Teabag Paper

[Mike Griffin]

Is teabag paper the same as the old silkspan we used to get?

Mike

[Ty Marcucci]

Yes, it was also used to cover privacy screens and walls in early Japanese homes.  I saw this in Japan in the 60's and remarked on it to another sailor.. We both chuckled at the thought of buying the girls walls so we could cover our wings.

I used to carry tea bags in my repair kit when I flew combat, but soon realized they were good only for small tears, not entire wings. 

[Paul Smith]

In the 1960's we carried the printed hard copy of The AMA Rule Book and used paged from the RC section to patch torn wings.

[Mike Griffin]

Yes, it was also used to cover privacy screens and walls in early Japanese homes.  I saw this in Japan in the 60's and remarked on it to another sailor.. We both chuckled at the thought of buying the girls walls so we could cover our wings.

I used to carry tea bags in my repair kit when I flew combat, but soon realized they were good only for small tears, not entire wings. 

Thanks Ty,  do you have any idea where you can buy either rolls or sheets of it?

Mike

[Steve Berry]

Try this...

https://www.fine-tools.com/shoji.html

Japanese shoji paper

Steve

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

[Steve Berry]

And here's a couple of more that maybe what we are looking for...

https://www.mulberrypaperandmore.com/p-81-bleached-mulberry-paper-roll-white-37-inches-x-325-feet.aspx

https://paintspot.ca/art-supplies/paper1606883538/japanese-paper-place-washi/washi-intro-paper/shoji-paper-roll/

https://www.mulberrypaperandmore.com/p-6661-korean-hanji-paper-roll-45gsm-natural-35-x-65.aspx

and perhaps this one:
https://www.mulberrypaperandmore.com/p-4956-shoji-paper-roll-basic.aspx

Someone with a bit more disposable income than I (at the moment) should get some to try.

Steve

[Steve Berry]

And here's a couple of more that maybe what we are looking for...

https://paintspot.ca/art-supplies/paper1606883538/japanese-paper-place-washi/washi-intro-paper/shoji-paper-roll/

Steve

Followup:

I sent the company this message asking about the above material:

Hi,

I'm looking for a replacement for model airplane silkspan. I was told that shoji paper (Shoji Natural Paper Roll: https://paintspot.ca/art-supplies/paper1606883538/japanese-paper-place-washi/washi-intro-paper/shoji-paper-roll/) is very nearly the same as we used to be able to get.

I know that model airplane silkspan has a definite grain to it, typically along the length of the roll, not across, and can shrink slightly after wetting (only because the water used relaxes it). Does this shoji paper do the same, and can I perhaps get a weight of it? If it is the same stuff, I know I would be very open to buying some, as would many, many others.

Thanks.

Here is their response:

Hello Steve,

Thanks for your inquiry. I’ve gone to our supplier about your questions and here is their reply:

“Yes, Shoji Natural is a pure kozo paper and has the properties your customer describes. It is 30gsm.  An almost identical sheet paper is Usu Kuchi Heavy (31gsm). “

Hope this helps!

Take care,

Michelle Chapman – Manager/Purchaser
THE PAINT SPOT | 10032 81 Avenue | Edmonton, AB | T6E 1W8
Phone (780) 432 0240 | Toll Free 1800 363  0546 | Fax (780) 439 5447
www.paintspot.ca

So, if you want to get something that should work as silkspan, here you go. I would be interested in getting a sample of it and comparing to the stuff Dave mentions in his post about his source. Just because it's hard to find doesn't mean it's impossible to find.

Steve

[John Tate]

The word got out that some modelers here in Virginia used to use the end of the roll of Lipton Teabag material. The next town over has a Lipton tea factory. I was able to talk to a retired Lipton employee and of course where they get their tea bag material is a secret. I did see a box in his garage with the name of Glatfelter, Ahlstrom printed on it. Lipton used to purchase the teabag material by the truck load. I was told to check out the following:
https://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/compound-teabag-paper-market-projected-to-show-strong-growth-with-glatfelter-ahlstrom-munksjo-purico-twin-rivers-paper-pelipaper-vezirkopru

The retired Lipton employee also told to me to check out the following:
https://flexlinkllc.com/tea-bag-filter-paper-supplier/

Hope this helps out. Now it seems that a bunch of modelers are trying to find some good silk span.

