The cost of running Stunt Hangar

[RC Storick]

This is a letter I got from ZOOM. Our hangouts

Hi ROBERT,

We hope you’re enjoying everything that your Zoom One Pro Plan has to offer. We want to let you know of an upcoming price change to your Zoom subscription. Zoom is committed to continually innovating our products and delivering value to our customers.

The price of your Zoom One Pro plan will increase by $10 to $159.90 a year/user - this nets out to just $0.83 a month for all that the Pro Annual plan has to offer! The new price will take effect with your next renewal cycle.

Zoom One Pro empowers you to take control of your communications with advanced collaboration tools and features, including newly launched Zoom Clips Plus and Zoom Notes, Zoom Team Chat, Essential Apps, Zoom Whiteboard, Cloud Recording Storage, Zoom Mail & Calendar, and more.

Please note that this price increase does not affect the price of your other subscriptions. Your payment method on file will be charged the new price at your next renewal cycle. Please visit your billing portal to make changes to your services or cancel.

The contest season starts at the end of the month in Iniania (Dennis's contest) and I will begin streaming there and following Brodaks. I need the support for the Bandwith and don't forget I will stream the NATS.

Please help me keep Stunt Hangar alive by donating here

[RC Storick]

Well, I see where it is going. 122 views and not one response.

[Mike Morrow]

Hi Robert,
Is this over and above what the annual support donations cover?

Mike

Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk

[944_Jim]

Mr. Robert,
Is the ZOOM feature a required component or sub-set of features required for the forum?

I know sometimes "not spending up" or cost-cutting is inevitable. I'd love a Lincoln, but I settled for a Ford.

Respectfully.

[RC Storick]

Hi Robert,
Is this over and above what the annual support donations cover?

Mike

Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk

Every year we run short on covering costs and since the start of Stunt Hangar, I have covered the over cost when I was working. The Zoom and Banwith are extra.

[Mike Morrow]

Thanks for the explanation

Mike

Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk

[Ken Culbertson]

Well, I see where it is going. 122 views and not one response.

Don't despair.  I have over 100,000 views on my build thread and about 5 responses.  I'll drop another small donation into the mix.  I know how much you must hate fundraising.  Lately the forum seems to have become the EBay of Stunt motors.  The lively discussions on flying and building just aren't there anymore.  I wish that the community as a whole would realize that being spread out over too many forums means that we don't have enough in one place for anyone to survive.

Ken

[Kafin Noe’man]

Donation sent!

Thanks Sparky

[the original Steve Smith]

Donation Sent.

Thanks for keeping it going!

[wwwarbird]

  The lively discussions on flying and building just aren't there anymore. 

 Building and flying discussion on this forum took a huge downturn soon after Sparky himself stopped posting here and started putting all his stuff on YouTube. Ever since the YouTube move building content has gradually continued going downhill here on the forum. I really miss seeing Sparky's building content here and don't care to tune into the YouTube alternative. I would MUCH rather pick through content that interests me here. I guarantee that over time the YouTube change has taken away a lot inspiration for other builders on this forum, I'm one of them. I've mentioned this being an issue multiple times ever since, the YouTube move has been a great way to take significant attention away from this forum. I hate to say it but it's a self inflicted problem.

[RC Storick]

The downturn of this forum has nothing to do with YouTube. The downturn is caused by some of the members here starting Farcebook threads and other sites. I will tell you this when you spread it out over many venues there will not be enough to keep one of them open and I can not compete with the US government-operated Life Log (AKA Farcebook)

[Gordon Tarbell]

Robert please send me a PM with current address to send a donation check to and how you want it made out to. as I do not do the paypal or zell type stuff.

[wwwarbird]

The downturn of this forum has nothing to do with YouTube. The downturn is caused by some of the members here starting Farcebook threads and other sites. I will tell you this when you spread it out over many venues there will not be enough to keep one of them open and I can not compete with the US government-operated Life Log (AKA Farcebook)

 Seriously Sparky, and let this be clear, I'm not trying to start any sort of a pi--ing match here. Also, what I'm trying to get across here has nothing to do with facebook and never has. I'm just pointing out that the absence of you posting your projects here ever since you started your YouTube thing has significantly taken away from the overall amount of quality building content being posted on this forum. No offense to anyone else who still posts and updates their building projects here, but admit it or not you created a LARGE hole in your own forum when you quit posting.
 
 I still remember first noticing your projects on SSW way back when and before you started Stunthanger. I immediately latched on and followed your projects because they were cool and interesting subjects and very well done. From there I followed you here to SH and continued to enjoy the same for a long time. I've been checking in and following SH practically every day since it's inception. As soon as you quit posting and updating your build projects here it was a noticeable and inarguable hurt to the overall content of this forum.

 View it all however you wish (as I know you will) but what I'm saying is absolute fact. 

[john e. holliday]

Sparky, with all the ads that keep popping up, do you not get any credit for them?

[RC Storick]

We get a small amount between 4-6 dollars a day. Every month I am always underwater.

[Will Hinton]

Even though I no longer build and fly I am on here at least twice a day, and often more than that, so I just sent you some support.  I would hate for my "break time" relax method to be gone.

[Jeremy Chinn]

Donation sent

[Don Jenkins]

$$$ sent.

Don

[Ken Culbertson]

I see a lot of arguments as to why SH is struggling coming from folks that don't donate.  Sparky has made quite an effort to provide quality content through his YouTube channel that has a link on the SH main page.  Personally, I do not view it as a separate thing, only an improved way of providing content. 

[Mike Griffin]

“The downturn of this forum has nothing to do with YouTube. The downturn is caused by some of the members here starting Farcebook threads and other sites.”
Quote by Robert Storick.

I was the member who started the facebook groups “Control Line Flying” and “Control Line Classifieds.”  This was about 10 years ago.  There is another group named “Stunt Hangar” on facebook as well but I have no idea who created it.

The reason I started those groups was because there were/are a lot of people enjoying the hobby on a worldwide basis that were not hard core stunt or contest fliers and my thought was to give them a place to enjoy conversations about the hobby whether it was stunt related or not.  Like it or not, facebook is the largest social media platform in the world.  Although it is not the case, the mere fact that the word “Stunt” is contained in a forum title, it could be intimidating to those who just want to participate on the weekends with their children or a buddy that likes to fly just for fun.

When I started these groups, there was absolutely no intent of sabotaging any other forum.  It was my hope that it would just draw more people in on an alternative platform and it looks like it was successful in doing so as Control Line Flying has almost 10,000 members as of today.

Because of life getting in the way, I turned the administration of that group, a year or so after I created it, over to some guys that Robert referenced as the reason there is a downturn in his forum and I guess in his eyes, I am the biggest culprit since I founded the group.

However, I do not concur or agree with the premise that these groups were/are the root cause of less participation by members on Stunt Hangar.

Wayne made a very valid point about YouTube and I, like him, do not go to YouTube to watch builds. 
Sometimes it is just easier to place blame elsewhere than to look in the mirror. 

If we all can say that we want this hobby to survive, I would think we could also agree that we need as many opportunities as possible to make it attractive.  We may be the last of a dying generation if we do not figure out how to save it and that is proving to be difficult at the very least.

[Doug Moon]

While it is correct there are many different avenues of stunt info I for one treat and consume each one differently.

I only view FB on my phone and for the most part the FB groups post about contests and how they turned out. Or pics of a day of flying and who was there. From time to time I do see some build stuff there as well and I have posted some of my builds on there too. It's easy right off my phone. I can make the post in about 20 seconds. But the details are not the same.

If I want an answer to a question I ask it here. FB is impossible to track down something. The info here is very good and you will get what you need. If I want to really post a full build thread I do it here. I haven't done it in a long time but that is because the last few planes are exactly the same. I may do one on my electric plane. It is way more time consuming due to restrictions on photo size but that is understandable due to costs. I can really explain it better and interact with questions. I also follow build threads here but don't see many that often, except for Ken and his Canards and whatever else he is attaching to his plane at any given time, .

