The unlikely stunt ship

[Bill Ervin]

I need to get this off my chest, it's been bugging me for the last 25 years.  This may or may not be interesting.

Back in the mid-80's a co-worker/flying buddy and I pieced together a c/l plane from parts found wherever we could find them, and came up with a somewhat unconventional, super ugly great flying stunt ship.  The goal was to simply have something for my friend to fly.  I wish I had a picture of it but the flying qualities of this plane were so good that I still have a pretty good recollection of the construction and set-up so that I could probably build another from memory...  if it comes to that.

Let me describe it to you, along with the "design theory", and then tell you about how it flew.  

We started with a Ringmaster (S-2 version I think) wing that was salvaged from a crash.  My friend needed a fuse so I dropped off a 4" wide plank of balsa (or was it 6") thinking that, when I came by the next day, he would cut himself another RM fuse.  Wrong!  He turned that plank on edge and cut out a hole for the wing, left the piece the full 4" width from stem to stern!  By the time I came over to help he had the new "fuse" glued to the old wing.  He did at least round off the front corners (think GeeBee R1 side-view except way uglier) I helped him with a standard looking stab/elev of about 25%.

Mono wheel ala Flite Streak, to keep the ugly theme going.  

We found an old Testors McCoy 40 so it was put to use because it was all we had.  My friend said he had a set of store bought Sullivan lines labeled .015x60'.  They seemed a little long so we measured them.  70 Feet! neither one of us knew how to finish lines so we left them full length.

Big surprise it turned out super heavy!  Can't remember if we weighed it but trust me it was a rock on a string, nothing left to do but fly it.

We ended up with a small, ugly, overweight (we thought), more than adequately powered plane with a huge amount of side area on super long lines.

From the first flight the Series 21 McCoy 40 ran perfect in a strong, steady 4-stroke and the plane flew beautifully!  That little plane with it's tall fuselage kept those 70 foot lines tight!  I'm sure the good-running engine had a lot to do with our success but the thing was flying way better than expected.  It went over the WO without a whimper and the square loops and eights, not perfect but close to correct geometry, seemed huge!  The corners were probably not super tight but, because the plane was so small and the lines so long, the corners appeared tight in relation to the overall maneuver.  The impression was that we were waiting for the plane to get to the next intersection/corner.

My friend and I took turns flying many patterns with that ugly little plane that day.  That "set-up" was FUN.   I need to build another....

Bill

[Russell Shaffer]

There may just be something good to be said about that super wide fuselage behind the wing.  I was out in my garage this afternoon thinking about this very subject. Don't most modern stunters have a very high profile behind the wing?

[Bill Ervin]

I've noticed that too Russell, I guess the most famous design with the tall fuse would be the Nobler.  Bob Gialdini talks about this at length in his Olympic article from 45 years ago.  If I remember it correctly he felt it could be taken too far so that the plane could suffer from "weathervaning" in high winds.  When I attended the Golden State Champs a few years ago my plane's fuselage looked like a skinny pencil lined up against all the tall fuselages of the top fliers planes.  

I think the current trend is to not only have the correct amount of side-area, but to also have it properly distributed.  There's a phrase the engineers use to describe this, involving the word "centroid" but the phrase escapes me.

[Clint Ormosen]

Cute story, but you lost me at "We started with a Ringmaster wing.............."

[Bill Ervin]

Cute story, but you lost me at "We started with a Ringmaster wing.............."

Kind of like being caught riding a moped by your Harley friends?

[John Stiles]

Cute story, but you lost me at "We started with a Ringmaster wing.............."

Yeah, some people strangle on a gnat, then turn around and swallow a camel........!  

[Terrence Durrill]

Clint, 
             Why bad mouth the Ringmaster?  There is plenty of evidence that it is the most popular control line plane ever designed.  After all, there are untold numbers of people who have built and have flown the old bird............as a matter of fact, they still do.  I have three in my collection and they are among my favorites.   The old "Ringer" is a true classic design and deserves our respect!.............TDurrill             

[Shultzie]

Thanks for sharing this story...
Years ago....when I was attending Portland State U ...I lived in a small studio apartment, worked part time at the 3 Sandy's Camera Shops on weekends and often would make extra $$$ doing janitorial clean up work  on Sunday nights  on Jack Sandersons 70 ft. pleasure craft that in those early daze days..owners of business's could use these as "tax write offs." 
 
