Take off pad

[Paul Taylor]

We set the forms today for a take runway.
Jimmy said it might be 15R.


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[peabody]

Cool!

[Dane Martin]

Very nice indeed!

[Crist Rigotti]

Good for you guys!

[Russell Shaffer]

Are you planning to put in some type of reinforcement?  Rebar or wire?  Looking good. 

[Paul Taylor]

Are you planning to put in some type of reinforcement?  Rebar or wire?  Looking good.

Thanks guys.
I had thought about putting wire in but then thought it will only take the weight of the planes.
Maybe on second thought my planes weigh a ton.
It will be 4-6 inches think. You think I need wire? I'm not a concrete guy.

[Mike Scholtes]

I'm not a pro, but I have done a lot of concrete flatwork and patios over the last 40 years. I strongly suggest at least a network of 1/2 inch rebar, wired at the joints with the proper non-corroding wire and held off the surface with 2-inch concrete block made for the purpose. Depot has all this stuff and it is cheap. The weight of the concrete itself is the issue, and the propensity for settlement of the soil beneath it. I see no gravel bed, which is fine, but increases the need to reinforce the slab. You will get cracks and differential movement within a year, and the rebar is there to keep the slab in one plane. This is easy work and will add only a few hours of time. You also need to specify the size of the aggregate in the concrete (depends on diameter of pumper hose if you are using a pumper) and the number of bags of cement in the concrete per cubic yard. Your ready-mix supplier can tell you what is needed.

[Paul Taylor]

I'm not a pro, but I have done a lot of concrete flatwork and patios over the last 40 years. I strongly suggest at least a network of 1/2 inch rebar, wired at the joints with the proper non-corroding wire and held off the surface with 2-inch concrete block made for the purpose. Depot has all this stuff and it is cheap. The weight of the concrete itself is the issue, and the propensity for settlement of the soil beneath it. I see no gravel bed, which is fine, but increases the need to reinforce the slab. You will get cracks and differential movement within a year, and the rebar is there to keep the slab in one plane. This is easy work and will add only a few hours of time. You also need to specify the size of the aggregate in the concrete (depends on diameter of pumper hose if you are using a pumper) and the number of bags of cement in the concrete per cubic yard. Your ready-mix supplier can tell you what is needed.

Thanks Mike. Can you maybe post or send me a link to what I need from Home Depot?
Why have a guy at the club that is going to have a friend send out a truck next weeek. We were not putting any joints. I was just going to take a 2x4 and smooth it off.

[Fredvon4]

Paul...I have paid for and done a LOT of patio and side walk concrete work on my property

Texas soil is highly movable.. wet, hot, cold, dry... the smaller things I did with no wire or re-bar are OK---- but after 15 years now developing cracks.. this is a growing problem over time as we do get freezing winter temps...water seeps into a crack..freezes and expands...crack bigger

The areas where we used sucker rod or wire are not having this issue....hint

Base on the forms I see... obviously re-bar is best ----but I think  just heavy wire mesh would do the job, less cost, easy to cut to size...remember to support it mid density in the mud... laid on top of small rocks works..Big Box sells small plastic 1.5 to 2.5 inch stand offs for cheep. In our case we did not even use stand offs... but did use a rake and pulled the wire mesh up to surface and let settle under the top finish

Skreeting with 2x4 works good to level the surface...but once set up some, a good Trowel/Float work makes for a much significantly harder surface and can be broom finished a little later to give a rough texture is desired

great project...a lot of work.... hand mixing 60ea 80LB bags will kill old guys....pay for the truck

[Mike Scholtes]

Hi Paul - Go to HD's website, find "construction materials," then "cement and concrete." You will find rebar, tie wire, etc. I can't tell the size of your project from the picture but 10' lengths are easier to handle, and you can get some 6' and 3' pre-cut lengths for cross pieces. Lay out a grid with 1-foot squares and calculate how much of what lengths you will need. Do it on paper first. There should be a perimeter of rebar about 6" in from edge of slab. Support the grid on little concrete blocks about every 3 feet, to keep the rebar in the center of the slab when the concrete is poured over it. You can grab it and lift it in the wet cement to be sure it is more or less centered in the slab.

