Length of lines for 26 1/2oz Shark 402?

[Dave Rigotti]

26 1/2 oz Shark 402 on .012" lines.  How long do ya think?  Sport flying with some PA practice.

Lap time?  Sub 5 seconds?

Thanks

[Dave_Trible]

Dave the missing info is what power?

Dave

[Dave Rigotti]

Cobra 2814/20 850kv, 4S 1600 lipo, 10x5 Pusher prop.
Thanks

[Phil Spillman]

Hi Dave, I'd suggest 58' .015 braided steel eyelet to eyelet.

Phil Spillman

[Dave Rigotti]

Phil,
Please why .015" instead of .012"?

Hi Dave, I'd suggest 58' .015 braided steel eyelet to eyelet.

Phil Spillman

[Mike Haverly]

26 1/2 with a battery?

[Dave Rigotti]

Yes. Ready to launch.

26 1/2 with a battery?

[Richard Imhoff]

Nothing to gain with .012 lines other than they are very fragile. No more speed with 15's and last longer compared to 12's

[Dane Martin]

Nothing to gain with .012 lines other than they are very fragile. No more speed with 15's and last longer compared to 12's

100 percent agreed. My only lines to have failed a pull test in a contest were .012's I was using on a light 25 powered plane. Switched to .015's and it felt even gooder, and they're still going strong

[Arlan McKee]

I think you would find it a better handling plane if you cut cut off about  1/3 of that elevator.

[Brent Williams]

Congrats on that weight!  At 26.5oz loaded, it should fly outstandingly well!

For what it's worth, I like flying my very similarly sized LA25 Flite Streak on 58ft (eyelet to eyelet) .015 lines.

Please let us know how you like that combo!

[Brett Buck]

I think you would find it a better handling plane if you cut cut off about  1/3 of that elevator.

   I wouldn't cut if off, but you are right to be concerned, even with electric, that's a whole lot of deflection.  I would be surprised if it can support that much travel in flight. Be sure that you can slow the controls down to get less travel than that with full handle motion, by narrowing the handle spacing or extending the control horn.

    Brett

[Rick_Huff]

We had a Shark 402 with a similar electric system to yours.  We tried 57 and 60' lines and it flew better on the 60 footers.  I think we were flying it at around 5.0 sec laps.

Rick

[Dave Rigotti]

Brett,
Fully adjustable control horn to deal with this.
Thanks

   I wouldn't cut if off, but you are right to be concerned, even with electric, that's a whole lot of deflection.  I would be surprised if it can support that much travel in flight. Be sure that you can slow the controls down to get less travel than that with full handle motion, by narrowing the handle spacing or extending the control horn.

    Brett

[Dave Rigotti]

Rick,
Thank You for your reply. It answers my questions.  I'll go with .015 by 60' with 5.0 sec lap time.

BTW.. She weighs 27oz with the landing gear attached........DOH......

We had a Shark 402 with a similar electric system to yours.  We tried 57 and 60' lines and it flew better on the 60 footers.  I think we were flying it at around 5.0 sec laps.

Rick

[john e. holliday]

The old DOC tried .012 lines on several planes some time ago after flying planes on .015.This is cable lines.   The .012's now collect dust.

[Jim Kraft]

I had a Shark 15 with a Fox 15x that flew well on 52' of .015 lines. The 402 must be somewhat larger than the 15.

[Arlan McKee]

I just received this email message from a Fredf2c. He says:

How many of your designs have won the NATS? Shame on you for posting BAD information the Shark 402 is a good design the elevator is the correct size Your posting should say " My opinion is" Have you ever flown a Shark 402??? Fred

Well, Fred, it goes without saying that anything someone writes is their opinion.
Yes I have flown the 402. A friend gave my son a 402 kit about 15 years ago. In my opinion, (don't want to offend Fred), it flew better after I chopped off about a third of that barn door elevator.

Wash that sand out of your vagina, Fred.

[Brett Buck]

Brett,
Fully adjustable control horn to deal with this.
Thanks

  That should be good to go. The trick is to adjust it so you have just barely enough to stall it with full handle motion. How much travel that is depends to a great degree on the engine/prop you use. The better you hold the speed, the more travel you can tolerate. Governor-only electric is very good, low pitch/high rev is not quite as good, and 4-2 break with high pitch is the worst. If it had feedback electric, you could handle even more travel.

   Brett

[Dave Rigotti]

Talon 25 ESC in high governor mode with Hubin FM-9 timer.  10/5 prop.
Thanks!

  That should be good to go. The trick is to adjust it so you have just barely enough to stall it with full handle motion. How much travel that is depends to a great degree on the engine/prop you use. The better you hold the speed, the more travel you can tolerate. Governor-only electric is very good, low pitch/high rev is not quite as good, and 4-2 break with high pitch is the worst. If it had feedback electric, you could handle even more travel.

   Brett

[C.T. Schaefer]

My 402 has been a go to plane for any conditions. LA .25, stock muffler, 28 oz. I have flown it with 58-60 lines. Both .012 and .015. They all seem to work ok. Best speed high 4's.  TS

[Pat Johnston]

This is Pat Johnston, the designer of the Shark 402. Congrats Dave, your weight with Electric power is perfect. I’m sure it will fly very well for you.
As far as the tail goes, when I send out a kit, there is included a longer horn with three holes that yield 19, 24, and 30 degrees. There is also a note on the plans to use the innermost hole on the bellcrank. If the directions are followed, success will happen.
I converted the original Shark 402 Prototype to electric and the weight is just shy of 27 ounces. I think we are all on the same page here.
Pat Johnston
Advanced Designs
Skunk Works

[Dave Rigotti]

Thanks Pat!  A GREAT design for sure!  Followed the plans and instructions..except made the nose 3/4" longer and used 1/32" ply instead of 1/16".  Test flew it today on 58' lines.  All went well. Control feel just fine with elevator cord per plan.  Wings level and lap speed all set.  CG right at 18% MAC.

[Arlan McKee]

I don't want to leave the impression that I don't like the 402. I think it is a great looking and flying profile. I made it an "engine mule" after my son stopped flying and eventually put a tube for a pressure bladder in place of the tank to try some 19bb and 25bb Foxes I had.
I bought a rib set from Brodak last year to build another one for my Grandson. 

I have a personal preference for controls that have what I would call higher resolution.
When you use the innermost hole in a bellcrank and a long control horn with narrow handle spacing you wind up with controls that, while slow enough, don't have the feel that I personally like.
When I build the next one I will make the elevator smaller while retaining the same horizontal surface area and leave the hinge line in the same spot as the plans.
No offence meant to Pat or anyone else who doesn't  agree with my approach.

[Dave Rigotti]

Lets see... The thread topic was line length right?

[Arlan McKee]

Lets see... The thread topic was line length right?

Yeah, you're right. Threads never wander and no one ever mentions any asides about the model being discussed.