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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Michael Zaborowski on October 03, 2008, 02:10:04 PM
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Hello all,
My Name is Michael Zaborowksi and I have been flying (sport flying) control line planes for quite a few years. As it goes im in a position to add info and feedback to a certain company that might be willing to listen...
So may I ask a question or two..
IF.. one could have any Super Tiger Engine come back witch would it be?
IF.. one could have any Super Tiger Engine made for UC what would it be *feel free to add details’*
Thanks for your time and kind regards
Michael "Grimracer" Zaborowski
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I think without question it would be the 46. It is still a great engine and the newer ones were even better than the first ones however this was not always true. HB~>
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Hello, Michael, the ST 46 and the ST 60 are both superb "classic" style engines. I'd love to see these come back! You would think that someone could develop a very accurate "copy", sell lots of engines, as well as PARTS to all those Tigre lovers out there...with good quality and excellent service. OK, I'm dreaming...
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The G.21 .46 is a great engine. They still sell second hand for more then most engines new in box. I've never run the .60 but with the G 51 available and affordable, I don't know that there is much need. Personally I don't like large planes (they don't fit in my plane hauler, and take forever to clean) so I'd have to go with the .46. Unfortunately I'm not sure I'd buy one if they were reproduced, I've already picked up more then I'll use in my lifetime.
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I personally would like the X-11. H^^ I have one on an Acromaster and it's a real good runner.
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Hello all,
My Name is Michael Zaborowksi and I have been flying (sport flying) control line planes for quite a few years. As it goes im in a position to add info and feedback to a cretin company that might be willing to listen...
So may I ask a question or two..
IF.. one could have any Super Tiger Engine come back witch would it be?
IF.. one could have any Super Tiger Engine made for UC what would it be *feel free to add details’*
Thanks for your time and kind regards
Michael "Grimracer" Zaborowski
Michael, Did you mean "certain" company or "cretin" company?
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Oho.. thats funny.. Certain.......... ;D.. thanks
Michael
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I have used and loved the G21-46 for a relatively long time, but I have several with low time on them, so I don't need any new exact duplicates of what I have. However, I would buy an updated 46, assuming equal quality to the late Italian ones, probably two of them, if they had either AAC or ABC metallurgy.
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My Name is Michael Zaborowksi and I have been flying (sport flying) control line planes for quite a few years. As it goes im in a position to add info and feedback to a cretin company that might be willing to listen...
Outstanding typo there!
So may I ask a question or two..
IF.. one could have any Super Tiger Engine come back witch would it be?
IF.. one could have any Super Tiger Engine made for UC what would it be *feel free to add details’*
I'm not sure why those two questions are different in this context. But I would say the 46, it's a better stunt engine straight out of the box than the other obvious choice, the 60. Neither would be a match for most currently-made stunt engines, however, and you can still get either one of them if you wanted. So it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to merely clone them. If you start changing them, then go to AAC cylinder/pistons.
Brett
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I'd have to say the G-21 .46 would be the best seller as far as C/L engine options. I'd probably buy one if it was updated to an AAC pis/cyl.
However, I'd also like to see the C-.35 available again.
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G21 .46 modified with either ABC or AAP P&C and plain bearing.
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G21 .46 modified with either ABC or AAP P&C and plain bearing.
Plain bearing? Why?
Brett
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G21-46. Easily.
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Like Randy and others have said - 46G21. As an interim measure how 'bout just taking the existing ST CL engines and re-tuning them so that they run more like the Super Tigres of old. Mine do but they've been modified. I have heard that a stock G-51 can be made to satisfactorily but I have yet to see it. G-34's seem to run two ways...fast and/or erratic. If these engines ran more like say...a ST-46 (or even a Brodak 40) out of the box there might be more of them on the stunt circle. Disclaimer: these statements are based on my personal experience and observations of others.
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As long as we are dreaming, I could go for another G20 .15 diesel. >:D H^^
George
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Let's spell Super Tigre correctly, too! R%%%% I guess I'd like a couple of NIB ST G.21 .29rv ABC's with normale timing. I have a plane ready to put one in. It's 41 years old, tho. Might need a pulltest or two.
LL~ Steve
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As long as we are dreaming, I could go for another G20 .15 diesel. >:D H^^
George
Someone in England is planning to make some repro G 20 .15's
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Plain bearing? Why?
Brett
Weight.
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Super Tigre G21 .46 with "ceramic piston/liner whatever" set-up like Bob Whitely has in his Spitfire. It has all of the power that any modern engine has, and the great characteristics of the box stock Super Tigre .46. It is the perfect engine for the 575 to 700 sq in models. Any power deficiency of the ringed original is more than made up for with this piston/liner. I wish I knew more about it. Maybe Bob or someone will fill in the blanks. I think they came from Australia. I flew a Thunderbird he was testing it in and the difference was like night and day, it's way more powerful than a real good stocker and I have had some real good ones. It cruised through afternoon Tucson wind, no problem.
I would imagine one could sell as many of these engines as they made if they ran and looked as good as the original.
Chris...
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Chris, his name is Brian Gardner and he went by BRISTUNT over on SSW. I haven't seen a post by him in a long time.
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Chris, his name is Brian Gardner and he went by BRISTUNT over on SSW. I haven't seen a post by him in a long time.