[Dan McEntee]

   There is all sorts of products that use similar paper, and you just have to find out what they are where they get their paper from. I used a public restroom while shopping today. Have you ever really looked at those toilet seat protective liners hanging on the wall? Pull one out and examine it. The one I brought home with me looks just like light weight silks span with similar visible grain. It's big enough that I think it could be used for smallish models if it didn't have that big hole perfed in the middle!! i was at a Hobby lobby craft store looking at stuff there, and a Jo Ann Fabrics place. They both carry all sorts of yard goods, and have the generic version of Polyspan that is used for making all sorts of garment and it called Pellon. I saw some stuff at Hobby Lobby that look just like silk span was about 5 times too heavy. I thought I took a cell phone picture of the end pane and what it said but I must have deleted it, but it had a "40W" designation on and the young lady that was helping me dasi that was the weight. Makes me wonder what 20W or 30W looks like!! I don't really need it, but  it's interesting to work the problem and see what I can find.

  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Dave_Trible]

Just FWIW-  I've covered 4-5 airplanes now with the tea bag paper I got from Dave above.  The best stuff I've seen or used in years.  AND now that we know where to get it I can't find any reason to look further.  In my estimation it is BETTER than the old silkspan since it has the fine supporting mesh (almost microscopic but in there) which helps to hold the stuff together,  likely for years.  It also doesn't seem to take as much clear dope to fill.   I'd compare it in weight to old medium weight silkspan,  maybe a little lighter.  I ordered 90 feet today-maybe last a couple years in my shop.  Was sure tempted to go for the 100 meter roll...........shipping that these days may have been real ugly.


Dave

[Dave Rigotti]

Dave, I agree on the stuff.  I chuckled at the link for a box of 36 rolls at 4" wide.  But....What else will Dan and others post about......

Just FWIW-  I've covered 4-5 airplanes now with the tea bag paper I got from Dave above.  The best stuff I've seen or used in years.  AND now that we know where to get it I can't find any reason to look further.  In my estimation it is BETTER than the old silkspan since it has the fine supporting mesh (almost microscopic but in there) which helps to hold the stuff together,  likely for years.  It also doesn't seem to take as much clear dope to fill.   I'd compare it in weight to old medium weight silkspan,  maybe a little lighter.  I ordered 90 feet today-maybe last a couple years in my shop.  Was sure tempted to go for the 100 meter roll...........shipping that these days may have been real ugly.


Dave

[Dan McEntee]

Dave, I agree on the stuff.  I chuckled at the link for a box of 36 rolls at 4" wide.  But....What else will Dan and others post about......

  ? 

[Paul Wescott]

  ? 

I didn’t see a link for 4” wide paper either, doesn’t mean it wasn’t there.  Anyway here is a short video of a tea bag filling machine using 4” wide rolls, makes perfect sense.

https://youtu.be/zqiS35WEiIg?si=kfQXNX7uYHzKyi0w

[Dave Rigotti]

It's there......

https://flexlinkllc.com/vending-machine-coffee-filter-rolls/

I didn’t see a link for 4” wide paper either, doesn’t mean it wasn’t there.  Anyway here is a short video of a tea bag filling machine using 4” wide rolls, makes perfect sense.

https://youtu.be/zqiS35WEiIg?si=kfQXNX7uYHzKyi0w

[Dan McEntee]

It's there......

https://flexlinkllc.com/vending-machine-coffee-filter-rolls/

      I haven't seen that before, don't know where that is. That's the kind of machine you would get if you were making custom tea blends in your kitchen and then packaging in your garage for small markets. If you want more production, buy more machines! I doubt you would see anything like that at Lipton and expect to keep the countries grocery store shelves stocked!!

