The Future of Control Line Flying

[Mike Griffin]

With the cancellation of what used to be well attended events and the continuing decline in attendance of those contest that for now are still being held, I wonder where our hobby is headed and if it will survive after an aging populous of participants passes on?

 I see us as a dying breed that will become extinct unless something unforeseen happens in the near future.  RC has become the behemoth in flying models and is where the young person goes for instant gratification of getting something in the air.  Very few participants in RC flying build their own models anymore or for that fact would even know how to do it. With the possible exception of free flight modelers, the control line enthusiasts are the last of the builders and there are very few younger ones who are learning the art of producing a beautiful and well performing model from scratch.

Add in the factor that the current pool of control line fliers are encountering more and more physical limitations that come with age and we have a formula for extinction of a wonderful hobby.  As we age it becomes more difficult to travel to contests and some like myself have developed physical limitations that come with age that prevent us from using movement necessary for the execution of keeping the plane in the air or even getting it off the ground.  Some control line hobbyist move to RC because it is physically much easier to sit or stand in one spot and control the plane.  You have to have a certain amount of dexterity to perform the pattern or for that matter just go around in a circle for 6 minutes.

With all this being said, what will be our future in control line flying?  Will it eventually pass into oblivion or will it hang on by a thread gasping for breath?  I wish I knew the answer.

Mike

[peabody]

Hi Mike...
All that you say is, sadly, true....
Interest in aviation in general amongst younger people has dwindled....without interest, there might not be any aero modeling.
I believe that there might be a bit of a glimmer of hope though, although I am not real happy about the circumstances, ......the R/C guys are liable to be so very restricted that people will discover control line as a viable way to enjoy model aviation....
The recent issue of MA is full of multi-rotor UAV's......sure to attract more and more attention of Homeland Security and the FAA......
The insistence of R/C fliers in creating ever larger models and computer assistance all add up to ever increasing efforts to curtail R/C flying.....

Have fun!

[Jim Thomerson]

I'm just finishing up my last control line airplane. I don't expect to be able to fly control line again.  I've been really enjoying watching the guys fly my airplanes, and have been fooling with sport free flight.  Next airplane will be RC.

I think we need to recognize our fairly rapidly shrinking numbers, and think about how to schedule contests and what events to have.  We need not to have competing contests. 

One thing I do, when going flying, is to take a trainer along.  Should someone show up, we can offer them some flights. 

[Dennis Saydak]

Enjoy what we can while we still have it. Sadly participation is dwindling in my area due to the passage of time with it's inevitable consequences. Also, other new interests replace the old ones as time goes by for the same reason.

[Duke.Johnson]

Well for us guys with broken backs and whatever, they do make that pilots chair for C/L fliers.  As a good friend of mine has on his shirt "NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER!".  Right Joe.

And as for C/L dying, don't tell that to my boys and Sam and his new Flight Streak.

I've seen guys coming back to C/L and kids getting into it and some 20ish R/C kids that I talk to really like C/L.  Sell it baby!

[Derek Barry]

Hopefully it will not die out. I think that it will take some work to keep it going but it will be well worth the effort.

I think that electric stunt will help bring back some numbers. The ease of use and relative similarity to some of the commercially available products like the "Air Hogs" RC planes and helicopters may make it easier for the novice to start flying. With a small electric trainer, a decent sized yard could be enough to fly and have fun. Like anything, not everyone is going to be a competitor but if we can get more people flying that odds are that some of them will want to compete. Fun events a contest and fun flies could help bring in a younger crowd. Bring back balloon bust and things of that nature.

The Joe Nall now having a dedicated control line section is going to make a big difference. Thousands of people will be exposed and invited to fly control line. THIS is how we will keep stunt alive. This year there will be special incentives for the young fliers too!!!

Derek

[Joe Just]

With the ever increasing problems between R/C and the Feds and State governments, this might be the dawn of a growing CL resurgence.  With the legality of 2.4 R/C systems in Carrier and Scale we are already drawing interest from some to once again give CL a try. I for one am unwilling to just roll over and say to heck with it all!
Joe
NGU-NS

(Never Give up-Never Surrender!)

[Tim Wescott]

Sell it baby!

Amen!

[Hoss Cain]

With the cancellation of what used to be well attended events and the continuing decline in attendance of those contest that for now are still being held, I wonder where our hobby is headed and if it will survive after an aging populous of participants passes on?

// SNIP//
 With all this being said, what will be our future in control line flying?  Will it eventually pass into oblivion or will it hang on by a thread gasping for breath?  I wish I knew the answer.

Mike

Yes Sir, Mr. Mike, I do believe you are 100% correct in your statements.  CL is now a way of the past and there is simply not enough activity to support an industry thereof. Most local hobby shops have no idea what CL means in the modeling world. Youngsters of today are only interested in "...keeping up with the Joneses."  In today's world that is still the way folks of under 50 years old live.

Now in CL I never see events that are called, "Fly-In, any model, etc."  "Fun Fly" can be just to gather a group for a day's flying. RC has MANY of such events. I have attended 3 this year, will attend one this Saturday and more as the season gets into full swing.
People come, pay the entry fee, sign on and maybe not even fly all day. My last one was just that for me, a SOCIAL DAY.
Real CL supporters always have been hard-core competitive. In RC competition there is a slowing of those competition events also. It is Social Structure that brings in the crowds. Two Fly-Ins that I attended this year had record turnouts and the other was not record but good, even though the weather was lousy.

