Author Topic: The Challenge (Read 9287 times)

RC Storick · « **on:** July 30, 2007, 09:17:00 AM »

Who is the AMA? We are! If you a looking to the AMA to start a program to keep controline alive you will be waiting a long time. The AMA doesn't’t want us to go away they need to make money and are driven to the source where they can.

Our hobby is slowly fading away. The benefits of building and flying a model airplane are something that lasts a lifetime. It is with our technological advances that we have lost the overall picture of what we do. Can you build a virtual computer model? The answer is yes! Can you use this type of model in everyday life? Not likely, unless you are a computer programmer.

After a long conversation with Bob Hunt and him telling me about a program in the early days of controline where if you were to fly in the open class you had to bring a flying junior in order to fly. As I sat at Budder Park yesterday and got to meet Herman Green I looked at the guys involved. I told Bill Marvel that 65 isn’t old anymore, as I am getting closer to that age. It use to be a number that was unthinkable when I was in my 20tys. Face it if you look at the average age of our competitors its slowly approaching that age.

I am in my mid 50tys and most of my friends are mid 60tys to late 70tys. Why cause there are no young guys doing what I love. Wouldn’t it be a shame when I am in my 70tys it just isn’t here anymore?

Only you can change that!

The challenge is to mentor one younger person and make them promiss to mentor one more. This idea came from Bob to double our size in the next year. After feeling the life in the aircraft that they built and the end of the lines they will be hooked. You will in turn will receive a feeling of accomplishment to know that you had a hand in saving a hobby and craft that you so loved as a kid. (now matter when you started) So please help keep us alive! Find a kid to mentor!

Bradley Walker · « **Reply #1 on:** July 30, 2007, 11:15:54 AM »

Charity begins at home.

My plan is to give as much stuff away as possible to anyone that will show up to the field and fly... Planes, engines, lines, fuel, whatever it takes.

I have been very impressed (and ecstatically happy) with the new group of fliers frequenting Hobby Park. They show up and they fly. That is where it starts. I do not care what they fly, as long as they fly (funny, this is the same thing Bob G. said about me 20 years ago--you have to fly first).

This is the step that must be done before anybody can be taken to a Nationals. We have got to put some butts in the seats right here at home.

I encourage everyone else to do the same.

Andrew Hathaway · « **Reply #2 on:** July 30, 2007, 11:33:42 AM »

I could sit here for the next hour listing reasons why people don't fly C/L and why trying to get anyone new involved is a losing battle, but it all comes down to a few things. There is no place to get the stuff locally. It's expensive. There's no place to fly. No one new is really interested anyway. And finally the big one, the people involved are generally well meaning, but they often ruin the fun of it. To newcomers, the internet is the most accessible part of what we do. What are those people going to see when they log in? It's not so bad here, but on the other forum the hot topics are all arguments over the most trivial aspects.

I'm 29, I've been flying C/L for close to 20 years now, and there have always been kids too young to drive dragged out to fly. As soon as they're old enough to drive they aren't involved anymore. There are always the old guys, but anytime there is anyone in the middle, 14 to say 40-something, they don't stick around long. Whether it's just the other options they have, or the hurdles involved, or the attitudes, is anyone's guess. But nearly once a week I wonder why I bother. I've been inviting friends to come out and try C/L since 1989 and haven't gotten anywhere with it. I usually get tired of pestering them and give up. When I can't get them to come try it with my hardware, how can I convince them to build their own stuff?

I read an R/C clubs newsletter not that far back, and it was interesting to note they were having the same recruiting problems that C/L has had. Their solution was to target the retreads. When you think about it, how many names can you come up with, of people who you used to fly with that just disappeared? Maybe picking up the phone book is the answer.

Dick Fowler · « **Reply #3 on:** July 30, 2007, 11:47:42 AM »

Our local club is trying to encourage youths. http://www.akroncircleburners.org/about.htm

I can remember when I flew airplanes as a young guy. It was cool from about 9 years to about 14. At around 15 girls and cars become more interesting and of course guys who continued to play with toy airplanes were thought to be a bit strange. So I quit along with all my friends that were my age.