     While watching that video, this one was listed. it would be the next step up most likely;
       

    I still don't think that Lipton has a lot of those in their plants either. It's more like a typical form and fill machine that is used to bag pack a lot of products. I worked in the contract packaging business and rebuilt, repaired and designed custom packaging machinery for several years early on in my career and held a patent in that industry, # 5311726. On a lot of machinery, things haven't changed dramatically over the years but just get more and more refined over time to make them faster and more efficient. These smaller machines that take the narrow width roll is one way. I have not seen any larger and faster machines, but from experience I can imagine a single, wider roll feeding a system to feed several machines at the same time by slitting the paper at a certain point into the necessary number of ribbons to feed the machines, depending on how they are positioned. These machines might have multiple filling funnels that allow it to match the surface speed of the paper. I can also see a tea company buying the paper is wider rolls to get a better price on it, and then convert and rewind into narrower rolls to meet their needs. They could even be printed with a logo using vegetable base inks along the way but that would just slow things down. I think the paper has to have some sort of treatment that allows it to be heat sealed, though. That could be blended into the fibers of the paper when it was milled I think or applied just prior to slitting and rewinding into the final roll size. One way to check is to take some of the tea bag paper and try heat sealing it with a monokote iron at full temperature and see what happens. The packaging business was pretty interesting and I wouldn't have minded staying in it with the right company, but I got kind of burned out by my former boss. That led the parent company that had bought us out a few years earlier to offer me a position in the printing business, and that worked out OK. I kind of miss them both.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Steve Helmick]

Hello Steve,

Thanks for your inquiry. I’ve gone to our supplier about your questions and here is their reply:

“Yes, Shoji Natural is a pure kozo paper and has the properties your customer describes. It is 30gsm.  An almost identical sheet paper is Usu Kuchi Heavy (31gsm). “

Hope this helps!

Take care,

Michelle Chapman – Manager/Purchaser
THE PAINT SPOT | 10032 81 Avenue | Edmonton, AB | T6E 1W8
Phone (780) 432 0240 | Toll Free 1800 363  0546 | Fax (780) 439 5447
www.paintspot.ca

Noticed that THE PAINT SPOT is in Edmonton, Alberta, and figure that Bruce Perry probably knows Michelle Chapman or somebody else that works at THE PAINT SPOT, so I'd suggest getting Bruce to phone and see what he can arrange. Bruce being on the Canadian F2B team will most certainly impress Michelle. Being owner/operator of Magic Bus Tours might not hurt, either.     Steve

[John Tate]

I received a sample of one of the Flexlink products. They call it Flexsheen. The sample size is 8 1/2" x 11". The sample is too light for control line use. It would work great on small rubber powder free flight models. Maybe if someone could mail the teabag paper manufactures a good sample. Then maybe a match can be found. It sounds like Dave Rigotti has received some good teabag paper.

[Dan McEntee]

I received a sample of one of the Flexlink products. They call it Flexsheen. The sample size is 8 1/2" x 11". The sample is too light for control line use. It would work great on small rubber powder free flight models. Maybe if someone could mail the teabag paper manufactures a good sample. Then maybe a match can be found. It sounds like Dave Rigotti has received some good teabag paper.

    The point of my last post is, I don't think what Sugardoo is selling is tea bag paper. It may be, but the fact that she has it in 1 meter wide sheets up to 100 meters long makes me think otherwise, after checking out those videos for packaging tea bags and the narrow rolls they require. In her website, the owner mentions that it "feels like tea bag paper."  What they sell it for is for use as an interface material that goes under the top layer of fabric on a quilt. It's purpose is to keep the material from bunching up and wrinkling the top layer of material as stitches accumulate, especially if sewing by sewing machine. Another term for it is pellon. I went through the PellonProjects.com web site and picked out 8 different products that I am going to check the Jo Ann Fabrics store's inventory for to see what they look like. I also back checked to see what pellon material Doc found that was similar to Polyspan and it was Pellon P45JAS Interfacing material, for anyone else that wants to check that out. It looks like that is the only weight they sell, from looking at the web site. But they are not the lone source for this type of material, I believe. When I visit the fabric store again, I want to take some samples of material with me also, and I'm going to see if there are other store in my area that sell similar products. That's the trick here.
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee