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Author Topic: Strega ARF Trim video and Strega ARF in "Control Line World" written by Windy?  (Read 3937 times)

Offline Charles Carter

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Does anybody have a copy of the Strega ARF trim video?  I have watched the Strega ARF videos series numbering 742-749 and thru out the Strega ARF series Windy  said he intended to make a dedicated Strega ARF trim video.  He also said he had accumulated 40 pages of notes and data for a "Control Line World" article.  Does anybody know which "Control Line World" issue contains the article?


Charles Carter
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 02:31:43 PM by Charles Carter »

Online Robert Zambelli

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Hi, Charles.

I do not recall Windy doing any articles or videos  on trimming the ARF Strega - maybe I missed them.

In any case, at the request of Flying Models magazine, I did a complete build/evaluation article of the aircraft.
I was given the ARF kit and a brand-new SAITO 62 CL engine.

I described the simple build process and added my own comments.

Minor modifications were implemented to accommodate the 4S engine.

Regarding trim, the only things I recall doing were adding some tailweight (around one ounce, as I recall) and moving the leadouts forward.

When I brought to plane to the Brodak Fly-In, I let anyone interested fly it. Many tried it and there was not one complaint, other than the fact that it pulled like a horse - remedied by leadout adjustment.

I had flown quite a few of Windy's planes (Strega, Cardinal, Novanta, Red Baron, etc) and the Strega performed as well as any of them. All comments from those who flew it were very positive.

Then I gave the plane away.

Many people told me to round off the leading edge but my assignment was to evaluate, not modify.

It really impressed me but I'm not a good enough pilot to evaluate aerodynamic changes so I left that to the new owner.

In your case, build it and fly it - make subtle changes in areas that you deem necessary but if it flies to your liking, just fly and enjoy.

What do you plan to power it with?

Bob Z.






Offline Charles Carter

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Hi Bob,

I watched the Strega ARF series of videos  and while viewing them I heard Windy say he intended to make a dedicated Strega ARF trim video.  He said he was going to write a Strega ARF article for "Control Line World".  I am just going by what Windy stated as his intentions.  I don't fault him because I have some very good intentions myself that I haven't done yet either.    If there was a Strega ARF trim video or Strega ARF article written in "Control Line World"   I was hoping to get an opportunity to review it.

Regarding my Strega ARF it is going to be powered by a Stalker 81 RE.  It is not finished yet (I intend on finishing it this week).  So far I have rounded the lead edge of the wing.  As Windy recommended in Strega ARF video series I am also planning to enlarge the rudder ,install a Rabe rudder, and lengthen the landing gear.  If I discover that this plane needs nose weight I will replace  the heavy elevators with lighter 1/4" elevators (Wendy did replace the heavy elevators on his ).  In the same video series Windy also removed a lot wood from the inboard wing tip.


Charles Carter
« Last Edit: August 02, 2016, 09:50:37 AM by Charles Carter »

Online Brett Buck

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Does anybody have a copy of the Strega ARF trim video?  I have watched the Strega ARF videos series numbering 742-749 and thru out the Strega ARF series Windy  said he intended to make a dedicated Strega ARF trim video.  He also said he had accumulated 40 pages of notes and data for a "Control Line World" article.  Does anybody know which "Control Line World" issue contains the article?

   I am not aware of Windy doing anything like that, but it's certainly possible.

    After having helped construct and flying an ARF Strega, there's not a large number of special tricks required. There are only a few problems that I would consider mandatory to fix, other than that, the issues are with the design that cannot be easily corrected, and short of buliding a new airplane from scratch, aren't practical to solve. At least in the Strega, the controls are usable as is, which puts it way ahead of the ARF Nobler, for example.

     Close off the back end of the tank compartment to keep stray fuel out of the rest of the fuselage. Just about anything will do, use 1/16" balsa attached to the rear of the former.

