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Author Topic: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes  (Read 3518 times)

Offline Terrence Durrill

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            The ARGUS ..... rare and beautiful ...... designed, built and flown by Steve Wooley in the late 1950's or early 1960's.

                 Question: Has anyone ever actually built and flown the ARGUS.  If so what was your experience with this model?      D>K       H^^


Offline Robert Zambelli

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2017, 07:27:36 PM »
I built my Argus around 20 years ago and flew it approximately 900 flights with the SAITO 30.
It is a truly fine flying plane and very easy to trim.
The first photos show the pants removed since I was flying quite a bit on grass.
Also, the finish was not yet rubbed out.
It has a custom-made ultra light spinner.
After 19 years, the finish started to deteriorate so I did a complete re-finish.
For nostalgia sake, I upgraded to a Fox 35.
The forth photo shows the re-finished version.
It flies beautifully.

  Bob Z.

Offline Sean McEntee

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2017, 11:42:22 PM »
Todd Lee is currently building an Argus, though progress is in hold due to a move. He went to Muncie to take measurements of Steve Wooleys original, as well as doing a cool video with the AMA


Offline Dennis Saydak

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2017, 08:07:13 AM »
I built two Argus in the mid 60s and both were excellent flyers. My second model (picture below) suffered a ground accident at a Fargo annual contest when I stored it under my buddy's DeSoto and didn't tell him it was there. He drove over the wing and although damage was done the spar itself was intact, which attests to the strength of the design. I started cutting parts for a third one and had the fuselage sides and tail feathers cut out for it. I stored these parts until this year when I was contacted by another forum member about them. I recently packed up these parts and shipped them to him. Hopefully another Argus will rise soon.
Just when you think you're getting ahead in the rat race.....you find the rats just get faster! MAAC 13120L

Offline Dennis Saydak

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2017, 10:43:47 AM »
I have a plan for the Argus that I obtained from Tom Dixon many years ago ................................
"Traced from Steve's original working drawings in format, style & notes per original by Tom Dixon. Original drawing from Laird "Doc" Jackson."

This plan shows all fuselage cross sections as well as two stabilizer options. According to the plan, the inboard wing span is 25 1/2". The outboard wing is 2" shorter with 1/8" more sweepback.

I intended to build another Argus from these drawings but I also have one of Walter's fabulous Cobra kits to build. So many beautiful designs, so little time left.
Just when you think you're getting ahead in the rat race.....you find the rats just get faster! MAAC 13120L

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2017, 11:04:35 AM »
I have plans for it and it's on my list.  For the 'what it's worth' category,  Steve wrote in the magazine article that it was one of the smaller ships around at a mere 500 sq. inches and talks about how well the Fox .29 pulls it around at 38 ounces.  Kit makers might like to downsize models for their purposes but I don't think there was any intention for that here.  

Dave

I also have Cobra plans.  I wonder if it is mostly a slightly scaled up Argus.  Curious minds want to know....
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 12:01:12 PM by Dave_Trible »
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Offline Trostle

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2017, 11:18:36 AM »
I built one about 25 years ago.  Built from the plans from American Modeler.  Still have the plans in mint condition.  Photograph in the magazine shows the flap hinge line to be slightly swept forward.  Plans show straight flap hinge line.  As mentioned, the airplane is on the smallish size.  A Fox 29 would be a good fit as would an OS 25.  Mine had an OS 35S and the airplane was around 38 ounces.  Did not have a blinding corner.  If it had been lighter, it would have worked a lot better.  Did OK in the Southwest and VSC.

Keith

Offline Target

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2017, 02:19:35 PM »
Robert Z-
How was the CG  and power with the Saito 30?

VR,
Chris
Regards,
Chris

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Offline Skip Chernoff

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2017, 05:12:01 PM »
What are the dimensional differences between this plane and the Ares? They sure do look very much alike...Thanks,PhillySkip

Offline RknRusty

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2017, 06:59:40 PM »
Below I posted some pictures of Bob with his Argus out at the Fort last summer. I thought I had a video, but I guess not. If he brings it again, I'll get the video on it. But here's a bonus, Bob flying his one of a kind Starlight, I'm not sure if I ever posted this movie. Just some trim flights, but a really cool plane.
Rusty

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while you're doing it!

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Offline EddyR

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2017, 08:05:23 PM »
There is buble canopy version of the Argus.  there is a picture of it in the Nov-Dec 1998 stunt news

I just looked at the video. I have a set of Argus plans drawn from the original model 30 years ago. The flaps are larger than the Aries.  The cowl in the video does not look correct.  Saw the original at contest at Buffalo NY and the new Cobra was in his car but not flown that day many moons ago. Steve did not feel the model had enough corner for the new pattern. He told me he felt the flaps were to large and were softening the corner.  I have built three Cobras but never a Argus.
  I crashed my Tucker today so that gives me room to build a Argus

EddyR
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 08:56:54 PM by EddyR »
South of Cocord NC -25 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline Matt Spencer

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2017, 08:38:06 PM »


Theres a original pencil drawing floating around , if I can find it. Mr Wooleys .

bill littles sleeping partner !


