sixth on top twenty into the flyoff.  This was not allowed as he had been beaten by five fliers and didn't qualify.  I, of course, finished fifth with a total score of zero for my flights.

On the other hand, I think you could make a valid argument for a flyoff if two finished with identical official scores following the top five day.  Ya gotta get the Champ no matter what happens to the also rans.

Ted

We had a tie for fifth a couple of years ago.  We had six in the top five.  One of the guys in the tie sorta went through the turnstile in the same turn as the legitimate finalist and was found out to be an impostor the next day. 

[Derek Barry]

The program worked today and picked tomorrow's judges.  It has the virtue of being objective.  Any subjectivity gives ani excuses for not winning.  One of my conditions of employment as a programmer is that everything be done in the open and objectively: randomly or by a previously published formula.  I am not sure that the formula we use is statistically valid.  I am not a statistical whiz, so I don't know how to do it better.  I think that there probably is a better formula, but nobody has come with one.

I like and agree with the way your program works. I just wish that we could have used it yesterday and I am happy that it did work today. I made it, so I guess I should not complain......

Derek

[M Spencer]

Hats off to Joe and P.J. , 

[peabody]

Derek:
I hold that the judges should NOT be graded....a random draw is what works....

If there is a judge that is "bad", don't ask him/her next year....

I believe that there is not a fair and logical method of "grading" judges....

I also believe strongly that ALL competitors, regardless of skill/age class, are entitled to the very best judges that the ED can muster...period!

I'm sure Howard's program has a lot of work behind it, and is better than just an "educated opinion" from a committee.....

[john e. holliday]

Well after the Saturday flyoff for the Open, the Junior & Senior and finally the Walker Cup we have another year to hash this all out.  I want to thank all the people for making the NATS happen.   Being an event director in the past for Carrier and Racing it is not easy.  Takes a lot of great people to make the job easy.

[Ted Fancher]

Advanced top three

1 Ryan Young

2 Eric Taylor

3 Matt Colan

Congrats to all three, it was a close race as well

Derek

Bravo to the kids!

I've watched closely (and been thrilled by) young Mr. Young's skills and have been highly impressed with what I've learned about Matt via the internet the last year.  Don't know Eric yet but if he's managed to slip himself between these two young men I think the future of our event is in very talented hands (especially if/when Paul Ferrell finds time between school and young ladies to re-engage !)

Oh, and lest any think  I've forgotten, the tall red headed kid from VSC country (Mike Duffy) is just as talented and dedicated; he will also be a force to be reckoned with.  (I knew him when he wasn't tall...about a minute ago in my lifetime)

If I was named Walker/Fitzgerald/Barry/Buck/Oliver etc., I'd be watching my six!

Ted Fancher

p.s. speaking of the "more experienced" types; kudos to my "down under" friend Joe Parisi for his top ten placing.  I watched him frequently in Gyula and was disappointed he didn't place better given the quality of flying I believed he was presenting.  A ninth place finish at the US Nats is, I believe, a better indicator of this man's skill.  Good thing he still had that single strand of leadout cable still connected the last time I saw him fly!

[Ted Fancher]

We had a tie for fifth a couple of years ago.  We had six in the top five.  One of the guys in the tie sorta went through the turnstile in the same turn as the legitimate finalist and was found out to be an impostor the next day. 

Hmmmm.  If you're talking about that masked man with the Jack-O-Lantern airplane I sorta doubt he snuck in.

Must admit I'd forgotten about that event.  Sounds like the people in charge made the right decision.

Ted

[Derek Barry]

Derek:
I hold that the judges should NOT be graded....a random draw is what works....

If there is a judge that is "bad", don't ask him/her next year....

I believe that there is not a fair and logical method of "grading" judges....

I also believe strongly that ALL competitors, regardless of skill/age class, are entitled to the very best judges that the ED can muster...period!

I'm sure Howard's program has a lot of work behind it, and is better than just an "educated opinion" from a committee.....

Grading judges is very difficult because it is all subjective. There is absolutely no way of comparing the judges scores to the actual flight. I think a combo of computer and human input is needed to find a fair way of "seeding" judges. There were 3 judges from the east coast (one who has multiple world titles), none of which were in the fly off today. Howard has done an incredible job so far and we are going to try and find an even better way of selecting finals judges. Maybe a combination of grading and geographical locating could work? He and I will be working on this and all (reasonable) input will be considered.

Derek

Howard has assured me that he is willing to take any positive and constructive input

[PJ Rowland]

Easily the best Nats I've been too for both enjoyment, friends made, experience and results.