    One of the issues is the fit of the belly pan to the wing and bulkhead (the F2 former). As it came, the kit I worked on had a belly pan that did not quite fit flush with the bottom of the fuse.  Trim the airfoil section of the belly pan until it fits flush with the bottom. There will very likely be a gap at both the front and the back. Strip the front face of the belly pan, and the rear face of F2 including any covering and any epoxy or other glue until you have bare wood on both sides. Tack the belly pan in position, and then carefully fit a wedge of end-grain balsa to fill the gap precisely. This is relatively easy to do with a bandsaw, but can be done with hand tools if necessary. The goal is to fill the gap perfectly with the grain running fore and aft.  Then do the same with the rear/angled end of the belly pan, but instead of the end grain, install 1/8" palsa doublers/joiners on the inside faces of the fuselage that extend across the diagonal cut and glue to that.  When installing, use lots of epoxy to fill up the end grain. Of course, do this BEFORE you fit up the tail, so you can align it to a rigid fuselage.

   It goes without saying, but I will say it anyway - of course you need to remove any covering or glue around the wing saddle top and bottom, on both the fuselage and the wing. Go very careful about stripping the covering on the wing. it would be very tempting to grab an Exacto knife or razor blade and slice it chordwise - but don't, because you will also cut into the sheeting. Lay the edge of the blade flat against the covering where you want to cut, then pull the covering up and that will cut it.

   The only other change is to round of the leading edge of the wing. Strip the covering for about an inch either side. The leading edge is 1/4 square on edge and some sort of hardwood, with the balsa sheeting lapped over it. You cannot go much past 1/4" from the existing "point". Mark a line 1/4" behind the point with a ball-point, top and bottom. Then using some sort of coarse sandpaper on a block, or a Perma-Grit file, sand the leading edge flat until you have a vertical flat surface 3/16" wide from root to tip. The exact dimension is not critical but it does need to be the same from root to tip on both the inboard and outboard. Mark a line right down the center of the flat. Then round off the corners until you have a nice even radius from the pen mark to the centerline mark, leaving both in place but leaving no flat spot at the LE, it should be nice and round. Smooth it out with fine sandpaper. Then cover it with something like more heat-shrink (color optional...) or sticky Monokote to seal it up

   The latter is to prevent the wing from stalling in hard maneuvering. You can leave it alone, but you will be sorry on the first hot day. If you can fly it without stalling, you are probably are flying way too big!

     Note also that this is a BIG model with macho-man drag and requires a macho-man engine. I wouldn't use anything smaller/weaker than an ST60. Maybe a Saito 56 but you will have to thrash it within an inch of its life. Forget the ST51 or any lesser engine.

    Trim is conventional, no surprises. You will never get it to fly like a more modern design like an Impact, but if your forearm is strong enough it will fly reasonably well. The changes above will take you a few hours at most, which is still a heck of a lot easier than building the entire airplane from scratch!

     Brett

  

  

Offline Perry Rose

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The reason, I believe, that the wing leading edge is sharp is that the plans for the kit show a sharp leading edge and not rounded off. The factory made the ARF to the plans. I won a Strega kit, by Brodak, at the Baton Rouge contest several years ago. It was one of the two most difficult kits to build that I have ever tried. Thats where I saw the leading edge on the plans. I used the depicted engine, the Double Star .60 R.E. Lite. It has enough power to pull it through the pattern with ease.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline Joseph Patterson

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           I was wondering where that kit ended up!
       Doug

Offline Perry Rose

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Attempt No. 2.
I'm trying to get some pictures of the model posted and here goes again.
Success finally. Maybe I can find the picture of the original.
http://www.collingsfoundation.org/aircrafts/north-american-36-apache/
More than 200 bombing missions on the same engine.
Graphics by CFC Graphics.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline Shug Emery

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Hey Charles,
This video has Windy Flying the Strega and talking about it..... it is Windy U 777 ARF Flights Novanta Flights  May give some insight.


I had my Strega out Saturday and Sunday and my Enya .61 is breaking in and developing more power as I get familiar with it. Switching around props and trying 13x5, 12.5x6 and 12x5. So far I am most comfortable with the 12x5 prop. Seems to have the speed I like and power t this point in the engines break in. Using 63' lines .18  19 strand.
Handle spacing is 4" on a Brodak red hard point handle. http://brodak.com/control-line-parts/handles/brodak-large-adjustable-handle.html
Getting lap times on that set up from 5.2 to 5.07 at end of flight. Sometimes a hair faster as I am learning the needle.
So far getting a whole pattern and about ten extra laps with 4.5 ozs of fuel. Omega control line fuel 10%  11% castor/11%synthetic....http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXBAEH&P=SM Not sure if it is the best for this but it is what I have at this time.

