Author Topic: The greatest stunt ships that have never been published. Name your candidate! (Read 14162 times)

Scott Richlen · « **on:** April 26, 2018, 06:31:09 AM »

What would you say is the greatest stunt ship never published? There have to be dozens of deserving stunt ships that have never made the limelight!

Maybe they flew locally but never made it to the Nats. Maybe they made it to the Nats but the designer only had the plans on brown wrapping paper. For instance, that was the situation for the USA-1 until Tiahart (spelling?) got with Werwage and drew up the plans. How many more are out there like this?

Why do you think that a particular plane should be published? If you have a picture of your nomination, please post it! Any history? Let's hear that as well!

Bob Hunt · « **Reply #1 on:** April 26, 2018, 06:49:09 AM »

Well, Scott, we could start with your Silver Lancer... I've been asking you to allow me to publish that design for about 30 years...

Bob Hunt

Scott Richlen · « **Reply #2 on:** April 26, 2018, 07:12:07 AM »

Actually, that could happen now that we have a bunch of CAD guys volunteering to draw up the plans (am I supposed to still use the word "draw"?)

And thanks for the nomination, now it won't look self-serving for me to publish the SL-3. (If anyone complains, I'll just blame you!

)

But I do have to ask, what other planes would you nominate Bob? I'm interested in your perspective. Also, I'm thinking about a P-51 that a certain Mike Palko flies like nobodies business.....

proparc · « **Reply #3 on:** April 26, 2018, 08:50:47 AM »

They have these types of threads over at the RC Classics forum and they are SOOO MUCH FUN!! Great photos start to emerge and tall tales of the "good old days" before Turnaround.

Mike Ferguson · « **Reply #4 on:** April 26, 2018, 11:06:35 AM »

I’d love to see Paul Walker’s Bad News design published. I think reading how that evolved into the Impact would be interesting.

Scott Richlen · « **Reply #5 on:** April 26, 2018, 03:02:42 PM »

"Bad News" has always been one of my favorites. It just had "the look".

bob whitney · « **Reply #6 on:** April 26, 2018, 03:59:22 PM »

glad I am not the only one hooked on the Bad News. was lucky enough to see the Famous wind flight

Ron Varnas · « **Reply #7 on:** April 26, 2018, 04:59:03 PM »

Ski Dombrowski's "Lace Maker"

Ted Fancher · « **Reply #8 on:** April 26, 2018, 05:12:39 PM »

Quote from: Ron Varnas on April 26, 2018, 04:59:03 PM

Ski Dombrowski's "Lace Maker"

Ditto!

Frank Imbriaco · « **Reply #9 on:** April 26, 2018, 05:13:54 PM »

Ryan's Eagle.

Bob Hunt design with some of Buddy Weider's "preferences".

Pictures, Bob ?

Frank

Larry Fernandez · « **Reply #10 on:** April 26, 2018, 05:32:08 PM »

Brett’s Infinity

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

don boka · « **Reply #11 on:** April 26, 2018, 06:35:35 PM »

How about some of the mid fifties Daly I-Beam designs from the Strathmoor club in Detroit like Jim Ebejers Neptune and Rod Pharis and his Jupiter. Art Pawloskis' Atom was published in MAN some time ago but not his earlier Globe with the pre Daly sheeted Nobler style wing construction. Roland McDonalds Strathmoor was published with a sheeted wing and not the I-Beam which I recall it having. Jim, Rod, and Art all won Jr and Sr. at the Nationals and Roland seemed to always end up second in Open. The I-beam, although not new, was still a "Secret" item back years ago.
Don Boka.

Scott Richlen · « **Reply #12 on:** April 26, 2018, 06:54:31 PM »

Weren't some of these early I-Beamers in Flying Models years ago? However, I don't recall which ones.

I had never heard of the Globe before. Any pictures?

