News:



  • June 28, 2025, 06:40:17 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?  (Read 4639 times)

Offline Dennis Moritz

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2485
I just got back from the NATs. Great time. After looking closely at the top 5 round I had a thought about what makes the top fliers the TOP. Seems to me that the best fliers eliminate mistakes as much as possible. They put all the bottoms at the right height, do all shapes with no bobbles, hit all the corners etc. do all the rounds round... I think that many of the top 20 managed excellent maneuvers, even managed to score high patterns, but most did not (could not) put their best work back to back or maneuver to maneuver. They botched something. Whereas the top scorers, David and Orestes in particular, managed a uniform quality. Every maneuver was very good. Seems to me that the elimination of mistakes (as much as possible) is one flying quality that separates the very best from the best.

Offline Steve Fitton

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2278
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2009, 09:37:35 PM »
In many respects, the topmost fliers are those who have the easiest planes to fly. 
Steve

Offline ray copeland

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 874
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2009, 09:46:46 PM »
Sometimes a lot can be said about "paying your dues"!!!    y1
Ray from Greensboro, North Carolina , six laps inverted so far with my hand held vertically!!! (forgot to mention, none level!) AMA# 902150

Online Dan McEntee

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 7513
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2009, 10:22:11 PM »
   There is an old saying, "Practice makes perfect" and another one about a guy asking another guy how to get to Carnegie Hall and the answer was "Practice, practice , practice!" The key to winning the NATS or really any contest is consistency, confidence and really knowing the pattern and what the tricks should really look like. Add to that consistency and confidence in your model and power plant. Having a model or design that really fits you and your style of flying. The consistency and confidence can be found at the bottom of every jug of fuel! Dave Fitzgerald is what, a Junior, Senior, and Open National Champion and World Champion?  Think how many patterns he's flown in that time. A natural talent helps a lot but is no real substitute for plain old hard work and dedication. And you have to really want it. I think this basic description fits pretty much fits the whole final 5, or the whole top twenty for that matter.
   Just my humble opinion.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
EAA  1038824
AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline Steve Helmick

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10265
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2009, 10:54:59 PM »
A good coach. I'm wondering if David gets coaching from several, or one? I'm kinda thinkin' that multiple coaches could be detrimental. I've seen David fly several different styles of patterns...hard corners, soft corners...and back to hard corners. His new plane really works well, without a huge number of flights on it yet. It's a good looking plane, too.  8) Steve
 
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Randy Powell

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10476
  • TreeTop Flyer
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2009, 11:54:50 PM »
I once asked Paul Walker, many moons ago, why he was so much better than the other guys we were flying with. He said something to the effect that he had about 10,000 more flights than most people and a heck of a lot of those flights were in front of a good coach.
Member in good standing of P.I.S.T
(Politically Incorrect Stunt Team)
AMA 67711
 Randy Powell

Offline proparc

  • 2015
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2390
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2009, 01:41:48 AM »
Gene Schaeffer flew more than other people. I watched him. Not only did he fly more, he seemed to practice each maneuver harder on each flight. In short, he took it seriously.
Milton "Proparc" Graham

Offline Frank Sheridan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 189
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2009, 06:14:29 AM »
Just out of curiousity, has anyone ever logged how many practice flights they make in a season? Or maybe how much fuel they consume in a years time?

Offline Wayne Collier

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 504
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2009, 06:19:35 AM »
Don't forget the big three that come after desire -- time, money, and opportunity.  I suspect that there are guys out there that would be very competitive as pilots and builders.  Guys who have passion and skill, but they are working two jobs and still trying to make ends meet.  They don't get a lot of build and fly time because of work and family obligations.  Travel to contests or even just a vacation is a far off hope.  Vacation from work is used to roof or paint the house or patch the old work truck together for a few more months, hopefully.  I don't for a moment doubt the skill and passion of the top contenders of CL stunt.  It is a really wonderful thing to watch a great flier do a great pattern.  I also realize that "paying dues," as one person put it, isn't just in time and effort -- it can be an economic thing as well.  This isn't just a model airplane realization, it applies to things like bass fishing and other hobbies as well.
Wayne Collier     Northeast Texas
<><