I got back into again in the 60's when I was in my mid to late twenties... sort outgrew the "peer pressure - nerd" thing. Quit again in my thirties with kids and job pressures. Started again in my early sixties. Bet this profile fits a lot of you.

Bradley Walker · « **Reply #4 on:** July 30, 2007, 11:48:59 AM »

Quote from: Andrew Hathaway on July 30, 2007, 11:33:42 AM

I read an R/C clubs newsletter not that far back, and it was interesting to note they were having the same recruiting problems that C/L has had. Their solution was to target the retreads.

That may be true, I hear that too. The difference is that they are targeting 30-50 year old retreads.

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #5 on:** July 30, 2007, 12:11:05 PM »

Back to the original challenge, Bob I accept your challenge. Whenever I start an engine in the back yard there are always two kids that show up to see what is going on. I usually just nod my head and let it go at that. I guess it's time I went a little farther. I told the wife to put some soda in the fridge, tomorrow I am going to run the .78 some more, when they show up it will be time for a little visit, and show them around the shop. There are a couple of 1/2A's down there and the back yard is big enough. Sounds like this could be fun. I'll keep the camera handy, just in case they do show up again. Thanks Bob, it's a wonderful idea.

"Billy G"

taildragger-j3 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 30, 2007, 12:11:50 PM »

I fit that bill too. When I got into my mid-teens, I had a chance to learn to fly a J-3, soloed, got my private ticket, on to commercial, etc. Got married, finished college, had kids, no money or time to fly ANYTHING! Finally about 10 years ago a fellow came to work here who had been a modeler and was making noise about getting back into it. I jumped on board and started flying R/C. Still had an old Ringmaster I had built while in High School, and flew it a couple of times, but really got re-involved in C/L at the Ringmaster Roundup in Houston last spring. It was a BLAST! There are a few guys in our R/C club who have started flying C/L (mostly "retreads"), and I'm constantly bugging them about flying C/L more.

I've worked with a couple of kids trying to get them interested, but it seems that ipods, x-boxes, etc. are more intriguing than airplanes. I don't know what the answer is, but I'm going to keep trying. I've built another Ringmaster Jr. like the one I'm holding in my avatar, and hope to use it to teach my granddaughter & other kids to fly.

taildragger-j3 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 30, 2007, 12:24:05 PM »

Here's the "new" Junior

Jim Thomerson · « **Reply #8 on:** July 30, 2007, 02:41:02 PM »

I'm member of two distant clubs, so no opportunity to be involved with attracting people to those clubs. I have four trainers, which have probably 150 beginner flights on them. I helped several retreads get back into CL by doing a couple of trainer flights I don't think very many of my trainer flight people will come into control line, but at least they know it exists and have had a positive experience with it.

Actually we only want a small number of successes. Don't want to get the field too crowded, you know.

I think a trick for a club would be to seek out home schooled kids. They have the parental support, and do not have the often excessive structure of activities a school kid has.

RC Storick · « **Reply #9 on:** July 30, 2007, 03:38:16 PM »

Positive attitude yields positive results. Don't look at the down side.

Richard Grogan · « **Reply #10 on:** July 30, 2007, 04:01:29 PM »

Here's more sugestions:

Donate all of your old Stunt News and CL World magazines to the library of the school that you may fly at on weekends/ evenings. Maybe also the public librarys. Maybe do some demo flights in a parking lot on weekends
at a local Walmart or something like that, just to make some noise and draw some attention(even if its 1/2A). Have your local group/ club help police the circle and answer questions/ give out a map to the club field to those interested.

It can be done.....

Scott Jenkins · « **Reply #11 on:** July 30, 2007, 04:05:41 PM »

Yes, it can be done Heres proof !

Jim Oliver · « **Reply #12 on:** July 30, 2007, 05:21:01 PM »

Guys,
My 12 year old grandson flew two solo flights a couple of weeks ago on HIS Ring Jr. that we built. A good friend gave Trevor a NIB LA15s engine for the Jr.

Later, Trevor bounced the plane pretty hard--I put the wing back on. Trevor put several coats of dope on the repaired wing today. Should be flying again by the weekend.

Out of 8 grandchildren, only one has any real interest in models, even though there are several rc and CL planes in the shop.

Get them when/where you can.

