The greatest stunt ships that have never been published. Name your candidate!

[Dan McEntee]

  I believe the Phelps Patriot has been published in Model Aviation a few years ago. A pretty extensive article if I remember correctly. In fact I don't remember it so I ought to go back and re read it! He had another beautiful model called Avion that was one of my favorites. Good thing he flies clockwise or I may have stolen it from him!!
  Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

   PS to add;  And ditto on Elwyn being THE master of stunt photography ! There are some others that are pretty good, but Elwyn IS the master!

[Ron Varnas]

A tentative + 1 for Infinity not for its aesthetics, more so its wing/stab airfoil sections/ areas & moments.

[Trostle]

Speaking of Jerry Phelps, how about his "Patriot?" He flew it very well, and I see that a "Patriot" has flown impressively at the Nats within the last 2-3 years.

The Jerry Phelps Patriot was published in the June 2004 issue of Model Aviation.

Keith

[Serge_Krauss]

  I believe the Phelps Patriot has been published in Model Aviation a few years ago.

The Jerry Phelps Patriot was published in the June 2004 issue of Model Aviation.

I forgot that. That wasn't long after Jerry flew it to a good placing at VSC. 'sorry to contribute one not qualified, even though the article appeared long after it's top competition years.

SK

[Dennis Adamisin]

Bill Werwage Super Ares - I do not think it has been published.

From the Classic era, when originally built it used the K&B 45 - and was a wee bit underpowered, though Billy did well with it (imagine that?) There are LOTS of big power choices available today - the one in the pix was at Brodak in 2008, I think it used a Saito 56, CANNOT for the life of me remember the builder's name...

[RandySmith]

Bill Rich  and  the  Vigilant   

[EddyR]

I vote for the Vigilant. I flew all three of them. I owner one after Bill finished with it. The turn was amazing but it was a large plane by today's standards.
All were ST/60 powered.
EddyR

[Scott Richlen]

He had another beautiful model called Avion that was one of my favorites.

Dan (or anyone else):

Any pictures of the Avion that you could post?

[Les McDonald]

Bill Werwage Super Ares - I do not think it has been published.

From the Classic era, when originally built it used the K&B 45 - and was a wee bit underpowered, though Billy did well with it (imagine that?) There are LOTS of big power choices available today - the one in the pix was at Brodak in 2008, I think it used a Saito 56, CANNOT for the life of me remember the builder's name...

I believe this one belongs to Ken Cerny. He lives in Ft Lauderdale and I remember seeing it at some of the Florida contests a few years ago.

[RandySmith]

Bill Werwage Super Ares - I do not think it has been published.

From the Classic era, when originally built it used the K&B 45 - and was a wee bit underpowered, though Billy did well with it (imagine that?) There are LOTS of big power choices available today - the one in the pix was at Brodak in 2008, I think it used a Saito 56, CANNOT for the life of me remember the builder's name...

That plane  has  won the  NATs  Classic Contest at least twice   and  maybe 3 times  ,  at least 2  used  the  PA 40

Randy

[Joe Magaratz]

Hi All.  I'm brand new to this forum, but have been in love with control line for years.  In a conversation with Bob Hunt (about 23 years ago) we spoke about why control line was so much more to my liking than RC.  I am a pilot (small private planes and sailplanes) and Bob's opinion was that the feel of the U-control handle gave a direct feel and feedback that was like the direct feel of the controls of the sailplanes I then sat in and flew.  In that conversation I think we talked about I-Beam stunters and an article that appeared in Flying Models magazine when Bob worked there.  Those seemed then to me, and still do, as possibly the highest form of the home builders art.  And I thought a lot of the article, as it was written, itself.  The description of Bob Dailey and the young boys who created and flew those ships and how it all came to be was inspiring to me.  Ever since I have, off and on, wanted to find an accurate set of plans for these model planes -- and it has proven elusive.  Most describe plans that didn't quite recreate the original planes.  Does any one know where -- and if -- any of these can be found?  And I have asked recently about the story itself as it appeared across several issues of Flying Models.  Does anyone know which issues this was in?

[Air Ministry .]

Theres Onw for you . https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/the-argus-rare-and-beautiful-a-short-video-10minutes/ Try Search Here .
Detroiter / I beam .

Hows THIS for ORIGINAL . Downloadable from Hippocket or other plan site .



There were a few I beamers in the F M plan series .
One of Galdinis olymics even , was I beam .

As often they were built ' on the board ' from a few lines on paper , theres nothing to stop you following suit .

[Joe Magaratz]

Thanks Matt,

Being new to this forum I just didn't look through all there was.  Quite a bit, and this looks like a good one to start with.  Here's another question:  I know they built them light, but what glue did they use?  From time immemorial I used Ambroid.  But that's gone now.  Found a guy selling what he called a "professional" grade of Ambroid that's clear!  Not amber color.  He says the amber color was due to the used of recycled stock (celluloid or whatever -- can't remember exactly).  But that may be a mute point.  The real question is, what was originally used and how was it done to build them light.  I admit to being clueless about that.  Always worried whether I had enough glue to do the job, I just gobbed it on -- probably made my models twice as heavy as they should have been.  Sort of like a plastic resin plane with some balsa inside it.  I know even the balsa has different weights, but what is suitable for what I don't know.  Anyway, thanks again for pointing me in the right direction for some plans.