never confuse patience with slowness never confuse motion with progress

Offline Alan Resinger

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 580
  • Welcome to the Stunt Hanger.
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2009, 08:03:11 AM »
A few years back in late January I was down in Seattle and dropped by Paul Walker's house on the way back to Vancouver.  At the time Paul was busy building his new ship which was the Saito powered P-51.  I looked under one of his benches and counted 33 gallons of fuel which he said would get him through the spring and probably just about up the the Nats.  You can do the math if you like. 

Offline RandySmith

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 13756
  • Welcome to the Stunt Hanger.
    • Aero Products
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2009, 08:15:35 AM »
I just got back from the NATs. Great time. After looking closely at the top 5 round I had a thought about what makes the top fliers the TOP. Seems to me that the best fliers eliminate mistakes as much as possible. They put all the bottoms at the right height, do all shapes with no bobbles, hit all the corners etc. do all the rounds round... I think that many of the top 20 managed excellent maneuvers, even managed to score high patterns, but most did not (could not) put their best work back to back or maneuver to maneuver. They botched something. Whereas the top scorers, David and Orestes in particular, managed a uniform quality. Every maneuver was very good. Seems to me that the elimination of mistakes (as much as possible) is one flying quality that separates the very best from the best.



Good Hand-eye coordination (some natural talent)

Desire (this is key)

A very high level of concentration

practice (with coaching and concentration)

technique

A well trimmed ship (knowledge of the plane)

and burning a lot of fuel while being serious on every flight about fixing mistakes and improving you presentation to the judges,

worse thing you can do is practice and not fix the mistakes, you will be able to do every mistake near perfectly then

Regards
Randy

Offline Bradley Walker

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1192
    • The Urban Rifleman
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2009, 12:05:28 PM »
A good coach.

Well...  I don't know.  For some maybe...  Doug Moon just sees it.  He has barely been coached at all.  He was not only *not* coached going to the Nats this year, he barely flew...  He had something like a dozen flights in 2009 before Muncie, and we stopped flying in September of 2008.

I do not think Derrek Barry is monster practice guy either.

Some folks just got it.  That is hard to swallow for those of us do not.  Don't get me wrong, great athletes can be great through practice and determination, but there are those out there who just have the tools to do the job from the get go.

Also, I think the number of bad coaches outnumbers the good coaches about 10 to 1.  In other words, there is an overwhelming amount of bad advice out there compared to constructive advice.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
-George Bernard Shaw

Offline john e. holliday

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 22979
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2009, 12:06:05 PM »
Without a great coach who knows what the judges are looking for a person is at a loss to get serious.  Of course different judges looks for different things.  

As Mike Pratt told me one time when Paul Walker was doing a flight in Chickopee one year, I was told not to watch it as all he was doing was checking an engine run.  He said that when Paul gets on the circle in front of the judges he cracks down on his flying.  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Ralph Wenzel (d)

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 845
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2009, 12:32:32 PM »
To augment what Dan McEntee said, "The amateur practices until he can do it right; the Pro practices until he can't do it wrong!"

(Too many irons; not enough fire)

Ralph Wenzel
AMA 495785 League City, TX

Offline Jim Pollock

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 948
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2009, 01:45:49 PM »
Dennis,

What it is.  Perfect practice makes perfect!  How do you get perfect practice.  You get Ted, Brett or Paul to critique you flights before the Nats or WC's whichever the case may be.  Also, you build an airplane adept at making all maneuvers look great no matter what the weather conditions are. Then, WHOP there it is!

