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Author Topic: The T-Rex is here  (Read 28039 times)

Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #50 on: October 06, 2009, 10:44:40 PM »
>The Wright brothers were bicycle mechanics.

True, but they were much more, and having decided to tackle the problem of flight, they made themselves into scientists and engineers second to none in their own time.

Before commenting further on this, I'll say that in my opinion, Brad's T-Rex is probably a very good - perhaps top echelon - stunt ship. He has the experience, awareness of previous technology in the field, and the wit to use it in producing top level performers. He has shown cleverness in other designs. No doubt, his designs fit well within the parameters of what has worked for others and what has worked for himself. Certainly, one need not have won titles to produce superior stunt ships. It has been done too many times before, and all one has to do is look for the examples.

Edit: Just re-reading my post, it seems as though I may have slighted Brad's originality. Just to clarify my own opinion - "from afar": Brad's designs have shown original thinking too, and he has flown successfully with his earlier designs. While he and I don't always agree, he certainly has posted enough personal design opinions on this and other forums to claim originality. I'd certainly expect his plane to fly quite well - as claimed. I think he's "paid his dues".

Still, I do have a problem with this recurrent theme about the Wrights. Yup, in addition to scholars, writers, printers, publishers, and other things, they were indeed bicycle mechanics. But Insisting that the Wrights were just good mechanics, “proving,” as one host maintains, that engineering was neither needed nor employed in achieving sustained, controlled flight does not just miss the mark, but is simply and utterly untrue. Anyone who has read the excellent biographies available and especially the Wright’s notebooks knows that they were self-made engineers and scientists of the first rank, who used mathematics to analyze, predict, and proportion their “flyer.” They literally invented the first aircraft propellers, configuring and sizing them and an engine of their own design to produce precisely the thrust they computed to be necessary for a machine with drag and wing loadings computed from their own experimentally determined “pressure tables” and airfoil data. Designed with clever use of their high-school trigonometry, their propellers boasted modern efficiencies. Their celebrated invention of 3-axis control was a major and key factor, but only one of many things that they methodically developed in as great an example of scientific method and discipline as has ever been demonstrated. Anyway, the Wrights’ notebooks (as pictured below) are among the worthwhile things posted in their entirety on the internet and easily accessible via Google. The best source is the Library of Congress site, http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/wrighthtml/wrightSeries1.html, where you’ll find their entire papers and photos. Look them up and be pleasantly impressed with some of the best works in aviation.

So let's cease mis-characterizing the Wrights, without at least understanding what they actually did. It's publically accesible.

It probably wouldn't hurt - IMHO - to stop talking negatively about each other too.

SK
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 11:19:02 PM by Serge_Krauss »

Offline Ted Fancher

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #51 on: October 06, 2009, 11:23:09 PM »


So let's cease mis-characterizing the Wrights, without at least understanding what they actually did. It's publically accesible.


SK
[/quote]

Well put, Serge.

Offline Greg Howie

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #52 on: October 07, 2009, 12:25:02 AM »
Charles Taylor is an unsung hero whose achievements and importance have been all but overlooked. Although just about every child knows about Orville and Wilbur Wright, most have never heard of Charles Edward Taylor.

 The first Aircraft mechanic .Charlie Taylor was a silent but essential participant in the Wright Brothers' success story at Kitty Hawk. In six weeks he built the 12-horsepower engine that powered the first successful flying machine, the Wright Flyer.

Taylor, who was a skilled machinist, was hired by the Wrights to run the bicycle shop at the Wright Cycle Company in Dayton, Ohio. After failing to find an adequate manufacturer for the engine for their "Flyer" the Wrights called on Taylor to assist in designing and building the first aircraft engine.

On the morning of December 17, 1903, at the base of Kill Devil Hills, south of the village of Kitty Hawk, North Carolina, the Wright Brothers made aviation history by successfully flying the first powered airplane. This achievement would not have been possible if it were not for Charles Edward Taylor, the man responsible for assisting in the design, development, and production for the first aircraft powerplant.

