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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Mike Griffin on March 13, 2014, 09:31:33 PM
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Coming soon to a town near you
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Probably more true than we would care to admit.
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That will never happen. You can't "FPV" with fine enough control to even fly a straight line in formation let alone do show stunts. To over-simplify and use a 2-dimensional real world example: I can "pilot" my car in formation from inside the vehicle quite easily, but neither myself nor anyone I've ever met can drive an R/C car in formation with even one other car. It just doesn't work. Maybe that's because it's not FPV it's from a third-person viewpoint. Who can say.
The drones in the picture travel rather fast and have no need for cameras or sensors that can see/sense within close proximity, that could be used for formation flight. They would either have to physically attach them together thereby creating a single aircraft, or install proximity sensors and a whole new control system capable of syncing drone #2, 3, 4 to ALL previous flying units in the formation. I don't see any practical use for such a formation flying control system, other than show stunts, and therefore such a system will never (99%) be developed by the DoD.
Apologies I am home sick today and bored, no other excuse for me writing this stuff...
But maybe some enterprising RCer, or bored college student, will do it just to see if they can. That would be cool!
Paul W.
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This is a pretty good example of drones flying in formation...
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YQIMGV5vtd4
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Very cool Jason.
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A co-worker of mine had a PhD in the math behind that sort of swarming bot. It's a lot more compliceteder than it seems.
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A co-worker of mine had a PhD in the math behind that sort of swarming bot. It's a lot more compliceteder than it seems.
"compliceteder"??? Really? Would you please enter a definition for that into urbandictionary.com? They wanted me to do it, but I have no idea what the word means. VD~ Steve
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"compliceteder"??? Really? Would you please enter a definition for that into urbandictionary.com? They wanted me to do it, but I have no idea what the word means. VD~ Steve
Oops -- I misspelled it. Complicateder. "More complicated, only worse".
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Sort of in this topic...
A fellow modeler was driving his grandkid to school the other day, and saw a car clip a (already on the ground) quad-copter, on a busy street in town. A little before 9 AM. He circled back, and picked it up, because he knew what it was, and then drove around the neighborhood, looking for someone who might be looking for something. The 'copter was outfitted well: GoPro camera, FPV gizmos and antennas and batteries and stuff on it; so, a quite costly unit! In a few blocks, he saw the person who was obviously searching for it-gazing in trees, up and down the streets-OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD-IN MORNING RUSH HOUR TRAFFIC!
The finder asked the loser if he was looking for something , and asked to describe it. He gave it back. The owner told him that it was too windy, and he didn't know where he was, but saw the car hit it while it was still in the air. Then, it was knocked-down, and unresponsive, and broken.
I have alot of mixed feelings about this! How stupid or ignorant, in the worst terms, does one have to be, to think that this flying activity is : 1. Safe, 2. Wise, 3. Or even a good idea to perform, in such a location?
Those are the kind of people and actions that are going to ruin model aircraft for EVERYBODY! Especially when the public understands that the "UAVs" have cameras, and "Return To Home" electronics aboard. GPS way-point observations, and someone sitting in a remote location, able to invade your space, without permission, then shoot video. Nope! This is gonna screw-up alot of regular modelers, because the public thinks everyone is doing it. This is becoming more of a rant than I intended, but, I see a bad moon rising, on this issue!
Later.
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I know the local shop seems to be selling a lot of those quad coptors. Hope their home owners insurance covers them if there is an accident.
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This is just starting up. The LHS is selling these as toys to adolescents. This doesn't bode well for the rank and file AMA members. There is going to be significant backlash directed towards all of us. Be prepared as we will be painted with the same brush. The recent gas leak explosion in Harlem that destroyed 2 building with 8 fatalities had overhead video from a quad copter broadcast on the local news. There were mentioned concerns about flying over the rescue crew. Next will be IUD-s delivered by quad copters. Certainly not out of the realm of possibility.