Jim Pollock   H^^

Offline Will Hinton

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2804
    • www.authorwillhinton.com
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2009, 02:29:22 PM »
There's an awful lot in what Brad said above - a lot of guys practice together but there's usually one who stands out more often than not.  The others are getting the same coaching, have great equipment (a major factor) but just do not have the same level of natural talent.
all of the other things said are also accurate as far as good flying or anything else goes, but not all men are created equal in ALL things.  It's distributed in a different place for some of us.  (I ain't one of the chosen few with stunt prowess, I gotta burn fuel!)
All that said, the wonderful thing about stunt is the way the Davids and Pauls and Teds and all the others are willing to help any and every other flyer to get better.  And without the condecending attitude of certain other competitions!  I love it.  Thanks to all stunt flyers just for being great people!
Will
John 5:24   www.fcmodelers.com

Online Matt Colan

  • N-756355
  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3528
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2009, 04:19:52 PM »
Practice, determination, willingness to reach the top, the desire, a  good coach, and practice, practice, practice.  I'd love to make it to the top in the future, you never know AP^
Matt Colan

Offline Randy Powell

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10476
  • TreeTop Flyer
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2009, 08:17:31 PM »
Certainly it takes talent. Back when I competed in track on a fairly high level, you could see guys that were very, very good and didn't practice much. We had a guy on our team that was more interested in talking some girl into sharing the jump pits under the tarp than using it for practicing the event. And he had a boat load of talent. That took him quite a ways. But had he practiced with some level of desire and concentration, he would have easily been the NCAA high jump champ. As it was, he never beat me. He should have. Only guy I've ever seen that could run full blast down a basketball court, jump from the bottom of the key and dunk the ball as he was coming down (being 6'7", 250lbs with giant hands didn't hurt either). The guy was a monster, but a perpetual 2nd or 3rd place (or lower) guy in major meets.
Member in good standing of P.I.S.T
(Politically Incorrect Stunt Team)
AMA 67711
 Randy Powell

Offline Will Hinton

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2804
    • www.authorwillhinton.com
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2009, 02:38:38 PM »
Randy makes a perfect point - ain't nuthin' free.
John 5:24   www.fcmodelers.com

Offline Kim Mortimore

  • 2013 Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 621
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2009, 08:01:14 PM »
Along with all else mentioned already:

1.  The ability to take that amazing, flawless beauty they have invested many months and countless hours building, aim it at the ground flying 50+ mph and pull out at the exact split second to put her at 5 feet off the concrete, even in high wind, a thousand times in succession, without ever once overshooting the mark by 5 feet or more.

2.  The ability utterly, completely, and absolutely to block out of their minds the fact that item #1 is required, along with any and all other such messy human thoughts that occur to some of us lesser mortals.  Automatons R' Us (or Them, I should say).   LL~ VD~ S?P  
« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 08:31:36 PM by Kim Mortimore »
Kim Mortimore
Santa Clara, CA

Offline Doug Moon

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2310
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2009, 10:54:40 PM »
I have been thinking on this one for a while.  There is one thing that all the top guys have in common, dedication.  The rest is a journey and it is a little different for each of them.

I promise I am not trying to be a braggart, or self promoting.  But I do feel I have a good pattern and I would like to add into this discussion if that is ok with you guys.  Warning, this is long.  I tend to ramble on at times and this is one of those times.

My journey to gaining a top level pattern began 1994.  I attended my first nats in Lubbock Tx only having just learned the beginner pattern a few weeks prior.  Mike Scott and Phil Nickels were my judges during that competition.  I crashed in the 1st round.  I was so mad I was ready to bail.  Steve calmed me down and repaired the severely damaged profile Mustang and I managed a 5th place finish which landed me a Custom Models Buccaneer 740.  I was flying often in those days but no track of flights or anything just trying to learn to fly and having a blast doing so.  I crashed many models during that time.  It was a common theme for me.  Taught me early on not to get to attached to a plane.