Taylor's pioneering career in aviation mechanics spanned more than sixty years. After the first successful flights in 1903, he continued to work with the Wrights in the engine design effort and later built the aircraft engines. He traveled with Orville to Fort Meyer, Virginia, in 1908 during test flights for the United States government and was with Wilbur at the 1909 Hudson-Fulton flights in New York. Taylor later served as Calbraith Rodgers' chief mechanic during his first transcontinental flight in 1911.
Oh ....I see ,you mean the ones on a string ?

Greg Howie

Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #53 on: October 07, 2009, 07:20:34 AM »
Thanks, Brad.  Your agreement will give Dave the self-confidence he needs.

Howard, you seem to have all the confidence you need these days to make backhanded slaps.  I appreciate that.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
-George Bernard Shaw

Alan Hahn

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #54 on: October 07, 2009, 07:22:51 AM »
I think the point about the Wrights is that you don't have to be a High Energy Physicist to be smart.

However the corollary is that it is possible to be dumb and be in any job!

Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #55 on: October 07, 2009, 07:27:12 AM »
Remind me to never mention the Wright brothers again...  I should have stuck with the Big Bertha guy.

Here are the drawings for my fully suspended bellcrank mount for the two piece wing ARF. These pictures had to be created and sent to the factory to clarify the design, so I made 3D solild models of the entire system and outlined them in Powerpoint.

Mounting bellcranks has been an ongoing problems in the CL ARF market, and I believe I solved it here with my original design.  Of all the things within the T-Rex design this is the thing of which I am the most proud.  It took a LOT of work to get this mounting system made right...  a lot of work....  but at least now I can say that the USER gets to install the bellcrank with his own glue and the bellcrank is attached to the fuselage sides as God intended.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
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Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #56 on: October 07, 2009, 07:59:56 AM »
Here is the PDF with dimensions.  It is not full scale as the file would be too large.

Keep in mind the T-Rex was expressly designed to be an ARF/ARC.  It is not simply someone's old contest ship that we sent a set of plans over to have made .

It was designed from the ground up for modern mass production, like most of the modern RC ARF/ARCs.  If any one of you guys would attend the large model trade shows, you would see what I mean.  There is whole world of modeling going on out there beyond lawn darts and dope.

A little bird just told me that one of my good friends has just completed his T-Rex ARF.  It is 62.5 oz ready to fly with a PA 61 and pipe.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
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Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #57 on: October 07, 2009, 08:28:33 AM »
<snip>
A little bird just told me that one of my good friends has just completed his T-Rex ARF.  It is 62.5 oz ready to fly with a PA 61 and pipe.

Yep and I'll probably be the one that launches for him. If I'm a good boy he may even let me fly it  ;D

Offline BYU

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #58 on: October 07, 2009, 08:56:58 AM »
"lets trash something we have not seen and know nothing about" from the get go.  

Show me the post where I have trashed Brads design?

I asked a simple question
“I have never before heard of the T Rex. Has it or its designer ever won a major contest?”

I just asked a simple question and asking if a plane has history when you don’t know anything about it seems like common sense to me.

The T Rex is unproven and untested by anyone apart from Brad and Steve Moon as far as I can tell (no one in the post says otherwise), I had no point, just a question and the question was answered.

I am not nor ever have claimed to be, a designer of stunt planes. I have penned a few plans for others during my semi retirement. I am at beginner level and slowly learning the pattern, I am not in the business of field testing or learning with planes that have not been proven, rung out and made ready for someone of my level.

Brad has made a few points that seem questionable to me, but here I believe we are allowed to disagree.
Golfers do not design or use their own equipment in the main, but in stunt we do, if you look at the world class ships (i.e. world champions) the majority of the flyers have also been the designers.




Offline Ted Fancher

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #59 on: October 07, 2009, 10:41:11 AM »
Remind me to never mention the Wright brothers again...  I should have stuck with the Big Bertha guy.

Here are the drawings for my fully suspended bellcrank mount for the two piece wing ARF. These pictures had to be created and sent to the factory to clarify the design, so I made 3D solild models of the entire system and outlined them in Powerpoint.

Mounting bellcranks has been an ongoing problems in the CL ARF market, and I believe I solved it here with my original design.  Of all the things within the T-Rex design this is the thing of which I am the most proud.  It took a LOT of work to get this mounting system made right...  a lot of work....  but at least now I can say that the USER gets to install the bellcrank with his own glue and the bellcrank is attached to the fuselage sides as God intended.