The boat center was just a short distance away from the Delta Park flying fields near the Columbia river for both RC and control line.
I made it a habit to always drive by on the way home...to CHECK OUT THE WASTE CANS AND DO MY HABITUAL DUMPSTER DIVING ROUTINE AT THE FLYING FIELDS where I SELDOM LEFT WITHOUT SOME AMAZINGLY GREAT "FINDS!"

The best GLEANING took place at the R/C flying strip. I often found some beautiful and repairable model parts..and especially usable wings and all kinds of usual modeling parts that were so quickly disposed of in often fits of rage and haste.

I then would pack up and take these busted models etc...home  in garbage bags and sort through these with zona saws and Exacto knives in hand.
What a great source that I would use to trade for badly needed CLPA items...such as fuel, finishing supplies. etc.

[John Stiles]

Years ago....
I then would pack up and take these busted models etc...home  in garbage bags and sort through these with zona saws and Exacto knives in hand.
What a great source that I would use to trade for badly needed CLPA items...such as fuel, finishing supplies. etc.

And I thought I was the only one.....................you'd be surprised at how many tires and mufflers I found. Got a whole plane outta the trash barrel at an R/C flying field once.

[Shultzie]

In those years  (before I started getting test batches of Pactra from the Mfg.) Thankfully I stayed in touch so many of my fellow Portland Oregon modelers who would help me out by providing me with small amounts of finishing materials....
the late Tim Dunlop, Gene Matheny would give me left over various colored dope...which I would pour and mix into a larger cans.
WHAT AMAZINGLY BEAUTIFUL OR GOODGODLEEAWFUL' ...COLORS OF THE SPECTRUM WOULD MAGICALLY APPEAR using this kind of mixture.
However the down side of mixing these..would often cause some strange results...(for example...one of my old All Amercian Seniors paint job...came with the most UNUSUAL FINISH...THAT RESEMBLED AN OLD VINTAGE "KRINKLEE"
 OIL PAINTING APPEARANCE. 

[John Stiles]

In those years  (before I started getting test batches of Pactra from the Mfg.) Thankfully I stayed in touch so many of my fellow Portland Oregon modelers who would help me out by providing me with small amounts of finishing materials....
the late Tim Dunlop, Gene Matheny would give me left over various colored dope...which I would pour and mix into a larger cans.
WHAT AMAZINGLY BEAUTIFUL OR GOODGODLEEAWFUL' ...COLORS OF THE SPECTRUM WOULD MAGICALLY APPEAR using this kind of mixture.
However the down side of mixing these..would often cause some strange results...(for example...one of my old All Amercian Seniors paint job...came with the most UNUSUAL FINISH...THAT RESEMBLED AN OLD VINTAGE "KRINKLEE"
 OIL PAINTING APPEARANCE. 

All mine came up od green or puke purple..............LOL

[Norm Faith Jr.]

Clint, 
             Why bad mouth the Ringmaster?  There is plenty of evidence that it is the most popular control line plane ever designed.  After all, there are untold numbers of people who have built and have flown the old bird............as a matter of fact, they still do.  I have three in my collection and they are among my favorites.   The old "Ringer" is a true classic design and deserves our respect!.............TDurrill             

Agreed...Go pay your entry fee and fly expert at a contest with Dee Rice and Joe Gilbert with a "Ringmaster" on the strings..."You better hump!" If you want second place.
Norm

[Sean McEntee]

Clint, 
             Why bad mouth the Ringmaster?  There is plenty of evidence that it is the most popular control line plane ever designed.  After all, there are untold numbers of people who have built and have flown the old bird............as a matter of fact, they still do.  I have three in my collection and they are among my favorites.   The old "Ringer" is a true classic design and deserves our respect!.............TDurrill             

              Well said!

              Anyone who thinks that the Ringmaster isnt compeditive needs to look at the RSM reengineered kit.  I built one as my first effort post-Iraq.  Slowed the controls down with a longer horn that comes with the kit.  Motor is an L&J Fox 35.  Some guys have been finishing out at 21-25 oz but mine came out at 27oz...still not bad for an airplane that size. Due to the overpowering nature of the L&J motor, I fly it on 68' lines.   Not bragging but I have many OTS wins with it and a couple Classic wins, beating Noblers, Shark 45s, Ares', Smoothies', and other compeditive classic designs.  It's gone up in weight a little over the years from oil absorbtion, but its still a solid flying airplane and I love flying it.  Its getting recovered and refinished this winter. 