Jim

Bradley Walker · « **Reply #13 on:** July 30, 2007, 05:42:27 PM »

Quote from: Scott Jenkins on July 30, 2007, 04:05:41 PM

Yes, it can be done Heres proof !

Man, look at that circle!!!

Herman Green · « **Reply #14 on:** July 30, 2007, 06:12:13 PM »

I think Robert just said that meeting me reminded him that most control line fliers are old!

Herman

RC Storick · « **Reply #15 on:** July 30, 2007, 06:26:19 PM »

Your not as old as most of my friends!

Louis Rankin · « **Reply #16 on:** July 30, 2007, 10:00:36 PM »

Buy two Ukeys, that way you should be able to keep at least one of them flying. Take one with you each time you go flying. I have trained about 15 people on Ukeys. Out of those 15 about 5 are still flying. Not a bad ratio.

Keith Spriggs · « **Reply #17 on:** July 31, 2007, 12:28:58 AM »

For 29.95 and 6- AA batteries you can get a foam RC model that actually flies. I am sure that 10's of thousands of them have been sold. The cost of getting in to RC by this route is probably less than the 1/2 A plastic C/L models were 50 years ago in todays dollars. Out of all of those purchasers a few will go on to serious RC models. It is too bad there are no small electric control line models available. They could be flown in even a smaller area than the RC models.

Scott Jenkins · « **Reply #18 on:** July 31, 2007, 07:29:47 AM »

Bradley,
That's Paradise field here in Florida, near Ocala. Here is a better picture.

Scott

Allen Brickhaus · « **Reply #19 on:** July 31, 2007, 07:52:35 AM »

Jerrry Norin and I are working with his four grand-kids and they are coming along. They will fly at our Western Kentucky/Southern Illinois Stunt Champs on Saturday, August 18 in Paducah. Do not know how long they will stay with it but it is well worth the time.

Allen Brickhaus

Bob Zambelli · « **Reply #20 on:** July 31, 2007, 08:47:54 AM »

Keith said: "It is too bad there are no small electric control line models available. They could be flown in even a smaller area than the RC models."

Hi, Keith - check this out. They made their debut at the 2007 Fly-In, designed by Bob Wilder from Texas.

I flew the yellow shoestring and the flying wing. They flew extremely well and many showed interest.

They are definitely half-A size.

Will they be available? Maybe if John got enough requests -----------------------?

Bob Z.

Bob Zambelli · « **Reply #21 on:** July 31, 2007, 08:54:21 AM »

AND, speaking of young flyers, this should get your attention.

Ken Cook (Philly Flyers) took his SIX-YEAR-OLD daughter Megan out to teach her C/L flying.

She SOLOED after around three attempts !!

See more about the Cook family in the next C/L World.

Bob Z.

bill marvel · « **Reply #22 on:** July 31, 2007, 11:17:08 AM »

Quote from: Robert Storick on July 30, 2007, 09:17:00 AM

After a long conversation with Bob Hunt and him telling me about a program in the early days of controline where if you were to fly in the open class you had to bring a flying junior in order to fly. As I sat at Budder Park yesterday and got to meet Herman Green I looked at the guys involved. I told Bill Marvel that 65 isn’t old anymore, as I am getting closer to that age. It use to be a number that was unthinkable when I was in my 20tys. Face it if you look at the average age of our competitors its slowly approaching that age.

In our conversation, I pointed out to Bob Storick that I thought that flying is not as magical to young people as it has always been for those of us who were born in the 1930's and '40's. We heard an airplane engine and looked up! I still do. Young people tend to take flying for granted. There is no mystery.

But, that doesn't mean kids today couldn't become interested. They are just as creative and industrious as any age. They just need to be introduced. I have seen literally hundreds of people watch control line. Out of those, a few dozen were interested sufficiently to try it. One or two got hooked as I did.

Since I started flying at Buder Park three years ago, I make it a point to speak to nearly everyone who stops to spectator, especially if they have kids with them. I am going to try to bring along a trainer from now on. I always spend a little extra time with anyone who tells me "I used to fly those when I was in high school" (or some similar variation). Who knows when we might help someone return to the hobby.
And, he (or she) might have kids, grandkids, etc.