Serge_Krauss · « **Reply #13 on:** April 26, 2018, 07:00:19 PM »

I'm not sure what "published" means here, but if we're speaking of magazine articles as in the old days, then how about another classic, for which I have had plans for a while: Mario Rondinelli's "Venus." There is a photo of Australian Nats classic winners, one of which is a nice "Venus," but I can't find it. As I recall, this is a Nobler derivative with a nice airfoil, elliptical wing, and specially contoured fuselage..

Scott Richlen · « **Reply #14 on:** April 26, 2018, 08:24:13 PM »

I remember seeing Rondinelli's Venus many years ago in American Modeler and thinking that it was a really nice-looking airplane. But sadly, there wasn't much accompanying information. So, how did it fly? Did it ever place in any contests? Who was Mario Rondinelli and what was he like? Was this his one great "build" or were there more?

don boka · « **Reply #15 on:** April 26, 2018, 08:25:14 PM »

Hi Scott.
To the best of my knowledge the only I-beamer that appeared was Arts' Atom, I built the model shown for the MAN article. The original was not exactly presentable at the time of publication and had been painted a different color as well.
Again, Rollands' Strathmoor was presented in Air Trails I think but not sure about the magazine. However the original I-beam construction was not shown . These stunters were sheet and block, usually Berry Brothers butyrate over nitrate, a bit over 500 sq. inches, large flaps with not too much travel and a bit of swept forward trailing edges. Earlier ones weighed around 50 ounces and later around 37, 39 ounces. power was of course Fox 35 with a healthy addition of nitro, popular props were the original Y&O 10/5. Except Rod in the Top Flight ad! Right Rod? I do not believe I have any pictures of the Globe which was red and yellow, bubble canopy, fuse landing gear with wheel pants and the tail stinger that was popular on these airplanes.
Don Boka.

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #16 on:** April 26, 2018, 09:03:33 PM »

Quote from: Ted Fancher on April 26, 2018, 05:12:39 PM

Ditto!

Yeah Me too for the Lace Maker! What a gorgeous airplane!. I tend to doubt, however that very many people would actually want to attempt to build one! Worse than a big stick and tissue model to construct!

Anyone know how well it actually flew?

Randy Cuberly

Ron Varnas · « **Reply #17 on:** April 26, 2018, 09:06:17 PM »

Was there a I-beamer called the "Louisiana Lightning" back in the day ? was it ever published & who was the builder ??

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #18 on:** April 26, 2018, 09:12:29 PM »

I would also like to see Brett's Infinity published, or at least I would like to have plans for it!

It's obviously been a very successful and long lived design!

It deserves some recognition in print and ink for posterities sake if no other! C'mon Brett! Give it up!

Randy Cuberly

Robert Zambelli · « **Reply #19 on:** April 26, 2018, 09:37:26 PM »

There was a fellow from the Philadelphia area who built something called the "Conquistador" (sp).

I met him years ago but can't recall the name.

Bob Z.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #20 on:** April 26, 2018, 10:21:56 PM »

PW's Predator plans with option for IC power would be cool.

Steve

Brett Buck · « **Reply #21 on:** April 26, 2018, 10:33:46 PM »

Quote from: Randy Cuberly on April 26, 2018, 09:12:29 PM

I would also like to see Brett's Infinity published, or at least I would like to have plans for it!

It's obviously been a very successful and long lived design!

It deserves some recognition in print and ink for posterities sake if no other! C'mon Brett! Give it up!

I have some very nice CAD plans by Jack Pitcher, just needs a few tweaks, but I have sort of lost any momentum on the project. A few copies have gotten out, and most of them fly pretty much like I wanted, so they must be pretty close.

Brett

Trostle · « **Reply #22 on:** April 26, 2018, 10:50:22 PM »

Quote from: Scott Richlen on April 26, 2018, 08:24:13 PM

I remember seeing Rondinelli's Venus many years ago in American Modeler and thinking that it was a really nice-looking airplane. But sadly, there wasn't much accompanying information. So, how did it fly? Did it ever place in any contests? Who was Mario Rondinelli and what was he like? Was this his one great "build" or were there more?

