More CF prop/hand interfacing in the Pacific NW

[Steve Helmick]

Went flying yesterday (Sat., July 3), and I chastised Pete FERGUSON for trying to adjust his NV while still holding his chicken stick in the same hand. If you don't see a potential problem there, get y'self more insurance, and a first aid kit, for sure...

Went flying today, and was launching Pete PETERSON on his 2nd flight, and he managed to wound himself with a CF prop on his Venus/B.40. He had the chicken stick in his left mitt, and was on the way to putting it in his pit box. Hit in the middle knuckle of the left hand pinkie finger, the prop went to the bone, and Pete leaked a lot. I shut the engine down, we taped him up tight and sent him out for another Attempt. It'll be ok in a week or two. But it's maybe interesting that a near accident and a real accident both involved the much lauded chicken stick. I don't use one, not liking to beat on the nose of my planes with a blunt object.  But I also don't often use CF props. When I do, out comes the electric finger. Just a thought... Steve

PS: Just talked to Diana. Pete whined all night about the pain, and so she sent him off to the local quick care store. They sent him to a real hospital, for X-rays, thinking his finger be broke.

[john e. holliday]

I guess if the carbon fiber props are worth the hazard of carelessness, so be it.  The coposite props from APC, Master Airscrew and a few others will do incredible damage also.  Even the old Top Flite 10-4 Power Point can do damage.  Have scars to prove it.  Need to be on the alert when using these meat cutters.  Even seen guys get hurt using electric starter by not paying attention.  Anyway hope every one makes it thru the 4th of July Weekend with any war stories.

[Eric Viglione]

I'm sure we have all buzzed our knuckles off the back of a wood prop before and didn't even break the skin. Usually followed by a sigh of relief.

A few years back I did it for the first time on the back side of a Bolly... no where near as forgiving, trust me! The guys that bandaged me up still ask me about it to this day when they see me, to see how I'm doing.

I can't imagine the damage coming down into the prop arc with my hand.... *cringes*

Keep vigil around these things folks, the moment you don't respect them, they bite!

PS: Don't you wood prop guys get to cocky! I got a guy here at the R/C field with an index finger tip missing to the first knuckle, he said a wood prop took it off so fast he didn't know what happened. The ER didn't seem to want to put it back on either, because it was a bit mangled. Ewww.

EricV

[Tim Wescott]

... and don't think that if you're using an electric that you're safe, either.  Electrics will bite, and they'll start themselves up to do it, too!

[Greg L Bahrman]

<But it's maybe interesting that a near accident and a real accident both involved the much lauded chicken stick. I don't use one,>

Not exactly understanding what you are trying to say here Steve, But it sounds like operator error to me. I use a chicken stick but I always put it down when the motor starts. Holding the stick and adjusting the needle at the same time is an invite to..........as you say having the prop cause a leak on your body. My friend started his PA40 (piped) as he was leaning over his sunglasses slipped off his nose and fell towards the prop he immediately grabbed for the glasses and stuck his hand in the prop.....not good but I still wear sunglasses...GRINS

[Gene Martine]

 
Steve:
Some years ago I used chicken sticks until one day at Huntersville, NC the prop kicked back and chipped the prop. Put a new prop and the same thing happened. Since than I've using a 2" piece of pipe connector slipped over my finger (see picture) or a piece of radiator hose. If the prop kicks back it pushes your finger away and you have to remove it to adjust the needle.
Gene
 

[Will Hinton]

I'm with Gene on this one, I've ruined two (read that $100 worth) CF props by using the good old chicken stick, and the one was only flipping the prop to circulate the after-run oil!  If you don't get a perfect flip and pull the stick across the trailing edge of the prop a bit, you can drag material off.  It's so bloody easy to do!
Will

[Bill Little]

Hi Guys,

No matter HOW careful we might think we are, accidents can, and do, happen.  How many guys (or gals) do you know who go out flying and don't take a First Aid kit?

I had a PA .61 kick back and cut the top of a finger the last time I was at Brodak's.  A Bolly 3 blade is very sharp, and a PA .61 is pretty strong.   Some thin CA stopped MOST of the bleeding, at least until I could get Aaron launched and walk the 10 yards to the garage! LOL!!  One of John's employees was in there (along with some other pilots) and it kinda shook him up.  I have had worse injuries, but it was good to have help so close.

I do like Genie Martini, and use a piece of rubber hose on my finger now.  Pipe coupling, reinforced heater hose, etc., but SOMETHING!  I no longer use a Chicken Stick, I have seen props damaged, and even the front of a model taken off by one!  The hose works fine.

Also, I cannot bring my self to go out alone anymore.  Major reason is, what happens if I DO accidentally remove part of a finger, etc.??  I could probably drive myself to the ER, but man would it take time to pick everything up, packed back into the car, etc..

Any way, PLEASE be careful.

