stupid question

[Richard Logston]

I know this is a strange request.Back in the early to mid sixties I built a Ukie and for the life of me I don't remember it's name. I must have built and flown it around 1963-64. The plans came from ether model airplane news or flying models. The airplane was a full bodied stunt with cowled  inverted 29-35 engine, low wing design. I only flew it one time as the McCoy 29 overheated and broke a rod in flight causing me to crash. I still have the broken engine, but no longer have the plans. I remember it flew nice and solid. I know it is a dumb question but does anyone have any experience with a plans built stunter as described during that period? It kind of resembled the Conquistador. Richard

[Trostle]

Assuming it was not a design from the OTS era (designed prior to 1952), there are over 200 designs published between 1953 and 1963.

Did your model have flaps?  Excluding profiles, we might be able to reduce the number to around 100 or so if it flaps or not.  You mentioned it "resembled a Conquistador".  There were two Conquistadors.  One with an elliptical wing.  Not many designs with elliptical wings, though plenty with elliptical wing tips.

Interesting question, but not much to go on.

Keith

[Bob Hunt]

Perhaps the Ruby?

Bob Hunt

[Peter Nevai]

More descriptive please, Was the canopy forward above the wing or rearward, did it have flaps? was the rudder rounded or squarish, same for the stab and elevator. There are literally dozens of designs that would have made it into the model magazines of that era.

[Dan McEntee]

Perhaps the Ruby?

Bob Hunt

     I built a "Ruby" for my first trip to VSC back in the early 90's, and wanted something different that would fit in the smallest box possible to check through as baggage, and powered with a Fox .35, and Ruby fit the bill. When I ran into you there, Bob, you were the only one familiar with the design! It even made the British magazine "Aeromodeler" that summer as one of their columnists was in attendance, just can't remember his name. Anyhow, it has an upright engine mount and I think it only shows that on the plan. Richard needs to squeeze the old brain cells a little more and see what else he can remember that is more specific, and I think we can help him out.
  Type at you late,
  Dan McEntee

[Richard Logston]

Yes it did have flaps. Don't remember the tail outlines. It is strange I can remember every model I ever built in vivid detail except his one. I painted it with a three color horizontal line equally spaced  down the side of the fuselage using Aero Gloss dope. I have gone through the internet checking model mags of that era to no avail yet. It had a bubble canopy I purchased at the local HS. It was located above the wing area. A nice looking design. Richard

[Dan McEntee]

Yes it did have flaps. Don't remember the tail outlines. It is strange I can remember every model I ever built in vivid detail except his one. I painted it with a three color horizontal line equally spaced  down the side of the fuselage using Aero Gloss dope. I have gone through the internet checking model mags of that era to no avail yet. It had a bubble canopy I purchased at the local HS. It was located above the wing area. A nice looking design. Richard

   Let's talk about over all shape. You said inverted, cowled in engine, and low wing. Was it really a low wing, as in well below the engine center line?  Square or rounded wing tips? Tapered or straight flaps? Any dihedral in the wing? Other surfaces squarish or rounded> Fuse or wing mounted gear?  You said bubble canopy, so straight fuselage top and no turtle deck?  If straight fuse top that may be narrowing things down a bit. Now I'l consult Tom Morris' Classic model book.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Richard Logston]

Dan, When I say low wing it may have been close to mid wing but not sure. LG was mtd on a ply fuselage former (Wire gear). I purchased the plan from one of the magazine plan services around 1963 to 64 or so. I ether gave the plan away or lost it in a move to new resident many years ago. My last ukie was a magician with McCoy 35, then the RC bug bit. Flew RC for many years until I built a experimental Starduster SA100 biplane which I flew for 23 years and had to sell it a few years ago because of not passing the flight physical. Returned to building models of various types including U/C. Richard

[Dan McEntee]

  OK, Claire Sieverling and Larry Scarinzi published stunt models in that time period that fit this general description. Do those names ring a bell?  Also, if you bought the plans in '63/'64, they could have been for a design published earlier. I still need to examine the Tom Morris' PAMPA Classic book yet. That and the OTS book of designs needs to be digitized and posted on the web site for people to peruse and research stuff on. We'll get this figured out yet!
    Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

[Phil Spillman]

Perhaps you might find someone with Tom Morris' Classic Stunt Designs magazine wherein there were many outlines of planes from that era. You could wonder over the pages and maybe sole your memory delimma!I am finding the farther I wonder down life's path the more often I have memory/brain fades which consternate me like this!

Phil Spillman

ps What's happened to the spell check on this forum?