Joe

[Brett Buck]

  From time immemorial I used Ambroid.  But that's gone now.  Found a guy selling what he called a "professional" grade of Ambroid that's clear!  Not amber color.  He says the amber color was due to the used of recycled stock (celluloid or whatever -- can't remember exactly).

  Where is this? That sets of my detector, and has a familiar odor, but not of model cement.... Not to mention the *name of the product was Amber-oid!  Ambrold *long predates* any conventional notion of recycling, it was around in the late 1800's to early 1900's.  Oy gevalt!  Probably SIGMENT or Duco cement, or UHU-Hart. You can make your own equivalent by melting plastic with MEK and acetone, but, why, you can get all the SIG-MENT you want. Heck, it's more or less the same stuff in "liquid bandage" from the drugstore.

   They built them light by using very good technique, not "special glue". Ambroid or other model cement is fine, but so are tiny dots of Cyanoacrylate, and tiny bits of Titebond or Elmer's Carpenter's wood glue, and are probably easier to work with. The glue weight is negligible, the real weight is in the hardware, wood, and *paint*.

    Brett

   

   

[Bill Ervin]

Windy’s Red Baron racing P-51

[FLOYD CARTER]

Brett's observation regarding "Titebond", or similar water-based adhesives, echoes the work of many modelers who do not like the smell of traditional model cements.  Also, many people cannot use CA, due to allergies.
I remember Geo. Aldrich saying that he built some models using "white glue.

[Joe Magaratz]

Thanks Brett.  The guy selling Ambroid "professional" grade sounded pretty legit and knowledgeable.  But I guess if you're going to scam, sounding legit is the name of the game.  All this comes under the heading of I'd rather use a long bow instead of a compound bow, but I don't want to use an Atlatl.  I'm interested in building those old models the way it was done, rice paper or silkspan, Ambroid or hide glue or whatever.  Of good technique I guess quite a bit has been written about the use of glue and tissue and balsa -- just don't know where that's found.  Not that I can't find it, but I thought I'd ask.  By the way, if this is in the wrong direction for this site, I apologize.  Any redirection would be appreciated.  My building skills started off in a rudimentary way and never progressed much beyond that.  And in terms of looking for a strong wood glue, if you're laminating wood for a bow, that is, gluing two pieces of wood together, homemade glue from a packet of Knox gelatin (just powdered gelatin and water) has been shown to be stronger than any other type of glue across different stress tests, commercial or otherwise, except for 24 hr epoxy which is just marginally stronger -- Boyer's Bible.  You just don't want to use it under water, so no canoes.  Hence Ambroid. 

Joe

[Brett Buck]

Thanks Brett.  The guy selling Ambroid "professional" grade sounded pretty legit and knowledgeable.  But I guess if you're going to scam, sounding legit is the name of the game.  All this comes under the heading of I'd rather use a long bow instead of a compound bow, but I don't want to use an Atlatl.  I'm interested in building those old models the way it was done, rice paper or silkspan, Ambroid or hide glue or whatever.  Of good technique I guess quite a bit has been written about the use of glue and tissue and balsa -- just don't know where that's found.

   If you just want to do it the way they did it, model cement is probably the best way to go, and you can get SIG-MENT here:

https://sigmfg.com/collections/glues-adhesives-and-tapes/products/sig-sig-ment

    Probably preferable to Ambroid, because it won't bleed orange stains through the finish. If it was me, I would probably use Titebond for the ribs and thin and medium cyanoacrylate for almost everything else, but just about anything works for gluing balsa to balsa.  The pre-gluing on the ends of the ribs using Ambroid, etc, would drive me crazy (crazier?), everything else would be OK.

   I built A LOT of airplanes with Ambroid, they stay together well enough, but all the pre-gluing and double-gluing, lack of "grab", plus having to use pins and leave pinholes everywhere made me switch to cyanoacrylate for almost everything a long time ago.

  Floyd mentions white glue, but the low solid content and very fast evaporation makes it a very poor second choice to Titebond or other aliphatic - basically, they are the same thing, except every single aspect of Titebond is superior to conventional white glue. Titebond costs twice as much - but it's still *dirt cheap* compared to everything else. Note that you want original Titebond or Elmers Carpenter's wood glue, not "Titebond II" or any of the the others "waterproof" types.


     Brett

[Lyle Spiegel]

Walter Prey (February 12, 1947 - December 24, 2011) was a legendary pinstriper and custom car painter from Los Angeles. I saw him often in West San Fernando Valley
 His planes that I remember were Outlaw and Gunslinger. I dont know if they were ever published. I have photos of them I can try to post .

[Ted Fancher]

Haven't reread the whole shebang but...

I don't believe the Gieseke Nobler was ever published.  Sure has to rank among the greatest records of non-published famous ships.

Ted

[john e. holliday]

It was kitted but not published.  I left my kit version with a long gone modeler in Great Bend KS.

[Ken Culbertson]

Haven't reread the whole shebang but...

I don't believe the Gieseke Nobler was ever published.  Sure has to rank among the greatest records of non-published famous ships.

Ted

He would have had to have flown the same version two days in a row before you could publish it!
Ken

[Randy Powell]

Since Serge mentioned the Mirage, here's the Mirage III. Now that I've sorted it out, it flies fairly well.

[Lyle Spiegel]

Model Aviation January 1977 has a write up by Wynn Paul about the G Nobler. Probably as close as one can be to having the G Nobler "published"