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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Warren Walker on December 23, 2015, 05:26:03 PM
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I hope this doesn't sound like a stupid question.
As the earth rotates, at what point does the weather and things like con trails in the atmosphere stop rotating with the planet.
Or do you need to be in absolute space?
W.W.
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Absolute space. Merry Christmas!
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I hope this doesn't sound like a stupid question.
As the earth rotates, at what point does the weather and things like con trails in the atmosphere stop rotating with the planet.
Or do you need to be in absolute space?
W.W.
Guessing here but I'd say that the air mass about the earth moves generally "with" the planet as it rotates...as its mass makes the atmosphere a part of it...and and makes more modest moves "about" the earth in response to pressure variations, i.e. high to low pressure etc. It's the pressure variations that cause winds and along with moisture content, temperature and orographic variations are the makers of storms.
Somebody else can take a stab at the jet stream. I just know it's either a bane or a bonus depending on whether your jet is going east or west within it!
Ted
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I'm not sure retirement is good for you Warren. I think you need to get a hobby like building planes or something.
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As Ted said, essentially the atmosphere rotates with the Earth at all times regardless of latitude. Winds are just slight local variations. Where the rotation does have an obvious effect is with hurricanes/cyclones/typhoons which are all the same thing but given different names around the world. Their direction of rotation is caused by the Earth's rotation and the Coriolis force.
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I hope this doesn't sound like a stupid question.
As the earth rotates, at what point does the weather and things like con trails in the atmosphere stop rotating with the planet.
It's not stupid, but if the clouds were fixed in inertial space they would be whizzing westward at 800-ish MPH.
Here's a movie that shows the clouds are essentially fixed WRT the earth. This was from the "MESSENGER" spacecraft as it passed by Earth for a gravity assist on its way to Mercury.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMIflnNQrkQ
Brett
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Hope these pictures post. Looking South West from Henderson NV.
Below the Moon are Contrails also. These are way up there. Not much wind to distort them. Juts a heavy concentration in that piece of the sky...
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(http://fas.org/irp/imint/docs/rst/Sect14/FIG07_006.jpg)
http://scied.ucar.edu/shortcontent/global-look-moving-air-atmospheric-circulation
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I'm not sure retirement is good for you Warren. I think you need to get a hobby like building planes or something.
That's funny, Bill! But still, it's nice to be able to vocalize, amongst friends, somewhat random thoughts that have us wondering.....
Plus we have plenty of smart guys around who can actually articulate an answer we can understand (thanks, Brett). H^^
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That's funny, Bill! But still, it's nice to be able to vocalize, amongst friends, somewhat random thoughts that have us wondering.....
Plus we have plenty of smart guys around who can actually articulate an answer we can understand (thanks, Brett). H^^
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My thoughts exactly, This forum has some of the most brilliant minds you could assemble in one place.
To quote the great comic Red Buttons " sometimes I feel like the world is a tuxedo and I'm a pair of brown shoes.
W.W.
P. S. I have had a dinner.
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That's funny, Bill! But still, it's nice to be able to vocalize, amongst friends, somewhat random thoughts that have us wondering.....
Plus we have plenty of smart guys around who can actually articulate an answer we can understand (thanks, Brett). H^^
Very flattering, but I just know *different* stuff from other people, not necessarily more.
Brett
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It stands to reason that, with the type of minds on this forum, things like would come up. I am surprised we don't see more things like this-I guess bandwidth restrictions.
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Or do you need to be in absolute space?
If Einstein's right (and there's no evidence yet that he was wrong) there is no absolute space -- the closest you can come to that is the inertial frame of reference, which is what Brett was talking about.
There really isn't a well-defined end to the atmosphere -- it just gets thinner and thinner. Even "low earth orbit" is rather arbitrary, and there's enough gas at that altitude to cause drag and orbital decay -- but even at that point it's still traveling with the earth's surface. I think it's a good question -- I'd like to know at what point things don't rotate with the earth any more. It's probably fairly far up there.
