Author Topic: The most beautiful sound and sight i have ever seen!!! (Read 14493 times)

steve pagano · « **on:** July 15, 2007, 11:56:04 AM »

OK i was up till 330 last night working on trim on my latest plane. I finally fell asleep at about 5 AM. Today at 1 in the afternoon i was sound asleep until i herd a loud aircraft flying over my house! so low i felt my room shake!(not the best noise in the world to wake up to lol) Completely freaked out i ran to my kitchen window and there they were the most beautiful things i ever seen in my life 4 F-18 hornets flying in formation circling the statue of liberty!

Not sure if they were the blue angels but to have a formation of F-18s to be the first real fighter planes i have ever seen in the air! I have also never seen a real plane up close! lol except for dropping my sister of at the airport for when she goes on vacation. Any one know if the blue angels are in New York today?lol

Paul Smith · « **Reply #1 on:** July 15, 2007, 01:15:40 PM »

They'll be at Selfridge Army Air Corps Base this weekend.

However, I must beg to differ on the "most Beautiful" sight and sound.

Those honors go to the pair of F-104 Starfighters that (I hope) will again be the stars of the show.

ps: I you've never seen the Starfighters, the F-18 may very well be the best you've seen and heard.

http://www.starfighters.nl/
Log into this site, turn up your speekers and let it rip. Your wife, kids, and dogs will be diving for cover.

Bob Disharoon · « **Reply #2 on:** July 15, 2007, 02:13:58 PM »

I agree..saw my first starfighter, and heard!, that thing is especially incredible doing a low flyby at about 300 knots....I saw it at the tyco show in Fl. near Canaveral last year. It also needs a ton of runway!

Steve Scott · « **Reply #3 on:** July 15, 2007, 09:33:14 PM »

Quote from: ama21835 on July 15, 2007, 01:15:40 PM

However, I must beg to differ on the "most Beautiful" sight and sound.

Those honors go to the pair of F-104 Starfighters that (I hope) will again be the stars of the show.

ps: I you've never seen the Starfighters, the F-18 may very well be the best you've seen and heard.

http://www.starfighters.nl/
Log into this site, turn up your speekers and let it rip. Your wife, kids, and dogs will be diving for cover.

2 best sounds are:
Merlin powered P-51
J-79 powered F-104

Don't know what it was with the F-104 but the combination of that engine in that fuselage resulted in the infamous Starfighter howl. I heard lots of them in the '60s as a kid growing up around TAC bases.

Keith Spriggs · « **Reply #4 on:** July 15, 2007, 11:10:07 PM »

During World War 2 there would be flights of B-24 bombers that flew over where we lived. Some times there would be 15-20. It was a sound that will probably never be heard again.

Warren Leadbeatter · « **Reply #5 on:** July 16, 2007, 03:03:49 AM »

I know what you mean about the F18's. We live near Williamtown RAAF Airbase and see F18s flying around everyday. You see them flying very low over the water, very high up, in formation, and the occasional sonic boom can be heard in the distance out over the ocean. They are a truely magnificent flying machine.

Jim Morris · « **Reply #6 on:** July 16, 2007, 07:37:33 AM »

They will be banned because of global warming!

George · « **Reply #7 on:** July 16, 2007, 08:31:45 AM »

My vote goes to a P-51 and an F-14 flying together as a "Heritage Flight". After flying several passes, the P-51 peeled off to the left and the F-14 headed up. What a sight.

George

Bob Zambelli · « **Reply #8 on:** July 16, 2007, 09:14:22 AM »

For my choice of the most "beautiful sound", I was at an airshow in Geneseo, NY in 1990.

They performed the tradition and very emotional "Missing Man" formation with Amazing Grace playing in the background.

The four aircraft involved were the P-47 Thunderbolt, P-51 Mustang, F4U Corsair and F4F Wildcat.

When the formation was directly over the crowd, the Wildcat pulled up and disappeared into the clouds.