  Beyond my own efforts, I've seen guys put 520 pt scores on the board with ringmasters, and many more guys place in Advanced and Expert.  A Ringmaster/Fox 35 is as American as a Chevy, yes, but do it right and its compeditive!   

[Clint Ormosen]

Clint, 
             Why bad mouth the Ringmaster?  There is plenty of evidence that it is the most popular control line plane ever designed.  After all, there are untold numbers of people who have built and have flown the old bird............as a matter of fact, they still do.  I have three in my collection and they are among my favorites.   The old "Ringer" is a true classic design and deserves our respect!.............TDurrill             

              Well said!

              Anyone who thinks that the Ringmaster isnt compeditive needs to look at the RSM reengineered kit.  I built one as my first effort post-Iraq.  Slowed the controls down with a longer horn that comes with the kit.  Motor is an L&J Fox 35.  Some guys have been finishing out at 21-25 oz but mine came out at 27oz...still not bad for an airplane that size. Due to the overpowering nature of the L&J motor, I fly it on 68' lines.   Not bragging but I have many OTS wins with it and a couple Classic wins, beating Noblers, Shark 45s, Ares', Smoothies', and other compeditive classic designs.  It's gone up in weight a little over the years from oil absorbtion, but its still a solid flying airplane and I love flying it.  Its getting recovered and refinished this winter. 

  Beyond my own efforts, I've seen guys put 520 pt scores on the board with ringmasters, and many more guys place in Advanced and Expert.  A Ringmaster/Fox 35 is as American as a Chevy, yes, but do it right and its compeditive!   

Agreed...Go pay your entry fee and fly expert at a contest with Dee Rice and Joe Gilbert with a "Ringmaster" on the strings..."You better hump!" If you want second place.
Norm

I'm late back to the party, but........

 Chill out guys. How you got all of that out of my comment is beyond me. I never said the Ringmaster didn't fly well or couldn't be competitive in a contest or any other of the statements made here. All I said (mostly in jest) was I lost interest in the OP story because of the Ringmaster wing. And if you MUST know why I said it, it's because I'm sick to death of hearing about the stupid thing and I happen to think it's one of the ugliest profile models around. My opinion.

Now the Ringmaster Imperial or the Sportster is another story. I happen to think those are pretty cool.

[Sean McEntee]

I'm late back to the party, but........

 Chill out guys. How you got all of that out of my comment is beyond me. I never said the Ringmaster didn't fly well or couldn't be competitive in a contest or any other of the statements made here. All I said (mostly in jest) was I lost interest in the OP story because of the Ringmaster wing. And if you MUST know why I said it, it's because I'm sick to death of hearing about the stupid thing and I happen to think it's one of the ugliest profile models around. My opinion.

Now the Ringmaster Imperial or the Sportster is another story. I happen to think those are pretty cool.

     Ehh...no biggie.  And everyone is entitled to their opinion.  I always thought the Magician line wasnt that attractive.

[Clint Ormosen]

     Ehh...no biggie.  And everyone is entitled to their opinion.  I always thought the Magician line wasnt that attractive.

Thank you. I actually somewhat like the Magician but never built one. I've built two Ringmasters, though.

[john e. holliday]

Planes are like ladies,  beauty is in the eye of the beholder.    To me any plane I could afford was a beauty.

[Bill Ervin]

Not the direction I thought this thread was gonna go.  Appreciate everyones comments though. 

Clint, hope to see you at a west coast contest sometime this fall!

[john e. holliday]

Well Bill, you never know which direction a post is going to go.  I have seen some get way out of line.   Anyway I need to get another Cotton Candy built as I would put it in the same league as the Doctor.   Took me a while to figure out that the Blue LA's on that plane.

[Bill Ervin]

I need to build another CC too Doc.  I've got an electric motor that might be perfect. 

Making plans for VSC, hope to see you there!  Bill

[Jim Kraft]

Well Sean; I guess cool is in the eye of the beholder also.