Throttle Control

[Dave Cook]

Just a thought, I have been and advocate of throttle control in stunt for a long time. The new Spektrum DX6 Park Flyer radios look like the would be a great solution. They do not use radio frequencies and you could use 50 of them at the field at same time with no interferance. They use cell phone spread spectrum technology and each reciever is bound to one transmitter.It looks like a better solution than infared.
They would also be great for Carrier and Scale.

Dave Cook

[frank carlisle]

Dave,
I think that any signal that does not travel through the control lines to the plane would disqualify it for competition. Of course if you don't plan on ever competing then you have a solution for throttle.

[Dave Cook]

Frank,
Windy ran infared throttle control at the Nat's a few years ago and there was nothing in the rules to prevent it. I will check the current rules to be sure it was not added back in.

FAI f2b rules do prohibit it

Dave Cook

[frank carlisle]

I could certainly be wrong about the signal input. I thionk I read on a thread somewhere that what I said was so.
Maybe someone more knowledgeable will post something.

[Dave Cook]

There are a lot of advantages to having throttle and or mixture control in Stunt.
The main one is safety – In an emergency the pilot can shut down and land. This would cover anything from a loose motor, spectator in the circle, sick pilot. runaway motor etc.
No more wasted flights in a competition from a bad setting, engine protection from lean runs. No more over runs, etc.
Add another dimension of control - i.e. more power for the reverse wingover then less power thru the loops etc. and more power for the square eights, verticals and overheads. Then less power for landing,
Power down to reduce of wind up in the wind.
And I’m sure other advantages will emerge as skill develops. There is even the possibility of new maneuvers in the future using throttle.

Dave Cook

[Dave Cook]

I looked up the latest rules on using Spektrum for CLPA Throttle control and sure enough somebody recently added in words to prohibit using "radio Control" in control line - I guess to protect AMA's radio frequencies.

"CONTROL LINE GENERAL

. 2. General - A Control Line model is flown on one or more steel wire line(s) or metal line(s) of equivalent strength, attached to the model in a manner providing aerodynamic control of the model's elevation through manipulation of the control surfaces during flight. Such manipulation of control surfaces, and any other of the model's operational features, may be accomplished by mechanical means, by electrical impulses transmitted through the line(s), or by any other control system that does not interfere with the control of any other model or present a safety hazard to competitors or spectators. The use radio control to accomplish any control functions on Control Line models is specifically prohibited."



I can buy not using AMA's frequencies but Here is another job for our Phildelphia Lawyers - is Spektrum really radio control in AMA's definition. It is OK if you read the the preceding sentence that allows anything as long as it does not interfere with the control of any other model. Spektrum qualifies under this.



Dave Cook

[Leroy Heikes]

Dave;
     Steve Kaluf the AMA's Technical Director wrote the proposal to limit control signals to through the wires only at the last rules cycle and it passed. You can not use RC equipment or infra red signals to control functions on controline models. It made at least one scale models that competed in the 2003 scale NATS illegal in 2005.

Leroy

[Dave Cook]

The reason for the original post – the control line community should have the right under the rules to utilize and develop any new technology as long as it does not interfere with any other event. Recent rule changes resulted in needless restrictions on the new 2.4Ghz Spektrum radio equipment usage in control line. There appears to be no set to set interference problem with this technology. I do plan to sponsor a rules change to allow Spectrum type devices and look at a rewording to clearly allow infrared. Infrared should be allowable under this rule. Possible interference with another infrared controlled model on the field is a contest management problem – not a rules problem.

 I fully agree with the sanctity of the manual control of up and down through the lines, but all else should be open to development. Something like 2.4Ghz Spektrum RC equipment opens up several possibilities for auxiliary controls in control line stunt, scale and carrier.
I do not agree with the “traditional” - auxiliary control thru the lines only argument. I have been a control liner since 1946. “Line control only” was never a valid reason, in my consideration, to limit auxiliary controls. It was sponsored way back by the RC groups, with good cause, to prevent overwhelming of frequencies. The restriction did not come from the control line side.
Bob Machado developed a successful tethered control line profile on a single line a couple of years ago that was completely radio controlled from outside the circle – He had up/down, flaperons and rudder as well as throttle. An interesting experiment, but not control line. While it was completely illegal it showed what can be done but it lost the main element - the feel of the airplane.
Current thru the lines auxiliary control systems are pretty much custom made, most are cumbersome, unreliable and not readily available. I started with insulated lines back in the 50’s motivated by Lou Andrews and his special event wins at the Plymouth Internationals using throttle. I flew throttle stunt some back in the late 50’s – after a lot of practice it settled into: full throttle for the wing over, power down for the round loops and inverted, power up a little for squares and triangles, power up for verticals and overheads. It worked but the insulated lines were a pain, they made it not worth the effort. Lou Andrews often said there has to be a better way of getting auxiliary control to the model other than the lines. Here it is, Spektrum, 50 years later.

Control line is not a dinosaur or relic that needs to be “preserved”. It is a viable and still developing sport and we should not put restrictions on it. We have enough “nostalgia” events to preserve things for the traditionalists.

Should we have outlawed - glow plugs, flaps, uniflow tanks, tuned pipes, fiberglass, epoxy, hot stuff, monokote, carbon fiber, foam wings and above all ARF’s? The main point is new ideas and equipment come along all the time and this is one that our people should be able to use if they want to without arbitrary rule problems. 

Regards,
Dave Cook