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The "things" that rotate with the earth are molecules of one sort of gas or another. As long as there are molecules, they will rotate. At some point away from the earth, no molecules exist. You can't say that "nothing rotates there", because the definition of "nothing" is exactly that!
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The "things" that rotate with the earth are molecules of one sort of gas or another. As long as there are molecules, they will rotate. At some point away from the earth, no molecules exist. You can't say that "nothing rotates there", because the definition of "nothing" is exactly that!
I think it stops rotating when the mean free path is long enough to treat the gas molecules as individual particles, which isn't all that high. The thermal motion and the solar radiation, charged particle, and electrostatic effects drive the motion.
Brett
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Then Wings Whip Lash was right. There is no such thing as gravity. Thee earth sucks. If it didn't the clouds would go by 800 mph as Brett said, and we would all be thrown off into space. IF the earth traveled any faster or slower we would either be thrown off or weight much more than we do. But, since the earths speed is constant, and its suction is also constant we weigh about the same at sea level. Six monts ago I coodn't even speel rockt scitentist, Now I are won.
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Jim is right! I don't trust gravity. That's why I always hold on to something. I'm sure not going to get caught without an anchor so I don't get flang up into space.
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I showed this to my wife and she said it is going to be a long winter. As such, if you are driving down the hiway at 60 mph, and a fly fly's from the back seat to the front seat is he flying over 60 mph? I would have to say yes. At least ground speed. If a tree falls in the woods -----------
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I used to ride public transit to work and had wondered... If I had a micro heli hovering in the aisle when the bus was stopped but when the bus accelerated to 40mph would my heli remain static in relationship to my seat or would it get slammed on the rear wall of the bus? I know the air column within the bus moves in conjunction with the bus or I'd feel a breeze whenever we accelerated. Depends whether the bus is completely closed or totally open (no windshield, side and back windows down).
I used to race sailboats on Puget Sound where you can run into strong currents. The current was always strongest in the middle of the channel because bottom friction would slow the current as the water got shallower toward shore.
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Don't be too sure on what is going on in the bus. For instance, if you have a helium filled balloon tethered by a string floating in the middle of the bus and you brake hard, does the balloon go forward, go backward, or stay in the same place? Most people think it will move forward, because they tend to feel that force on their bodies. Others think it stays in the same place, because they perceive the air to be static. But if you actually do the experiment, you will find the balloon moves toward the rear of the bus when you brake. This is because the ballon is lighter than air, and the heavier air moves forward, while the lighter air moves to the rear. But you ask how can some air be heavier than other air? Well some air is warmer than other air....
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I believe Al Einstein covered that question long ago. something about riding a train, and seeing people standing at the train station. "Relativity", or something.
Floyd
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Jet Streams are partially created by the Earths rotation are they not?
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I used to ride public transit to work and had wondered... If I had a micro heli hovering in the aisle when the bus was stopped but when the bus accelerated to 40mph would my heli remain static in relationship to my seat or would it get slammed on the rear wall of the bus?
Because it's denser than air it would tend to fly toward the front of the bus when the bus stopped. Robert's helium balloon would go to the back of the bus because (according to Einstein!!!) that's "higher" when you're stopping, and the balloon is so big and light that it pretty much does what the air column "tells" it to do rather than acting inertially like a dense little mini-heli.
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here is the balloon thing from Smarter Every Days youtube channel
https://youtu.be/y8mzDvpKzfY
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It sounds like you fellas have your Wondering Electrons & Wondering cells functioning ... also take note that when I fly my plane with the Big Stalker it slows the earths rotation. My wife says she can feel it. She sends a text when she feels the earth return to normal speed & it jives with my flights at the field.
This really does happen, John
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because (according to Einstein!!!) that's "higher" when you're stopping, and the balloon is so big and light that it pretty much does what the air column "tells" it to do rather than acting inertially like a dense little mini-heli.
I think Big Al learned that one from Archimedes, and Newton came around 1700 years later to clean up the math. It certainly doesn't involve anything that Einstein came up with personally.
Everybody here probably understands the same principle, if they understand how wedge stunt tanks work.
Brett