There's a website, that was last updated 5 days in the future? http://www.bristunt.com.au/ I've got two of his ABC piston/liner sets for the OS 35S, that are VERY nice. He offered sets for various engines including some Super Tigres but I thought they were all just standard ABC parts?
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The gentleman that was selling ceramic P&L was Tony with Saturn hobbies in OZ.. I bought what he told me was the last two and he wasn't going to make any more because he had a hard time moving them.
I put two ST 46's together and have only ran one.. Have had it in two airplanes (now resides in an ARF Nobler) but I haven't found the right combination to get it to run well. Might be over compressed as it tends to run away and haven't really taken the time to sort it out..
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Tony Cincotta had the ceramic P&L's made. Brian G. has ABC's made...bushed rods, too. I got a setup for an OS .35S from Brian. I need to put it together this winter. y1 Steve
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I sold Bob Whitely the P&L for his .46, as I had a spare set, Bob Reeves is correct , Tony told me that he had a very hard time moving these. He was told that they were too expensive for stunt fliers, at the time if I remember correctly they were about 115.00,plus shipping.
Walter
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How about a balanced ST .60? Great engine if you could lose the vibration.
ST .46s can often absolutely define the term "stunt run". I particularly remember
Kaz Minato's Shark running and ST .46 at VSC many years ago. That engine virtually
bubbled like running water, superb. And the sound contributed to the experience of
observing the excellent flight by Kaz.
Robin and Lou brought a wonderful old Viking to the Cruces contest several years ago,
running a great ST .46. I think another flier or two shared it as well.
The ST .46 has a perfect combination of torque and mild run when it's working.
L.
"I keep tryin' ta think.. but nothin' happens!" -Curly Howard
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Well well.. boil and simmer S?P... this has been a great post.. add a little salt and let it cook man.. GREAT job fellas and thanks for the input!
I have the info I need and if you like you can let this post die if you like (sorry for using you like this... :o ;D )..I kidd.....
Looks like the 21 .46 has taken the lead.. good news to me because I happen to also have one in my engine collection...
Looks like nobody would be disappointed if it came ABC but most would like AAC.. I like the idea of a main bushing but truth is the castings were set for bearings..
So... to sum it up.. what we really want is
ST 21 .46 AAC (ABC is acceptable)
Give me a thumbs up.....
Grim
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I would actually love to see a ST 46 in AAC. AND, the piston/sleeve sets be available separately. I have one set from Brian Gardner, and it looks to be a great fix for the old rings, and the AAC would just be lighter!
I know Brett said the ST 46 isn't stronger than the new engines (love ya Brett!) but they are just sooooo goooood running! I love to use one in a Classic plane. (almost as much as the Aero Tiger .36! LOL!!) A Spacehound or T-Bird II with a ST 46 is just so cool in the air and sounds so good. Hey, us bottom feeders got to get some enjoyment out of all this! LL~ LL~
Mongo
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Brian also includes a new head with his P&L set. I hope to have a ST-46 converted soon and will report on the results. I would suggest putting Brian Gardner and perhaps 2 other ST-46 specialists (one in Georgia, one in LA, most reading this know who they are) on the payroll as consultants to assist in development. I think this engine would go over well but it's got to be done right. As others have noted, peak HP is not as important IMHO as classic stunt running characteristics. Keep the ball bearings...please.
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Hi Pete,
I just thought of an engine that was done as this proposal. The original Double Star 60BB was supposed to be a direct clone of a Big Jim ST 60, IIRC. The engine is a good one, but I don't think sales ever really approached what Tom was hoping for.
A price point consideration is imperative! Unfortunately, many of us are now on a fixed retirement income and we have to budget for a *major* hobby expense such as a NIB engine. Not crying the blues, just stating a relatively constant fact among us aging CLPA fliers who might be the base market for such and engine. If the price starts heading upwards of $200, the target audience will probably opt for another special made engine for such purposes.
As an aside, a good friend of mine has an early Stalker 46, plain bearing. It has identical ruin characteristics of my ST 46s, so I do believe there is some market out there for one.
Mongo
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Good point Bill. The price equation is argueably one of the biggest reasons the engines you mentioned did not do as well as hoped for in this market. I'm hoping that the current ST company would be able to offer this "new" engine at a price that is consistent with the (low) prices they charge for their current lineup.
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Guys,
Truth is im not sure there is going to be a new engine but without getting some idea of what you want or need it does me no good to approach the powers that be about it.
I have to tell you.. thanks again for the info.. a 200 dollar motor on a fixed income is something I did not think of and one of the great things that can come out of the thread like this.
I can assure you 200 dollars would not happen.. even if we had to do a complete engine from top to bottom.. If you know anybody that might be able to help us define what we need im not apposed to learning.. Im far from an expert on UC engines.. If somebody has a motor out there that is killer but the cost is to high.. have them PM me.. lets talk...... If somebody can help me define good timing numbers or head volume im all ears..
My back ground is high performance marine glow motors and this is a very exciting change of pace for me.. gota love that 4-2-4 break… When my good old Mccoy hits em its like music to me.. always has been…
Im not out to suck up to the market or anything like that.. truth is I feel we have left you guys for way to long and I want to approach the powers that be with a new direction.. Trust me this is a HUGE up hill climb...
Thanks
Grimracer
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I agree with the g21 46 but would also love to see more plain brg 56's. They were lighter and just as powerfull as the 60's.