Stunt Contest Something Different

[john e. holliday]

I posted something to the effect of the following on another thread and it keeps popping up in this feeble brain of mine.  I have seen and been to contests where the contestants are flown according  to the class they entered.  In this part of the country it is usually two circles and sometimes three.  This I think will work but, who knows.  After all the entries are in, the names will be written on bits of paper, folded and put in a hat.  A beginner if there is one will  draw the names and put on the score board in order of draw.  Depending on number of contestants split the score board about halfway down.  The top half is circle 1 and bottom half circle 2.  Fly a round to completion.  Now take the score board and swap circles.  There should be nothing on the board saying what class the competitor is in.  Also the score sheet should not show the class.  Only the entry  list should have the class for the entrant.  At the end of the second round total the scores.   It wouldn't surprise me a bit to see an Adv score higher than Exp or maybe the Adv score may be lower than Int.  I know I look thru the score boards that are or have been posted on this site.  But, each class has been flown under their own judges. 

Of course this means 4 people will have to give up flying to judge unless you find four people to judge that don't fly and are qualified.  To think of it I may have to try it sometime with help from the club.  Now get the tar good and hot, plus nice soft feathers as I bruise easily.  Have fun,  DOC Holliday

[Clint Ormosen]

I suppose that if you were flying witha bunch of strangers it would work fine. Problem is that after one or two contests, everybody knows what class everyone is flying anyway. Including the judges.

[David Shad]

True...you may or may not know their level...but also everybody has good days and not so good
and in the end anybody has a chance...sounds like a neat idea.  I'll mention it to Tommy and the
guys in Jacksonville and see what they think.

[Bob Reeves]

Several of us in Tulsa have talked about this many times. No reason it won't work, shouldn't matter if the judges know the pilots or not. If the judge is scoring each manover as it's flown it doesn't matter if it's flown by a beginner or expert.

[Gary Anderson]

I suppose that if you were flying witha bunch of strangers it would work fine. Problem is that after one or two contests, everybody knows what class everyone is flying anyway. Including the judges.

Hi Clint,

Enjoyed ya at the Golden State Contest. Maybe Doc has a good idea, if all fliers was dressed the same and had paper bags on their head it would work out. Yes, no peaking from under the bag? Gary

[Alan Hahn]

Hi Clint,

Enjoyed ya at the Golden State Contest. Maybe Doc has a good idea, if all fliers was dressed the same and had paper bags on their head it would work out. Yes, no peaking from under the bag? Gary

Do you at least allow cutouts in the bag for the pilot's eyes! 

[Gary Anderson]

Do you at least allow cutouts in the bag for the pilot's eyes!  

No cut outs, ya have to feel your way through the pattern!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[john e. holliday]

If the great Bob Palmer can do it blind folded, with practice and a couple of hundred planes we should be able to.  Having fun,  DOC Holliday

[Steve Helmick]

Might work fine for a small entry list, but judging more than 20 entrants (40 flights) a day is just too much for our aging population to deal with. That's one of the benefits of Skill Classes. IMOO (In My Old Opinion).  Steve

[john e. holliday]

Two circles, two sets of judges.  Shouldn't be that hard.  Have fun,  DOC Holliday

[Dave Cook]

For what it's worth,
From my experience, as chief judge at many Nat's, mixing skill classes is not a good idea – Judges are not machines they judge by comparison. This includes comparison to the rulebook, comparison to their experience and most important comparison to the previous flyer.

If you mix skill classes you are now disrupting the judge’s concentration of one flyer to another within a class. If a judge goes from a low level Intermediate flyer to a top Expert flyer it disrupts his/her scoring range. In simple terms the judge gets lost as to scoring range within a class - because we have disrupted immediate comparison.  The main reason for scoring is to establish place within a class – i.e. comparison of one flyer to another within a class.

We had to abandon mixing of Advance and Open flyers at the Nat’s because of Judge’s complaints. The computer data backed up their complaints and showed inconsistency in scoring from usually consistent judges when faced with wild swings in skill. As it is the human judge can only handle 4 to 5 flyers accurately - anything beyond that is a crap shoot as to exact placing of 5 thru 10.

Dave Cook

[john e. holliday]

In my mind judges that judge in a range depending on class are not good judges.  I have witnessed pilots put in barn burner flights in Int,  but, did not get the scores to show for it.  Same in ADV.  It shouldn't matter what class a person is flying.  I myself had a judge tell me I had just put a flight in that was great, but, the judges at the time knew I was in Int and the score I got could have been beaten by a beginner.