I'm more than pleased with my results - I had 2 goals I wanted to acheive.

Make Top 3 Classic
Make Top 20 In Open.

My 16th was as good as I could have hoped for. Sensational Nationals - Worth every $ I spent to get here.

We wont find out Rookie of the Year until Tonights Banquet.

Hats off to everyone who did well, Congrats to Joe also for his 1st Top 10.

(Id post more but im on a public computer 5 mins left !)

[Doug Moon]

you will note that Doug Moon has a low score.  He was sucked into the pavement following an inverted turn.  Model is repairable.

The Air was completely dead, barely a drift from anywhere.  The big planes, like mine, were leaving monstrous holes in the sky necessitating lots of footwork.  Some were successful with just a step or two. 

the format flies two circles at the same time.  That's why Doug's score appears to have occured in the first round.

There were some missing persons from the usual crew, however, do not presume the competition to have been eased as a result.  There was a great deal of amazing flying, the nats is never an easy contest.

It was overcast with maybe 1-2 mph of wind when I started the flight (ideal conditions) but during the inside squares the sun broke and what tiny amount of air there was died off completely.  In retrospect once I felt the air starting to turn off I should have looked around and waited an extra lap or two to let it finish dying off.  Then I would have been able to better place the maneuver and adjust for it as I flew it out.  But I did not.  I proceeded with the outside squares and the first one was light and soft.  When I turned it down for the 2nd one the plane showed me the wing and I knew it could be real bad.  I stepped back and tried to finish the maneuver.  As I turned the corner the tail started to come around but there was just no lift.  It was like flying into a vacuum.  It made the corner and it flew into the ground flat.  You could see where the rudder dragged first and then the nose hit.  It was trying to fly out and I was pulling but it just couldn't climb out of it.  It tore up the irreplaceable prop as well.  But the canopy is still intact.

Me and my brother both flew it Friday night at the L-pad and it flys just the same as it did before.  8pm flights at the L-pad are truly heaven on earth. 

Cosmetic repairs it is back in the game.

What I have learned from this is to pay closer attention during the changing conditions from little winds to dead calm.  I rarely fly in dead calm.  Put in a little extra fuel and use the time we are given and throw in extra laps to get the best placement during the flight.  Probably only need to use that trick twice in a flight maybe three times if it is really moving around.  But I dont be glued to the two laps if I should need more time to get it correct.  So many times I go into robot mode and just start working through it.  In the future I will have to ease up on it a bit and make a better choice of placement.

All in all I had a great time, minus the crashing part and not flying today, but it is good to be back home with the wife and kids.

Many congratulations to all the finalists and winners this week.

A MONSTER HUGE THANK YOU to all the tireless helpers who put this on so we can compete.

It was great to meet Joe Parisi, PJ and his Dad, and Monty.  I am sure there are many others it is all still a fog as I walked in just an hour and half ago. 

It was great to see so many of the faces I have seen so many times before.  I hope to see you all again next time.

[John Lindberg]

I think Eric Taylor is probably around 45-50 years old, in your line of work, Ted, he is a professional pilot, owns his own charter business, I believe. Real nice person, builds some attractive airplanes. 

[john e. holliday]

Well to guys like Ted and myself he is still a kid.    Several years ago after I retired, a gentelman that worked for my son kept calling me kid.  I asked why he called me kid.  He asked me how old I was and I told him.  He stated then, "I am a year older than you, so you are a kid to me".  He was the guy that did the dragon on my old time Yates Dragon for VSC.

[Ted Fancher]

I think Eric Taylor is probably around 45-50 years old, in your line of work, Ted, he is a professional pilot, owns his own charter business, I believe. Real nice person, builds some attractive airplanes. 

Yeah, John.  I already got ribbed on that one from more than one corner.  My only excuse could be an old timer's moment and I was thinking Senior instead of Advanced.  Good on Eric in any case.  Knowing Ryan's skills pretty well I know a flier of any age has gotta be pretty sharp on the stick to fly close to even up with him and another kid that almost whipped him in Senior.

Ted

[John Lindberg]

Well, you could always reply that your design-TP-or derivatives of it, are doing pretty well, so there! But would they even listen? Perhaps. 

[Ted Fancher]

Well, you could always reply that your design-TP-or derivatives of it, are doing pretty well, so there! But would they even listen? Perhaps. 

Well, John, I guess I can always look at that positive side.  It has been a few pretty good years for stunt ships with old Imitation genes in their DNA, hasn't it.

Ted

[Warren Leadbeatter]

Hats off to Joe and P.J. , 

Well done to the Aussies, Joe and PJ... you guys done us proud.