That fall I built a sig twister and finished the pattern with it.  I also built the 740 and with an Randy Smith FP 40 installed started burning fuel by the case.  It was then I became hooked.  This was the 95 season.  Bob G was a regular at our field and he give a me a tip or two here and there once he saw I was really interested in getting better and not just goofing around.   He was still a Big Bear in those days and during his practice sessions he was not the most approachable guy.  But I managed to become friends with him pretty quickly once I stated showing up night after night.  I was single then.

By the way we are still great friends today.  

I remember once I asked him what I should work on.  I really had no idea where to start at that point.  I was able to get through the pattern consistently but I had no idea what to do.  He said "Fly 5' bottoms and we will go from there."  He really just said it on passing.  I was like "I will show him 5'!"  The very next flight on the vertical 8" I hear clapping.  He had moved upwind and he was clapping because I actually got 5' on the bottom.  I of course thought it was going in but it didnt.  Then he took to really helping me learn the winds, tune the motor, trim the plane.  He was very general in his advice but enough to make changes that would let me learn along the way but not overwhelm me with info.

That year went on and I learned the pattern pretty good.  I flew about 300 flights in 95 with one win in INT and several 2nds.

In 96 it was on.  I loaded up with JBK fuel at the beginning of the season, March, and never looked back.  I had finished a Buccaneer 746 and installed an OPS 40 running an 11.25 4.25 bolly.  It was awesome.  Flew rock solid at 5.60 laps.  I lived at the field that year.  I was there 3 nights a week and at least once on the weekends.  Sometimes Steve and I would get there about 7 pm and wait all evening for the winds to die off and "get one in" at dusk.   My new girlfriend thought we were nuts.  She later became my wife.  I moved up to advanced to start the 96 season and won every advanced contest I entered except for the nats.  I placed 6th there, that was my first entry into the official nats events and the first year in Muncie.  I put in around 350-400 flights that year.

A typical season here can go from March to October.  With a break from March 20-May 15 for high winds.  Last few years the high winds last well into June.  Weird how they are changing.

From 97-2000 I flew consistently around 400-500 flights per year. I had also moved to expert locally in 1997.  I got my first expert win in 1999 at a contest not heavily entered as it was right before the nats that year.  Still it was a win.  I didnt get another for quite some time after that.  In those days Frank McMillan, Bob G, and Frank Williams could rain on your little stunt parade any ole time they pleased.  I was routinely getting my rear end handed to me.  I wasnt even thinking about beating those guys at that time.  It was Mike Scott I was after.  A local flyer who was always just a few points ahead.  He was a season ahead of me getting into expert and was pretty solid in dist 8.  Not only that he is a great friend and we flew together for years before he moved out of town.  He helped me alot along the way as well with coaching.      

All during this time I was getting coaching in all aspects of Stunt.  Motor run, building, and flying.  My real gains in building came in 1998-2000.  During this time I really learned to build light and straight.  Steve and Bob were helping all along the way.  I really had no modeling background as a kid so I needed direction and they were happy to give it.  From time to time I would hear the word IDIOT from Steve when I would do something really stupid like glue the wing in crooked on my Intrepid while watching a hockey game... LL~

Brad Walker moved to town in 2000.  He brought a new set of eyeballs to my pattern and helped me see a few things that needed work.  He calls them tendencies.  Things I do every time.  He helped me solve a few big problems.

2001 Saw me really go nuts to try to win the Advanced trophy at the nats.  I had made 5 attempts at it and had come up short a few times.  This season I had a very reliable plane that was 2 years old and still looking good.  I really figured out the PA engine as well.  I put in about 175 flights from March until the nats that year and came up short.  I was awarded 2nd place behind Dale Barry.  I think it was less than 3 points.  Total flights that year was around 400.