[Dan McEntee]

  OK! Based on what little you could remember, I came up with three possibilities from the Tom Morris book. I checked it out starting in january 1960 through 1965. First one is the Phoenician by Claire Sieverling, 11/61 M.A.N. Next is one called Lady Luck by Paul Del Gatto, in the 1962 M.A.N. Annual. Next is the Dolphin by Lew McFarland. It was published in 3/65 M.A.N. and then kitted by Jetco. These all show a cowled .29 to .35 engine but the Dolphin is the only one with wire gear mounted to a ply former that has a straight fuselage top with bubble canopy. The others show flat plate aluminum gear bent to shape and mounted to the bottom of the fuselage. The date is close to what you remember, but I think you may not be remembering that as close as you think. You can google images of the Jetco Dolphin for photos or maybe some in the gallery on the list here.
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

   PS to add: OK, here is where it gets weird. I just flipped through the magazine, and a plan is presented in the article for the Dolphin. When I checked the add for Hobby Helpers for which plan number it was, it isn't listed! There is an add a few pages in front of the Hobby Helpers add for the Jetco Dolphin! It's right above where the last paragraph of the article ends! It should be with plan number 465, and I don't know if i have that plan in my collection or not, but will check tomorrow.

[Guy B Jr]

If you want to see the Dolphin, go the Walter Umland's site at http://www.builtrightflyright.com/ Go to the section for Classic and the Dolphin is the first on on the list.

[Richard Logston]

I'm familiar with the Dolphin having built one a couple years ago. Check out my post " My fleet".I can't thank everyone enough for your input trying to solve this mystery aircraft. I did not expect to see such interest that you all have shown, it speaks volumes as to the dedication and willingness to help others. Again Thanks!! Richard

[Wynn Robins]

pheonician

[Wynn Robins]

lady luck

[Richard Logston]

Lady Luck And Phoenician, sorry good try. Richard

[Dan McEntee]

Lady Luck And Phoenician, sorry good try. Richard

   I don't know what it could be if it wasn't one of those three. I went through Tom Morris' Classic Stunt Model book, page by page from 1960 through 1965 and those were the three that came closest to your description. The Ed Southwick Skylark was in that time span, but it was kind of large for it's time, and no mention of powering it with a .29, and it has sheet metal landing gear shown on the plans. If you built that model I'm sure you would have remembered it. Perhaps your time frame may not be what you remembered it?
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Wynn Robins]

depends entirely if Tom Morris book is just US designs or worldwide - I have 23000 plans on file from all over the globe...  I'll have a look further but you could be pushing it uphill so to speak.  sketchy memory on a plane from the 60s.... 

[Dan McEntee]

I know this is a strange request.Back in the early to mid sixties I built a Ukie and for the life of me I don't remember it's name. I must have built and flown it around 1963-64. The plans came from ether model airplane news or flying models. The airplane was a full bodied stunt with cowled  inverted 29-35 engine, low wing design. I only flew it one time as the McCoy 29 overheated and broke a rod in flight causing me to crash. I still have the broken engine, but no longer have the plans. I remember it flew nice and solid. I know it is a dumb question but does anyone have any experience with a plans built stunter as described during that period? It kind of resembled the Conquistador. Richard

    Well, in his original post, Richard says he got the plans from M.A.N. or Flying Models. Tom's book does show some models from Aeromodeler magazine, but from Richards description, I doubt that he got that magazine back then. it it's small published format, that would have stood out in his mind I think, plus the extra expense of sending off for plans overseas. I think Richard needs to get a hold of some old mags or Tom's book and a cold beverage of his choice and do some serious page flippin'!!
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Peter Nevai]

There was the smoothie, but cannot remember whether it was inverted engine or upright. I think they built tme both ways.

[Richard Logston]

I LOVE A MYSTERY!! Jack, Doc and Reggie, I can remember their names but can't remember this particular airplane. Can you remember their names? I have been looking through the many old mags from that era, so far the only thing that resembles the  mystery plane is the Conquistador. Richard

[Richard Logston]

Just remembered one other clue! It required a shaft extension. Still have it. I have many model airplanes over the years from rubber FF, gliders, U/C, RC u-name it. I can remember all except the mystery plane! Richard

[Trostle]

I LOVE A MYSTERY!! Jack, Doc and Reggie, I can remember their names but can't remember this particular airplane. Can you remember their names? I have been looking through the many old mags from that era, so far the only thing that resembles the  mystery plane is the Conquistador. Richard

If it was similar to the Conquistador, then maybe it had elliptical or near elliptical wings.  Also, if you remember for sure it had a fuselage mounted wire gear, flaps, and inverted engine, bubble canopy like the Conquistador, all of that will narrow the choices down a lot.