I doubt this hobby will ever be like it was in the 1950's. On the otherhand, I have never had so much fun. I am delighted to share it.

bill marvel

Bradley Walker · « **Reply #23 on:** July 31, 2007, 11:31:08 AM »

Quote from: Allen Brickhaus on July 31, 2007, 07:52:35 AM

Jerrry Norin and I are working with his four grand-kids and they are coming along. They will fly at our Western Kentucky/Southern Illinois Stunt Champs on Saturday, August 18 in Paducah. Do not know how long they will stay with it but it is well worth the time.

Allen Brickhaus

Sweet!!!

I love the AC/DC shirt!!! Rock!!!! Rock!!!! Fire!!!!! Fire!!!! I am cornholio!!!!

Chris McMillin · « **Reply #24 on:** July 31, 2007, 01:53:38 PM »

Here is my latest project. Michael will be 11 on Aug. 13th.

His older brother Jeremiah was a modeler from 8 to about 14. He was three time Nats Champ in Scale and flew Speed, and some Racing. Jeremiah recently gave Michael his old AMA number. Since Jer is 26 I figure it'll be another 5 to 10 years before he returns!

Chris...

john e. holliday · « **Reply #25 on:** July 31, 2007, 02:45:32 PM »

Quote from: Bob Zambelli on July 31, 2007, 08:47:54 AM

Keith said: "It is too bad there are no small electric control line models available. They could be flown in even a smaller area than the RC models."

Hi, Keith - check this out. They made their debut at the 2007 Fly-In, designed by Bob Wilder from Texas.

I flew the yellow shoestring and the flying wing. They flew extremely well and many showed interest.

They are definitely half-A size.

Will they be available? Maybe if John got enough requests -----------------------?

Bob Z.

Hey Bob Z., the old DOC here is very interested as they look small enough to not be intimidating to some of the younger crowd. How about a write up on what they are and what the total package is. I know Mike Palko writes about what he is using. But, where do you get the stuff? have fun, DOC Holliday

Steve Kientz · « **Reply #26 on:** July 31, 2007, 05:13:45 PM »

I offer my planes to any at our field who say they use to fly C/L. Most answer with they are afraid they'll tear it up.My typical response is if you don't I probably will. On the up side my brother in law is ready to become an AMA member(wants to fly R/C,although he hasn't tried it yet). He flies C/L very well for only flying several times. He has an 11 year old son who is starting to fly,and his girlfriend has 2 teenage sons that are interested(if we could keep planes together,I seem to have the uncanny ability to crash anything anytime and anywhere in the circle,so me training someone is definitely out of the question. but I do love to build!

Mike Danford · « **Reply #27 on:** July 31, 2007, 07:19:49 PM »

I think it's interesting who DOESN'T get involved in these "how to keep c/l alive" discussions.

Tools

Garf · « **Reply #28 on:** August 02, 2007, 08:10:23 PM »

Quote from: Scott Jenkins on July 31, 2007, 07:29:47 AM

Bradley,
That's Paradise field here in Florida, near Ocala. Here is a better picture.

Scott

I don't remember ever seeing a nicer flying circle anywhere. Exactly where is it? I know some people near Ocala.

Scott Jenkins · « **Reply #29 on:** August 03, 2007, 03:12:12 PM »

Garf,

That is Paradise field near Forest Corners 20 miles east of Ocala. The address is 4125 S. State Road 314A off of State Road 40 approximately 20 miles east of Silver Springs. It is a private residence but open to all controlliners 365 days a year. Email me if you plan to visit. look for the red dot on the map

Scott

Jim Thomerson · « **Reply #30 on:** August 03, 2007, 04:36:05 PM »

I think we should all do what we can to introduce new (or old) folks to CL. But the results are not going to be cosmic, nor need they be. Sooner or later, some manufacturer will recognize a sizable niche market of a control line trainer: electric, modular, foam, full fuselage, attractive. "an excellent control line airplane, all you need in one box for $59.95." This is with a hop up kit available which turns it into a capable stunter. Once this happens, there will be a fair spurt in CL numbers. The present growth in model aviation is people flying parkflier RC airplanes. What we need is a CL parkflier.

Bob Disharoon · « **Reply #31 on:** August 04, 2007, 04:46:19 PM »

Not a bad idea..if you can but an ARF flight streak with a .19 with handle and lines for, say, around 100 bucks, I would think someone (Brodak or Tower) could, if they desired, do a 1/2 A package for around 50 or so. Question is: Money drives markets, and I doubt Tower would not even consider it. I'm sure Brodak would, but admit it, Brodak products are not cheap for a number of reasons. #1 being they are small and cater to a niche market ..#2 great product built with pride, etc., etc. I feel the future looks dim for C/L. and I hate to say it. I am a recent retread (as of this past year) and I'm 60. The rest of us who never really left are older. Almost a scenario compared to the number WW11 vets we lose every year. Is there a solution?...personally, I doubt it.

Known for being wrong ,
Bob

Jim Thomerson · « **Reply #32 on:** August 04, 2007, 05:13:06 PM »

Tower introduced the Flitestreak and Nobler ARF's for no other reason than to make money. So I think money could be made on a plane like I mentioned. It must be electric. The person has to be able to get it flying with no more than plugging in the battery charger. No hunting around for fuel, glow plug batteries, etc. There are all kinds of complete park fliers for under $100, not to mention indoor helicopters, etc as seen on TV. And we don't need a radio!

Phil Coopy · « **Reply #33 on:** August 04, 2007, 07:12:41 PM »

Here is my answer to making it easy for the first training flights. Doesn't cost much to make, fairly durable, and flies really, really slow........in light winds. Some of you RC'rs might recognize it as a converted GWS Slo Fly. I've had quite a few youngsters successfully fly on their first attempt but getting a kid really interested in continuing on is pretty hard. Especially when most of the "busy" parents don't want to get their kids interested in anything that won't double as a sitter service. Oh Well....I guess if you can get one to succeed it's a victory.

Phil

Keith Spriggs · « **Reply #34 on:** August 04, 2007, 10:21:17 PM »

I think you are right, Jim. An electric RTF c/l plane has the potential to add more new fliers than anything that I can think of. Cox sold 1000's of the plastic 1/2A RTF's. Whether the encouraged more people than they run off is subject to debate, but with the new technology an electric , foam c/l that flew well and was pretty durable could be sold for an attractive price. Thousands of people have bought the Air Hog series of RC planes. The price is 29.95 and they do fly well and are practically indestructible Cox has a series of "Warbirds" for 89.95 that only need a few AA batteries and as quick as you can get the batteries charged in the plane you are ready to fly. With 25 foot lines and no noise there are many places you could fly an electric RTF c/l model. I am afraid that many people have never even heard of c/l flying and those that know about it think it is something from the stone age and could never be any fun. Oh how wrong they are.

Warren Leadbeatter · « **Reply #35 on:** August 05, 2007, 12:17:51 AM »

Hi Guys

The issue here in Aus is not the lack of people who would like to fly rather, the lack of places to fly control line. Most local councils have outlawed it because of their fear of some loser getting hurt. The only places to fly locally are on private property and even then you are open to people complaining about the noise.

Just last week we were flying at the local playing fields, having a great time for several hours until the secretary of the local soccer club arrived and demanded that we leave because they were about to have a heap of kids arrive for soccer training. As people started to arrive they were clapping and cheering us flying, which infuriated the Soccer club official and he called the police.

So I decided to move to another field away from the soccer fields, but this was still not good enough for this guy. He wanted me off the premises, presumably because I was distracting his members. The police arrived and told this guy to pull his head in while I continued to fly on the cricket field.

The Police came and saw me and told me not to worry about him and if I stayed off the soccer fields there should be no problems.

Before this guy came along to spoil our fun we had heaps of interested people including children asking us about how and where to get these planes from. They were all very impressed with the simplicity of it all until this official started yelling at them to go away. What a kill joy.

Cheers

Bob Disharoon · « **Reply #36 on:** August 05, 2007, 05:12:05 AM »

Quote from: Jim Thomerson on August 04, 2007, 05:13:06 PM

Tower introduced the Flitestreak and Nobler ARF's for no other reason than to make money. So I think money could be made on a plane like I mentioned. It must be electric. The person has to be able to get it flying with no more than plugging in the battery charger. No hunting around for fuel, glow plug batteries, etc. There are all kinds of complete park fliers for under $100, not to mention indoor helicopters, etc as seen on TV. And we don't need a radio!