Very clever engineering, Brad.  At first I was wondering about the split ply plates (L & R) but then saw the pictures with the overlapping doubler.  Good thinking.  I'm assuming that after joining the two halves the owner is advised to glass cloth the joint, correct?

One thing that struck me was the location of the bellcrank well aft of the high point of the wing and aft of the spars.  Is this the actual location? What was your thinking re mounting it that far back.

Thanks,

Ted

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #60 on: October 07, 2009, 10:53:29 AM »
Glass cloth is included in both the ARF and ARC for the wing joint. Not in the shop and can't look to see where the bellcrank is so will let Brad answer that one.

Offline Ted Fancher

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #61 on: October 07, 2009, 11:37:37 AM »
Glass cloth is included in both the ARF and ARC for the wing joint. Not in the shop and can't look to see where the bellcrank is so will let Brad answer that one.

I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to include packets of Part A and B slow set epoxies given the possibility of an ARF/ARC being purchased by someone without a "shop" and its usual supplies?  While a properly glass clothed butt joint is probably adequate, a poor joint or one made with inappropriate materials could be a recipe for a short existence.

Just a thought.

Ted

Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #62 on: October 07, 2009, 12:09:26 PM »
Brad,
Nice work. The model's styling looks nice and seems well designed, as usual. I hope they sell out because it looks like the best designed ARF/ARC available. Doug made all of the germane points in his post, and well.

I know that it's a small point, but the bellcrank suspension (we used all-thread) and the ply overlaps on the wing joint (used 1/64th) are just about exactly the same as when Whitely showed me how to do my first foam wing in '82. I don't know how original it is, but it's a good system and should work just fine.

Ted mentions the high point of the airfoil for Stunt's normally preferred bellcrank location. Ted, is that just for strength? I shouldn't think it'd matter location wise for geometry, but I don't know too much.

Chris...

Offline Larry Cunningham

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #63 on: October 07, 2009, 12:50:05 PM »
Remind me to never mention the Wright brothers again...  I should have stuck with the Big Bertha guy.

Here are the drawings for my fully suspended bellcrank mount for the two piece wing ARF. These pictures had to be created and sent to the factory to clarify the design, so I made 3D solild models of the entire system and outlined them in Powerpoint.

Mounting bellcranks has been an ongoing problems in the CL ARF market, and I believe I solved it here with my original design.  Of all the things within the T-Rex design this is the thing of which I am the most proud.  It took a LOT of work to get this mounting system made right...  a lot of work....  but at least now I can say that the USER gets to install the bellcrank with his own glue and the bellcrank is attached to the fuselage sides as God intended.



Very nicely done. I need to send you my balsa.bmp for your wood textures..

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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #64 on: October 07, 2009, 01:51:09 PM »
Larry,
any chance you would share that balsa bmp with another CAD guy maybe?
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Offline Larry Cunningham

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #65 on: October 07, 2009, 02:51:55 PM »
Absolutely. It was shared with me! Just email me at larry@cunningham-designs.com and I'll send it.

L.

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Offline Doug Moon

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #66 on: October 07, 2009, 09:31:26 PM »

One thing that struck me was the location of the bellcrank well aft of the high point of the wing and aft of the spars.  Is this the actual location? What was your thinking re mounting it that far back.

Thanks,

Ted


Hello Ted,

I have a Geo Bolt wing out in the shop and it is currently resting in a very damaged Furias and I checled the BC location on that one.  I Mount it right behind the spar.  The spar on that wing goes straight across and does not follow the high point like most designs.  This puts the BC mount about 1.5'-2" behind the highpoint.  Incidentally it puts the LOs right inline with their exit at the line slider.

BC position doesnt matter at all except for drag on the line slider.

I am curious what you thinking is here on the design?

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Offline Ted Fancher

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #67 on: October 08, 2009, 08:08:37 AM »
Hello Ted,



BC position doesnt matter at all except for drag on the line slider.

I am curious what you thinking is here on the design?