A sight and sound I will never forget.

Bob Z.

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #9 on:** July 16, 2007, 09:22:39 AM »

My pick would be watching a flight of NJ ANG F-105B Thunderchiefs taking off. That was an amazing sight and incredible sound!

Busby · « **Reply #10 on:** July 16, 2007, 02:08:03 PM »

At a recent contest at Marietta , Which is flown in the parking lot of Lockheed,
we had our own private air show both Sat and Sunday.
Saturday was 4 Hornets doing touch and gos and banking around straight over the lot at about 200 ft in knife edge. The pilot was looking down at us as we were looking up at him.when they left that afternoon full military takeoff at 45 degrees.
Sunday was a Raptor doing essentially the same thing except when he left it was with a takeoff and then to vertical flight to about 5000 ft ,you could see the thing
accelerate going vertical.
Very impressive, especially the noise.

Peter Nevai · « **Reply #11 on:** July 16, 2007, 07:22:00 PM »

How about the northern lights on a crystal clear night in the northern skys, or a pacific or keys sunset with more colors than one thinks is possible, or the early morining mist enshrouding a lush green mountain valley, or a vibrant coral reef in a ocean of gin clear tropical water? Sorry but airplanes just can't compae. The sound is interesting until you have the chance to live under an air bases runway flight path and they are trying to get their sorte quota in before the end of the month. The entire house shaking starting at 4:00 am gets old real quick. You guys have to get out more often.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #12 on:** July 17, 2007, 06:58:33 AM »

I think the uniques sound of F-104 The Starfighter is because it's a SINGLE ENGINE FIGHTER. Identical engines are used on multi-engine planes, but the out-of-synch sound of the engines destroys the whole effect. I agree that the long, resonating tube fuselage probably make better music than the little under-wing pods.

A couple years ago, I was inside the Selfridge Air Museum where the sound of jets goes on all day. Through all that backgound racket, I heard a Starfighter circling the base and said to the museum director "there's a Starfighter out there", to which he replied. "yeah, there's an air show this week end".

--------------------------------

Another good sound was that of Merlins and Allisons installed in unlimited hydroplanes. When they ran 'em on the Detroit River you could held the sound north of Eight Mile.

In the hydroplanes, the sound of over-revving when the prop comes out the water is a bonus.
-------------
A privately-owned F-4D, painted up like Steve Richie. Where do they get the money?

taildragger-j3 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 17, 2007, 10:02:45 AM »

I'd vote for BIG round engines (R-2800) in a P-47 and BIG V engines (Merlin) in a P-51.
I remember seeing "Jet Noise -- the sound of freedom" at an AF Base, I just don't remember which one.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #14 on:** July 17, 2007, 11:10:15 AM »

Quote from: taildragger-j3 on July 17, 2007, 10:02:45 AM

I'd vote for BIG round engines (R-2800) in a P-47 and BIG V engines (Merlin) in a P-51.
I remember seeing "Jet Noise -- the sound of freedom" at an AF Base, I just don't remember which one.

I flew C-47's with the R-1830.

A good sound was that of the second engine firng up. Something we didn't hear every day.

--------------------------------------------------

Another neat sound was an OV-10 doing a zero-roll landing. Flat-pitching those two gas turbines had a seldom-heard sound.

Marvin Denny · « **Reply #15 on:** July 17, 2007, 11:33:56 AM »

How about the deep throbbing drone of the B-36 overhead at about 35,000 feet on letdown. Man what a beautiful sound (unless you were a maintenance man and it was your plane)--- then it usually meant about 8 to 10 hours of hard work.