I read through a post here in this forum stating a number of stunt contests biting the dust. Houston was not on the list but it is also canceled. STUNT is a hard-core competition event. Why does Joe Blo want to bother with it? Just read some of the communications on this forum especially ref. judging. Stunt judging seems to be the opinion of the judge, not necessarily the way a maneuver should be. What is that old saying?  "If you cannot do it then teach it!"   In many cases it seems that may also be "Judge It".  

One other bad thing about CL Events is that most are at least a 2-day event. RC competition events are mostly at least 2 days and many are 3-4 days. ONLY THE HARDCORE attend. A Saturday-only FUN event attracts many, mostly for the social activity.

So if CL fliers ( notice I said fliers not competitors) wish to prolong the sport, then some of the hard-core just might start looking at such Fly-Ins to get more attention. Then just maybe  start including, some mild stunt, balloon bust, an activity, whatever with mild requirements, but not a day of total competition. Lots of flying "what ya brung!", some instruction for beginners, let visitors get in the circle and do some hand-holding with a trainer type, Ringmaster types, etc.

Such days can include a swap-shop, raffles, and just flying for the fun of it or chasing a few models around the circle. Now AMA RC Rule, IIRC, 705 "Competition Fun Fly" is a source for many many events. CDs are encouraged to make up their own. CL CDs could well look into this event's rules and suggestions and come up with a number of ways to have some CL FUN.

[De Hill]

Hi Hoss,

Have you run any fun fly controline events, or are you just brainstorming?

De Hill

[Mark Scarborough]

Has anyone actually considered that perhaps,, maybe just,, our current economy may have something to do with dwindling attendance at contests?
( assuming that attendance is actually dwindling, and its not that the same poor people are getting tired of running the show,, or that people after 5 or 6 years of shrinking economy just cannot justify the money at the moment)

yes there are a lot of senior contestants,, and yes some are getting to a point they no longer wish to compete,, but I see new blood coming in as fast as the old goes out,, Not sure I can say its a one to one replacement, but there are new people coming in,,

[steven yampolsky]

People used to ride horses everywhere but that changed with advent of cars. We used to have horseback riding competitions every weekend too. Now, the number of competitions has dwindled to a couple of regional contests with predominantly older participants. Soon, they won't be able to get on a horse and this event will die off. Young kids do not like animals as much as they're used to. It seems that they would rather build and fly balsa stick models with really loud engine around in circles rather than build a lifelong relationship with a horse. In a few years, there will not be any horseback riding competitions left and the riding fields will be converted to circles for flying stinky model airplanes. We are the last of our kind.

[Bryan Higgins]

Mike

Everything was doing great till Electrics Came along.... ''Get a Fire Going"

[Duke.Johnson]

Amen!

Tim
Thanks for that plane.  My 13 year old is working on a new fuse.  He loves it.  He's going to make it look like his other shyray, just a different color.  That's a great way to get/keep the kids involved!

[Dave_Trible]

They were writing our obituary 25 years ago but we're still plugging along although we are getting thin these days.  On the competition side it's as aggressive as ever but with fewer on the local level.  Since the hobby shop fall out in the 70s and 80s it's been hard to get exposure. Radio was where the cash flow was for the industry so c/l got left behind.  But too we don't do some of the outreach we used to.  In earlier years we flew demos at air shows and other venues, we set up tables at a mall on the weekend in the winter.  We had trainers and advertised open- house training days. Maybe we could try some new outreach now with a few of these ideas.  Many are retired now and might have more time to help.  We might have co-workers,  the kid down the street or a nephew who might catch the fever. We will never be huge (again) but don't have to be.  Just a few newbies here and there would make some difference.  I hope we can turn our worries into actions to promote ourselves a little.  Maybe give of our time and stuff to make at least a little difference.  We can.  We should.

Dave

[Bob Reeves]

It will die with our generation, just not enough young folks to keep it going. Might be a few that will still fly CL but the first time only 10 show up at the natts it will be over.

[Trostle]

I will make a comment or two and then repeat my my post from another forum.

As has already been suggested.  Actually, people were complaining abut the "Junior problem" more than 25 years ago.  There were editorials in the model magazines about the Junior problem in the early 50's.  Yes, the numbers of young people at our contests continue to dwindle, but there is still a following.  Some young people will continue to get the spark of interest and pursue this, either being guided by some older modelers or just because the interest is naturally there. 

One other point, PAMPA membership can be tracked over the course of it existence on two things.  One is a viable newsletter and the people who have been responsible for maintaining this piece of work since Tom Morris took it over cannot be commended enough.  (This includes Tom Morris, Tom McClain and now the exemplary work of the seemingly tireless Bob Hunt.)  And it is my firm belief that PAMPA, through the Stunt News, has been singularly responsible for CLPA being the strongest supported CL event here in the US.  The other matter that can be a measure of active CLPA activity, as has already been suggested on this thread is the economy.  As the economy improves, so does PAMPA membership, contests increase, and participation in contests increase.

Now for an overall look, this taken from my comments in the other forum:

My thoughts on this are rather simplistic.  There will always be somebody, somewhere, that flies CL models.  There might be some lone person or some small pockets of enthusiasts in almost any place.  Similar to you can always find a small group in some cities that are really avid RC sailboaters.  And there are groups who do RC ships that delight in sinking other RC ships with their air cannons and ball bearings.