Rondinelli was second at the 64 Nats. The design has appeared several times at VSC. I am not sure where or who the plans came from.

Keith

Trostle · « **Reply #23 on:** April 26, 2018, 11:10:55 PM »

Quote from: Robert Zambelli on April 26, 2018, 09:37:26 PM

There was a fellow from the Philadelphia area who built something called the "Conquistador" (sp).

I met him years ago but can't recall the name.

Bob Z.

Bob,

You may be talking about something else. However, there have been two designs published with the name "Conquistador". The El Conquistador by Clair Sieverling in American Modeler, March 58 was a straight wing, tapered flap design. The Conquistador by Thorton Hoffman was in Model airplane news, August 1958 was a very attractive design with an elliptical wing and tail, inverted engine, bubble canopy. In my opinion, this is one of the more attractive designs from that era.

Keith

Ron Varnas · « **Reply #24 on:** April 26, 2018, 11:30:41 PM »

Putting this one in the mix Bob "Champione" Lampione's PM classic, which to my knowledge
this PM version was never published.

Mike Ferguson · « **Reply #25 on:** April 27, 2018, 05:10:48 AM »

Quote from: Ron Varnas on April 26, 2018, 09:06:17 PM

Was there a I-beamer called the "Louisiana Lightning" back in the day ? was it ever published & who was the builder ??

That was one of Windy Urtnowski’s planes that he built in 1986 (along with “Relentless”). It’s a “Big Jim” Greenaway Bee-Jay design with a Cardinal look to it (although it precedes the original Cardinal by two years).

Scott Richlen · « **Reply #26 on:** April 27, 2018, 07:18:15 AM »

Randy:

I saw the Lacemaker fly at one of the Chickopee (sp?) Massachusetts Nats. I think it flew okay but remembered it as being a bit "swoopy" in the corners (if that makes sense). Not sure that that wasn't just how Ski flew it. He was a good pilot but not one of the top flyers. I'd bet that it would fly pretty much representative of the pilot's ability that was flying it.

I saw it during appearance points up close and thought is was stunning. Dombrowski was a master builder. He came to Eastern Shore contest either last year or the year before but was not flying. I think he said that he still had it. I wish he'd build another one.

Scott

Scott Richlen · « **Reply #27 on:** April 27, 2018, 07:20:50 AM »

Ron:

That PM of Lampiones is the prettiest PM that I've seen!

By the way, Al Reed still has his PM and it is in pristine condition. He's another one of these guys that we keep trying to get to show up at the flying field. He's busy with other stuff.

Scott

Ron Varnas · « **Reply #28 on:** April 27, 2018, 08:02:14 AM »

Quote from: Scott Richlen on April 27, 2018, 07:20:50 AM

Ron:

That PM of Lampiones is the prettiest PM that I've seen!

By the way, Al Reed still has his PM and it is in pristine condition. He's another one of these guys that we keep trying to get to show up at the flying field. He's busy with other stuff.

Scott

Hey Scott,

The thread starter was best looking unpublished, the 'Lacemaker' I know wasn't published

Bob's PM also came to mind, though there is / was a plan of sorts not published that I'm aware of
I was fortunate enough to get a copy many years ago from a very nice guy on the East Coast,
don't wish to blow my trumpet about the plan as it has a few big names on it

get my drift

Ron Varnas · « **Reply #29 on:** April 27, 2018, 08:09:12 AM »

Quote from: Mike Ferguson on April 27, 2018, 05:10:48 AM

That was one of Windy Urtnowski’s planes that he built in 1986 (along with “Relentless”). It’s a “Big Jim” Greenaway Bee-Jay design with a Cardinal look to it (although it precedes the original Cardinal by two years).

Mike you should be with NCIS) ........its all coming back now I think I saw the "Louisiana Lightning" on
one of Windy's old videos during a gallery shot scene.

Thank you might have to chase up some old 'Bee- Jay' material.