Hi Doug,

I've altered the quote above to show how you've more or less answered your own question.  The only reason, IMHO to put the bellcrank in any specific location is to eliminate to the greatest degree possible any compromise to totally fluid controls. In my "designs" (I'm with the people that say most designs are simply refinements of fundamental numbers that will produce a competent stunt ship--the T-Rex certainly included) I go to some lengths to locate the bellcrank pivot as close to the intended CG as I possibly can and I do this for only one reason, to minimize any compromise to the control system operation.  After all, we wouldn't purposely design a bulkhead that causes friction on the pushrod--I think it is essential that we not design in friction in the leadouts either.

One of the problems of the often repeated discussions regarding CG location and where you locate the bellcrank fore and aft is that people often use the phrase "because the CG is always going to line up with the leadout guide it doesn't make any difference where you locate the bellcrank."  With respect to how "physics" will cause the airplane to hang on the end of the lines (in the yaw axis) that statement is true.  What isn't true about that sentence is that where you locate the bellcrank will make a practical and real difference in the function of the control system.  Any time you force any part of the control system to rub against or bend around a fixed object you compromise that totally uniform and free control system you worked so hard to build into the ship.  If you mount the Bellcrank anywhere except at the location of the CG the leadouts "have to" bend around and rub against the leadout guides and the further fore and aft it is mounted the more they will have to do so.  This is bad not only in terms of compromising the control fluidity but also in engineering terms because such friction can and will, over time, compromise the integrity of one or the other of the rubbing surfaces--the leadout or the guide.  FWIW, if I chose to use an aft mounted bellcrank I'd be tempted to use flexible, smooth synthetic tubing of some sort and inch or more long as an exit guide--not something hard and potentially sharp like brass tubing.

Bottom line, it ain't as bad as your pushrod rubbing against a bulkhead or glue in the hinges--but, if you want to beat the Thunder Gazer it's something you can do without.  Designing such a compromise into your equipment is something I would personally avoid.

It's all one of those "details, details, details" I talked at length about 15 or 20 years ago in my design and trim articles.

You'll find the biggest difference between a Walker Cup winning T-Rex and an also ran Thunder Gazer in those details, not in any esoteric or magic design innovation (and that most certainly includes the deeply flawed concept of stunt nirvana lying in the bowels of a good Canard!  Ever get to watch a  Burt Rutan Varieze pretend to do "aerobatics"?  There's a good reason the big buck full scale aerobatic pilots steer clear of the canard idea).  The competition is so keen (as you well know) at the upper levels of stunt around the world that the tiny differences on the scoreboard are largely the result of one flier getting more of the details right than what stunt ship he/she chose to apply them to.

Good luck to Brad's T-Rex.  While I don't necessarily think the Impact, Thunder Gazer, Stiletto, T-Bird, Trivial Pursuit, Sea Fury, Genisis, etc are necessarily "retarded", there is also nothing magic about them--or the T-Rex.  Get the details right and you'll win with any of them.  George pretty much got it right almost 60 years ago.  All we've done since then is trim the Christmas tree.

Ted Fancher

Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #68 on: October 08, 2009, 09:07:04 AM »
Very clever engineering, Brad.  At first I was wondering about the split ply plates (L & R) but then saw the pictures with the overlapping doubler.  Good thinking.  I'm assuming that after joining the two halves the owner is advised to glass cloth the joint, correct?

One thing that struck me was the location of the bellcrank well aft of the high point of the wing and aft of the spars.  Is this the actual location? What was your thinking re mounting it that far back.

Thanks,

Ted


Good eye.  Yes, the glass cloth for the wing joint is included in the kit.  Typical like any foam wing.

the reason the bellcrank is aft is to keep the leadouts from rubbing on the gear wire or any other obstructions in the wing.  It has a straights shot to the leadouts with nothing in the way. That is the only reason it is aft.  Now, the leadouts are free to move in any position the user wishes.

The first proto rubbed the gear wire...  so I fixed it.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
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Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #69 on: October 08, 2009, 09:14:06 AM »
I know that it's a small point, but the bellcrank suspension (we used all-thread) and the ply overlaps on the wing joint (used 1/64th) are just about exactly the same as when Whitely showed me how to do my first foam wing in '82. I don't know how original it is, but it's a good system and should work just fine.

Yes, obviously the typical foam wing suspended bellcrank is NOT original.