There used to be tethered race car tracks all over the country.  Now, I understand, there are two.  At least the one at Whittier Narrows has something going there almost on a monthly basis with an impressive group of enthusiasts and sophisticated equipment.

For now, our CL community far outnumber those other groups.

But then, one wonders for instance some experiences like in LA.  Picture Whittier Narrows with essentially good flying weather all year - 3 well maintained circles, room for at least 3 grass circles, easy access for 4 to 5 million people, nice day and a total of maybe 6 people have their models on the field.  Are those 6 people the only idiots from that 5 million population?  No.  They are keeping the spirit alive.

[Tim Wescott]

Consider also the arc that I experienced in my modeling life and that I see at a lot of RC flying fields:

Age 10: chuck gliders and wind-ups
Age 15: CL and RC (or video games and girls)
Age 20: college or new job and teeny apartment -- no time for planes
Age 25: New wife, new job, maybe new kid, cross-country moves -- no time for planes
Age 30: Wife, babies screaming, look at that bench piled high with "honey-doos" and a plane in the back.  Sigh
Age 35: "Hey, maybe that old kit still has all the pieces"
Age 40: "Wow!  There's a flying field within driving distance of the house!!"
Age 45: Kids are consuming little enough time that one can actually FLY
Age 50: Regular flying recommences.

Given that, if we want to do something and not just bitch about things, we need to do the following:

• Get as many kids as possible the "chuck glider" experience, or some handle time.  Any time a chance presents itself (which isn't often) I give kids a chance on the handle (even if they're turning 60 -- Tom).  If I were better, I'd hunt the little buggers down.  In fact, I think I'll make some chuck gliders to keep in my truck.
• Welcome interested adults.  Talk to them, explain what you're doing, tell them how to get into the hobby, etc.
• Don't sweat the fact that 99 out of 100 won't ever come back -- it's the one left over you care about.

[Eric Viglione]

They ought to institute a boy scout merit badge for bulding and flying a basic C/L plane, would be a better challange than going to the craft store and buying a pine block race car kit, and then there's the chance the kid could come back some day as an adult. With e-power, this could be do-able... (did I just say that?  LOL! ) Our club did a boyscout summer class build, and they did come out and fly them to get their badge. I have to admit, none ever came back, at least not here,  maybe elsewhere or eventually, who knows. My crystal ball is on the fritz, so I really can't predict much these days.

EricV

[Tim Wescott]

I have to admit, none ever came back, at least not here,  maybe elsewhere or eventually, who knows.

I have to admit that I may be reaching for my optimism here, but the story that I get from new members at our RC field is "I tried this years ago but I didn't have the money and/or time".

So -- what Eric said.  And what Larry Reniger does with his ET-1.  And don't get disappointed if no one immediately signs up to the club -- you're planting seeds, and they take time to grow.

[Mike Griffin]

I started the thread just to see how everyone might feel about the future of Control Line and every comment has merit and has stimulated some great conversation.  I do want to make a comment about what Hoss and Mark S. had to say.  I think Hoss has a great point about fun fly ins, balloon busts and the like.  I think a lot of would be CL flyers or beginners get a little intimidated when they come to a stunt contest and watch expert precision flying.  Maybe they think "wow I will never be able to do that" or maybe they think they do not want to compete at all.  Hoss's idea of doing something fun that the average Joe can relate to has a lot of merit to the non stunt minded person. I have never been to the NATS so it might be a different story but the stunt contests I attended in the past were attended by other stunt flyers and their spouses.  I saw very few folks off the street coming to watch.  

Mark was the only one who has brought up the economy and he has a very valid point.  I am sure that is a great deal of the problem right now.  Living on Social Security I know I no longer have the money to make these long trips to the events.  Gas, meals and lodging is a huge expense anymore and unaffordable for a lot of folks.  I have to budget to even buy balsa anymore.

I have always been a glass half full type person and I would hate to see control line pass into history but we are struggling right now.  I have more questions than I have answers but somehow we have to make this hobby affordable, fun and attractive to the non stunt oriented person who just wants to have some fun....I really am not worried about hard core stunt flyers...they will always find a way.

Mike

[Dennis Leonhardi]

Well, I'll repeat my response in "that other forum" -

To quote a popular song sung by Doris Day:

When I was just a child in school,
I asked my teacher, "What will I try?
Should I paint pictures"
Should I sing songs?"
This was her wise reply:

"Que sera, sera,
Whatever will be, will be;
The future's not ours to see.
Que sera, sera,
What will be, will be."

Life is too short to worry about it, Mike. If you want to insure that you’re at least “replaced”, one-for-one, grab a few neighbor kids and get them out. Invite them in to do some building. Maybe you’ll hook at least that one.

I wonder if you stopped to realize that you typed your comments and question at a computer - did you have one of those as a kid? I’m betting you wrote letters by hand, the “old-fashioned way” … My handwriting has gotten horrible, how’s yours?

The one thing we can be certain of in life is change. We can embrace it, we can try to be part of directing it, we can sit on the sidelines and deplore it, but we can’t stop it.

There will always be some of us crazies around. If we use RC to control our throttle and/or landing gear, will that be dumbing the hobby down?