Ron

Perry Rose · « **Reply #30 on:** April 27, 2018, 09:04:50 AM »

Pat Johnston's ringmaster 576 and 526, the Shark 560 and 610 and Wildcat. My P-39, Tennessee Hound Dog, The "Nomad" series, to name a few. Don Hutchinson's war bird series.

Brent Williams · « **Reply #31 on:** April 27, 2018, 09:13:14 AM »

Gordan Delaney's Heinz-57.
Fantastic looking classic legal plane. The orange plane was built by Gordan and the cream colored plane was built by Ray Firkins.

Bob Hunt · « **Reply #32 on:** April 27, 2018, 09:17:13 AM »

There are many ships that fit into this category. Unfortunately many of them will never be published because actual plans do not exist, nor have ever existed. Let me 'splain...

Gene Schaffer's "Blackbird" (so named by Bill Simons because in those days Gene never named his ships) is just one of many examples of very successful designs that were "built on the wood." In other words, the builder just measured out the nose length and the hinge line-to-hinge line dimensions on 1/8-inch balsa sides and went from there. Sometimes there was a rough drawing of the side view of the fuselage shapes; sometimes not. I know that Bill Simons, Gene, and I often built our ships in that manner. My Caprice was not formally drawn until many years after the original was just a distant memory. So, how could it possibly be accurate? Well, I knew the fuselage dimensions, what wing was used, an I had a folder containing templates of the "swoopy" bits like the wing tips, rudder and spats. Connecting the dots after laying these dimension out on a board yielded what I consider as accurate a representation of the original as are any of the Classic designs seen on the field. Unfortunately Bill Simons (who "designed" many ships in this manner) did not keep any folders of templates of the parts of his ships. None of us even remotely thought that anyone in the future might actually want to build these designs.

A good example of this is my pick for the most beautiful non-published design of all time, the Stiletto 700 by three-time World Champion, Les McDonald. I have the original templates from which that model's wing was cut, but, sadly, the model no longer exists, and Les did not draw any formal plans for it.

I've spoken with Les about this model several times over the years and asked him if he could work up plans for it. Les declined I think because he knew whatever he came up with would not be absolutely accurate to the original. He's got scruples... Who knew...

Another beautiful Les McDonald original was his Tropicaire. Les freely admits that it was just a mildly restyled Jim Kostecky-designed Formula S, but it had a character all its own. I'd build one for Super 70s if plans existed...

I've been told that there are programs that can examine a photo that was taken at any given angle, and if only one dimension on the photo is a known one, then the rest of the dimensions can be extrapolated. Perhaps this may be an acceptable way to reclaim some of these great, non-published designs

By the way, in answer to the question above in this thread about how the Lacemaker flew, I can tell you that three time World Champion, Bill Werwage flew that plane and said that it was one of the finest flying models he had ever flown.

Bob Hunt

proparc · « **Reply #33 on:** April 27, 2018, 09:25:23 AM »

Quote from: Ron Varnas on April 26, 2018, 11:30:41 PM

Putting this one in the mix Bob "Champione" Lampione's PM classic, which to my knowledge
this PM version was never published.

I own this plane thanks to my Bro Jose Modesto. Has a genuine Big Jim ST 60 Red Hemi Head motor. Needed trimming to get to rock, but flies nice. It is REALLY REALLY BIG!!!

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #34 on:** April 27, 2018, 10:31:14 AM »

Bob it’s neat to see that picture of Les’ Tropicaire. He was polishing that rascal in the work hanger at the Nats when I first met him. Really pretty! Milton that airplane- isn’t that the one Jose brought to the Team Trials last year? Not to compete but test fly. I think I launched it once. It looked like it was flying well.

Dave

BTW Bob- what about Gene’s Air Boss? Anything exist of it? I know it came apart in the air at the Nats in practice. Hardest turning thing I ever saw. It just couldn’t stand up to it forever.