Bigiron

EddyR · « **Reply #16 on:** July 17, 2007, 01:33:03 PM »

Back in the mid 60's I was at Palmdale and two A-12 took off. I will never forget the sound of 60,000+ pounds of thrust each.
Ed

Wayne Collier · « **Reply #17 on:** July 17, 2007, 02:00:33 PM »

I've was privileged to have grown up near a small uncontrolled airport that got interesting traffic. There was a wonderful flying collection of WWII aircraft at a small museum about 60 miles from my childhood home. Later, my wife and I had our first home under the pattern of an air national guard base. One of the pleasant memories was the day I saw a B-17 and a DC3 pass over together at low altitude.

Jim Pollock · « **Reply #18 on:** July 17, 2007, 02:59:11 PM »

Steve,

The most beautiful sight and SOUND, I have ever heard - - until this day is Darryl Greenamyer's F8F, or more precisely, what was left of it after the skunk works engineers got done with it. The plane was coming around the last turn of the 1968 Reno Air Races. It was doing well over 500MPH as Darryl had it firewalled to pass a P-51 and win the race. Final race speed was around 450 or so for the slick Bearcat. Of course, it sounded great to me because I was standing in the Pits.

Jim Pollock

john e. holliday · « **Reply #19 on:** July 17, 2007, 03:11:59 PM »

I can still remember when a big Connie would be flying overhead, either coming or going out of the downtown airport in KC Mo. I was still in the single digits as far as age and lived on South 38th Street. Now living in Shawnee and had the thrill of seeing the restored Connie flying in and out of the old downtown airport. Last I heard was they blew one of cylinders on that big radial. Have fun, DOC Holliday

Paul Smith · « **Reply #20 on:** July 18, 2007, 09:33:40 AM »

I sorry to have missed seeing and hearing the B-36, B-47 and B-58.

I served with some KC-135 boom operators who had been gunners and flight mechs on the '36. They had some great war stories, and not the type I would publish.

The B-47 was way before my time, but Jimmy Stewart did a good job of showing the perils of a first-generation jet bomber, in Strategic Air Command, the role model for all SAC commanders to come.

There were still some (surviving) B-58 vets around, and a rightfully proud group they are, basically astronauts-all. The '58 was a legend in Shreveport. It was said that traffic was blocked for hours when crowds gathered to watch a takeoff. A very small airplane with four very large after-burning turbojets.

Leo Mehl · « **Reply #21 on:** July 18, 2007, 10:07:35 AM »

I saw a P-51 do a fast low pass alonside the Blimp hanger in tillamook on a bike ride one year. It was like it was a private show for me. Not once but three times. Very impresive. To see a B 52 for the first time is also very impresive.

John Miller · « **Reply #22 on:** July 18, 2007, 11:12:23 AM »

When I was about 8 years old, I was in school at the old Tooele Army Ordinance depot in Utah. This is near the area where AF Pilots train for combat missions out of Hill AFB today.

I was always airplane happy, so when I heard that sound, I looked up right away. Flying in at high speed, about 500 feet over the school yard first coming in was a P-47 twisting and turning rapidly. Right behind him, locked in mock Dog fight, was a Navy Corsair, right on his tail. The T Bolt was still being dogged by that bent wing as they flew out of sight. That sound of those two big radials at combat settings, is one that will never be forgotten.

John Miller

john e. holliday · « **Reply #23 on:** July 18, 2007, 02:55:24 PM »

I just had another one hit me not quite as memerable as the Connie. Was at the Glenview NATS north of Chicago getting ready for a carrier flight when here they came. A P-51 followed by a Spitfire. That Merlin sure sounded sweet. Have fun, DOC Holliday

don Burke · « **Reply #24 on:** July 18, 2007, 03:37:18 PM »

When I was a kid with my Dad in Germany, US Army, we were watching some "manuevers" when a couple of P-47s made a mock strafing run. That was neat! Several passes and my bro and I were sure they had flown under the tall power lines to make their runs!