And add a few thoughts -

We live in a very different age and society than when I first started.  When I was a kid, anything that flew over captured our attention.  From our small group of "boys", growing up and flying together in a town of perhaps 12,000 to 15,000 people, 3 or 4 became aero engineers.  One just retired last year - at the age of 70 - from a long and enjoyable career at Northrop-Grumman.  Another has owned 17 different airplanes to date, is an expert at painting them, and was a Fixed Base operator for several years.

We were mentored by adults who spent a lot of time with us.  I won 2 state championships in Senior-Open Combat (and the high point trophy as well on the 2nd occasion) at contests where I was driven and helped by mentors who didn't even compete themselves.  We had one car in the family; my dad needed to drive it for his work on Sundays; adult mentors recognized my passion for the hobby and competition and simply volunteered.  Are we doing that for kids today, or just wondering where they are?

I’ve surely made an effort … spending many, many hours with young men.  My ex-wife and I occasionally drove 2 cars to contests just to haul kids.  Perhaps one of my biggest thrills has been to see an aero engineer at Boeing, a Marine Corps pilot and an FAA traffic controller come out of that group; none of their fathers had any interest in airplanes.

Another young man I didn’t know from Adam - the nephew of my ex-wife’s co-worker - was invited to spend a week with us before a big contest.  He walked away with a ton of awards and merchandise certificates; later he enlisted in the Air Force and was tragically killed in a training accident.

Great programs, publicity, hoopla might generate interest - but, in my opinion, there is no substitute for simple one-on-one mentoring.

So put aside the hoopla for now, find a kid and mentor him!


Dennis
 

[RC Storick]

Here are my thoughts. In the 50 tys and 60 tys flight was cool. Breaking the sound barrier and going to the moon. All new stuff. Kids were interested. It grew and thrived for 20 years and then became old hat. Now with the electrics (and I know some hate it) things are new again. The people coming in can use their computers to program and tweak things. I have learend that there is a lot to learn about the future of this power system. I see from time to time people down grading this technology. Instead we should be embracing this and promoting anything to help us grow. Kids want to experiment. One reason I think its so important to build what you fly.

[Norm Furutani]

I've posted this before. So here's an update. Been flying CL at Whittier Narrows for a couple years. Since the park started to charge for entrance on weekends, we fly on Fridays. When I started there were maybe 4-5 guys show up, but now we have a regular dozen or more. Almost all retirees and maybe a couple guys taking extended lunches from work. Lots of new guys, or retreads. Some of us tried to fly when kids but never got the hang of it. I never got past a loop and maybe a lazy eight, heck I can almost do a recognizable square loop! We're having a blast, we have better motors, better planes and experienced guys to help.

Here's what I wrote before, and I think it's working!

Forget The Kids!
They'll do fine without us. I taught HS band for 30+ years. These kids are as sharp or sharper than we ever were. They have the patience and skill to master a musical instrument or a piece of equipment way beyond many of our abilities. Sure, expose them to the hobby, help them if they show interest, but we're never going to see 50 - 75 kids lined up waiting for a timer at the Nats!

A lot of us came from an era when we could take our Firebaby to the empty lot next door and fly til' dark. Today, how do you justify building a plane and then getting your folks to drive you 30 miles to a controline field (70 - 200 miles for FF!)? Kids want something they can do everyday, not once a month and that's something we wanted and did when we were young.

How can we help our hobby? What's been the driving economic force for the last fifty/sixty years? The Baby Boomer's. From Howdy Doody, the Ford Mustang, SUV's, fast food, you name it. It's been geared to this generation and whats happening to them now? - they're retiring. They have money, transportation, time and desire - the best part? They remember that Firebaby they flew as kid!

A lot of them are flying R/C. Join the local R/C club and show your ukie. Build an electric and fly it in your local park. Ask if you can display a U/C in the local big box hobby/toy store (instead of complaining they don't carry stunt fuel). Post your club info on the bulletin board.

When the guy shows up at the field, say hello, answer his questions, stick a handle in his hands - keep Mr. Negativeknowitall away from this guy.

BTW , even if the guy is an R/C'er, you can help them. It's about model planes.

My 2cents

- Norm Furutani, AMA 9408

[Dennis Leonhardi]

Robert, I will never understand why any of us put down another with a different approach, method or skill set.  There are darn few of us!!!

A prime example is the builder who puts down anyone flying an ARF.  Cripes, is it better that the guy doesn't fly at all!?!

Here we are addressing the possible extinction of our hobby?  Geez, welcome everyone!


Dennis
 

[Mike Griffin]

I realize that this is a "STUNT" forum which is a form of control line flying.  There is also flying for fun or "SPORT FLYING" Combat, racing, Carrier.  etc etc.  Are we thinking of a way to save Stunt only or all forms of control line flying?  Contests are great and the NATS has it all, but, and this is a huge but, do we just concentrate on how to save Stunt or Control Line flying as a WHOLE?  Stunt is a form of Control Line flying but there is much much more at stake here....

Mike

[John Stiles]

May be time to start a directory of flying locations and people who fly there. Might open up new opportunities to visit others nearby that still fly C/L. Here's my flying fields everyone welcome! Google 4584 Hwy 9

[Dave_Trible]

May be time to start a directory of flying locations and people who fly there. Might open up new opportunities to visit others nearby that still fly C/L. Here's my flying fields everyone welcome! Google 4584 Hwy 9

John I think you get flying weather there months before we do here in KC.  May take you up on it next winter to come down over a weekend and fly some. I've thought about doing that for several years but didn't know where to go. Maybe work into a stop at Roaring River to do some trout fishing.