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I have a more scientific approach to the Thunderbird Drones. I hope the current teams are never replaced but I do think the challenge of getting four good sized drones to be able to fly in a close formation would be an interesting act in conjunction with the other air show acts. As the technology advances it may happen.
On the irresponsible flying of quads, seems like the Parkflyer epidemic all over again.
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Ever get the feeling that everything involving modeling (especially R/C) is evolving faster that one can keep up with it? I just got an invitation from our beloved AMA to be sure to follow the latest idea of wearing some sort of goggles that give you the view from the front of your R/C plane as it flys. Rather a bit of Sci-Fi for me. Anyone else get the invitation? I trashed mine.
Joe
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Joe that is exactly the way I feel. Guess I am stuck in the 50's and 60's. Just call me a blasa nerd I guess. I have flown and fly some sailplanes when I get a chance but that is as far as will ever go with it. Guess I will die a Control Line Dinosaur..
Mike
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(Deleted)
I have alot of mixed feelings about this! How stupid or ignorant, in the worst terms, does one have to be, to think that this flying activity is : 1. Safe, 2. Wise, 3. Or even a good idea to perform, in such a location?
Those are the kind of people and actions that are going to ruin model aircraft for EVERYBODY! Especially when the public understands that the "UAVs" have cameras, and "Return To Home" electronics aboard. GPS way-point observations, and someone sitting in a remote location, able to invade your space, without permission, then shoot video. Nope! This is gonna screw-up alot of regular modelers, because the public thinks everyone is doing it. This is becoming more of a rant than I intended, but, I see a bad moon rising, on this issue!
Later.
Interesting column here. If you have read AMA's Executive Director, D. Mathewson, Model Aviation, March 2014 issue, page 135, you should be well up on what is happening in this "...evolution of model aviation is first person view (FPV) and ...." IMO, it stinks! While some 90% -- of those that I have had inputs from -- just think Dave is simply showing how model aviation evolves, which it definitely does. However in my opinion, this involvement is going to be a problem for model aviation, especially RC. HA! - save your CL models, boys 'cause CL is gonna' rise agin. #^
IMO, as I love to read what is NOT said more-so than what IS said, and analyze such, I see AMA heading for the involvement of drones to be a test bed for industry, bringing $$$s to AMA, which with this new AMA Foundation getting started, and which we members will have no control over, is going to be something to think about. I strongly suggest that MA, 3-14, page 137 be strongly read over. Here is a time to make a difference. Some DVPs, III, VII, and XI and the Executive Vice President are up for reelection. Check out your district and think about a change. The Ex. DVP is for all members. Nominate someone. I qualify. S?P
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AMA is supposed to be an educational organization (thus: Academy); however, AMA has become about serving itself, not the membership. It seems to spend most of its time chasing the market and trying to identify the next "wave". This continuing chasing of fads keeps AMA from actually establishing an extended reputation based on supporting a core mission. I suppose they would argue that it keeps them in business. Undoubtedly they will argue that it also allows them to better serve their membership. Unfortunately, that "service" hasn't been provided to the CL community for many, many years.
What really frosts my pumpkin is that, after years of ignoring CL and doing little to serve it or help it grow, AMA will claim they don't serve CL because it only represents a very small percentage of the membership....
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This will probably be my last year to join AMA. I do not fly contests any more and the magazine has become one big advertising rag for Hobby King and the likes. I'm done.
Mike
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This will probably be my last year to join AMA. I do not fly contests any more and the magazine has become one big advertising rag for Hobby King and the likes. I'm done.
Mike
Hey, Mike, if you quit, they have won. Stay the course. As said long ago, "Damn the Torpedoes, Full steam ahead."
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AMA is supposed to be an educational organization (thus: Academy); however, AMA has become about serving itself, not the membership. It seems to spend most of its time chasing the market and trying to identify the next "wave". This continuing chasing of fads keeps AMA from actually establishing an extended reputation based on supporting a core mission. I suppose they would argue that it keeps them in business. Undoubtedly they will argue that it also allows them to better serve their membership. Unfortunately, that "service" hasn't been provided to the CL community for many, many years.