2002 and it cracked wide open.  At this point when I would land I could tell the coach about 99% of the mistakes before he said a word.  I could see them all just as the coach was seeing them.  I had finished a plane in February that year and had it out early.  In one flying session I knew it wouldnt work.  I think Turd Beater was the word used for that model.  Within a few flying sessions with the beater I got started on a new design.  It was the Geo Bear I am Flying today.  I had to literally BEG Bob to turn it over to me.  He came over to the house and let me measure the plane and he gave me tons of little pointers.  There are no plans.  I got started in late Feb early March and had it out for the 1st flight on May 19th.  From that day until the nats I flew it 249 times.  It started life with a Jett.  Then I got a PA 65 on loan from Brad Walker.  It was setup to run 15% nitro much the same way BB sets up his motors.  WOW!  What horse that thing was and still is.  I had been on the 4 blade for 2 seasons prior with good results but this was bliss.  That plane was so much more capable than anything I had ever flown up to that point.  It made flying and seeing proper shapes and sizes simple.  Mistakes were all mine now.  There was no blaming the rig anymore.  I really dont think I can out fly that model.  It is capable of anything I want it to do.  After about 2 weeks on that rig it was very apparent to some close friends that I had a good combo and a skill level that would fair well in OPEN.  Brad and Steve were really pushing for me to go to OPEN.  Bob and Mike were saying stay in ADV and knock em out with this monster.  If you dont get it this year then move on.  I decided to move on to OPEN for two reasons.  One, Open was always my goal anyway.  Two, I read or heard somewhere if you place in the top 5 three times in ADV it is time to move on.  I had a 6, 4, 4, and 2.  I also had some other not so great finishes in there as well.  It was time to move on.

I flew in 02 in OPEN to a Top 5 spot finishing 5th.  It was awesome.

I went on to put in about 550 flights that year.  I was really getting good in the district at that point as well.  I was still traveling and entering all the contests I could get in.  I feel that is a HUGE factor in getting good as well.  Getting in front of judges as often as possible.  Putting the routine to the test over and over.  

In 03 I was right back on track.  I had 175 flights prior to the nats.  I was flying really well, made top 20, but had to leave early due to a death in the family.  I got home from the nats on a Thursday, served at the funeral on Friday.  Then the VERY next Monday I was laid off of work with my wife 3 months pregnant. Life changed radically for me all in that one week.  

2 months later she also lost her job.  

Since then I have had 3 kids, four jobs, 3 mortgages.   <= <= <=  My head is spinning!

BUT before that huge change that put CLPA on the back burner on a warm setting I was living and breathing this stuff.  I would wake up in the middle of the night and start thinking about Hourglasses and so on.  Hours on the phone with Brad about stunt stuff and always running by Steve's to check out how his plane was coming along.  Tips over to Mike's to see his plane.  Trips over to Bob's house to see his plane in bare bones to learn more ways to build light.  I was able to take enough time during those formative years to get a really solid understanding of the pattern, learn how to build, gain the ability to SEE my mistakes as my coach will see them, be able to take criticism for what it is and not a personal attack, setup a motor and so on all in a few very short years.  Flying day after day after day helped to solidify it all.  Day after day practice is a huge factor as well during the time I was learning to fly a top level pattern.  

Now that I have the pattern all is needed is a few warm ups and it is off to the races.  I do use a coach to make sure I am seeing what is wrong and not missing anything.  This year I did not fly one pattern 2 weeks prior to the nats.  I was out helping Steve quite a bit but I had my rig ready.  I just had to get there, warm up, and go.  Now, I can average 50-100 flights in a season if I am lucky.  As the kids get older it is sometimes easier to get out and sometimes not.  

But the one thing that makes a top flier is the willingness and determination along with commitment.  

Oh and one other thing, it was a hell of alot of fun along the way.