I agree with you regarding electric power as the solution.But, if I were a kid and someone set an electric RC and a C/L next to one another and then flew each one, I sure as heck would choose the RC. That scenario is not going to entice kids into C/L, in my humble opinion.

known to be wrong#2...Bob

Keith Spriggs · « **Reply #37 on:** August 05, 2007, 06:51:57 AM »

Quote from: Bob Disharoon on August 05, 2007, 05:12:05 AM

I agree with you regarding electric power as the solution.But, if I were a kid and someone set an electric RC and a C/L next to one another and then flew each one, I sure as heck would choose the RC. That scenario is not going to entice kids into C/L, in my humble opinion.

known to be wrong#2...Bob

I sure don't think you are wrong. When you consider that only 3% (source AMA)of the fliers fly control line and this includes many older ones that have been exposed to c/l flying, the odds are not good of a kid choosing c/l. Based on a total of 3% c/l fliers probably less than 2 out of a hundred would choose c/l. Readily available, low cost, electric RTF'S would no doubt boost that only a small amount. The major sellers like Wal Mart, Target, and Toys R Us are not very likely to devote any valuable shelf space to such a low volume item. Pretty much a Catch 22 situation I would say. For those that have been close to c/l flying for many years and can remember when it was one of the most popular forms of entertainmen in the USA this lack of interest is difficult to understand. Croquet was once one of the most popular pasttimes also. How long has it been since you have seen anyone playing croquet if you even know what it is. Or how about Jacks and Marbles? Ten Pins anyone?

Jim Oliver · « **Reply #38 on:** August 05, 2007, 07:40:18 PM »

Here are a few pix of my grandson, Trevor, with his Ringmaster, Jr. during his early solo flights.

Jim

Jim Oliver · « **Reply #39 on:** August 05, 2007, 07:41:44 PM »

Another.

Jim Oliver · « **Reply #40 on:** August 05, 2007, 07:42:50 PM »

And one more-------
The power lines, fence and dwellings are much more distant than they appear.
Jim

Jim Thomerson · « **Reply #41 on:** August 05, 2007, 08:06:28 PM »

I would guess (don't bother me with data) that maybe 100,000 RC parkfliers are sold each year. If we get two out of each hundred that is 2000 possible new CL fliers/year. Not too shabby.

Bombat · « **Reply #42 on:** August 08, 2007, 02:27:16 PM »

Make of this what you will... a few years ago a friend invited me to fly on an Oxford university playing field : he flew a couple of flights with a small silenced stunter that chugged around and a few students paused to look then moved on with little more than bemused interest... since I was into combat at the time I suggested we have a bit of fun with some F2D (NOISY) stuff. Five minutes and some hairy flying later we were inundated with spectators clamouring to know what we were doing etc. We gave a couple of showbiz bouts with a midair thrown in for good measure and were surprised at the amount of interest shown ; surprisingly from the girls. So we duly explained what was involved and even attempted to give some lessons with the stunter ( not ideal). The net result was a couple of seriously interested people age 21-23 with loads of time on their hands (students) . So, we arranged that the following week there would be a training session and we would supply the equipment.Two turned up and we proceeded to give them training flights. After a short period it became obvious that they were losing interest ; THE REASON they wanted to fly combat straight off and worse they wouldn't want to build anything etc. So it ended there but have no fear, these guys (one girl) will be running the country someday...

Jim Thomerson · « **Reply #43 on:** August 08, 2007, 04:08:25 PM »

Speaking of girls. The Girl Scouts, I understand, are looking to involve girls in activities which are not just "feminine". Given that young girls usually have better reflexes, muscular control, ability to focus, as compared to boys of the same age, it is an interesting thought.

I have done a number of Delta Dart sessions with kids. Building a Delta Dart is a real challenge for the average 10-12 year old. Secondly, there are kids who have been told they cannot use sharp objects like an #11 Exacto. A guy in England developed a foam Delta Dart, which I think would be very useful. No cutting, just glue it together and go fly. I think today most kids cannot be started out in model aviation with having to build something, even as simple as a delta Dart.

Author Topic: The Challenge (Read 9287 times)

Steve Kientz

Bombat