stunthanger.com
General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Clint Ormosen on March 06, 2008, 07:58:38 PM
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I remember the days when whipping together a profile out of the box wasn't to bad on the wallet. There was the kit cost, a tube of glue, a jar of dope, some little hardware, and of course the engine and tank. All in all, I could be into the model for just over a hundred bucks. Plus, you didn't have a new engine on every plane.
But building and finishing a nice full bodied stunter now can have hard costs upwards of $500! I tried to figure how much I had into my Chipmunk and that's about the right amount. Heck, just in the finish I went through a gallon of thinner, almost a quart of clear, a pint of white, plus some red and blue dope. That was about $100 right there. I'm using a Brodak engine, so figure another $100 (could have been worse). The kit cost was about $300 (yes, this was an expensive kit). Plus all the little stuff: Paint masks, wheels, spinner, props, tank, hinges, ect. ect.
It's probably better if you don't think about it. Or let the wife know about it.
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Homework, huh?? ;D
Have fun,
Jim
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Let see
PA .75 = 399.95
pipe 100.00
header 19.95
spinner 32.95
propeller 50.00
Tom Morris controls 50.00
paint 150.00
wood 100.00
glue 25.00
epoxlite 20.00
wheels,tank, etc 50.00
$997.85
I am sure there is more such as aero space composits and this is just a guess.
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the biggest cost is time - even if youtook $10 hour - which is less than minumum wage (in NZ) you would still be in for 50-100 hours or so. well - maybe not sparky cos he builds quick
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Let see
PA .75 = 399.95
pipe 100.00
header 19.95
spinner 32.95
propeller 50.00
Tom Morris controls 50.00
paint 150.00
wood 100.00
glue 25.00
epoxlite 20.00
wheels,tank, etc 50.00
$997.85
I am sure there is more such as aero space composits and this is just a guess.
See what I mean?
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Hey gas was .25 a gal, bread was .20 a loaf, milk .25 gal, put stuff in perspective, what was your hourly wage as compared to today?
Walter Z@@ZZZ
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Clint,
I am sure I am close.
I got all my wood at the hobby shop. So I paid way too much for the wood. $40 for the wing, plus shipping. $40 for the engine off of RCU, plus the cost of the vent and NVA. $24 for the monokote, pluse tax. And a few odds and ends, tank, wire for landing gear (times 2, broke the first stick), spinner. I know I could have bought a ARF Cardinal a lot cheaper, but then I would not have a foam wing.
I don't even want to add it up. n~ HB~> D>K
Paul H^^
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I made the stupid mistake a little while back of tallying up what it cost to build my RC Nobler with 7 servos, retracts, etc... and it depressed me. So I keep my head in the sand and just tell my self it's cheaper than my other hobbies of motorcycles and guns........... HB~>
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Hey gas was .25 a gal, bread was .20 a loaf, milk .25 gal, put stuff in perspective, what was your hourly wage as compared to today?
Walter Z@@ZZZ
Walter, I'm not sure who you were responding to, but you could never get a .25 gallon of milk in my lifetime. Anyway, i wasn't really talking about inflation so much as escalation. As we progress in the hobby, we want bigger, nicer, more powerful models. Those things have a price tag on them.
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I remember the Ringmaster at $3.95 and a Square-T at $2.95. .35 engines for $14.95. Then came the glue, dope, lines and handle plus the other odds and ends. Being a teenager working at a riding stable for $1.15 a day, sun up to sun down. Then moved to the farm that when I worked for neighbors I got a whopping 50 cents and hour unless it was haying time, then we got 75 cents and hour. When I retired I was making $28.00 an hour. Gas was still less than a dollar and I only paid 10 grand for a brand new vehicle. Now I am retired drawing SS and Bell retirement and working part time just to keep playing with these toys. Hate to think what it is going to be in 10 years. Maybe another depression in which the bottom falls out of everything. Later, DOC Holliday
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OK lets put this in perspective. Move the decimal point.
Wages were 2.50 a hr
gas was .39 cents a gallon and D100 Dodge truck was 5,000.00. a McCoy .35 was 9.95
Wages now 25.00 per hr.
Now gas is 3.99 and that same tuck is 50,000.00 and if you could get a new McCoy it would be 100.00 so same difference.
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Thanks, my point exactly.
Walter
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The point of the post has been lost. HB~>
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Seeing you guys ar4e all younger than me I used to get my stuff cheaper than you. Fox 35 10.95, Balsa for a complete stunter 12 bucks, Fuel to run engine 2.50 per gallon. wheels 1.50, Prop 25 cents. airplane dope at local airport 5.00 per gallon. Gas for the car 26 cents a gallon. Flying at the local airport 0. Today multiply by 10. Ain't life a bowl of chili. LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ HB~>
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The point of the post has been lost. HB~>
it sure has!!!!!! oh well
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Then sometimes we end up buying much more than we really need.. I wanted to finish my SIG SomethinExtra like the picture on the box.. First I bought Ultracoat in white and purple.. Then decided I would go with monokote so bought Monokote in white and purple. Then decided to paint the fuselage which meant using Lusterkote to match the purple.. Well Top Flight didn't make a matching Lusterkote for the purple I first bought so bought another color of purple and matching lusterkote.
I'm going to have a few purple airplanes in the future.
Ya pretty hard to build any kind of competition stunter today for under $500.00.. A Legacy with a Saito 56 would set you back a tad over $300 just for the engine and kit.
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Let see
PA .75 = 399.95
pipe 100.00
header 19.95
spinner 32.95
propeller 50.00
Tom Morris controls 50.00
paint 150.00
wood 100.00
glue 25.00
epoxlite 20.00
wheels,tank, etc 50.00
$997.85
I am sure there is more such as aero space composits and this is just a guess.
This is a good example of the VARIABLE COST for one unit.
The FIXED COST for tooling, fixtures, saws, spray paint equipment, and the building space to house them is another matter.
Maybe $10,000 to $20,000, or a lot more.
Comparing $200 for a basic profile to $1,000 for a high tech competator is but the tip of a BIG iceberg.
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And the enjoyment you get out of it...PRICELESS.
For everything else, there's Master Card... ;D >:D :)! :##
George
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The point of the post has been lost. HB~>
LL~ LL~ LL~
Ain't forums fun, Clint! There are always those that run off and hide with the topic.......
I have never figured the costs of building my models. Maybe it is because I do a mass balsa buy every couple years, and I have only bought a couple of brand new engines in the past 25 years. Same with pipes.
So breaking it all down is a lot harder for me to do. I don't even keep up with the amount of wood I use when I build! (maybe I should?? ;D ) I am going to build a kit soon. At least it is a short kit! It will be easier for me to keep up then. And it will possibly be as cheap to build it as it is to build from plans. Except I don't have to shell out a couple hundred dollars at one time to buy the kit when I build from plans. If the wood is already on the shelf, it doesn't seem to cost anything! LOL!!!!
I think our best deal to date was two PA 61s for $200 (total) in excellent shape. Both have been in constant use since we got them with no problems.... when I say I am cheap, I mean I am dead broke! LL~ LL~ LL~
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Hey guys,
Gotta keep this in perspective----it's still cheaper than women!! H^^
Cheers,
Jim
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At the moment of that first launch, it's all worth every penny. ;D
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For me the prices have not changed one iota! I couldn't afford the top of the line stuff in 1950 and I can not afford the top of the line stuff in 2008! In 1950 I made do and had a lot of fun. Today I make do a bit better and have more fun! Same old, same old!
Joe
PS bought my airline ticket for the big June get together, see many of you there!
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Not sure where this thread was to go BUT i took it as ENTERTAMMENT PER HOUR. how many hours of Torrey pine's with your GALLAWAY clubs Titlest balls and Nike Duds can 500 dollars buy you. Try a modern Train layout . THE biggest dollar value is the other U/C flyer's and builders that this hobby brings together. GOT to go now; TO DELTA PARK NOW to enjoy the friends pick at my attempt to build a stunter and B S for about 4 hours
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Hey guys,
Gotta keep this in perspective----it's still cheaper than women!! H^^
Cheers,
Jim
When your done you don't have a headache and you also have something to show for it!
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Back in 1956, I made 50 cents an hour and a Fox 35 retailed for $14.95. That's 30 hours work. I couldn't afford one. Today I can buy anything I want in the model line without thinking about it. (OK, OK, so my wants are fairly modest.) S?P
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The Biplane in the building section so far totals $620.00, and still spending. %^ %^ %^
"Billy G" D>K
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I remember the days when whipping together a profile out of the box wasn't to bad on the wallet. There was the kit cost, a tube of glue, a jar of dope, some little hardware, and of course the engine and tank. All in all, I could be into the model for just over a hundred bucks. Plus, you didn't have a new engine on every plane.
But building and finishing a nice full bodied stunter now can have hard costs upwards of $500! I tried to figure how much I had into my Chipmunk and that's about the right amount. Heck, just in the finish I went through a gallon of thinner, almost a quart of clear, a pint of white, plus some red and blue dope. That was about $100 right there. I'm using a Brodak engine, so figure another $100 (could have been worse). The kit cost was about $300 (yes, this was an expensive kit). Plus all the little stuff: Paint masks, wheels, spinner, props, tank, hinges, ect. ect.
It's probably better if you don't think about it. Or let the wife know about it.
Well I see it this way. Cost has nothing to do with it at all. We do this because we want to and enjoy the challenge. Believe me, I’m not rich at all and have to watch the money I spend on modeling. But building models has never been cheap but when compared to the cost of my Harley Fatboy, Trap guns, and the amount of money spent on grandkids, it’s cheap…lol
The cost of my latest creation is up there but I try and not think about it at. But at 1K for a full blown stunt job isn’t too bad at all. Remember that the engine can be used on many different models so you can’t count all of the cost into one model, maybe a 1/3 of the engine cost. I know I have a few backup engines but they are needed for many reasons but they will all be used eventually.
We also need to keep the hobby suppliers going.
Later,
Mikey
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Well said Mikey
Guys you gotta remember its our hobby, or at least one of em...and it is the cheapest one I have y1
Mikey you need to call me or send an email with your address.
Randy
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Well I see it this way. Cost has nothing to do with it at all. We do this because we want to and enjoy the challenge. Believe me, I’m not rich at all and have to watch the money I spend on modeling. But building models has never been cheap but when compared to the cost of my Harley Fatboy, Trap guns, and the amount of money spent on grandkids, it’s cheap…lol
The cost of my latest creation is up there but I try and not think about it at. But at 1K for a full blown stunt job isn’t too bad at all. Remember that the engine can be used on many different models so you can’t count all of the cost into one model, maybe a 1/3 of the engine cost. I know I have a few backup engines but they are needed for many reasons but they will all be used eventually.
We also need to keep the hobby suppliers going.
Later,
Mikey
I'm not really complaining about the cost. It's just that I didn't realize exactly how much $ actually goes into a completed stunter. I guess I found myself a little surprised once I sat down and figured it up. I agree that it's well worth the money for the enjoyment I get in return (assuming I don't splat the thing on the first flight!).
I fully intend to start another model as soon as possible. ;D
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Okay, I understand, I just tend to ignore the cost, and hope to whatever my wife never asks questions about all the stuff I've acummulated.
Walter
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And then there's the cost of my labor. I have about 300 hours in the PA plane I haven't even started finishing yet. And will have at least that much in the finish. Hmm, at $10 an hour (what I pay hourly folks where I work. About), that would be about $6,000. Materials cost, as Robert has noted run anywhere from $500 to $1000 and fixed costs for tools and such, yeow, could be upwards of $10,000.
Yea, flying CL is cheap. Ask any RC guy. He'll tell you.
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Note to Clint: This was a GREAT idea for a post - my advice: stop keeping track of your costs! n~
What ever I spend its cheaper than a shrink and with more lasting results!
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As most know I am a biker. Harley parts are up wards of 100.00 each. Do that 10 times (those parts will fit in a small bag) you have Stunt Ship. I get way more enjoyment out of sanding for hours and seeing my creation come alive than riding my bike. (Of coarse I do work on bikes for a living) Hum why do I still have a Harley?
Let see for a 1000 dollars (in a stunt ship) I get 100- 400 hours of building and many hours of enjoyment during the summer.
For a 1000 dollars on my bike I get maybe 2-8 hrs putting them on no extra value added to the bike and the possibility they will rust.
Sound to me like a no brain-er!
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Note to Clint: This was a GREAT idea for a post - my advice: stop keeping track of your costs! n~
What ever I spend its cheaper than a shrink and with more lasting results!
Thanks Dennis, but the credit should go to my wife who, after admiring my handy work, asked "So, how much did that cost?". Got me thinking.
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Thanks Dennis, but the credit should go to my wife who, after admiring my handy work, asked "So, how much did that cost?". Got me thinking.
Hi Clint,
remember each time you fly that ship the price goes down. If you crash the first flight, that would be full price. A hundred flight and the price looks a lot better. So how would you divide each flight? Don't you guys use the scrap wood to build your new ship? Ha Ha. Even if you crash don't you use all the parts? So I guess its a one time expense, RIGHT! That's why most of us have several engines, kits hide, extra wood, paint, parts, so when she ask you how it cost, its just left over parts from other planes, RIGHT??? If you have any luck convincing your wife, let me know. (mine's to smart for that) Have a great day and sorry to get out of text, Gary
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Gary,
Good point. If I figure the cost over the life of the plane... Well, that is, if I don't bounce it off the pavement. My last PA plane has probably 300 flights on it and I consider it just getting trimmed. roughly. At the rate my new PA is being finished, the old one will probably get more use. Suddenly it becomes a bargain. Hey, I'll have to use that one on my wife. Honey, it's only costing me about a 3 dollars a flight and it will go down.
Hmm, she'll probably bring up the cost of fuel and the gas to get to the field. Hmm, have to think on that one some more.
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As I mentioned on a thread in the electric CL forum, sometimes it is best to practice "selective amnesia" with respect to things like this n~.
"I know nothing......"
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Depends. A serviceable LA46, FP40 or the like can be had for $70 or less. Wood for a sophisticated profile, not that much, or $70 to $80 for a kit. Seems to me an Intermediate or lesser Advanced plane with tank, painted, can be put together for $200 or $225, including engine. I've seen a few Vector 40 ARFs with engine that cost something like $225 to $250 ready to fly. (Not allowing for discounts at swaps or the cut rate price of hand me downs from friends.) The Vector 40 ARFs do well up through Advanced, anywhere BOM is moot. No doubt such a plane could be effective in Expert as well. Bad form to ARF in Expert, though. A laser cut Vector 40 kit can be had for around $100. Quite a bargain. IMHO. Add silkspan and dope, CA, Epoxy. Maybe around $50 or $60. (Dunno exactly these days with the price of dope going up.) I'm sure I can put together a scratch built plane for around $100, without engine or tank. Price depends on quality of finish. How many layers of clear, for instance. As far as the cost of Bawsa. Do we count only the Bawsa we used, or all the Bawsa we bought in order to find the pieces we select to use. I've got a scratch built Magician sitting in a jig right now. Doubt the wood cost more than $30. I think it reasonable to estimate a total cost of $60 for that plane without engine or tank. Monokote on the wings, dope and silkspan on the fues. This including a Tom Morris crank. Cheap. Less than the cost of changing the oil in my Passat. (I use synthetic.) Less than the round trip cost of gas to see my CT relatives, 175 miles away.
CL is a CHEAP hobby, these days, like it has always been. For the price of the ticket to a Broadway show, you can build a plane that'll fly all summer. For the cost of heating my row house for a month in Philadelphia during a clod snap, I can build a sophisticated stunter. (With enough left over for half a PA.)
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I view the time I spend building as therapy, so if you add up the hours and multiply by the going rate of a good doctor, then the cost would come out as a positive. You could say I have saved the family lots of money and should now use the savings on more therapy material.
Robert
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Hey guys,
Gotta keep this in perspective----it's still cheaper than women!!
Cheers,
Jim
and way cheaper than getting rid of them y1 LL~ H^^
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To follow up on Dennis' point, and to acknowledge Clint's original point, I am building that Vector 40 kit, $79 all laser cut with quite good hardware. Add the LA46 for $70 and a reasonable but not 20-point finish, tank, wheels, etc and I will have a model that in capable hands could win just about any class for around $200! But I think the cost of this hobby is so low in absolute terms compared to the enjoyment we derive from it that the cost is largely irrelevant. We do this because we love it, not because it is fairly cheap. I think Clint's point is that we are seeing "escalation" as we get more involved and learn more about what is available and what is possible, and then develop the skills to take advantage of what is available. Also, that $200 is the passport to a fraternity of passionate builders and flyers who will become lifetime friends. I cannot think of another sport/hobby that can make that claim. And yes, I am also building the piped-PA $1000 job. Escalation!
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Mike, thank you. My point exactly. H^^
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How to make money in modeling.
I built a scale C/L model P-38 and kept a record of the time to design and build it. 1000 hours to design and build the Model. The first wing was too small. Redid the drawings and built the model. Sold the design to AMA for the March 1986 MA magazine. They paid me $350.00 for the article. $0.35 per hour.
Clancy
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How to make money in modeling.
I built a scale C/L model P-38 and kept a record of the time to design and build it. 1000 hours to design and build the Model. The first wing was too small. Redid the drawings and built the model. Sold the design to AMA for the March 1986 MA magazine. They paid me $350.00 for the article. $0.35 per hour.
Clancy
Hey, all you have to do is sell 1000 more designs and you'll be a rich man!
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I tell my wife that I could buy a bass boat and a truck to pull it........
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Bass boats and 4x4 P'ups are a lot of fun, tho! H^^ Steve
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One should NEVER try to rationalize the cost of model airplanes or anything else
done for simple enjoyment. It is incompatible with the philosophy which made it
enjoyable.
L.
"A person is never happy except at the price of some ignorance." -Anatole France
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Then there is the oppisite end of the scale- watching the classifieds here, SS and online like Craigs list for bargains. This weekend I scored the following from Craigs list.
Sig Profile .15 Goodyear Racer- Shoestring- fair condition, most construction complete- missing rudder
Like new OS .15 FP/S with box and muffler and new OS #8 plug
2 Sullivan 2 oz tanks
New set of .015 X 60' lines
Sullivan Inst-A-Just handle
4 ea 8X4 zinger props
2 ea 10X6 props
Full bottle of Pica Glu-it
unopened bottle of Cox 1/2A fuel
All the above in a decent 2 drawer field box
Total cost $15- I almost felt bad about taking the stuff from the girl- but she said it was just gonna gat thrown out. So if aI spend a few hours making a rudder, sanding, painting and installing the controls I'll have a nice trainer for people to try at a total cost to me of - oh $20.
Some days you just get lucky!!