I do have to say this past nats was probably on the top of the list as far as fun goes.  It was relaxing and in perspective with where my life is now.  I got nervous for about 2 minutes DURING my 2nd flight on Top 5 day.  It really ruined the flight.  The rest of the time I was comfortable and relaxed.   A little anxious sure but not like in years past where I would be up tight a whole day before the thing started and not let up until it was over.  This one was very fun!!  Big thanks to all those who made it work and made it possible for me to go, My wife, Parents (took the kids part of the time), Steve (booked hotel, took his car, got us there every day), in-laws (helped out while I was away).  Thanks again.  Thanks to the nats personnel from ED all the way down the list!!  You all know who you are and you are all very appreciated.  Thanks to the competitors for getting there and competing hard and making it fun!

I am sorry I rambled on so.  

 
Doug Moon
AMA 496454
Dougmoon12@yahoo.com

Online Matt Colan

  • N-756355
  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3528
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2009, 07:34:39 AM »
I am sorry I rambled on so.  

That's OK Doug, I actually enjoyed the story.  I put in maybe 150-200 flights a year.  I do know at Brodak I put in 15 flights with my Ares not counting official flights (add 4 more for officials).  We fly, assuming the weather is good, about 3 flying sessions a week for 4-6 flights per session.  Since Brodak I've only had one flying session, since the weather has been rain, rain, rain.  Also we're building a deck in my backyard, so that is going to cut into our flying time.

John Dottavio was telling me and Rich Giacobone, that Gene Schaffer in the morning would line up 5 gallons of fuel.  Start flying at 8:00am and take a 30 minute break for lunch, the fly on to 5:00 at night.  I was amazed he could do that.  For me after 5 flights, I'm tired and I'm sweating.

One thing that Grandpa and I do, is judge each other.  We've been doing that since the beginning of last year.  I can definitely see my improvement over the years through video and looking at past score sheets.  In May of last year, I didn't even get above a 375.  In September last year, I was up in the 470s, and this was with pattern points.  The last time I flew, I judged Grandpa at a 416, because he was flying an overweight plane in a warm day.  He judged me at a 453 on the last flight of the day.  Actually, he pointed out to me more errors by actually judging me rather than just looking at my flight.

I remember when I got booted up to intermediate at a contest in 2007, Tom Hampshire told everybody to look over their shoulder, and watch out for me in the future.  I still think about that, when I'm flying.


Matt Colan

Offline Charlie Pate

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 260
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2009, 09:10:12 AM »
 The same thing that makes a GOOD guitar player! or race driver.
 S?P

Offline Mike Palko

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 627
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2009, 11:36:59 AM »
Great story Doug, and you weren't bragging at all!

   What's behind getting to the top is rarely talked about. I don't know that I have ever heard someones journey start to present day like yours. I am always interested to hear opinions on what it takes. For example, people who say they don't fly much. For me flying 150 flights a year would be a lot! Others fly two and three times that and consider it an average year. If I fly one session a week in the summer I am doing good. Last year was my best effort and I topped out just a little over 100 flights on my Mustang (about 60 total flights on the airplane before the Nat's, it was brand new last year). This year I am still at less than 20 flights on my Mustang, about 10 flights before I showed up at Brodak's and 2 practice flights at the Flyin. I fly a lot more than that, but our home field doesn't allow for any kind of worth while practice (wind and turbulence). Most of the club sport flys the majority of the time.

   It's no wonder there are only 6-8 guys (maybe less?) any given year fighting for the top spot. There are so many variables and so many levels of variables, that missing just one will make your effort fall short. I am still missing many of the key ingredients. I don't know if I will ever have what it takes to go that far, but it would be fun to try just once, time will tell.

Congrats again H^^

Mike

Offline Allan Perret

  • 2017
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1892
  • Proverbs
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2009, 12:10:24 PM »
Hey Doug:
Really enjoyed your ramble, thanks for sharing.
Congrats on your Nats top 5.
Allan Perret
AMA 302406
Slidell, Louisiana

Offline James C. Johnson

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 198
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2009, 12:18:56 PM »


Great story Doug.. it should be required reading for everyone wanting to compete... and everyone wanting inspiration to compete.. you stoked me !!!