Offline Matt Spencer

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2017, 09:17:48 PM »
Cor Phew Eh . ( Kiwi speak  :-X)



Tom  Mc Clain & Steve Wooleys Arusees .



Tom N.'s







THOSE were the days . THAT was a model Aeroplane . THEY dont make them like that any more ! .  LL~ VD~ 8)

free Plan download . https://freercplans.com/plan3517.search.htm

Offline Robert Zambelli

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2017, 07:23:52 AM »
Robert Z-
How was the CG  and power with the Saito 30?

VR,
Chris

Hi, Chris - sorry for the late reply.
With the SAITO 30, all up weight of 11.2 ounces, the CG came out just as shown on the plans - 2 7/8 inches behind the lead edge.
With the Fox, all up weight of 10.9 inches, the CG shifted aft a small amount, maybe around 1/4 inch.
The flying characteristics were, as I recall, about the same.
Steve apparently like offset.
Severe rakeback on the leadouts and 5/8 rudder offset.
I did neither of those things.

Bob Z.

Offline Target

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2017, 07:22:41 PM »
Thanks Bob.
No worries on the speed of reply.
Did you like the 4c or the Fox better in that plane?
Regards,
Chris

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Offline Bill Little

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2017, 04:52:31 AM »


Theres a original pencil drawing floating around , if I can find it. Mr Wooleys .

bill littles sleeping partner !



Thanks for the post Matt!  Mine was a very good flying model, weighing about 36 oz. as it is pictured.  I led Advanced Classic at Brodak's years ago with it for most of the day...

It is interesting to note for anyone interested in the Argus that Steve's 1960 WC Argus was never published!

I finished mine by having a computer match in Chroma Color of  piece of the original model......I still have the cans with the paint codes on them.  I flew mine with a slightly reworked Fox.35 (Thanks Lou Crane!) or a Double Star .40 with a new venturi.  Harder to prop the DS .40 because of ground clearance.  Steve used 9 1/2" props.

Mine suffered a flame out with it going straight up about 15 feet off the ground, from inverted.  I have it repaired, I only had to rebuild and recover the outboard wing!   I DO need to repaint it now!  I really like it, but it does NOT have a blinding corner, as Steve said.  I have seen several and none of them have had one.  But it is VERY easy to fly well!!

Thanks guys!
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Offline frank williams

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2017, 06:12:42 PM »
Did Wooley really fly it with a Fox 35?

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2017, 06:48:44 PM »
Did Wooley really fly it with a Fox 35?


  Yes! That is what they used back in those days! I think a Fox .35 was in the nose of a lot of famous airplanes back then. Just check out the plans in the old magazines.
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Offline Mike Keville

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2017, 07:15:28 PM »
They're everywhere, they're everywhere!
"I have always abhorred change of any kind."
-James Herriot

Electric:  The death of Old Time Stunt!!!

Offline Will Hinton

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2017, 02:49:07 PM »
Steve used a Fox 29 more with the Argus than a 35.
John 5:24   www.fcmodelers.com

Offline Bill Little

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2017, 03:13:07 PM »
Steve used a Fox 29 more with the Argus than a 35.

Hi Brother Will!  How have you been?

Yes, according to a "young man" (back at the time! LOL!!) who did fly some with Steve and there planes Did look somewhat alike, Steve DID use a Fox .29 a lot.  Of course BOTH of them never left an engine alone and loved to tip the nitro bottle on its head!!!!!!!!!!  Mention of OS NVA's is also something they "COULD" have done!

I have been VERY lucky to have talked with a LOT of the Classic ship's original designers, although I was not there to be flying with them in the day.  All of them from Mr. Louis Grondal who won the first two FAI World Championships to especially Bob Hunt and Mr. Werwage have always been great gentlemen to me on the phone and in person.

I am been very blessed in that regard! :)

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Offline Will Hinton

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2017, 07:11:10 PM »
Hi Coach!  I've been absolutely wonderful.  I pray you're battling your way back to good health?  I, too, have been blessed to meet and fly with most of those you mentioned.  It's a great world, stunt is.  I had the privelege of talking for over an hour with Steve at the Toledo Show just a few short months before we lost him.  I am so thankful for those minutes of reunion with him.  Hate what happened later.
John 5:24   www.fcmodelers.com

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2017, 11:09:53 AM »
Thanks for posting the pictures of me with my Argus... I am 60 lbs lighter now.

I am attaching pictures of 1) Fred Carnes and me at the '98 VSC and 2) Henk DeJong, Tim Meeks and me also at the '98 VSC. Henk's version was take a-part for the trip from Holland.

The FM article plans had the version with round tips but pictured the version with different shape tips.

