Swaging Pliers

[Dick Pacini]

I understand that Carl Shoup made some swaging pliers for doing line ends.  Could anyone who owns that tool take a pic of the jaws and post it?  I have sent emails and PMs to Carl, but I know he is busy.  I would like to buy one but will make my own if I have to.

[Gerald Arana]

Hi Dick,

Carl Schoup (sp?) is a fine and honest person.  
I purchased some of these pliers from him and was swagging my lines until they came apart and I crashed my JS at VSC 5-6 years ago.   I decided to put more pressure on the pliers when using them and I broke them. Not good! You have to squeeze them 50-60 times as you rotate the connection and they look cool; BUT wrapping them is by far the best method IMHO!
I even went as far as to buy another type pliers that sewage's (Cost about $90) but I still don't use them. They have a hex shape and I don't like them. Oh well, live and learn........................

Cheers, Jerry

[Dick Pacini]

Thanks for the info.  Still, I would like to see a photo of the jaw detail.

[Michael Massey]

Take a look at swaging tools at large fishing internet sites.  I have a pair I bought for fishing.  Generally they have three different sizes in the swaging pliers.  One of the three sizes will usually take care of our airplane stuff.

[Dick Pacini]

Those swagers surround the tube.  I believe Carl's pliers swedged lengthwise. 

[Guy B Jr]

You may want to check out "Lineman's Pliers". They produce a crimp like we are used to.

[john e. holliday]

Give Carl a call on the land line or cell phone.   When the swag is done right, the ferrals have a nice round shape like a tube that has been shrunk down on the cable.   Yes it takes time to do it right.   Since Carl told me I didn't clamp down enough I have not had a line slip.  Of course I put a heavier pull test on the line/leadout then what the rules call for.   I did the swagging on the 1/2A racing handles that MBS Model Supply sells.   Biggest thing is getting the brass/copper tubing to just barely fit over the cable.   Don't ever try to swag solid lines.  Maybe I'll try for another pictoral if I get in the mood.

[Dennis Toth]

Dick,
When the swage is done right it is stronger then the wrap. Bob Zambelli (see OTS forum) has done several articles on this (check Control line World) and shown this to be true. You need to use a real ferral (the ones with the end radius to break the sharp edge) and a swage tool. In his articles he gives brand names, I have found that you can get them at a large fishing store by the shark leaders. Even the old three squeeze method shown in the AMA rule book works very good (you need to use round pliers). The only caution with the swage leadouts is to make sure there is clearance off the bellcrank connection so the edge can't catch an edge on any part of the structure and cause it to hang up.

Best,     DennisT

[Robert Zambelli]

Gents: there are a number of swaging pliers available but the T-185, from <SAVACABLE.com> are, in my opinion, the best.
I have done hundreds of cables with them (including some special optics drive cable) and have NEVER has a failure.
The key to a god swage, besides havint the right tool, is using a proper swaging tube. I use only annealed copper tubing in a size that will allow three passes of the cable.
They also sell the finest cable cutter I have ever used. Not cheap but the best usually isn't.

Bob Z.

[Geoff Goodworth]

An important issue to consider with these tools is what you want to swage.

I'm in Oz and the Sava toolsare prohibitively expensive to get here. I found a locally supplied tool that looks the same as the T-185 but it does not go small enough to swage line ends—just leadouts and handle cables. The second tool in Bob's pic looks like it might handle the small sleeves required for lines.

Also, I started exploring this termination method after I bound my first set of leadouts following 45 years away from the sport—they were not pretty.

I found a strong warning amongst the advice that I found in the information supplied by fishing tackle companies.

It stressed the importance of ensuring that there are no burrs on the sleeves and gave the instruction, Do not swage right to the end of the sleeve. Always leave about 1/32" at each end.

The only adverse comment I have seen in several years of following this debate was a control line that had several strands cut by a sharp edge on the sleeve. Allowing the tool to flare the ends of the sleeve should prevent that problem.

[Robert Zambelli]

What Geoff says is absolutely true - burrs on the sleeve can cause problems. I always flare out the ends with a #11 blade such that it forms a smooth conical opening.
Also important - I insure that the sleeve is 1/32 to 1/16 inch longer than the width of the swaging jaws so that the swage does not come out to the ends of the sleeve.
The T-185 will handle four different sleeves, the smallest being 3/32 OD.
I use the tool for swaging leadouts only - NEVER on flying lines.

Geoff - the tool in the second photo is the best cutting tool I have ever used. Unlike standard "dyke" type cutting pliers, it does not smash the cable - instead, it shears the material cleanly, preventing it from unravelling.
The SAVA products are indeed expensive but why not get a few people together and make a single purchase?

If it helps, I will gladly scan my article and send copies to anyone interested.
Bob Z.

[Dick Pacini]

Bob, I would like a copy of the article.  I have sent you a PM with my home address and email address.

Why do you not use the tool on flying lines?

[Robert Zambelli]

Bob, I would like a copy of the article.  I have sent you a PM with my home address and email address.

Why do you not use the tool on flying lines?

Hi, Dick - two reasons:
Main reason is that this tool does not close the sleeve down enough to grip the cables.
Also, I just really like wrapping lines!

Bob Z.

[richardhfcl]

'Ya know, swaging and crimping both work as methods for terminating the lines, but neither look nearly as cool

as wrapped end!  For aesthetics, lines should be wrapped.

[Geoff Goodworth]

Bob, I was referring to the T-188 tool, not the T-185 that you mentioned both here and in your original article.

For control lines, I use the tool supplied by Mel Schuette—shown here with the sleeves that he supplies for lines. Also, I believe that Noel Drindak has been using swaged line terminations for some time. They can look pretty tidy—much tidier than my wraps.

[Robert Zambelli]

I now have my swaging article in "Word" format and I will send it to anyone interested.

Just send your e-mail address to <rzambelli@sc.rr.com>

Bob Z.

[kenneth cook]

            Unfortunately, Mel no longer carries that particular tool any longer. There was some quality control issues with some of them. I have used the tool and was quite impressed with it. I modified a pair of electricians crimping tool for solderless connectors. It works and quite well. I'm quite glad due to the pliers being quite expensive. This required grinding of all other mating surfaces until I achieved the proper crush of the sleeves. This of course renders all other areas of that tool useless. Ken

[Geoff Goodworth]

'For aesthetics, lines should be wrapped.'

You haven't seen mine wrapped ends Richard.

[Elwyn Aud]

Here's a pic of Carl Shoup's  pliers. If I'm remembering correctly  one works on .015-.018's and the other is for .012's. the last time I used them I ran the lines through the sleeve as many times as it would fit and closed down the tubing with the larger swagers and then went back over it with the smaller ones to make sure it was tight.