Jim

Offline Randy Powell

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10476
  • TreeTop Flyer
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2009, 12:34:10 PM »
That was great, Doug.

Interestingly, according to Univ. Of Minnesota research, to develop any complex skill takes, on average depending on native ability and conditions, about 10,000 repetitions. If you talk to NBA players they will tell you that it takes more than 10,000 practice shots with a coach before it can be flawless. Keep in mind that all that practice done without the plane counts (middle of the night thinking about the Hourglass).

One of the things you see with top fliers like Paul or Dave is that they put their time in, much like Doug has. Paul used to go out most every day in the Boeing parking lot and put up 5-8 flights at lunch. Every day, rain , shine or wind burning hundreds of gallons of fuel. He doesn't do that now, but he doesn't have to. The skills are locked in by all that practice. Much as Doug describes, it only take a few warm ups and, as long at the trim on the plane is working, he's ready to go.

I'm probably half way through that process. When I have a plane that's working, I can really get some serious practice in. It's one of the reasons I'm building what I am building right now. I'm tired of dinking with planes that need too much attention.
Member in good standing of P.I.S.T
(Politically Incorrect Stunt Team)
AMA 67711
 Randy Powell

Offline Pinecone

  • AMA Member and supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 235
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2009, 01:12:23 PM »
Without reading all the responses so far, in most forms of competition it is 90% the person and 10% the equipment.  And the top guys spend a lot of time. effort, and money on both themselves and their equipment.  The lower guys spend a lot of time, effort, and money on their equipment thinking that it will make them better.

Goes back to some the first responses I read that said, Practice, Practice, Practice.  And that with good caoching is working the person.

And while I don't compete in PA, I have/do formally compete in pistol shooting, sporting clays shotgun shooting, sailboat racing, autocross, and road racing.  And this holds true across the board.
Terry Carraway
AMA 47402

Offline john e. holliday

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 22979
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2009, 09:37:30 AM »
Doug, that story of yours should inspire some of the people in any form of modeling.  Also it is not bragging when you can back up what you say.

Years ago when I flew navy carrier I put in lots of flights and got consistant at making 100 point landings.  Was average on high and low speed.  Still don't like hanging them.  But, as I have told Jim Lee and a few others, "You don't want me to get serious about stunt".   I guess I could say I would be unbearable to be around.  Ask my son about it sometime if you ever meet him.

Congrats on your third place.  We need someone to knock David off his pedistal.   Having fun, DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Ted Fancher

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2345
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2009, 02:12:46 PM »
Doug,

Congrats on your third place.  We need someone to knock David off his pedistal.   Having fun, DOC Holliday

Well, shoot, Doc.  Give David a break.  He just barely knocked Orestes off of his pedestal!  n1 n1 n1

Of course, David probably has about twice as many total National Championships as any other flier (Jr./Sr./Open combined) in history so maybe it is time to kick the pegs out from under him.  You guys have at him.  I wore myself out trying HB~> HB~> HB~> HB~>

It's a tough crowd.

Ted

Offline Tom Niebuhr

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2767
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2009, 03:18:03 PM »
I have seen Doug practice very seriously over the years. He has an airplane that fits him like a glove and has put in years of hard work.

Hard work, dedication, good coaching along with good and dedicated people to fly with are really the keys to the original question as to how do the top fliers get there.

Congatulations again to Doug who is not only a great flier, but also a great person.
AMA 7544

Offline Paul Smith

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6127
Re: The Top Stunt Fliers: any thoughts about what makes them the Top?
« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2009, 03:54:52 PM »
Ideally, the designer, builder, engine mechanic, and pilot at all the same person.

Of these skills, that of engine mechanic needs to get a lot more of the credit for the win.

I do not believe that any pilot is good enough to win without a decent airplane and a great engine run.
Paul Smith


Advertise Here
Tags: