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Author Topic: Best engine suggestion for "Go Fast?" Go really fast!  (Read 1490 times)

Offline Avaiojet

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Best engine suggestion for "Go Fast?" Go really fast!
« on: November 30, 2011, 08:04:43 PM »
I'm finishing up the wing to a model of my own design, "The New American."

I'll be starting the fuselage soon. "How soon?" "Really soon."

I'd like to have the engine in house and build the fuse around it.

So, I have to make a decision soon. "How soon?" "Really soon."

Certainly, and I wish, it would be as light as the "All American," my inspiration actually, but I'm sure it will be a tad heavier. It has "things" that will add a bit of weight. The span is 52". The wing is actually a Banchee with changed tips.

I've been with R/C and I'm now newly reborn into CL. Took a while, so I don't know the engines.  ;D

I'm sure there's all favorable information written about engines from their adds and manufacturers.

This would only make my decision more difficult.

The guys that do or know speed.

What would you reccommend for "The New American." A model that is an off shoot of the All American?

Yes, as always, money is a consideration. Best bang for the buck.

CB



  



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Offline David M Johnson

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Re: Best engine suggestion for "Go Fast?" Go really fast!
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2011, 08:13:58 PM »
What size engine? and more importantly how long do you need the engine to last.  If you are looking for a 35 size a reworked Thunder Tiger 36 pro will take a 22 - 24 oz plane to around 110-120 depending on the plane and that is with a 9X6 APC If your willing to invest in different props and engine mod things will change.  My point being the information you shared doesn't give enough to give a good recommendation really.  The draw back of the TT Pro 36 and the EVO 36 are that the piston and liner combo for speed goes away fairly fast and you have to change them out to maintain optimum RPM.
David Johnson
 
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Best engine suggestion for "Go Fast?" Go really fast!
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2011, 08:42:19 PM »
David,

Thanks for the quick response.

Yes, I did leave some information out.

The model will weigh in at around 32 to 36 oz. I build heavy, but I will try hard to finish this model as light as I can.

I'm thinking, "out of the box" no mods, bench run, right into the model. Done!

Props? I can play with that or get recommendations. I do have a NIB Just Engines 57 with venturi, and an old, but also NIB Supertiger 45X RE, also with a venturi.

These were both for R/C. sent for the venturi for the 57 and purchased the 45X Venturi on line.

I don't think either will do it?

CB
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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Best engine suggestion for "Go Fast?" Go really fast!
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2011, 08:55:28 PM »
David,

Thanks for the quick response.

Yes, I did leave some information out.

The model will weigh in at around 32 to 36 oz. I build heavy, but I will try hard to finish this model as light as I can.

I'm thinking, "out of the box" no mods, bench run, right into the model. Done!

Props? I can play with that or get recommendations. I do have a NIB Just Engines 57 with venturi, and an old, but also NIB Supertiger 45X RE, also with a venturi.

These were both for R/C. sent for the venturi for the 57 and purchased the 45X Venturi on line.

I don't think either will do it?

CB

HMMMM...what's the purpose in going fast and how fast do you want to go?
Check with the combat guys and find a good used Fox MK6.  or if you can afford it a Nelson 36 or 40.  Either of those engines will put you into the 120 mph bracket with the right prop.
George Brown has a highly modified Thunder Tiger 36 that runs about the same speed, but those mods would be expensive.

Randy Cuberly.

PS:  any of those engines must run a pressurized fuel system  (big venturi's).



Randy Cuberly
Tucson, AZ

Offline Hoss Cain

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Re: Best engine suggestion for "Go Fast?" Go really fast!
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2011, 11:25:22 PM »
David,

// snip//

The model will weigh in at around 32 to 36 oz. I build heavy, but I will try hard to finish this model as light as I can.

I'm thinking, "out of the box" no mods, bench run, right into the model. Done!

Props? I can play with that or get recommendations. I do have a NIB Just Engines 57 with venturi, and an old, but also NIB Supertiger 45X RE, also with a venturi.

These were both for R/C. sent for the venturi for the 57 and purchased the 45X Venturi on line.

I don't think either will do it?

CB

Your title post was, "Best engine suggestion for "Go Fast?" Go really fast! "

If you want SPEED then you have two options. One is a BIG engine with a short diameter HIGH pitch prop. Like some may fly a .60 with a 13-14 / 4-5 pitch prop whereas you might do a 11" dia. with a 9" pitch. In other words, way over-sized engine with high pitch prop. Now that is NOT a Stunter or shall I say NOT an AMA competition rule stunter.

With a 52" SPAN, you could go fairly fast, depending on the thickness and aspect ratio of the wing, with a Nelson or Dubb Jet .50 or maybe larger. You will need sufficient structure, so maybe a bit heavy would be best.

Now Nelson is out of the engine business. However one could list around the forums and find one. If you want easier operation, then I suggest you contact Jett Engineering and check out what is available. OTOH there are probably plenty Rossi .45s around that would move you around the circle. The Rossi was a bit slower than any DJ or Nelson but it was/is very user-friendly. I have a couple Old Nelsons, always difficult.

DJs were relatively easy, I flew them in Scale Warbird Racing, using his carb and they were always no problem.
I have a Rossi .45 in an old style (Dodger) Q-500, some 8-9 years old, that I still take out every so often just to make the 3-D bums scatter off the runway. I'm sure, in circles, that machine would do a 130 to a 150 mph. The Dub Jett .50 should well fit your program. Dubb will set you up with a venturi and whatever you need/want. It will not be free.  n1
Horrace Cain
AMA L-93 CD and Leader
New Caney, TX  (NE Houston area)

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Best engine suggestion for "Go Fast?" Go really fast!
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2011, 11:33:22 PM »
Hoss,

I had Rossi's for years for pattern. I sold my last 45 NIB on the bay. Should have kept it. I don't think the Supertiger will perform like the Rossi. Rossi's are a bit heavy though. But when they get off the chain!

Thanks for the Post, I appreciate it.

CB
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Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: Best engine suggestion for "Go Fast?" Go really fast!
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2011, 02:24:24 AM »
I don't know about a Banshee wing handling 120 mph.  Weak. Long for a built up combat wing. No webbing, no leading edge planking, and so forth. A Banshee length profile front end would shake apart with a hot 45. Let alone a 60. There are classic combat wings that are more strongly constructed in every way. Designed for speed like that. Also, Phil Cartier sells inexpensive and tough foamies designed for high speed. Flight Streaks go a 100 plus with old combat motors. Certainly look that fast. Folks in my club fly a few of these. Fox Mark 3s, 6s and the like in the nose. These are run on bladder. The comparatively short Flight Streak nose, tougher wing construction, (way tougher than a Banshee wing) holds together. We don't time these. But when run all out they are spectacular. A modern RC engine 45, might pull similar to a Fox Combat special. Especially if hit with high nitro. A modern ball bearing engine of high quality might even stand up to the abuse. Plain vanilla bushed modern engines can turn surprising revs. I've seen LA 25s turn over 20 thousand when broken in for fast running. A Magnum 40 or 46, Thundertigre of similar size and larger, should turn pretty fast if broken in for speed, (Phil Cartier probably could supply advice about this). Folks in our club are flying foam combat wings with FP15s and LA15s. Engines run 21,000 rpm, give or take. These planes look like they're approaching a 100. Great flying bashers. If you're interested in starting from scratch to build a 100-120 mph fun fly plane, the Cartier foam planes are a good place start. Tough, simply constructed, reasonable cost. These planes are often flown with low end modern RC engines. Fast. Maneuverable. Big on yukks.

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Best engine suggestion for "Go Fast?" Go really fast!
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2011, 08:00:03 AM »
David,

The Banchee wing I built is sheeted and capstriped.

Solid structure.

CB
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Offline David M Johnson

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Re: Best engine suggestion for "Go Fast?" Go really fast!
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2011, 08:12:18 AM »
Given your CURRENT engine choices the ST 45X Would be my choice Talk to George Brown at Tempe Machine for prop and pitch starting points. He also has parts for the ST X engines so you might ask about any venturi choices as well. 
And here in the SW we have a Sport speed event that is limited to 36s and the Thunder Tigre and the EVOs are capable of out performing the Nelsons but are easier to operate. 120 mph speeds are achievable.
David Johnson
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Offline dale gleason

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Re: Best engine suggestion for "Go Fast?" Go really fast!
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2011, 08:29:27 AM »
You might try a Webra Speed 40. NIB, just happen to have one 85$ though.
Breaking a hundred will be pretty darn fast! :) 
dg

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Best engine suggestion for "Go Fast?" Go really fast!
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2011, 02:42:19 PM »
Dale,

Years ago I had a Webra Speed 40. The 80's. Not that bad an engine.

Got the venturi?

Interested in trading graphics, lettering or paint mask? Even over a period of time if you don't need anything at the moment.

CB
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If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline phil c

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Re: Best engine suggestion for "Go Fast?" Go really fast!
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2011, 04:02:42 PM »
I'd go for the Fox Deluxe 40, double ball bearing, ABC, built on the same case as the Fox Mk VI.  They're currently selling the CL version for $105, which is highly competitive with anything else you might find.  You'll need an OS needle valve, either the CL one or the remote 1a.  They both have a .35mm thread and will control a high pressure bladder.

All the Asian 25-35 engines use a 12 mm crank.  It won't hold up to high rpm running.  I tried a Thunder Tiger 36  a few years ago.  It ran fine on a slow plane.  4 flights with a wide open intake got me 95 mph and broke the crank across the port.  The OS 35 AX may hold up a little better 'cause OS does good work, but even so, a 12 mm crank can only handle about 1 hp.

The bigger case 40's or 45's, like the Thunder Tiger or OS, weigh a lot more, about 12 oz. compared to 9oz for the Fox and cost $150 or so.  An LA46 weighs weighs about    9.6 oz but by the time you get the sleeve and shaft rebored so it will run fast, it will break.  Oops.

If you really want to go fast, get a Nelson 36.  It will pull a 600 sq.in. plane well over 100 mph. It only weighs 8.25 oz., so you can use it on a VooDoo and go 140 mph.   Use either an 8/5 APC if you're cheap like me, or spend a couple bucks more and run 25% nitro and the 8.5/5 competition prop.
phil Cartier

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Best engine suggestion for "Go Fast?" Go really fast!
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2011, 05:29:47 PM »
Look at this thing!

Heavy, strap muffler, shakes around, fuel leaks, mess everywhere, RE, and the muffler exits towards the head.

The advantage is it's NIB and paid for!

Possibly gasket the muffler or use the header with a short pipe?

CB

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If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

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