Steve Scott · « **Reply #25 on:** July 18, 2007, 07:01:31 PM »

Quote from: Ty Marcucci on July 17, 2007, 12:26:09 PM

HI Bigiron. As a kid I remember those huge B36's flying over my hometown. All were headed south towards Arizona. One a day, every day, for about 3 months. We could hear them from 2 to 5 minutes before we saw them. They were not that high. Then years later I heard they were going south to be retired as the B47 and B52's had replaced them. Ah, but the sound, 6 turning, 4 burning. The ground vibrated.

I was in 1st grade when the old man was stationed at Biggs AFB in El Paso. I still remember all the cupboards rattling whenever they rumbled over.

Gonna have to pull out my old Jimmy Stewart "Strategic Air Command" video now. Wasn't there also a VHS made of "Starfighters"?

Steve Scott · « **Reply #26 on:** July 18, 2007, 08:32:46 PM »

Quote from: ama21835 on July 17, 2007, 06:58:33 AM

I think the uniques sound of F-104 The Starfighter is because it's a SINGLE ENGINE FIGHTER. Identical engines are used on multi-engine planes, but the out-of-synch sound of the engines destroys the whole effect. I agree that the long, resonating tube fuselage probably make better music than the little under-wing pods.

1. What causes the "Howl"?

It is actually the simple event of two differing airflows coming together and causing a whistle! The engine is surrounded with bypass air, some of which is coming from the engine air bypass flaps, and some is coming from generator access doors and aft fuselage suck-in panels. This bypass air is mixed with heated air coming from within the engine, which has been heated due to it having passed through the compressor and hot section. The result is a mixture of heated air, that which has passed through the engine, and cooler air, that which has passed around the engine, all of which is forced to be mixed when it encounters the convergent/divergent exhaust nozzle system. What we have is two airflows, one heated and faster from the engine, mixed with a slower and cooler airflow, from around the engine, forced out through the exhaust. The result is a whistle. Some call it a howl. What it really is, is J-79 installed in F-104, in operation. The howl is different in the 104 from the F-4 due to the differing amount of bypass airflow in the 104. The howl is also different in dash -19 and -J1K engines due to the differences in the convergent/divergent nozzle systems. It's still J-79, and we all love it.

by Mike Vivian, former USAF F-104A to F-104G pilot, Luke IP and Luftwaffe Exchange pilot
http://www.916-starfighter.de/Q&A.htm#1.

Norm Faith Jr. · « **Reply #27 on:** July 18, 2007, 10:15:40 PM »

Hope this will post. Click on the link and hyperlink and turn up your speakers.
Norm

http://www.cowtown.net/proweb/b36_sound.htm

Quote from: ama21835 on July 15, 2007, 01:15:40 PM

They'll be at Selfridge Army Air Corps Base this weekend.

However, I must beg to differ on the "most Beautiful" sight and sound.

Those honors go to the pair of F-104 Starfighters that (I hope) will again be the stars of the show.

ps: I you've never seen the Starfighters, the F-18 may very well be the best you've seen and heard.

http://www.starfighters.nl/
Log into this site, turn up your speekers and let it rip. Your wife, kids, and dogs will be diving for cover.

don Burke · « **Reply #28 on:** July 19, 2007, 08:13:03 AM »

F-18 is the LOUDEST airplane I've ever heard!

And the Starfighter has "ace" status with the Luftwaffe. Having killed more German pilots than any other airplane, or so I've heard.

Steve Scott · « **Reply #29 on:** July 19, 2007, 07:50:34 PM »

Quote from: don Burke on July 19, 2007, 08:13:03 AM

F-18 is the LOUDEST airplane I've ever heard!

I'd have to vote for the Rockwell B-1B Lancer as four GE F-101-GE-102 trubofan engines (30,000lbs thrust ea.) on full burner at 400 feet directly overhead when it was departing back to their home base (Carswell?) after a weekend airshow nearly rattled my teeth out. I had just exited my vehicle in a school parking lot just in time to catch him headed toward me so I paused to watch the "show". I mean, EVERYONE came outside to see the ruckus. Then the second B-1 went overhead.