John Davis drew the plans to the later version and Bill Werwage and I talked many times with Bill taking measurements so that I could accurately reproduce the airplane. Bill had the airplane in his collection at that time.

I still have the airplane in pristine condition.
AMA 7544

Offline EddyR

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2017, 12:51:45 PM »
Tom is there a small amount of forward sweep in the trailing edge.
Ed
South of Cocord NC -25 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2017, 04:51:34 PM »
Ed,
Yes.

For those who question the Fox .35 These airplanes are very light. My Argus is under 39 ounces. Bob Gieseke and I special ordered two engines set up tight so that we could control the break in. Fox was delivering engines with loose fit because people did want to take the time to break them in properly. I also hand lapped the piston and sleeve.

I also added a stuffer back plate and hemi head. The only other change that I would make is to use one of Randy's cranks, since Bob's engine threw a shaft due to too little radius at the counter weight junction.

I hear that Randy's new piston and sleeve is also a great improvement. Since I very rarely use Fox power these days. I just don't need it.

Of course more Nitro helps and is a must at VSC.
AMA 7544

Offline EddyR

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2017, 11:56:36 AM »
Here is the picture from the old 1998 Stunt News. My plans  I drew came from this model . This was before Steve and Billy did the pointy rudder. I do not remember any forward sweep in the trailing edge but I could be wrong after all these years. I sold or gave away the plans two years ago when I got rid of 98% of my plans.
 I did a comparison of the Argus and Billys Vulcan with one set of plans on top of the other and they are very close. The Vulcan tail is larger. I used the magazine plans that I still have.
South of Cocord NC -25 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline RogerGreene

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2017, 03:17:15 PM »
I finally found some photos of the 1961 nats. There are the I-Beamers: Argus and Aries and Ballerina.

Enjoy.
Fly Stunt <><
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90% of how you react to it....

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2017, 08:08:51 AM »
The top picture is Argus, Ares and Detroit Stunter by Rollie McDonald.

The bottom picture is of Steve's Argus has Forward Sweep at the flap hinge line.

I have pictures of Charlie Lickliter's Ballerina at the same '61 Nats. It was, in my opinion,  the best looking of the Ballerina series without the cheeks. That version was published again in FM a few years back.

The '61 Ballerina would have been front row and Concours at a modern era Nats.
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Offline RogerGreene

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2017, 04:57:21 PM »
Oops sorry I forgot to put in Charles Lickliter's Ballerina. Also, Lew's Shark, and a big discussion among the top stunt pilots. These are old slides and they have gotten tinted red.

~Roger
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Offline RogerGreene

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2017, 05:15:33 PM »
Here is Jim Tichy Holding his plane called "Cirrus" which he said He built from Steve's Argus plans. Jim placed 1st in the PACAF meet on Okinawa. Also, Jim holding his Colossus.

~Roger

« Last Edit: May 05, 2017, 06:30:46 PM by RogerGreene »
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Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2017, 05:28:53 PM »
Here are the pictures I took at the '61 Nats of Lickliter's Ballerina

For some reason I had not been able to view the Todd Lee interview about the Argus. Todd, since  both have the Davis drawings let's talk about the small errors that would have made building impossible. Again thanks for the help from Bill Werwage for taking my endless phone calls asking for measurements. (Bill had the airplane at that time.)
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Offline Matt Spencer

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2017, 09:47:07 PM »
Refound This on Hip Pocket yesterday . Where you can download it full size , if your logged in .


Apparently a tracing of the  Original Drawing from which Mr Wooley built His .

Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: The ARGUS ...... rare and beautiful ...... a short video-10minutes
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2017, 04:20:21 AM »
In the Fly-By video contained in this thread, Todd Lee makes reference to Argus plans drawn by a man in the Indianapolis area. I'm quite sure he is referring to John Davis. John actually had the original Argus model at that time and he drew very accurate pencils from it. I suspect that after John passed the model was donated to the AMA Museum, but I'm not certain of that part of the story.

I visited with John several years ago, and we became good friends. He even did a segment for one of my Robin's View Productions Stunt Flyer Video Magazine videos. John gave me the pencils he had created from the original Argus, and I still have them here. Moot point I suppose, because Todd has recreated those plans from the original for his project. 

I had the chance to watch Steve fly the Argus at the 1961 Nats in Willow Grove, Pennsylvania when I was 13 years old! That's also when I first saw Billy Werwage fly his Ares. I flew Combat at that Nats, but it was there that I first saw big time stunt up close and personal and made the decision to pursue that event. The image of Bob Gialdini flying his Olympic Mk III at that Nats is still vivid in my mind. Great stuff.

I'll send the plans that John drew to Todd so that he can check them against his new set and see just how close he and John were in the redrawing process.     

I'm sure that Todd's recreation of the Argus will be stunning and that it will fly extremely well. It's so gratifying to see the next generation embracing the great planes of the past and paying homage to the amazing pioneers of this event. Ya' done good, Todd...

Bob Hunt


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