Frank Imbriaco · « **Reply #35 on:** April 27, 2018, 10:43:42 AM »

Back to my nominee, the Ryan's Eagle. Bud Weider built three and I built one. Bud placed in the Top Ten at the NATS and won Expert at Brodaks with his. (sure wish I could fly like him). His is no doubt the "bench mark " example.
Mine got the Concours Award at an event this past summer.

Mine "borrowed" his trim scheme with some color variation. Did that to honor my friend, Ryan Weider. I also widened the fuse, shifted the canopy, pinched the nose, added gills to the cowl, and a few other subtleties .

Mine is NX 29614. I'll post a pic of Buddy's next.

Frank Imbriaco · « **Reply #36 on:** April 27, 2018, 10:44:41 AM »

Here's Buddy's

Frank Imbriaco · « **Reply #37 on:** April 27, 2018, 10:50:55 AM »

Another shot with pilot , Buddy Weider .

C'MON BACK , BUD !!!!

Frank Imbriaco · « **Reply #38 on:** April 27, 2018, 10:54:35 AM »

Can I nominate another ?
Bob Hunt's Crossfire; in particular the "Drop- nose " variant.
Pics from builders ?

Frank Imbriaco · « **Reply #39 on:** April 27, 2018, 11:07:46 AM »

I'm getting carried away with all of this. Darn near forgot the one and only constructed "JD FALCON II". The late John D'Ottavio , a.k.a. "Mr. Stunt" , penciled that one for me Fall 1968. I still have his aged and faint side profile drawing on poster paper and a rib template.
Check out the little picture insert alongside my name in the upper left . That's it at the 69 Navy NATs, Willow Grove , Pa. ( Credit to Shultzie - God rest).
I lost it on the reverse wingover during very high winds -smack into the tarmac at Mitchell Field, Long Island , NY Contest( Fall 1969).
Hope to someday do another...

Serge_Krauss · « **Reply #40 on:** April 27, 2018, 12:28:56 PM »

Quote from: Scott Richlen on April 26, 2018, 08:24:13 PM

I remember seeing Rondinelli's Venus many years ago in American Modeler and thinking that it was a really nice-looking airplane. But sadly, there wasn't much accompanying information. So, how did it fly? Did it ever place in any contests? Who was Mario Rondinelli and what was he like? Was this his one great "build" or were there more?

Scott -

I believe this excerpt from Jerry Worth's M.A.N. (2/69) article is worth (no pun) reading. Mario did place high at the Nats, and I believe he won some other competitions. Jerry Worth was impressed enough that he redesigned his "Mirage" to incorporate his version of the "Venus" wing and liked the performance of both planes. I've included the scanned excerpt and plans from his article. My "Venus" plans are nicely drawn by someone who signed them "JLW" (I'm thinking Jerry Worth, based on the article) and were sent to me by Canadian modeler Dennis, who might comment here, if he wants. As I wrote, there was a nice one that placed high recently in Australia's version of Classic, but I haven't had time to go through my files to find the internet photo.

Edit: My plans are the Jerry Worth drawings, and I found a letter from Mario to Alan Ressinger describing the model.Correspondence describes color, design philosophy, and limits of the plans' dimensions.

SK

Scott Richlen · « **Reply #41 on:** April 27, 2018, 12:52:08 PM »

Quote

My P-39, Tennessee Hound Dog, The "Nomad" series

Perry:

Do you have pictures of any of these? What's their competition record?

Thanks,
Scott

Scott Richlen · « **Reply #42 on:** April 27, 2018, 12:56:10 PM »

Quote

I've been told that there are programs that can examine a photo that was taken at any given angle, and if only one dimension on the photo is a known one, then the rest of the dimensions can be extrapolated. Perhaps this may be an acceptable way to reclaim some of these great, non-published designs

Anybody in the stunt community with this capability? At least with some of the classic ships, if we knew that they used a Nobler wing we could probably recreate them from a few photos.