What really frosts my pumpkin is that, after years of ignoring CL and doing little to serve it or help it grow, AMA will claim they don't serve CL because it only represents a very small percentage of the membership....
Its the same for Free Flight
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Self-serving? You mean just like our government? Congress? Fine role models they are...
Meanwhile (while simmering) check out the latest in Aviation Week on drones and quad-copters. This story does involve hobby flying of R/C models. Luckily, CL and FF are not considered useful technologies! :-\ Steve
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/AW_03_17_2014_p20-671583.xml&p=1 (http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/AW_03_17_2014_p20-671583.xml&p=1)
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If you did not click on the link that Steve posted and read that article, you should. Thanks Steve for posting this.
Here is a paragraph out of the article that caught my eye..
"Model aircraft flying, meanwhile, has a good safety record under a voluntary program. “We don't see this as making a case for regulating model aircraft,” says the Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA), arguing Congress's direction to the FAA not to regulate aeromodeling is clear.
“We believe community-based safety programming similar to what has already proved successful for model aviation can be equally effective for small UAS and can allow these platforms to operate safely and harmoniously in the national airspace system,” says the AMA.
Langford, an aeromodeler himself, agrees model aircraft should not be regulated, but admits the community faces a challenge from the rapid growth in highly automated small UAVs flown by people who did not grow up with the safety culture of model aircraft flying."
My reaction to this knowing how screwed up government is, WANNA BET IT WONT AFFECT MODELING? It is just a matter of time.
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I suspect that the problem that the FAA has is that rulemaking is a very complicated process and the political appointees at the top of the FAA don't understand it and think they can use it as they please (a common affliction of the current administration.) But they are not competent to actually write the rule. The rule writers have to have great expertise in the related legal field and the rule has to be written within the intent of Congress. While the Obama administration doesn't seem to realize it (or deliberately ignores it), the Executive branch doesn't get to make up laws on its own. This is probably why the judge threw out the fine (which, at $10,000 seems pretty outrageous for the supposed violation), the FAA simply had no legal basis to harass the guy. This may also be the reason for the delay in issuing the rule. The bureaucrats are probably telling the political appointees that what they are asking for is illegal (FAA over-reach beyond Congressional intent), and the appointees are saying "do it anyway." Good bureaucrats can twist the whole thing into knots in situations like this (thankfully). Glad I fly control line, but we could still get hit by the shrapnel from this whole thing.
Scott
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This is a pretty good example of drones flying in formation...
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YQIMGV5vtd4
Great!
Let's just give this guy an unlimited Government grant, our money actually, so he can figure a way to make money with his project.
That some government crony can jump all over and make millions.
Don't forget where the seed money came from.
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The Blue Angels and Thunderbirds are sold as being typical of real Navy and USAF fighter pilots. The purpose being both recruiting and creating a favorable opinion among the voters to support ongoing defense spending.
In light of the vastly increased reliance on unmanned missiles and aircraft, both of these teams are bordering on false advertising.
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ftp://
That will never happen.
It's closer than you think....
http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/darpa-shows-unmanned-aircraft-flight-refueling-technology
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I like UC/FF/ and RC. Nothing is finer than holding unto a .60 powered stunter. I started to build models in early 60's with FF. Built a A-B-Spacer awhile back and had Sal Tabi check it out. what a thrill and it was scratch built. Flew fine. I also fly RC Quads/ c/p helis. Modern stuff is beyond stuff from several yeras ago. Right now on my building board is Magician .35. right beside it is my Master c/p 6ch heli. To the side on smaller board is a 1/2 A FF T-Bird Nostalgia bird.
I have a long time friend 50 years + who also flys FF/UC and RC. We have gone to Eloy and have flown FF. Done some UC with Ringmasters/ Madician .35's. Kind of neat to fly stuff we did back east in 60's. Yes you can go home to a degree. Plus now Quads/ c/p helis etc. Best of all worlds in models.
I know some dislike anything other than what they have, thats fine. For me if it flys I'm in all the way.
Cheers/Dan