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Author Topic: Thinking about an Axioma RTF; trying to understand the impact of the BOM rule  (Read 2078 times)

Teodorico Terry

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Hello,

I have been thinking about purchasing an Axioma; the models are beautifully built and it is doubtful that any of my builds will ever reach that level of perfection.  I believe that in the US the BOM rule is still in effect; read through the long thread related to it. With that in mind my take away was that the model could probably be used at local contests but definitely not at the NATS. Is that generally correct?

Now if I were to receive the model unpainted or in its white base coat (I do not know if that is even possible) and then proceeded to finish it would it be legal to fly at the NATs?  I know that several Sharks have been used and I think that to be incompliance with the rules the pilot had to apply the finish.  Is my understanding correct?

I doubt that I will ever be a good enough pilot to be a serious contender but given the opportunity I would like to be able to participate; the appearance points are not important to me if giving them up means I get a chance to fly.  I also fly R/C pattern and if the NSRCA had a BOM rule participation would drop significantly. I enjoy building but also realize that building a truly competitive model takes skills that I either don't have or won't develop quickly enough.

Thanks,

Teo

Online Brett Buck

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I have been thinking about purchasing an Axioma; the models are beautifully built and it is doubtful that any of my builds will ever reach that level of perfection.  I believe that in the US the BOM rule is still in effect; read through the long thread related to it. With that in mind my take away was that the model could probably be used at local contests but definitely not at the NATS. Is that generally correct?

     You could not use it in the traditional NATS Junior, Senior, or Open Championship. You *could* use it in NATS Advanced, with no appearance points. Other unofficial events (like BEG/INT), check with the ED, but generally those also allow you to fly, with no appearance points.

Quote
Now if I were to receive the model unpainted or in its white base coat (I do not know if that is even possible) and then proceeded to finish it would it be legal to fly at the NATs?  I know that several Sharks have been used and I think that to be incompliance with the rules the pilot had to apply the finish.  Is my understanding correct?

   No, I don't think so, you have to build it to qualify, with the caveats shown in the rule book. The "kit" Shark was a special one-off that was far less complete than just not painted.

   Brett

Offline Dan McEntee

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Hello,

I have been thinking about purchasing an Axioma; the models are beautifully built and it is doubtful that any of my builds will ever reach that level of perfection.  I believe that in the US the BOM rule is still in effect; read through the long thread related to it. With that in mind my take away was that the model could probably be used at local contests but definitely not at the NATS. Is that generally correct?

Now if I were to receive the model unpainted or in its white base coat (I do not know if that is even possible) and then proceeded to finish it would it be legal to fly at the NATs?  I know that several Sharks have been used and I think that to be incompliance with the rules the pilot had to apply the finish.  Is my understanding correct?

I doubt that I will ever be a good enough pilot to be a serious contender but given the opportunity I would like to be able to participate; the appearance points are not important to me if giving them up means I get a chance to fly.  I also fly R/C pattern and if the NSRCA had a BOM rule participation would drop significantly. I enjoy building but also realize that building a truly competitive model takes skills that I either don't have or won't develop quickly enough.

Thanks,

Teo


   Hi Teo;
     Generally that is correct. You could fly it just about anywhere you want with no appearance points, except for Open class at the NATS. Many clubs in the US do not adhere to the B.O.M. but also many do. Those that do will more than likely let you fly with loss of appearance points.
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    Dan McEntee
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Online Steve Berry

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Trying to find it online, as it sounds intriguing. Do you have a link to it so we can check out our ourselves?
Thanks.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


Offline pmackenzie

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Trying to find it online, as it sounds intriguing. Do you have a link to it so we can check out our ourselves?
Thanks.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

I had the same question :), so I Googled a bit and found some info.
There is a good round up of most of the available planes, including the Axioma, in this copy of Lina. Article, in English, starts on page 14.

http://flyinglines.org/LINA.1.20.pdf
MAAC 8177

Offline Craig Beswick

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Teo, you can buy the Axioma unpainted.

You can also buy wings, stabiliser and elevators on their own, unpainted.

Not being a US national I don't have a working knowledge of the, "BOM", rule. I think Shuhrat would build you what you want to whatever level you want. Or to where it may qualify to meet the, "BOM".

A member of my club has one of his earlier models and it flies extremely well. However, the gentlemen is an exceptional pilot!

All the best
Craig
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"The Ninja"

Offline Craig Beswick

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He is only on facebook.
Shuhrat Ishbutaev.