I don't go to youtube and watch builds. I simply do not have the time to watch that, I work full time. It's way to slow of a process to digest what is going on and the detail is not there like it is item focused pics and with specific written explanations.  Also finding an item you need from a few years back is way easier on the forum than sifting through hours of build videos for one specific 10 minute section. Back in the day I used to have windy videos playing in the background when I would build. Typically I would get a good 10-15 minutes of really useful build/finishing info out of hour video. And if I didn't write down where that info was there is no way I would be able to find it later when I needed it. The rest was fun to listen to and stay up with what was going on with those guys. But there again that is a very time consuming way to take in a build thread.

[john e. holliday]

The main reason I call Stunt Hanger my main forum is because it covers almost all of control line flying if you sign p as a member.   I know some people don't want there location known, but how would you know if someone who flies cl might live close to you.   

Sparky being my grand daughter destroyed my paypal account I will be sending a check as soon as I find your address, unless you have moved again.

[Bill Morell]

There is a simple solution to this and I recently suggested it. If you were to have an annual flat rate of $15 for EVERY member you wouldn't have to post this EVERY year. If SH has 2500 members than that's $37,500 in support. However I was told by Sparky that this is not enough to run SH? There are so many on here that have never donated a cent and you and them know who they are. I see no reason for me to support their entertainment. That is basically like asking me to help pay off some knucklehead's student loans.

[Doug Moon]

There is a simple solution to this and I recently suggested it. If you were to have an annual flat rate of $15 for EVERY member you wouldn't have to post this EVERY year. If SH has 2500 members than that's $37,500 in support. However I was told by Sparky that this is not enough to run SH? There are so many on here that have never donated a cent and you and them know who they are. I see no reason for me to support their entertainment. That is basically like asking me to help pay off some knucklehead's student loans.

This is not the way. Put a fee on it and you will watch it disappear.

[kevin king]

I sent my donation. Never again do I want to see all the info on here vanish like what happened to SSW. Thank you to all the experts on here sharing your hard earned knowledge!

[Bill Schwagerman]

Donation sent by PayPal Sparky.

Like Doug, I use each differently. Stunt Hangar and FB have their value to promote control line stunt and as stated earlier we need to promote it as much as possible. For me, Stunt Hangar is the main place for ideas and assistance and a place to search on topics. I would not be as informed at building and flying without Stunt Hangar. FB is more of a quick/at-a-glance news feed that promotes contests, short videos onsite, results and photos as they happen. The combination of the SH and FB keeps me informed and enhance this enjoyable yet challenging hobby.

[Bill Morell]

This is not the way. Put a fee on it and you will watch it disappear.

I would suspect Doug that you belong to a club right? Do you have an annual fee for that membership? Why is that so different? It breaks down to $5 every 4 months. Anyone who has a problem with that most likely has nothing of importance to offer anyway.

[Doug Moon]

I would suspect Doug that you belong to a club right? Do you have an annual fee for that membership? Why is that so different? It breaks down to $5 every 4 months. Anyone who has a problem with that most likely has nothing of importance to offer anyway.

Your last sentence is absolutely awful! You might want to re-think that one.

I don't belong to a club. I support the local one with donations and contest entry fees and raffle donations.

At first people will pay to join. Then a year rolls by and they forget to pay and their access is limited or turned off. Which is the worst thing you can have happen to a member. Restricting access is like putting a closed sign on your front door. A few days go by and they re-up. Others will not as the longer they go without re-upping the more they know they can go without. This will happen over time unless there is something new to keep them re-joining. It's just the nature of the game. PAMPA used to be 2000+ prior to the internet. Now they struggle to get 200. People dont need it as there are other games in town. SH is not the only game in town, it is certainly one of if not the best. But for those who just read and browse, they wont continue to pay after the first time or two. It will dwindle to nothing...

I am a member of many forums, RCGroups, HeliFreak, Corvette, Dodge, S-10, and a few others and they are free, supported by advertisers only. They are ALL free. It's just the way it is. These sites are huge with ZERO posting restrictions as well. They cost a fortune to run for sure but the advertisers pay for it gladly as they know the traffic is there. Why not have the vendors in the vendors section pay a small yearly fee. Then have their company logos, which is also a link to their site or contact info, roll across the top randomly as one goes to page to page. This would be an interactive way for the advertisers who support the site to get users to see and remember they are there. I cant remember the last time I looked up a vendor and used them out of the vendors section on this site. It's a missed opportunity for revenue. The fee doesnt have to be a lot and every bit will help sparky.

[Bill Morell]

Your last sentence is absolutely awful! You might want to re-think that one.

I don't belong to a club. I support the local one with donations and contest entry fees and raffle donations.

At first people will pay to join. Then a year rolls by and they forget to pay and their access is limited or turned off. Which is the worst thing you can have happen to a member. Restricting access is like putting a closed sign on your front door. A few days go by and they re-up. Others will not as the longer they go without re-upping the more they know they can go without. This will happen over time unless there is something new to keep them re-joining. It's just the nature of the game. PAMPA used to be 2000+ prior to the internet. Now they struggle to get 200. People dont need it as there are other games in town. SH is not the only game in town, it is certainly one of if not the best. But for those who just read and browse, they wont continue to pay after the first time or two. It will dwindle to nothing...

I am a member of many forums, RCGroups, HeliFreak, Corvette, Dodge, S-10, and a few others and they are free, supported by advertisers only. They are ALL free. It's just the way it is. These sites are huge with ZERO posting restrictions as well. They cost a fortune to run for sure but the advertisers pay for it gladly as they know the traffic is there. Why not have the vendors in the vendors section pay a small yearly fee. Then have their company logos, which is also a link to their site or contact info, roll across the top randomly as one goes to page to page. This would be an interactive way for the advertisers who support the site to get users to see and remember they are there. I cant remember the last time I looked up a vendor and used them out of the vendors section on this site. It's a missed opportunity for revenue. The fee doesnt have to be a lot and every bit will help sparky.

I could care less about your opinion of my last sentence and if advertising is the answer than why are hit EVERY single year with these posts about how much it costs? If you were to go through the members you would immediately realize that there are a bunch who have contributed NOTHING. I have donated in the past but never again. Why should I?

[Ken Culbertson]

Anyone who has a problem with that most likely has nothing of importance to offer anyway.

Reminds me of a quote from William F. Buckley - “Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”   A slightly less arrogant version of your comment.

Ken

[Bill Morell]

Reminds me of a quote from William F. Buckley - “Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”   A slightly less arrogant version of your comment.

Ken

Thanks. I'm just tired of people wanting a free ride and expecting someone else to pay for it. Student loans come to mind.

[Doug Moon]

I could care less about your opinion of my last sentence and if advertising is the answer than why are hit EVERY single year with these posts about how much it costs? If you were to go through the members you would immediately realize that there are a bunch who have contributed NOTHING. I have donated in the past but never again. Why should I?

As far as I know advertising on the Vendors section is free. My suggestion was to have them help out with some of the cost of the site as they are using it for income however insignificant it may be in the long run. Having been a part of a hobby company in the past the money made from it is usually pennies comparatively speaking. The fees cant be large or they will just go away. It's just a suggestion.


 

[Doug Moon]

Thanks. I'm just tired of people wanting a free ride and expecting someone else to pay for it. Student loans come to mind.

Hell no we shouldn't pay someone else's student loans. But this is entirely different. If we were somehow able to use someone else's college degree that they got a loan for then we should help pay the loan. But we can't so we shouldn't pay for it. Pretty cut and dry. That whole thing is just buying votes.

This website is a very different situation. Those of us who use for info and entertainment should donate. Sparky puts up the post every year to spark the donation push. That's why we see it every year.

You stated on one post a low yearly fee should be acceptable to everyone. Then you said you will not donate again. That's confusing??

[Mike Griffin]

As far as I know advertising on the Vendors section is free. My suggestion was to have them help out with some of the cost of the site as they are using it for income however insignificant it may be in the long run. Having been a part of a hobby company in the past the money made from it is usually pennies comparatively speaking. The fees cant be large or they will just go away. It's just a suggestion.

Doug,
As a side note to this post, many of the vendors listed in Vendor's corner, Including myself, have not posted or offered any product or service for years.  Some as far back as 2015.  When I quit producing kits with Eric Rule, I sent Sparky a note asking him to remove me from the Vendor's corner section but I am still there.  Has nothing to do with a fee for listings but just an observation.
And yes, it was free to advertise there.