Robert Zambelli · « **Reply #43 on:** April 27, 2018, 12:59:32 PM »

Yep, Keith, it was Thornton Hoffman. I met him many years ago. He was a close friend on a fellow club member, Phil Sam.
It was rumored (not confirmed!) that after his passing, the original model that he still had in his house mysteriously disappeared.
True? Who knows. Who will ever know?
Bob Z.

Quote from: Trostle on April 26, 2018, 11:10:55 PM

Bob,

You may be talking about something else. However, there have been two designs published with the name "Conquistador". The El Conquistador by Clair Sieverling in American Modeler, March 58 was a straight wing, tapered flap design. The Conquistador by Thorton Hoffman was in Model airplane news, August 1958 was a very attractive design with an elliptical wing and tail, inverted engine, bubble canopy. In my opinion, this is one of the more attractive designs from that era.

Keith

Gordon Van Tighem · « **Reply #44 on:** April 27, 2018, 01:04:45 PM »

Quote from: Serge_Krauss on April 26, 2018, 07:00:19 PM

I'm not sure what "published" means here, but if we're speaking of magazine articles as in the old days, then how about another classic, for which I have had plans for a while: Mario Rondinelli's "Venus." There is a photo of Australian Nats classic winners, one of which is a nice "Venus," but I can't find it. As I recall, this is a Nobler derivative with a nice airfoil, elliptical wing, and specially contoured fuselage..

Peter White Plans has the “Venus” plan available......and many others!
https://sites.google.com/site/fullcircleflyers/home/plans

BYU · « **Reply #45 on:** April 27, 2018, 01:05:49 PM »

Bob Hunt's original OPS 40 Piped Crossfire. Or one of the many Ted Fancher planes (like the "Temptation")

Bob Hunt · « **Reply #46 on:** April 27, 2018, 01:29:15 PM »

Hi Eliott:

Thanks for the "vote." Attached here is a B&W photo of that Crossfire.

Later - Bob

BYU · « **Reply #47 on:** April 27, 2018, 02:21:16 PM »

Quote from: Bob Hunt on April 27, 2018, 01:29:15 PM

Hi Eliott:

Thanks for the "vote." Attached here is a B&W photo of that Crossfire.

Later - Bob

Stunning plane

Tom Luciano · « **Reply #48 on:** April 27, 2018, 02:41:38 PM »

20 + years later. flies like nothing other!

Bob Hunt · « **Reply #49 on:** April 27, 2018, 03:24:38 PM »

Quote from: Dave_Trible on April 27, 2018, 10:31:14 AM

Bob it’s neat to see that picture of Les’ Tropicaire. He was polishing that rascal in the work hanger at the Nats when I first met him. Really pretty! Milton that airplane- isn’t that the one Jose brought to the Team Trials last year? Not to compete but test fly. I think I launched it once. It looked like it was flying well.

Dave

BTW Bob- what about Gene’s Air Boss? Anything exist of it? I know it came apart in the air at the Nats in practice. Hardest turning thing I ever saw. It just couldn’t stand up to it forever.

Sigh... The Air Boss was another one of those ships that was "built on the wood." No plans exist. Both Gene and Bob had similar ships that year, and each of them pulled out all the stops (and the strength...) to keep them as light as possible. They weighed in at under 40 ounces! The Air Boss would be an easy one to draw if we had only one known dimension. The photos would suffice to allow an accurate reconstruction. They had what we called the "Super Wing." I cut them both (for the Air Boss and for Bob Lampione's Pisces), and still have those templates.

Attached here is a photo of Gene's Air Boss and Bob's Pisces. By the way, the name Air Boss refers to the guy who use to stand on a carrier deck and wave airplanes aboard. Gene took a lot of heat for that moniker...

Bob Hunt

PS: Ty Marcucci just messaged me that I was wrong about the duties of the Air Boss. He was a career Navy man, so he should know. Perhaps Ty will fill us in on the actual duties of the Air Boss (either way it was a dumb name for a stunt model...) - Bob