Search the facebook group Control Line Flying

Craig
AUS 87123
"The Ninja"

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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If you are not a "serious contender", you will not be concerned about loss of appearance points due to the BOM rule.  So I advise you to go ahead and fly an RTF in a contest, just for the experience of contest participation.

Once you forget about trophies, contests get a lot more fun.
89 years, but still going (sort of)
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Teodorico Terry

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Hello All,

Thank you guys for your responses.  As mentioned earlier he does not have a website, but goes through facebook.  I visited his page again and it is possible to purchase the model in its gel coat or simply painted white. Considering the time an effort that goes into making the models his prices are quite reasonable, a quick FB message and he will answer your questions.  It is also possible to purchase a carrying case for the model which is suitable for airline travel and that is one of the things that got me interested.

Teo

Online Doug Moon

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If the model comes with Gel-coat applied by someone else then that makes it not legal for BOM required events. This pretty much wipes out all of the European manufactured models from event 322.. This was specifically written in the rules for event 322 JSO so one cannot "purchase" such an advantage.  It also helps to keep the tradition of building and finishing the model you compete with in the event 322.

Doug Moon
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Offline Craig Beswick

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Doug,
could you clarify the situation for me as a non US competitor.

Buying a pre sheeted foam wing with bellcrank, landing gear blocks and adjustable leadouts is okay by the rule? But, buying a composite wing such as Trian has made would be outside the rules?

I'm not looking to start a war just interested where the line was drawn.

Regards
Craig
AUS 87123
"The Ninja"

Offline Trostle

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Here is the BOM rule from the AMA Control Line Precision Aerobatics rule book.

The BOM rule does not apply to the beginner class and no appearance point will be awarded. (Event 323)

For the Intermediate, Advanced and Expert classes, the contestant does not need to be the builder of the model but no appearance points will be given if the contestant is not the builder of the model.  (Events 324, 325 and 326)

Almost all contests in the US are flown to the skill class rules.  Some of these contests opt to not have appearance points.  Generally, the only contest in the US where the BOM rule applies is Event 322, Precision Aerobatics, at the Nats for the Junior, Senior and Open age groups.
 
From the AMA rule book:

"2.1. Builder of Model.

The CD shall make every reasonable effort to ascertain that each pilot has
completely “constructed‟ the model(s) the pilot uses in competition, with
“constructed” to be interpreted as the action required to complete a model
starting with no more prefabrication than acquiring 1 of the 2 main
structures preassembled prior to merging and finishing.  The 2 main
structures are considered to be: 1) the wing(s) and 2) the fuselage(s). 
Flaps, rudders, elevators & horizontal stabilizers are not considered main
structures, therefore there are no limitations on level of their
prefabrication, and only the finish portion of this rule applies to them. In
unconventional stunt designs, such as a multi-engine wing with engine
nacelles, or a flying wing, they are to be considered as multiple merged
structures, so no level of prefabrication is allowed, and on multi wing
planes, the wing total counts as one structure, but the pilot must be the one
who joins and aligns the multiple wings together.  In the case of take-apart
models, the take-apart hardware must be installed by the pilot.  The pilot
must be the person who applies the finish to the plane, to “finish” meaning
the pilot fills the surfaces and applies the covering and finish to the
completed model where covering and finish is applied. Whereas on the
surface of the main structures, molded structural surface underlayment’s
including but not limited to molded fiberglass, or carbon fiber that are
filled or colored as a result of the manufacturing process that may show as
part of the final finish may be used, as long as this surface underlayment is
applied, filled and colored by the pilot.  Control systems such as but not
limited to the bellcrank, control horns, pushrods, etc. may be purchased,
but must be installed by the pilot. Other accessories and hardware may be
purchased or otherwise obtained for their function such as, but not limited
to: engines, tanks, wheels, canopies, airframe take-apart hardware, and
have no bearing in the way “main structures” are counted."

Keith

Teodorico Terry

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Keith,

Thank you for posting that information; it appears that the option is there to get either a mostly constructed wing or fuselage but not both.  Now I understand why fully constructed wings can be used as the starting point for a finished model. It looks like in principle the wings and stabs could be purchased as long one builds the fuselage on their own.

Teo

Online Brett Buck

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Keith,

Thank you for posting that information; it appears that the option is there to get either a mostly constructed wing or fuselage but not both.  Now I understand why fully constructed wings can be used as the starting point for a finished model. It looks like in principle the wings and stabs could be purchased as long one builds the fuselage on their own.