Dave

[Dick Pacini]

I think the dwindling number of local hobby shops has been both a cause and effect of the decline of C/L.  I have none in my area and even those 100 miles away are either craft stores, model trains or R/C cars with a few R/C ARF's.  Understandably, a retail establishment has to meet the wants and needs of its clientele.  Mention model airplanes and most people think R/C.  There is an active R/C club in my town that has its own flying field right next to a major route.  Next door is a hang gliding hill and field.  Even with the R/C exposure, there are no hobby shops around.  My guess is that the R/C guys use internet stores for their stuff or drive the 100 miles.

[RknRusty]

I still have hope for the sport. I started flying at age twelve in the late '60s and like Tim said, college and all the associated distractions, wife and screaming kid, etc. curtailed my flying. But I did teach my son to fly and now that he's graduated college and moved away. I re-kindled my CL hobby. Mostly with the help of forums and guys like Jim Thomerson and many others at RCG who gladly gave me more knowledge than I would have ever learned on my own. In fact I just wrote an article about that for Bernie at Cox International to publish in his Cox Engines Quarterly newsletter coming out in May. And there are some really enthusiastic newcomers to CL over at the fledgling coxengineforum.com. Some really skilled guys including Ken Cook are helping us out. Duke Johnson is over there, and I'm sure I'll run into others here too.

When I first joined the forums over there and found the CL section, I was about the only one posting new threads and so spent most of my time tapping the guys in the 1/2A RC section. But now, a few years later there are usually more people showing as logged into the CL forum than the 1/2A forum. I can only hope that's a good sign.

I'm building a Kitty Cat plane for my 9 yr old neighbor, based on an Osborne platter, and she's bulldogging me to finish it. A future engineer I believe. I'm as excited about it as she is. And I flew a wild freestyle stunt exhibition with my Baby Streak in the small field across the street for our new neighbors with their 5 year old this past weekend. I didn't think they would ever run out of questions after I was finished, gave Dad the tour of my shop and all. So I'll try to do my Scout's duty and keep the hobby alive.

I found this forum after seeing Derek Barry's Matrix in the PAMPA mag that a club friend gave me. I had to know more about that beautiful machine. Imagine that, a whole forum dedicated to CL. I joined SSW about the same time since I know so many members over there.

Rusty

[Matt Colan]

Here at Embry-Riddle, I have created a good amount of exposure with Control-line.  Most people that hadn't seen one fly thought it was just a plane tied to a string.  When I pulled out inverted on the reverse wingover, I heard a, "holy sh*t!" come from the people watching me fly.  One of my friends was disappointed when I told him I had already oiled up the engine, took the prop off and put the plane in the workshop for the summer.  He wanted to see it fly again.

Next semester, since I am the treasurer to the RC club on campus, I am planning on ordering a Flight Streak and LA 25 to throw together and teach the guys down here who want to learn how to fly CL. The president of the RC club lives just north of Pittsburgh, and I believe him and his dad will take a day off and go to Carmichaels to watch a day of CL flying at Brodak.

Helping out wherever I can! Hate to see this hobby die off

[mike londke]

I'm growing my own here in Nashville with my boy. Baby sister Emma will get a taste too in a couple more years. Now if i could just get my wife to try it..........  Mike

[Andrew Tinsley]

It really is a no brainer that C/L is a dwindling pastime. Does it really matter? Those of us that can still fly, will carry on. There will be the odd newcomer, but it will die at some stage. The really important thing is that we enjoy it while we can.
How many people fly old sparkers these days? Not many, but those that do enjoy it every bit as much as in bygone days. Just enjoy it while you can and why worry about the lack of a future.

Andrew.

[Joseph Lijoi]

These are very good days to be involved with stunt.  With electrics, the cottage industry, ARFs etc good performance is more attainable than ever.  Fortunately for stunt we use mufflers and are moving forward with electrics and a lot of other things that make stunt friendly.  In other words, most RC fields have no problem having an area for a guy flying a Flite Streak with a muffled engine on it.  So as long as there are model airplanes there will be stunt.  Carrier might be a different issue.

As far as stunt goes just be more inclusive and not have a bad attitude about electrics ARFs etc.  On the competetition front it may be wise to consider revamping classes or rules.  There is a lot of competeition for the free time dollar because there is less free time and apparently less dollars.

Keep it somewhat friendly and reasonable, keep an open mind and you might be surprised.

[Avaiojet]

Robert, I will never understand why any of us put down another with a different approach, method or skill set.  There are darn few of us!!!

A prime example is the builder who puts down anyone flying an ARF.  Cripes, is it better that the guy doesn't fly at all!?!

Here we are addressing the possible extinction of our hobby?  Geez, welcome everyone! Dennis

I will never understand why any of us put down another with a different approach, method or skill set.  There are darn few of us!!!

 

Really? You don't know why?? Well I sure do.  

Gotta keep something in mind.  Once the fun is gone so is the hobby.  R/C is fun, lots of fun with lots of great people. So R/C attracts. That's why the "industry" is making an investment in it. Comon sense? Logic 101? Gee.