Charles Mackey had several that might fall into this list, but none had a wire fuselage mounted gear.

Bob Palmer's Pow Wow, but had straight wings, tapered flaps, rounded tips, fuselage mounted sheet metal gear, turtle deck behind cockpit.  (This was Palmer's design after his Smoothie, Mars, and Venus but before his Thunderbird.)

Sleekster by Earl Clayton - elliptical wing with flaps, fuselage mounted sheet metal gear.  A really nice looking model very similar to the Conquistador.

Feno by Ted Goyet - straight wing with rounded TE flaps and tips, fuselage mounted wire gear

Black Hawk by Walt Pyron - really a semiscale P-40Q, tapered wing with rounded tips.  Fuselage mounted wire gear.

Phoenician by Claire Siverling - almost a semiscale P-51, straight tapered wings with rounded tips, fuselage mounted sheet metal gear. 

Lady Luck by Paul Del Gatto - tapered wings, rounded tips, fuselage mounted sheet metal gear.

Skylark by Ed Southwick - tapered wings, fuselage mounted sheet metal gear.

Sky Devil by Larry Scarinzi - tapered wing, rounded tips, no flaps, fuselage mounted wire gear.

Gambler by Frank McMillan, straight wing, rounded tips, tapered flaps, fuselage mounted wire gear.

That is about it for designs between 1952 and 1964.

There really are not any OTS designs (prior to 1952) that fill the criteria for your "near Conquistador" described above except for Palmer's Smoothie (turtle deck behind cockpit) and Palmers Mars (which you would remember with a trike gear and twin rudders).

There are a few stunt designs that did not get into the Tom Morris book on Classic designs, but none of them come close to the "near Conquistador" criteria listed above.

Keith

[Trostle]

Just remembered one other clue! It required a shaft extension. Still have it. I have many model airplanes over the years from rubber FF, gliders, U/C, RC u-name it. I can remember all except the mystery plane! Richard

Aha!!!

From my list above for your "near Conquistador" candidates, now we limit the design to those that the plans showed a shaft extension, we come up with the Goyet Feno or the Southwick Skylark.

Keith

[Garf]

It sounds a little like one version of the "Miss Behave".

[Trostle]

Feno by Ted Goyet.  Model Airplane News, October 1955.  Still is OTS legal.  Can be built with or without flaps and with upright or inverted engine.

http://www.rsmdistribution.com/index-2.htm

Keith

[Randy Cuberly]

Feno by Ted Goyet.  Model Airplane News, October 1955.  Still is OTS legal.  Can be built with or without flaps and with upright or inverted engine.

http://www.rsmdistribution.com/index-2.htm

Keith

Hi Keith,
I think the Feno is Classic legal to be most correct not truly OTS legal.

Randy Cuberly

[Air Ministry .]

I have 23000 plans on file from all over the globe...

Its going to take you a while to build all of those . Where do you get the balsa ? . 

Richard , youre going to have to sit up at 2 a.m. in the Lotus Position and meditate on it ! .
Associations might help- following a train . Picture kit box or magazine plan-artical , who flew one etc etc ,
so that you get a bit of a field of endevour to nail it down in .

Otherwise Wynn is going to have to list All 23.000 . 

[john e. holliday]

In reality just try and forget the plane design completely.   I have had that problem where I would think of some thing and couldn't come up with it until I got off track on some thing else and out of the clear blue it would come to me.   

[Wynn Robins]

feno attached

[Wynn Robins]

and skylark

[Trostle]

Hi Keith,
I think the Feno is Classic legal to be most correct not truly OTS legal.

Randy Cuberly

Hi Randy,

Yes, the Feno was published in October, 1955.

From the first paragraph of that 1955 article:

"The Feno was basically designed for combat and did very well as such.  It won the 1952 Combat and Special Events Championship.  ...This was with the Western Associated Modelers in California."

So, based on the article, the Feno has been deemed OTS legal.

Besides the plans showing either an upright engine or inverted engine and with fixed or movable flaps, there was a short wing version, the one used for combat and a long wing version for the stunt event.  Now, it could be argued that only the short span version would be OTS legal since, apparently,  Goyet did not fly the long span version for the Stunt event until several years after the design was used for Combat.  And it is not clear if movable flaps were used on the early Combat version.  And for combat, the Feno probably only used the upright engine configuration before the long span Stunt version appeared several years later. 

There is more to this story, but this thread is about looking for a mystery design that had a bubble canopy, wire fuselage mounted gear, inverted engine, maybe an elliptical type wing, a shaft extension shown on the plans, and that it came from plans, either from Flying Models or Model Airplane News prior to 1964.

Keith