     You could do that, however, if you are just starting to try to compete, and are not going for Orestes, Paul, and David on your first try, you shouldn't. One of the advantages of these complete RTF packages is that they are generally "right" as they come. Not that they can't be improved upon, but having an airplane that you know is pretty close to in trim as it comes is an overwhelming advantage, worth *far more* than the potential 15-20 points you might give up. Add to this that you can replace the 6+ months you might spend building an airplane with 6 months of practice, and it becomes a really easy decision.

    If you go far enough, of course, you want to learn to build and finish at a high level, too, but even then, a few appearance points here and there make a difference on 2 days out of the year - Friday and Saturday at the NATs. People worry *far too much* about a few points in appearance when they are typically giving up 50-100 points flying, particularly in INT/ADV.

     Brett

Offline Tim Wescott

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... One of the advantages of these complete RTF packages is that they are generally "right" as they come. Not that they can't be improved upon, but having an airplane that you know is pretty close to in trim as it comes is an overwhelming advantage, worth *far more* than the potential 15-20 points you might give up. ...

Just a comment on this -- one of the most profound lessons I learned on the importance of trim was getting a hand-me-down airplane from Paul Walker when he moved to his current home.  The difference between my best trim job on a smaller plane and that plane from Paul cannot be accurately described (just look up all the synonyms for "very good", and line them up in a row).

I don't know about contests outside of the west coast, but around here we fly beginner through Expert, and the BOM rule only applies to whether you get appearance points or not.  You can fly anything, you just can't get appearance points for it.

Keith,

Thank you for posting that information; it appears that the option is there to get either a mostly constructed wing or fuselage but not both.  Now I understand why fully constructed wings can be used as the starting point for a finished model. It looks like in principle the wings and stabs could be purchased as long one builds the fuselage on their own.

Teo

The "gotcha" in there is that, first, no gel coat -- that counts as part of the finish, and second, no pre-installed control system.  What they were really aiming at with those rules was to allow the current practice of buying a set of wing halves that are built up to the bare wood stage then finishing up a wing from that -- that's the intent that the rules were formulated around.

If any US stunt person wants to make life interesting, they can get their wing molds and autoclave ready, then open a bed & breakfast with build weekends, just like the full-scale "kit" manufacturers do.  Then you can come by, use the facilities but be the only one who actually lays the prepreg into the mold, and leave with a BOM compliant, molded wing that's straighter than straight.
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Teodorico Terry

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I like your idea, not sure that my wife would be too keen on such a B&B.  As you said, the main advantage of a production model is the use of either jigs or molds which help create a model that is straight and properly aligned.  Getting to that level of build quality is not easy and it takes time and dedication. 

Offline Tim Wescott

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Doug,
could you clarify the situation for me as a non US competitor.

Buying a pre sheeted foam wing with bellcrank, landing gear blocks and adjustable leadouts is okay by the rule? But, buying a composite wing such as Trian has made would be outside the rules?

I'm not looking to start a war just interested where the line was drawn.

Regards
Craig

A pre-sheeted set of foam wing halves with landing gear blocks but without bellcrank or leadouts is OK.  I'm not sure about leadout guides, or a complete wing without a control system installed.

The control system not installed is specifically called out in the rules.

The surface finish takes some rule-parsing, because they wanted something general enough to keep people from sneaking things past the intent.  But gel coat, or a molded finish that's ready to scuff up and put on a final coat, are definitely not OK.

Just accept it as an American eccentricity.  It all comes from "you just have to build your own plane", but I've seen firestorms of discussion about what "build your own plane" means -- so we have rules.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Mike Alimov

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Having built a few take-apart airplanes, I can tell you that the skill required to make your own fuselage to match someone else's molded wings and tail is such that, if you able to accomplish that, you probably could just as easily build the entire plane.
This is all to say that it doesn't make sense to order wings and tail only.  Get the whole plane, have it painted to your preference, and enjoy flying it - leisurely or competitively - anytime, any place - except at the US Nats Open class.

Offline Dan McEntee

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Just accept it as an American eccentricity.  It all comes from "you just have to build your own plane", but I've seen firestorms of discussion about what "build your own plane" means -- so we have rules.

     And this is not a new dilemma! Go back and read some of the magazine editorials from the 50's and early 60's !! There was a pretty big outcry when pre machined leading edges, trailing edges and other pre molded parts started appearing in kits! Pure heresy back then!! Top Flite was vilified for all machine worked balsa in their kits, and then they iced the cake with Monokote!!
    Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
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