Imagine!

Imagine,

If I was a Rep or in R&D for a Company that wanted to make an investment in the CL industry.

Imagine,

That I joined SS and SH, just to get a feel of the invironment. To get a handle, as to what is going on with the hobby, simply by reading modeler's posts in Threads.

Imagine.

Charles



Edit for spelling error.

[pat king]

I plan to keep making kits as long as someone wants them and I am able to do so. I am not a competitive flyer and never was, these days I have bad vertigo problems. I still get a kick out of flying a C/L airplane even if someone else has to take it after 15 or 20 laps.
Our club has a contest that includes Stunt, Speed, Scale, Carrier, and Racing. We have a 1/2A Contest that includes Stunt and Racing. We have a "Family Day" where everyone is encouraged to come out and bring whatever C/L airplane you have.
I hope it doesn't happen, but R/C seems to be trying to get itself regulated out of existence.

Pat

[Mark Scarborough]

 

Really? You don't know why?? Well I sure do.  

Gotta keep something in mind.  Once the fun is gone so is the hobby.  R/C is fun, lots of fun with lots of great people. So R/C attracts. That's why the "industry" is making an investment in it. Comon sense? Logic 101? Gee.

Imagine!

Imagine,

If I was a Rep or in R&D for a Company that wanted to make an investment in the CL industry.

Imagine,

That I joined SS and SH, just to get a feel of the invironment. To get a handle, as to what is going on with the hobby, simply by reading modeler's posts in Threads.

Imagine.

Charles



Edit for spelling error.

Charles,,
while YOU may feel that way,,
this forum is FAR and away less poison that any of the RC forums I have been on,,
RC is supported because of volume and return on the dollar, NOT because of a few people who enjoy stirring things up on a forum,,
control line is fun, I dare say there is not anyone on here who does not enjoy it,, or they would not be here,,

[Mike Griffin]

Pat that is great that your club does that and that you have enough active members to make activities like that worthwhile. New Orleans does not have the population it once did before Katrina but it is still a fair sized city.  I think we have maybe 6 people who fly in our club and not all of them fly regularly.   We have done Delta Dart nights with the Scouts on two occassions that I know of and have not had one of them show any further interest. 

Control line flying is a lot of fun and I would hate to see it fade away and I think as a group we can come up with ideas that will at least prolong the hobby for a number of years but attrition is taking its toll.

Mike

[Bob Hudak]

If there were a small ready to fly electric control line plane like Cox and Testors used to make back in the 60's and 70's kids might just find that spark of interest to give them enjoyment in a possible lifelong hobby. Cox started me down the road of control line with the gas power.

[Hoss Cain]

Hi Hoss,

Have you run any fun fly controline events, or are you just brainstorming?

De Hill

Mr. De Hill, at this time, in all honesty, I guess that I am brainstorming. Good way to define it!  However in my 50 years as a Contest Director, which the first 10 years was CL and some FF, I have simply had to gather some experience in this  toy airplane world. In the late '60s and early '70s there was a lot of CL competition in the Chicago, IL area. I was there at most events. Many clubs offered a balloon burst or such in their events. That brought on folks that did NOT fly stunt, combat, or scale racing.
My last real CL effort was at the 1973 Oshkosh Nats where I was Man Power Director and  Assistant CL Director.  After that I was mostly into RC.
RC aerobatics and such was not my thing, but I ran a number of events for the Slylarks RC Club mostly Pylon Racing and FUN FLY events. When I moved back to the REPUBLIC, 1982, I was totally RC. While I flew some CL every so often, I was not other that just getting dizzy now and then. I still love the CL model airplane. Have some and can fly 60ft lines in my backyard,
My RC contest flying waned away as the Fly-In and Fun-Fly just seemed to be my way of going. Work took up time, but a bunch of grandkids take up MORE time. 
Therefore with my long time experience in many different model activities, I barnstorm to the point that if the CL Stunt/Whatever, wants CL to not simply disappear, then I think the Leaders need to venture into something other than CL Stunt and who can find the most coats-of-paint on a copy of last year's Nats Winner. "Git muh drift thar Ol Pard?"
Mr. Brodak cannot do it all by himself. The Nats people are looking at far more items not concerned with CL. On the local level, CL folks need to get into developing CL interest and display their wares.  The hobby distributors and the magazine publishers are not going to do it for you.
Jetero RC Club (www.jetero.com) has already sanctioned an event for AMA's National Model Airplane Day, in August. I am thinking I will have a CL circle and airplanes that day. Ya'll come see us, ya' hear!

[Dennis Moritz]

People like RC. It leaves me cold. I have tried the sticks a few times. The disconnect between myself and the airplane made it feel as the name says, remote. Arfs and Arcs are a convenience, useful when time's not there to build. I never like flying an ARF as much as I like flying a home build. Even when the home build is less sophisticated. I am told that most of RC these days is the flying of ARFs. Another reason that hobby is unattractive to me. Control Line is a personal experience. The plane as it maneuvers is felt in the handle. The engine is near enough to hear and sense, also an involvement. Listening to that engine, figuring what's happening with it, is part of honing our skills. At least with IC. Every good CL flyer I know is to some extent an engine man as well as a flyer. Folks flying electric also have their power package process, I'm sure. Needing to adjust this and that. RC folks do much less tuning. Right.  As far as friendly relationships and actual friendships-- I've plenty of friends in our small world. Lots of people I like and have come to know over the years. We are an anachronistic lot. People who enjoy working with their hands. People who like trouble shooting, figuring things out for ourselves. We are people who value craftsmanship. These are qualities incompatible with the current obsession with virtual representations, instead of the thing itself.