You can rough screed the surface with a 2x4 but there are tools made for this purpose that are easier to handle. You should also get a steel float, essentially a metal spatula, to sweep across the surface to produce a smooth finish and press the aggregate down  just below the surface. There are hand-held ones in metal and wood but the long one (kind of like a pool sweep) is easier to use and can reach the center of the slab easier than one without a long pole.

You are going to need 3 or 4 people to shovel, move the wet mix, do the leveling. They will need rubber boots and rubber gloves, concrete is really nasty on bare skin. You also may find a local guy who does this kind of work by asking the concrete supplier. It would be worth a few dollars to have someone on site that has done this before and has some expertise. This structure is going to last 200 years so no sense scrimping now.

Good luck with the project!. There are loads of Youtube videos on how to do concrete and rebar placement, have a look.

[Fredvon4]

No real dimensions offer but looks about 5' wide by 30~40 feet long... if this project is 5' x 30' x 4" it is nearly 2 yards   this is some where from 34 to 50 80lb bags

I did the math some years ago but there is a point of diminishing returns on using Pre mix in 80lb sacks vs paying for one or more yards delivered...seems to me you are less cost at anything over 1.5 yards having it delivered...(I my area)

Take into account...even with a heavy discount like 10% military at Lowes or Home depot you still have to load all the sacks, pay, transfer to trailer, unload, move to mixing site, open, add water and mix, move to pour site.... you get the idea...a HELL OF A LOT of back breaking work

small 4 to 10 sack project... of course... 20~60 sack project...no matter how many helpers.. just pay for the delivery

[Paul Taylor]

Thanks guys. Great info.
It is 6x34x4in.
I will crawl YouTube also.

[Mike Scholtes]

That's about 2.5 cu yds of concrete, enough to justify ordering from a supplier with a mixer truck. It is also enough to warrant hiring a guy with a pumper, who often will have a guy who will handle the hose to place the wet mix. This goes pretty fast, so the guys on the shovels and the leveler guy who smooths it as you proceed along the pour, have to be ready to work fast. Fear not, it will come out fine. Not rocket science. I think it is a false economy to try to do it yourself with a rented mixer and bags of concrete, when you consider the time and effort. You will get a better job and more consistent mix from a mixer truck. Of course if you are 200 miles from the nearest ready-mix operator, you may have  to do it yourself on site.

Watch those videos on youtube, you can learn so much. There are videos for everything you can imagine and then some.

Hope this doesn't sound like know-it-all stuff but I have humped enough concrete in wheelbarrows to say "never again." Depending on your group's age and fitness you may need to calculate in the cost and agony of a back injury. I am now 70, and have done in my back more than once with #!!#@ concrete work. I hired a truck, a concrete pumper, and a crew of helpers for my last job a year ago. Much better!

[Brett Buck]

That's about 2.5 cu yds of concrete, enough to justify ordering from a supplier with a mixer truck. It is also enough to warrant hiring a guy with a pumper, who often will have a guy who will handle the hose to place the wet mix. This goes pretty fast, so the guys on the shovels and the leveler guy who smooths it as you proceed along the pour, have to be ready to work fast. Fear not, it will come out fine. Not rocket science. I think it is a false economy to try to do it yourself with a rented mixer and bags of concrete, when you consider the time and effort. You will get a better job and more consistent mix from a mixer truck. Of course if you are 200 miles from the nearest ready-mix operator, you may have  to do it yourself on site.

   ++   Definitely recommend getting it from a truck, instead of doing it yourself, also for the rebar and mesh. You *could* realistically do it with bags of ready-mix, but it's a lot more than you might think, and it would make for a really long day.

    I haven't done anything like this for almost 40 years, but my brother and I did this a lot under the supervision of my dad, and that includes a ~200x20' driveway on the side of a hill - which many bags of ready-mix, a wheelbarrow, and a garden hoe to mix. Not recommended, it damn near killed us all and made for lasting family memories. But not good ones. It was still there and still mostly-intact when I checked it a few years ago.

   Similar projects I was in charge of for the parks department (about the same time frame, yes, they let an 18-year-old college physics student summer hires design and contract out concrete jobs), we got trucks with pumpers and it was vastly easier and not much more expensive. Since we had to pay 15 guys to work on it, probably less expensive in the long run.