Obviously not practicing their noise abatement techniques.

Envy those who got to see (hear) the XB-70.

don Burke · « **Reply #30 on:** July 19, 2007, 08:30:53 PM »

A friend was at Willow Springs Raceway near Edwards AFB for some SCCA races. Bill(?) White chief test pilot on the B-70 was a race fan and maybe even a participant. Anyhow, he couldn't make the races since a test flight had been scheduled for that day. So he did the next best thing, took the B-70 to the races. His low pass reportedly had everyone afraid to come out from under their cars for 5 minutes! Of course, it was back in the days when they could do things like that and get away with it!

Bob Zambelli · « **Reply #31 on:** July 23, 2007, 07:17:45 AM »

I'd have to vote for the Rockwell B-1B Lancer as four GE F-101-GE-102 trubofan engines (30,000lbs thrust ea.) on full burner at 400 feet directly overhead when it was departing back to their home base (Carswell?) after a weekend airshow nearly rattled my teeth out. I had just exited my vehicle in a school parking lot just in time to catch him headed toward me so I paused to watch the "show". I mean, EVERYONE came outside to see the ruckus. Then the second B-1 went overhead.

I'll agree with Steve on this one - the word LOUD takes on new meaning with the Bone (B-one).
When I was consulting for Raytheon Aircraft (Wichita) in the 90's, I would frequently eat lunch in the car.
At one point, I heard a noise that seemed to have the entire cars shaking.

Looking out, I saw a Bone doing a very low pass, wings extended, full burner.
Probably practicing high-performance take-offs from the nearby Air Force base.

I've heard the Harrier, F-18 and Tomcats but the Bone overwhelms them all.

Bob Z.

don Burke · « **Reply #32 on:** July 23, 2007, 10:56:51 AM »

Now that I remember, for total noise NOTHING beats an SR-71, orders of magnitude louder than an F-18!

Bill Adair · « **Reply #33 on:** July 24, 2007, 10:53:16 AM »

Leaving work at Boeing one evening, I saw a Concord SST taxing toward the south end of the runway. It had flown for the weekend airshow that I missed, and I think it was departing for home with a full fuel load. I pulled into the PNW Air Museum parking lot next to the runway, and waited outside my car. When the Concord went to full takeoff power I was nearly blown away by the noise, even with my fingers stuffed in my ears!

Spent two careers in the AF and aerospace industry, and around all types of aircraft and missiles, but can't recall anything being that loud before! Of course, the perception of noise is related to observer position, and relative distance from the vehicle.

Years earlier at Boeing I was on the B-1 and B1-B programs, and have watched several B-1B's take off at Edwards AFB. They didn't sound near as loud as the Concord, but I don't think they used afterburners for routine test flights out of Edwards.

Bill

Bob Zambelli · « **Reply #34 on:** July 24, 2007, 11:57:11 AM »

Bill - an old friend of mine flew a number of flights on the Concord and he said that the most unappealing thing about it was the cabin noise. Not a quiet plane.

Bob Z.

steve pagano · « **Reply #35 on:** July 24, 2007, 12:19:40 PM »

Quote from: don Burke on July 23, 2007, 10:56:51 AM

Now that I remember, for total noise NOTHING beats an SR-71, orders of magnitude louder than an F-18!

Does the SR-71 BlackBird still hold the speed record?

Phil Coopy · « **Reply #36 on:** July 24, 2007, 02:27:50 PM »

How's dis.....

Phil

Douglas Babb · « **Reply #37 on:** July 24, 2007, 03:05:28 PM »

After twenty years in the navy I guess the loudest and best sight would be:
1. A-6 intruder in tension on the starboard cat while your below it in the catwalk, made your guts rattle.
2. A B-1B showing up at miramar and doing full burner touch and goes in the FCLP pattern, whatta sight.
3. F-14 in the hush house, double hearing protection didn't seem to help at zone 5 burner. Oh yeah, a compressor stall in there was spectacular to say the least, you needed to check your skivies after that bang.
4. F-14 at CFB Cold Lake Canada coming down the flight line at 50' in full burner right over all the F-18's parked in a row, saw tools dropped and people ducking all the way down the line, you could feel the heat when he went by and pulled straight up.

EddyR · « **Reply #38 on:** July 24, 2007, 03:15:32 PM »

Well I posted this and it got lost so I will do it again. The A-12 was a little faster than the RS-71 later called the SR-71. The was lighter and could climb faster. I soon proved to be to much for one person on the long flights so the Sr-71 came about. The A-12 could go to 95,000 almost 10,000 ft more than the SR-71. I designed the vacuum tube voice recognition,EMP resistant equipment that went into # A-12/60-6940 ,D21 transport model. Several A-12's went over Mach 3.6 in level flight. Sr-71's are listed at Mach 3.35
Ed

Bill Adair · « **Reply #39 on:** July 24, 2007, 04:06:40 PM »

Bob,

I can only imagine how loud the Concord cabin must have been.

Ironically, one of only three Concords donated to the US, now sits a short distance from where I watched that take off.

Bill

steve pagano · « **Reply #40 on:** July 24, 2007, 04:35:27 PM »

Gentlemen,
Just out of curiosity in how many of you work or worked with/on military aircraft? It is a field i am truly interested in persuing as a career. Any advice?

P.S. Any one work on the F-14 Tomcat? It's by far my favorite

Bill Adair · « **Reply #41 on:** July 24, 2007, 05:20:21 PM »

Steve,

Naturally, education and training are the keys to employment in the Aerospace industry.

Not sure what particular field your interested in, as there are jobs of every imaginable description in the industry, and not all of them are fun. For instance, the flight line can be a brutal place to work in many locations around the world.

Manufacturing jobs are becoming scarce as more work is farmed out to other countries, and it's not likely to get any better.

Your best bet for a stable position might be a civil service job in military aviation, or a maintenance position with the air lines.

Civil aviation is another possibility, but an A&P (Airframe & Powerplant) license is pretty much a universal requirement.

Best of luck, with whatever career you persue.

Bill

EddyR · « **Reply #42 on:** July 24, 2007, 06:41:48 PM »

Steve From the comment I made about the A-12 you would think I was in the Air force but I was not. I improved a product from a company that I worked for who was going out of business so I became the only person to install it. I did spend four years in Special Forces in the 60's and the next 30 years as a contractor for many different non military government agencies including Nasa which allowed me to be self employed most of my life.No college education but I was a instructor to Special Forces which gave me a commission and a retirement check.
Ed

Bill Heher · « **Reply #43 on:** July 24, 2007, 07:27:18 PM »

I have to give a nod to the B-1B also, I had the pleasre to see one practicing for the arrival ceremony when the B1-bs were first sent to Grand Forks ND bak in the late 80's. I worked construction - pouring thousands of yards of concrete for new hangar and ramp space.

One day a Bone showed up and proceeded to make multiple low passes down the runway with the wings forward and gear out. As he came abreast the new hangar it would pull up a bit start rolling away, retract the gear, swing the wings and light the burners with the hot end pointed right at the new ramp we aere working on. Man- I thought that new 2 foot thick concrete was gonna crack. The sound made the ground vibrate and your guts got all wiggly feeling. They did it at least 6-7 times , and by the time he was on pass #3 all work had stopped and everyone including the boss was just amazed, watching the show.

I also got to see a B-17 make a low pass down that same runway with the full wing of B-52s parked in their hardstands. That was 1 time I really wish I had a camera, but they didn't let us bring any on base. The Sentimental Journey overflying thos Buffs was a site I'll always cherish.