Coming up with a way to re-create such a thing in an ARF with a two piece wing is altogether another story.  Especially if the goals were:

-make sure the the bellcrank was completely installed in the inboard wing and ready to go

-AND the USER does the final gluing of the mount.

I want the USER to glue in his own bellcrank.  So, I came up with this stack ply/ply washer system that simulates the old foam wing suspension.  No easy task actually.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
-George Bernard Shaw

Offline Larry Cunningham

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #70 on: October 08, 2009, 09:50:15 AM »
The bellcrank position does affect the control transfer function, in the following way. A shorter
bellcrank to flap control rod has more distortion in its 3D geometry as it operates.

Good reasons for locating the bellcrank somewhere near its traditional location:

1) placement for leadout wires,
2) convenient tie in to top/bottom spars for traditional C and D tube wings,
3) more physical room in the thickest portion of the wing.

Linearity is improved by using a canted bellcrank, typically tilted forward
by approximately 7 degrees, with neutral offset control horns, corrected for all
three drive points.

Physical space accommodates the tilted bellcrank option easily.

L.

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Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #71 on: October 08, 2009, 10:00:06 AM »
Good luck to Brad's T-Rex.  While I don't necessarily think the Impact, Thunder Gazer, Stiletto, T-Bird, Trivial Pursuit, Sea Fury, Genisis, etc are necessarily "retarded" 

Are you really implying that is what I said?
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Offline Ted Fancher

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #72 on: October 08, 2009, 10:30:43 AM »
Are you really implying that is what I said?



"This idea that the the best designs would come from winners is retarded."

Well Brad, let me put it as simply as possible. 

I don't think the word "retarded" has any business in a discussion regarding the efforts of others who share a common passion.  Or for those who might believe that success in the "marketplace of competition" is a valid consideration when making decisions about proceeding in any effort.  I think your decision to use the word "retarded" was purposeful and intended to get exactly the kind of response you got.  My comment was as about as benign a response as your bold font (see cut and pasted from your post above) statement deserved. 

I hesitate to think what your fellow modelers with learning challenged children or relatives thought of it. 

I might note, as well, that you chose to ignore the positive things I said in the body of my message about the T-Rex project and chose instead to make a "deal" about a toss off line that poked fun at your remarkably obtuse choice of words.

Other than the old proverb about reaping what one sows,  I haven't much more to say on the subject. You can either accept it as a tongue in cheek attempt at constructive criticism or you can choose to allow it to fester without understanding that your indigestion is self induced.

Good luck with the T-Rex.

Ted

Offline SteveMoon

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #73 on: October 08, 2009, 11:19:55 AM »
Holy Crap!! This is unbelievable. What Brad has done here is incredibly difficult and
time consuming. And, NO, it is not for everyone. If it's not for you, then just don't
buy one. It is not really necessary for anybody to be trashing Brad, the T-Rex, other
designers or producers of stunt products or anybody else for that matter. Jeeeeez!
I've read this entire thread, and some of the comments here really do come across
as backhanded slaps. As someone who has run a small (very small) business in this
tiny market I know how difficult it can be to do what Brad is doing.

While Brad, myself, Randy, Brodak, or anybody else who runs a business or designs
products for this hobby/sport can simply choose to ignore unwarranted and nasty
criticisms it still has an effect. Of course, good constructive criticism is always a
necessity. But, nasty attacks are so energy draining. They can suck the life out of
you and have you wondering just why is it I'm doing this.

I think Brad should be applauded for his efforts. Brad and I attended the Toledo RC
show in 2008 and it was a real eye-opening experience. It was a great way to see
how others attack many of the same design questions we have to deal with. Wing
lift, construction methods, construction materials, weight, powerplant, etc, etc.
It was a great day, and we were just about the last to leave the building. They were
shutting the lights off as we headed for the exits. Brad has taken some of what we
learned there (and other stuff he's learned along the way) and applied it to the T-Rex.
I really don't see the problem with that. For those out there who only care whether
it has won a contest or not; just wait until somebody wins a contest with it then you'll
know. If you don't like the design or construction methods, don't buy one. But, you
don't have to tell the world you don't like it and you're not buying it. The world
probably doesn't care.