Big Bear

[Randy Powell]

I use a chicken stick. It's got very soft rubber on it and that seems to protect rather expensive props. I was gratified that when Pete cut his finger, we all had some sort of first aid kit. Nice to know.

[FLOYD CARTER]

Hi Guys,

No matter HOW careful we might think we are, accidents can, and do, happen.  How many guys (or gals) do you know who go out flying and don't take a First Aid kit?

I don't agree.  This type of injury ONLY happens to someone who "is NOT careful".  By definition, only the careless will get fingers into a prop.

Over 65 years using engines with propellers, and never an injury.  I'm quite careful.

Floyd

[Bill Little]

I don't agree.  This type of injury ONLY happens to someone who "is NOT careful".  By definition, only the careless will get fingers into a prop.

Over 65 years using engines with propellers, and never an injury.  I'm quite careful.

Floyd

Hi Floyd,

I respect your opinion, and definitely the right of you to have an opinion! :-D

BUT!  You, my friend, have only been lucky.  No one is more careful than I am, and I have had a PA .61 with a Bolly CF 3 blader kick back and bite me.  NOTHING could have rpevented that as log as I was hand cranking the engine.

Actually, the only way for ANYONE to be sure and not get injured is for them to never crank or be around a running engine.  And that is the fact of the matter.  Accidents CAN happen regardless how careful, or not, anyone is.  It is by DEFINITION an ACCIDENT.

I DO play dumb a LOT on the internet, but I am not.  There are only 1%-2% percent of the people alive on Earth with more intelligence, than I have.  Not bragging, just a proven fact, many times over.  BUT!  I enjoy paying dumb, it keeps me out of trouble.

Regards,
Mongo

[RandySmith]

Steve:
Some years ago I used chicken sticks until one day at Huntersville, NC the prop kicked back and chipped the prop. Put a new prop and the same thing happened. Since than I've using a 2" piece of pipe connector slipped over my finger (see picture) or a piece of radiator hose. If the prop kicks back it pushes your finger away and you have to remove it to adjust the needle.
Gene
 

Uh HUH  and  how  many years  have I been telling  all you guys that???
I can't tell you how many props I have seen broke or split or chips by chicken sticks...not even sore fingers 

Randy

[Steve Helmick]

Just heard from Pete. No broken bones, no chips found, but the bone was dinged somewhat, and the whole enchilada was badly bruised. The Dr.'s said we did such a good job of cleaning and binding up the wound, there was no sign of infection...but they put him on antibiotics for a week (so they could get their kickback from the giant drug company?)...and splinted him up. So, he mowed the lawn today. Well, it's supposed to get hot by the end of the week (90F), so there's incentive to git 'er done. Sez it still hurts like the blazes.  Steve

[Greg L Bahrman]

<Uh HUH  and  how  many years  have I been telling  all you guys that???
I can't tell you how many props I have seen broke or split or chips by chicken sticks...not even sore fingers 

Randy>

I didn't know that. Although I haven't used carbon props that much, but I see your point. So I need to start looking for some auto heater hose

[RandySmith]

<Uh HUH  and  how  many years  have I been telling  all you guys that???
I can't tell you how many props I have seen broke or split or chips by chicken sticks...not even sore fingers 

Randy>

I didn't know that. Although I haven't used carbon props that much, but I see your point. So I need to start looking for some auto heater hose

Hi Greg

Works for ALL  props  not only carbon, Wood props get split or dinged  very easy

Randy

[Steve Helmick]

I recall Howard using a hunk of heater hose about 12"-15" long. Probably has a carbon fiber tube inside. Homemade, with 45 deg. biased rovings.  Steve

[Balsa Butcher]

Agree with much that has been said but let's not forget that many of the prop injuries have nothing to do with what method one uses to flip the prop. It is carelessness and complacency after the engine has started that causes many of the injuries. Often is it caused by reaching around the prop to tune the needle valve while holding a tach in front of the prop, possibly forgetting that you just switched from a 11 1/4" 3 blade prop to a 12" 2 blade prop.  Two that I know of personally are trying to put a cap on an overflow line while the engine was running and another happened when the pilot was distracted by someone while tuning the engine...Ouch!

Personally I give my helper a brief safety briefing whenever I start a plane, especially with and APC or CF prop that is a meat slicer. Covered are the prop, airplane transfer procedure especially if the start is upside down, and release signal that will be used. This is probably more for my sake than his or hers but it has worked so far and gets one focused on safety. Protection wise, I use a butchers glove that is knife resistant because of the woven-steel thread construction. Leather gloves or the mentioned finger tubing also work very well. 

[Mike Scholtes]

To Gila Pete's sage advice I would add, "Tell the kibbutzers and "helpers" to stand back and no talking during start-up until plane is launched, except between pilot and launcher." I very pointedly tell people to stand away and not try to talk to me or my launcher while we are starting. Serious flyers are rarely the source of the problem, but we have the other kind too. If it hurts some feelings, tough. Better than the alternative.