Mike

[Mike Griffin]

This is not the way. Put a fee on it and you will watch it disappear.

You make a good point Doug.  People, and I will include me in this group, who are living off of a fixed income, do not have the discretionary income they once had thanks to the current leadership in Congress and the Oval office.  My wife came home tonight from the grocer with one bag and some paper towels and it was $83.00.  If you are retired and living on a fixed income, most are worried about how to just buy food and pay the utilities.  Little luxuries to belong to a club or subscribe to a magazine have gone away, at least in my home.  I really do not have any solid answers except try to make a difference at the polls this November.  I quit flying because of my health and have quit building because I cannot afford balsa and the supplies anymore.  I have a few kits and engines and when they are gone, so am I from the hobby.

Mike

[john e. holliday]

Weii this old man signed on when Sparky first started it.  There were other sites that I supported that have vanished.  So Sparky a small token is in the mail as PayPal is no more.

[Bill Morell]

You stated on one post a low yearly fee should be acceptable to everyone. Then you said you will not donate again. That's confusing??
[/quote]

Not confusing at all. I have no problem paying if everyone else is too. It comes down to a buck and a quarter a month. That should be doable even on a fixed income.

[john e. holliday]

I could see a small required fee to be able to see all the info on the various forms of control line as I used to compete in most of the different events.  Some just to help out hosting club with the low entries.  But I know there are those with only one interest.

[Ken Culbertson]

Thanks. I'm just tired of people wanting a free ride and expecting someone else to pay for it.

I agree completely. So am I supposed to be tired you getting a free ride?

Ken

[Bill Morell]

I agree completely. So am I supposed to be tired you getting a free ride?

Ken

Whatever makes you happy Ken. However not really accurately applicable for you to be tired as I have donated in the past.

[Doug Moon]

You stated on one post a low yearly fee should be acceptable to everyone. Then you said you will not donate again. That's confusing??


Not confusing at all. I have no problem paying if everyone else is too. It comes down to a buck and a quarter a month. That should be doable even on a fixed income.

So you're not going to donate because you can't verify first that everyone else is donating too. Way to step up and help out. I am sure you know this but sparky makes it pretty clear who has donated.

[Doug Moon]

You make a good point Doug.  People, and I will include me in this group, who are living off of a fixed income, do not have the discretionary income they once had thanks to the current leadership in Congress and the Oval office.  My wife came home tonight from the grocer with one bag and some paper towels and it was $83.00.  If you are retired and living on a fixed income, most are worried about how to just buy food and pay the utilities.  Little luxuries to belong to a club or subscribe to a magazine have gone away, at least in my home.  I really do not have any solid answers except try to make a difference at the polls this November.  I quit flying because of my health and have quit building because I cannot afford balsa and the supplies anymore.  I have a few kits and engines and when they are gone, so am I from the hobby.

Mike

Your story is all too familiar and very sad. I try to go flying alot and even more so over the past couple of years as my kids get older. I had to buy fuel this weekend at the local shop. I am thankful there is a place is town that carries but it was $41 for 1 gallon of 15%. Ouch. I used to but a case of 4 for $56. But it's part of the game. I know there are cheaper methods I was in a bind so I had to go to the local place.

[john e. holliday]

Looking through this thread I see some who have given in the past, but nothing lately.

[Dave Harmon]

All you whiners need to send Sparky at least $5 right now.
Oh wait.....you guys are too cheap to buy a pair of pants that does not have holes in the pockets.
As you are walking along....occasionally look back and pick up the change that falls out of those holes and send it to Sparky. You didn't miss that $5 you lost until you looked back.
All this must mean that you guys can't afford to go flying either....right??
We all could likely loose some weight as well so this would be a good opportunity to cut down on the grocery bill....and pay attention to grocery store 2-fers where you could have had 2 for the price of 1.
Magazine subscriptions? Now that's a real laffer.....
Send $5 of those savings to Sparky and you'll still be ahead.

[John Saunders]

  Sent in my donation , thank you Sparky for keeping this site going