Now, comes the question: should I actually post this? Well, since I am not very good
at holding my tongue I will.

Later, Steve

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #74 on: October 08, 2009, 12:02:14 PM »
Jim Welch came by this morning like a proud papa showing off his new T-Rex. 55 oz. with a ST 51 .
Willis   y1
« Last Edit: October 08, 2009, 02:32:30 PM by Willis Swindell »

Offline SteveMoon

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #75 on: October 08, 2009, 12:07:58 PM »
Wow! 55 oz, that's awesome!   Steve

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #76 on: October 08, 2009, 02:49:04 PM »
Wow! 55 oz, that's awesome!   Steve

Yep! figure the one I'm doing will end up at 57 or 58 with a Saito 62 and Joe's came out at 63 with a piped PA 61. No doubt this is the most capable 60 size ARF/ARC to come down the pike.

Offline Dick Fowler

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #77 on: October 08, 2009, 02:53:57 PM »
Brad, you might not have won he NATS with this design.... but I recognized that you raise the Bar quite high for the next generation of ARF's and ARC's.

I also understand the difference between the idea of a concept being "dumb" and the people alluded to being dumb. D>K
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Offline Allan Perret

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #78 on: October 08, 2009, 04:51:57 PM »
Question for anyone that knows. 
The ARF, does it come the blue graphics already applied, or just the solid orange film and you have to apply the graphic.
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Willis Swindell

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #79 on: October 08, 2009, 05:49:17 PM »
Allan I asked Jim Welch the same question. The graphics are applied.
Willis

Offline Steve Fitton

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #80 on: October 08, 2009, 06:36:31 PM »
Jim Welch came by this morning like a proud papa showing off his new T-Rex. 55 oz. with a ST 51 .
Willis   y1

Howcome Welch wussed out and didn't put the Saito 62 in it?

PS ask him which motor mount he used....
Steve

Offline Rick Henry

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #81 on: October 08, 2009, 06:46:21 PM »
I have been away from the hobby for about 5 years now but I would like to ease back into things using one of the engines I have on hand.  As light as this plane seems to be in ARF form do you guys think that a ST 51 would work out ok?  If so I might give one a try.


Thanks
Rick Henry

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #82 on: October 08, 2009, 06:59:39 PM »
Sweet weights and good initial flight reports are rolling in already... hate to count those chickens yet, but Brad, looks like ya done good!

Got mine, looks so nice in it's box that I brought it to the field for the guys to drool over.

Thanks for all your hard work Brad, I'd never have had the patience or been willing to try to build a "jug" fuse style plane like this, and will probably stick to building what I normally build in the future for my kit/scratch builds. So flying this will be a treat.

Can't wait to get mine together!

EricV

Willis Swindell

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #83 on: October 08, 2009, 07:49:48 PM »
Steve does the T-Rex come with more then one engine mount ? By the way yours is in.
Willis

Offline Wayne Collier

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #84 on: October 09, 2009, 03:28:26 AM »
>The Wright brothers were bicycle mechanics.

True, but they were much more, and having decided to tackle the problem of flight, they made themselves into scientists and engineers second to none in their own time.

Still, I do have a problem with this recurrent theme about the Wrights. Yup, in addition to scholars, writers, printers, publishers, and other things, they were indeed bicycle mechanics.

So let's cease mis-characterizing the Wrights, without at least understanding what they actually did. It's publically accesible.

SK

"I think the point about the Wrights is that you don't have to be a High Energy Physicist to be smart.
However the corollary is that it is possible to be dumb and be in any job!" --- quote from Alan Hahn


I never got the idea that anyone in this post or in other posts was trying to mis-characterize the Wright brothers. I don't think the people who keep bringing up the Wrights are meaning to diminish or ignore their education or engineering skills. I think those posters are using the Wrights as very good examples of the fact that someone can be smart, intelligent, and well educated without having an engineering degree.  Just as you have suggested, an interested person can indeed read first hand what the Wrights wrote and left behind.  One could become very knowledgable about this part of history without having a history degree or even going to college.  



ps  I have a degree (not engineering) and my desk at work is right by the senior engineers.