    Brett

[Mike Scholtes]

Ah, we have someone who can tell us definitively whether concrete work IS rocket science! My guess is still "no" but am open to competing opinions.

Brett laid a 200 foot drive way with bags of mix and a wheelbarrow? Cripes, that must have taken 10 years and resulted in some less than pleasant family get-togethers. Sounds like my upbringing, self-reliant German farm family in Michigan. I swore I would not be like my dad. True, I ended up worse.

Another good reason not to mix concrete yourself in a mixer or a wheelbarrow is you will inevitably breathe cement dust, of which lime is an ingredient. Really, really bad for your insides. Even if you get wet ready-mix concrete in a trailer, and use wheelbarrows to move and place it, that is better than doing it yourself.

[Brett Buck]

Brett laid a 200 foot drive way with bags of mix and a wheelbarrow? Cripes, that must have taken 10 years and resulted in some less than pleasant family get-togethers. Sounds like my upbringing, self-reliant German farm family in Michigan.

   Don't forget the side of the hill part.

   That was nothing, we (my brother and I) also first distributed ~2" or so of topsoil, then rototilled it, then raked it, then seeded and raked it again - all which shovels, a wheelbarrow, and a 16" garden rake - over an ACRE of land.  We got to split $20 between us for.

    My dad believed in hard work, particularly when he had a captive workforce. He fed us and housed us and we did work. I think some people got in a lot of trouble for that a 150 years ago.

    Brett


p.s. Every inch of landscaping on this lot was done by my brother and I at one point and with minimal equipment. Driveway on extreme right (right half). A little cracked but not bad after 40 years. I ran over one of those trees in the center with a lawn mower, when it was about 3/16" around, but it grew back, apparently. The lot goes much further down the hill than it looks and way off to the left. A few of our old Christmas trees are planted on the left end of the house.

[cory colquhoun]

Thanks guys.
I had thought about putting wire in but then thought it will only take the weight of the planes.
Maybe on second thought my planes weigh a ton.
It will be 4-6 inches think. You think I need wire? I'm not a concrete guy.

Wish I was a bit closer would give you a hand,  try not to pour it on a real hot day the cooler the better ,gives you more time to finish it, And it's best not to play with it too much, that's a pretty simple job as you can lay a straight board across the formwork, screed  ,float, edge, when it's almost gone off edge once more and finish all the best

Cory

[RC Storick]

Yes, you need Rebar or wire mesh preferably boot or it will crack quickly. You also need Visqueen (Black plastic) laid down first.

[frank mccune]

       Hello Rootbeard:

       You have received very good information.  I would suggest that you get "hooked up" with a concrete finisher who would give you a hand.  These guys are concrete artists and he may be able to supply the extra tools that make for a superior job.

        I would skip the Visqueen as I do not think that you need a vapour barrier.  In lieu of concrete blocks, bricks etc. to hold your rebars in the middle of the pour there are things called high boys that will do the job much easier.  I think that 3" of reinforced concrete would be more than adequate to support the load that will be applied in your use.  It may be  wise to add some pitch towards the outside of the circle to allow the water to drain off the pad.  I think that 1/4" per foot would serve well.  I can not think of why a base of gravel is needed for this project.

      I was also thinking that by not using any rebar, it would be easy to remove if one is evicted from the site. Lol

     In any case, good luck with the project.

                                                                                                                 Frank McCune

[Paul Taylor]

I have remesh and stand offs ordered. 👍🏽

Now to build bull float. Found that on a DIY. 😊 ( did not know a bull could float)

And everyone in this thread has a open invitation to come help or just test it after it sets up. 🙃

[Tim Wescott]

Build it like some jerk will drive across it at least once.  Because sooner or later someone will, either out of malice or from plain dumb thumbs.

[Brett Buck]

Build it like some jerk will drive across it at least once.  Because sooner or later someone will, either out of malice or from plain dumb thumbs.

  Probably,  but even without that, with no reinforcement, the ground heave, thermal variation, and subsidence will get it eventually.

     Brett

[Tim Wescott]

  Probably,  but even without that, with no reinforcement, the ground heave, thermal variation, and subsidence will get it eventually.

     Brett

I figured that had been communicated effectively already.