[john e. holliday]

What a mess.   Look at the over all modelling spectrum as far as competition.   In free flight there was usually two to three contests each month during flying weather.   RC Pattern used to be a contest every weekend almost within driving distance, same with Pylon Racing.   I remember when I started to attend contests for control line there was a contest each weekend that summer.   It may have been combat, rat race and stunt.  Either one or two or all three.  I think scale was held at on or two.   The fall came around and no  contest, go to the field and no flyers.   Asked where everyone was at and response was they are working on next years competition planes.  The following year the weekends in which was deemed to far to drive we had fun flies or getogethers.  A couple were with families and a picnic.  Then I too got tired of going to the circle and no one there and started doing other things.   Finally after getting married,  I got back with the Sky Devils and the fun started again with family and picnic.  As usual competition took over and the fun fly guys/gals did not like us taking up the circle practicing our racing or carrier.  So started flying during the week and saturdays when no one was around.   Oh I tried early one spring to start a CL group at KCK City Park and had aboud 6 or 8 would come an fly,  But after the first weekend I took off to go to a contest, all but two quit coming out to fly.  Then my job got in the way working all shifts, traveling to schools and no weekends off.

So I just gave up after the last stint of trying to get someone to fly with.   I know Dave you fly on Thursdays at your site and I have been lazy in not joining you.   My bad.

[Dave_Trible]

Actually John it could be any random days I'm out there.  Example: last week off Tuesday and Sunday, this week Monday/Friday, next week Tues/Wed. so better check with me or you might be there alone.  Will be rain and low 40s Friday I hear so will stay home this week. 

Dave

[john e. holliday]

Daughter says we are supposed to have snow.   

[Doug Moon]

I didn’t start flying until I was in my early 20s.  I had seen it some as a kid and my brother and his friends had some .049 Cox RTF kits they bashed on for a while but they are 6 years older than me.  When they left to go fly I was still at home. 

Those days are gone and they are not coming back. 

Balloon bust CL fun flys are going to be filled with 95% of the competitors that fill the stunt contest scene today.  The reason it works for RC is due to the size of the RC population.  Somewhere in the 80s-90s when the ARFs started coming onto the scene it spawned a huge addition of weekend fliers and occasional participants.  People who could learn to fly and keep it as a “time to time” hobby.  You didn’t have to build your own plane to get in the air and have some fun.  You didn’t have to spend so much time at it and still be able to participate in the hobby.  This was and is a good thing.  Then someone somewhere along the way realized there was this huge population out there that has no interest competition but is interested in weekend flying for fun and meeting new people and talking airplanes with like minded individuals…..  The “Fun Fly” BOOM was born, or maybe it started earlier but sure seems like it took on a whole new meaning around that time.  People can come and fly as much as they want and can see all different forms of modeling.  There are competition demos and new product demos and so on. RC had this huge community of weekend participants just waiting to attend something other than a contest where they aren’t going to compete.  Or they didn’t want to drive 100s of miles to get one or two flights and then drive back.  We in CL don’t have that huge community just waiting in the wings to come out and fly.

In the late 90s, my brother and I were invited to fly a demo flight at an RC Fun Fly event here in Dallas.  It was awesome!  My brother and I each flew a pattern right in the middle of the event off the main runway and we were well accepted.  Lots of questions from the younger crowd along with “I didn’t know planes on strings could do that.”  And “I used to do that when I was kid” from the old timers.   The guys who love to talk and meet people and rarely have a plane to fly.  It is fun to hear their stories. The social aspect of the fun fly event is very appealing.
 
I didn’t know it then but I think we were exposed to what could be one of the saving movements of CL, the RC Fun Fly.   The Joe Nall will expose 1000s of people to control line in a week.  The EAA Kid Venture program has been doing the same thing for several years.  The promising aspect of this is that the people being exposed are already model aviation enthusiast or at least have enough interest in it to go to these large events and take part.  I am not saying we should be trying convert RC enthusiast to CL.  What I am saying is we should try to expose CL to them any chance we have.  The chances of it sticking with someone who is already a model enthusiast are much greater than pulling in someone off the street who has no idea where to start.  And will be detoured to the park flyer once they hit the local HobbyTown.  Or when they go online and have a look around they find nothing about what we do and everything RC related one could want and more.

Yep, the RC Fun Fly.  Concentrated efforts there can show the avid RC competitor and the general RC sport flyer that CL is and can be BIG TIME FUN!!!  It is can be as technical as you want or as simple as you want it to be.
 
Forum squabbling won’t scare them off either.  They are used to it on their forums too.

My wife has her 40th Birthday coming up.  The other day I asked her if she wanted to go to SC for any reason what so ever.  She looked sideways at me and said…”why……?”  I launched into how awesome the scenery is there and how nice it is and it would a great get away to a little place called The Triple Tree Aerodrome.  She stopped me right there laughing and said “uh… no. We are not doing planes on my birthday trip… “   If I could swing it I would be there in a NY minute!!   It’s going to be awesome!  The facilities will be nothing less than fantastic.  I think about it all the time.  Endless flights over perfectly manicured circles with so many people around looking in wanting to know more.  Helping people get their first taste of holding onto the plane as it flys.  Also, I would love to wonder around that place and see what else is going in other forms of aviation modeling.  The night event looks awesome in the pictures. I would love to see that.  And wouldn’t it look cool to put LEDs on a CL plane and put a slow shutter speed camera outside the circle and capture some of the maneuvers??!!  I think so.  I am so jealous of those who get to participate in this event, work it and fly it.  I truly think this and others like it are we should be focusing our efforts to get more exposure for CL.

[Bradley Walker]

It will die with our generation, just not enough young folks to keep it going. Might be a few that will still fly CL but the first time only 10 show up at the natts it will be over.

This...

Not just controlline is going to die...  The world is changing exponentially now...  People barely leave their houses in general...  The young are content to watch reality TV, play video games, and post on facebook...

There is literally nothing that can be done to save the dying past.  IMHO.

[john e. holliday]

It's never too late.   Only the pessimists disagree.

[EddyR]

 Some people won't like this but here is the truth about my area.Yesterday at the Huntersville field Don and I flew 10-12 flight between us. Some times Alex shoes up but he is a Nascar pilot and has a busy schedule. There is one other guy who is some times there but he is so disagreeable we rather not see him. The club has a meeting there maybe 5-6 times a year and most of them don't fly anymore.  There were 10 guys flying RC and they admitted they were bored with it. For three hours all I saw was a lot of hovering. Lets face it CL flying is BORING to most people. They walk away before your flight is done. There has been a resurgence of Carrier and Combat at the Huntersville contest for the last few years but it is the same 8-12 people who show up and most of them did the event in the past.Model aircraft is not a inexpensive hobby and parents have to have a interest for Junior to get to the field. I bet not more than 40 people out of the 1,000.000+ who live in the Charlotte area know that there is a place to fly CL near Charlotte. Watt Moore has spent a lot of time trying to get kids interested in CL flying. He has supplied everything to them free and not one comes back. Lets just face it and enjoy it while we can and stop complaining about all the things other are not doing to bring CL back.
Ed

[Doug Moon]

This...

Not just controlline is going to die...  The world is changing exponentially now...  People barely leave their houses in general...  The young are content to watch reality TV, play video games, and post on facebook...

There is literally nothing that can be done to save the dying past.  IMHO.

You will be happy to know that there are 5 kids on my street that are under the age of 11, three of them are mine.  And they live outside!  When I get home in the evening I usually can hear at least 2 of mine and 2 others from down the street doing something in our backyard.  Ours backyard wraps around to the front so its easy to go back to front and mess around.  Then after dinner its right back outside on the bikes or shooting baskets or playing soccer until sun down.  I am usually out there dominating the third graders on the 8' basketball rim!  It's fun to feel tall!    Or chasing the kids with my RC car.   Brushless Castle Creations motor has made it very fast.

It is a battle to get them outside sometimes, the Wii, Xbox, and DS games have their allure but we only allow a certain amount if screen time each day then it's out you go!!  We are doing our best to keep ours outside using their minds to make up games figure things on their own and have fun!!

[Dennis Leonhardi]

You will be happy to know that there are 5 kids on my street that are under the age of 11, three of them are mine.  And they live outside!  When I get home in the evening I usually can hear at least 2 of mine and 2 others from down the street doing something in our backyard.  Ours backyard wraps around to the front so its easy to go back to front and mess around.  Then after dinner its right back outside on the bikes or shooting baskets or playing soccer until sun down.  I am usually out there dominating the third graders on the 8' basketball rim!  It's fun to feel tall!    Or chasing the kids with my RC car.   Brushless Castle Creations motor has made it very fast.

It is a battle to get them outside sometimes, the Wii, Xbox, and DS games have their allure but we only allow a certain amount if screen time each day then it's out you go!!  We are doing our best to keep ours outside using their minds to make up games figure things on their own and have fun!!

That's good Doug, keep it up!

My situation is pretty unusual - I'll be 73 in July; my (youngest) son just celebrated his 10th birthday.  He would almost live outside if he could, and I encourage it any way I can.  He gets home from school at 4 pm; I generally allow him to play outside until about 7, when we eat.  Last night after supper he insisted we go out again and I pitch to him for a bit, as we have several days in a row.  He probably has no idea what a "reality show" is.

I have for many years kept a couple of boxes of "gliders" - balsa, foam, simple rubber-powered airplanes, Delta Darts - in my garage.  The neighbor kids know they're welcome to ring the doorbell almost any time and ask to fly them.  I keep on hand a supply of Delta Dart kits, and many of our neighbor kids and friends have been invited in to build them.

Yes, we live in a changing world.  Sixty years ago, I could probably tell you most any day the current altitude and speed record, and probably name the pilot(s).  My son is most interested in when we'll land a man on Mars.  We can't change that; I have no desire to do so.

But, before we bemoan the lack of interest in anything aviation related, we need to ask ourselves what we're doing to keep the flame burning.  Driving 10 miles out of town to a flying field won't expose many in most cases, nor will a one-time chance at the handle.  Good old one-on-one mentoring will never be replaced.

Dennis
 


"Change is the law of life.  And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future." - John F. Kennedy