Wayne Collier     Northeast Texas
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never confuse patience with slowness never confuse motion with progress

Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #85 on: October 09, 2009, 10:34:30 AM »
I never got the idea that anyone in this post or in other posts was trying to mis-characterize the Wright brothers. I don't think the people who keep bringing up the Wrights are meaning to diminish or ignore their education or engineering skills.

Wayne-

I'm really sorry for diverting this thread further from its original purpose, but I have to respond here that several times in the recent past the Wrights have been cited specifically as an example of achieving controlled flight without using mathematics and other engineering skills. Their being "just bicycle mechanics" was used repeatedly in perceived contrast to and in specific criticism of those who do apply mathematics and physics to aircraft - specifically models - and post their results on SH. The last such criticism ended in something about making themselves "look smart." Actually, the Wrights were just like those being criticised, except probably much more original and thoroughly dedicated...and I do admire good mechanics.

SK

Offline Scott Jenkins

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #86 on: October 09, 2009, 11:06:46 AM »
Larry ,

I would like to have a copy of your Balsa BMP file too.
Does it come in a 4 lb. density  LL~  n~ LL~

Scott
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m) During the refuelling and the restart of the motor, and until the time when he releases the model aircraft, the mechanic must keep the model aircraft in contact with the ground by at least one point and with the centre line outside the flight circle. During that time the pilot must be crouching or sitting inside the centre circle. He keeps one hand on the ground and his handle and his lines as close to the ground as defined by the F2C panel of judges until the model aircraft starts again.

Offline Larry Cunningham

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #87 on: October 09, 2009, 01:12:01 PM »
Scott,

I confess to a bit of "popping" (increasing brightness and contrast) to make it look like punk 4 lb. wood. 8)

My artistic friends preferred the opal chisel - well, several others. I'm continually amazed at the texturing and rendering capabilities of modern 3D CAD software.

L.

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Offline Larry Cunningham

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #88 on: October 09, 2009, 01:33:50 PM »
We've all met brilliant people with little or no formal education. I also know a couple of PhDs who
demonstrate that "anyone can get a PhD", and haven't a lick of sense, common or otherwise. But
I've also known at least one PhD who was the most brilliant, energetic, thoughtful, insightful, and
creative designers on the planet. So what? Relevance to Brad's T-Rex model airplane?

Take a close look at the PDF that Brad posted for this model; one cannot help but be impressed at
his detail and effort. Why anyone wants to nick Brad on this work, I cannot feature. For that matter,
why anyone wants to nick anyone for creating a model airplane design (or building/finishing/flying one)
is beyond me.

Thank heaven we have people who think differently. (Well, start with people who THINK!  :o )

L.

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Offline Richard Grogan

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #89 on: October 10, 2009, 01:02:46 AM »
Geez
Are we supposed to fly ringmasters forever.? ???
Absolutely.  D>K
Long Live the CL Crowd!

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Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #90 on: October 10, 2009, 07:39:42 AM »
I have been away from the hobby for about 5 years now but I would like to ease back into things using one of the engines I have on hand.  As light as this plane seems to be in ARF form do you guys think that a ST 51 would work out ok?  If so I might give one a try.


Thanks
Rick Henry

Yes.  The ST 51 should pull the ARF nicely.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
-George Bernard Shaw

Offline John Sunderland

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #91 on: October 10, 2009, 10:08:36 AM »
Enough with the cheap shots fellas. I know of at least one kitted design that is very very popular.....and it never won anything prior to hitting  the shelves. I have first hand knowlege of it but so as not to out the designer, or get him involved in more bashing, I will save his name knowing full well that everyone here knows him. He hasnt won the Nats, some years has not even qualified, and yet many folks have found their wings so to speak with his designs and tutelage not to mention tons of cheap placques.

I watched a comedian last night on TV. He told of being confronted by an irate mother after a show because he said something was retarded. While it was the best word to describe the situation in his mind and many others, the mother took offense and told him" My son is retarded!" His reply," You just said he was retarded." Shrug of shoulders and lots of laughs. Different implications, syntax, and common modern vernacular amongst folks younger than you.  If Brad had said" That is just silly!" Those offended would have been just as much put out.