Douglas Babb · « **Reply #44 on:** July 25, 2007, 12:08:53 AM »

Played the B-36 sound bite earlier, my two cats went into low crouch alert and headed for the cellar. Be easy on the volume with surround sound.

Wayne Collier · « **Reply #45 on:** July 25, 2007, 03:46:31 AM »

Got interested in just what is an A-12 anyway. After a little research, I learned that the airplane on display in Mobile, AL that I thought was an SR-71 is actually an A-12.

As to aviation career, I have a cousin who went to a specialized trade school to earn his Airframe & Power Plant (A&P) license. After a few jobs working on civil aircraft, he is now working on military helicopters in the middle east.

don Burke · « **Reply #46 on:** July 25, 2007, 11:22:43 AM »

I remember hearing B-36s much sooner than you could see them. I was always amazed at how good a target they made flying at 40,000 feet, they were in sight for quite a while.

Marvin Denny · « **Reply #47 on:** July 25, 2007, 12:25:05 PM »

Quote from: Bill Adair on July 24, 2007, 05:20:21 PM

Steve,
Your best bet for a stable position might be a civil service job in military aviation, or a maintenance position with the air lines.

Best of luck, with whatever career you persue.

Bill

Not Very stable to work for the Govmt in the military aviation field. (civil Service). In the first 28 years I worked for the government in the aviation field, I was officially laid off (Reduction in force) seven (7) times. Every Presidential election year, there was a GREAT fluctuation in work force due to "campaign promices". Each time, I managed (with great personal effort I might add) to find an open position that I qualified for and get transferred into.
Another thing is the "supposedly good" retirement system. It AIN'T SO !! Politicans can and do change or withhold your cost of living raises as they wish.
I would suggest for anyone to look into the civil service system VERY CAREFULLY before they commit a lifetime of dedication to it. Personally talk directly with and to those who are currently and those who have left or retired from that system before they commit.

Bigiron a 38 year veteran retiree from Civil Service.

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #48 on:** July 25, 2007, 05:37:52 PM »

Another neat sound was an OV-10 doing a zero-roll landing. Flat-pitching those two gas turbines had a seldom-heard sound.
[/quote]

The sound of the turbines on the OV-10 were unique.
The first time I ever heard them was in RVN laying on my belly. Five of us were pinned down by mortor and small arms fire.
Suddenly there was the loudest strangest scream I'd ever heard and 2 OV-10 Broncos appeared coming STRAIGHT DOWN, flaps deployed and armament visible underneath.
I swear they almost instantly turned 180 degrees and went straight up. 6-700 yards in front of us the ground erupted into a huge fireball. We could actually feel the heat where we were.
In a few seconds all was quiet and the aircraft were gone.
To this day I can close my eyes and see those two aircraft wing-tip to wing-tip executing that incredibly tight turn, and hear the howl of those big props and turbines as they climbed.
Needless to say I have a soft spot for those "beautiful" little airplanes.

Bill Adair · « **Reply #49 on:** July 25, 2007, 05:44:05 PM »

Hi Marv,

That's terrible!

Guess the AF civil service bunch I worked with, led very sheltered lives.

I was there for over twelve years, and only knew of one civil service employee (electrical engineer) that was ever laid off, and that fellow was a total incompetent! It still took a lot of effort to get rid of him.

An example of his incompetence was an engineering test report he wrote for the Air Force, on an inertial guidance system we were testing. He very carefully labeled all of the X-Y plots he made of accelerometer bias in each platform test position, including the plot that was straight line, because he forgot to connect the test leads!

Sad, because he was a very nice fellow, but his mind just didn't work like most people's. Methodical, but illogical.

Saw him years later, when I pulled up to a package store drive in window to buy some beer, and he waited on me. I really felt sorry for him, and was glad that I was not involved with his dismissal.

Steve Pagono,

If you are reading this, please heed Marvin Denny's warning. He has far more experience with civil service than I.

Bill