Anybody who knows Brad and my own history, knows we have had a disagreement or two. We resolve it fairly quietly and out of the public eye. I count him as a good friend and an eye to eye peer of mine. Doug and the rest of the Dallas clan will attest to the same. Some of what I read here sounds like he is being bated. Im sure he feels it and is responding respectfully.

We were fleglings together, flying our own designs even before hitting expert level. Not every airplane is a world beater. My guess is that this airplane in ARC form will get some newer, or less inclined to design their own in the air
and competing. And I would not be surprised on bit to see several on the flight line at the Nats in 2010.

Brad doesnt need me to defend him, but if I can muster up some respect, all others can too!

Offline catdaddy

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #92 on: October 10, 2009, 12:47:09 PM »
I watched a comedian last night on TV. He told of being confronted by an irate mother after a show because he said something was retarded. While it was the best word to describe the situation in his mind and many others, the mother took offense and told him" My son is retarded!" His reply," You just said he was retarded." Shrug of shoulders and lots of laughs. Different implications, syntax, and common modern vernacular amongst folks younger than you.  If Brad had said" That is just silly!" Those offended would have been just as much put out.
Brad doesnt need me to defend him, but if I can muster up some respect, all others can too!

Well put John.
Retarded is just a word that can be used to describe slow and undeveloped thinking. People that are "offended" by the word retarded are...retarded.
regards,
Rick"catdaddy"Blankenship

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #93 on: October 10, 2009, 12:55:10 PM »
I think someone stated on lthe other forum:  "Isn't it great to agree and disagree. Then still be friends."  Have fun,  DOC Holliday
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Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #94 on: October 10, 2009, 01:33:52 PM »
Anybody who knows Brad and my own history, knows we have had a disagreement or two. We resolve it fairly quietly and out of the public eye. I count him as a good friend and an eye to eye peer of mine.

Heck, John, I think we had words once...  More than a decade ago.  HAHAHAHHA!!!  We are getting old brutha!!!

I do remember my first designs.  A lot of people said, "why don't you fly so and so's design????"  Maybe my designs sucked back then.  I did not care.  I like the T-Rex...  it is superior in every way to anything I have ever done.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
-George Bernard Shaw

Offline Richard Grogan

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #95 on: October 10, 2009, 01:40:21 PM »
You should feel proud Brad, like a new poppa! Thats a nice contribution to the CL world. Thats the way I see it, anyways! Nice job, I can't wait to see the other color schemes.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 01:58:01 PM by Richard Grogan »
Long Live the CL Crowd!

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Offline Larry Cunningham

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #96 on: October 10, 2009, 01:48:45 PM »
In today's jargon: "using the word 'retarded' is just so 'gay'"..

L.

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Offline Bill Morell

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #97 on: October 10, 2009, 06:33:14 PM »
In today's jargon: "using the word 'retarded' is just so 'gay'"..

L.

"There's a pork chop in every can." -Mark Bowen, on nutritional value of beer

Larry, you never fail to make me laugh! That has to be one of the best of all comebacks ever!
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Offline jim welch

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #98 on: October 11, 2009, 08:41:43 PM »
Flew the T REX today. ST51,6.0 oz clunk uniflow,12x6 BYO (brodak) prop, 65 ft center of plane to handle lines,10 22 powermaster fuel.Airplane is 55 oz flying weight with the Tiger 51.After a tweek of the flaps and moving the tank twice and adjusting the needle valve, the orange machine became a very stable and nimble flying machine well beyond anything I expected.I got Steve Fitton to fly it and it's just as impressive from outside the circle as I felt it was from the center.With help from Willis,Steve,and the gang this will be one potent toy for my intermediate learning process! I can only imagine what bob's (both) electric and saito 62 versions are gonna be like,and to answer an earlier question the ST51 definately has plenty to spare in this bird!Quite honestly the most fun Iv'e had for the $$ in quite a while....Jim
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Offline Steve Fitton

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Re: The T-Rex is here
« Reply #99 on: October 11, 2009, 08:59:15 PM »
Some pics of Welch's T-Rex from today.  Brand new straight out of the box, the plane was pretty darn good, and should adjust to a killer plane.  It presents awesome from inside and outside the circle as well.  It improved Jimmy's pattern a great deal from the very first flight.  Now I need to get mine put together....
Steve


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