Here is a video of Saturdays last flight. Not a wonderful pattern and I was just fooling around so omitted some of it. Got windy! I had a 1/2 oz of lead on the tail but was a bit touchy coming out of manuvers on the bottom. Took that off and it was much better.
First flights my wing was high but I treaked my flaps and fixed that. Also added more tip weight.



When I assembled my Strega I did round off the leading edge. Left the bellcrank as is. It looked good. Changed the pushrods to carbon fiber. Beefed up the nose a bit. And yes the belly pan had a gap but filled it with balsa much as Brett mentioned above.
I did make new flaps with thicker stock as I read on here that the thin ones in the kit could be improved. I reckon it helped. It turns nice.

I am really starting to enjoy flying the Strega. Yes, it has some good pull. Feels manly! I may start cheating the leadouts forward a bit in time but right now I want line tension.
Remember....I am not scientific. I just go out and fly and try to learn.
Carry forth.
Shug







Whoooooo Buddy)))))))

Online Brett Buck

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The reason, I believe, that the wing leading edge is sharp is that the plans for the kit show a sharp leading edge and not rounded off. The factory made the ARF to the plans.

   I am sure that is true, however, it was a big mistake that make it very touchy to fly. I suspect that many of the originals (and the airplanes leading up to it) were similar to the ARF/ARC. I believe that the unusual shape around the leading edge (pointy, and a 45-degree "departure angle") probably led to the notion it needed to be so thick and have large flaps. It appears to have been designed to fair smoothly into the LE wood, which leads to the flat spot right behind the LE. There are plenty of airplane flying today that have airfoils less than half as thick (much less in some cases) flying at much higher wing loading that have no particular problems.

   The Strega that Kent Tysor flies is completely different in that area, so blunt that it could not be replicated on the ARF without cutting past the LE wood. That's actually an interesting idea - if you took the completed wing, cut about 2" right off the front, and remade the leading edge with conventional construction  (more-or less parabolic shape with 1/4x1" leading edge wood set vertically) and ribs scarfed on the flat front of the remaining parts,  then sheet it, you could achieve the shape Kent's airplane has. It;s plausible only given the fact that, again, you saved 6 months by not having to build the rest of the airplane.

   I haven't tried that and I don't recommend it, but its an interesting idea.
 
  Here is a link to the Brodak instructing telling you to round off the leading edge, from either the kit or ARC (insert at bottom of page):

http://www.brodak.com/files/file/Strega_Building_Wing_Instructions.pdf

   Brett

Offline john e. holliday

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If I remember right, back in the day if the kit did not have a preformed leading edge like the Ringmaster or Flite Streak, it had a square piece of wood for the leading edge.  I also remember years ago when I got to see the late Johnnie Clemmons in his shop we were talking planes and how they flew.   He related about a young man who had anew plane that was flown that say for the first time.   It was very erratic and could not be held level during flight.   He asked the young lad if he could do some carving on the plane.  After the okay he proceeded to reshape the leading edge making it nice and round.   He said it made a world of difference in the plane and wondered why some kits never mentioned rounding the leading edge.  Yes the plane was refinished after that day.   

Johnnie's shop was a small museum for me that day.
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Online Brett Buck

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If I remember right, back in the day if the kit did not have a preformed leading edge like the Ringmaster or Flite Streak, it had a square piece of wood for the leading edge.  I also remember years ago when I got to see the late Johnnie Clemmons in his shop we were talking planes and how they flew.   He related about a young man who had anew plane that was flown that say for the first time.   It was very erratic and could not be held level during flight.   He asked the young lad if he could do some carving on the plane.  After the okay he proceeded to reshape the leading edge making it nice and round.   He said it made a world of difference in the plane and wondered why some kits never mentioned rounding the leading edge.  Yes the plane was refinished after that day.   

Johnnie's shop was a small museum for me that day.

  Yes, and I think that led to exactly this problem and some quite erroneous design trends, like the excessively large flaps (starting with the Nobler). They kept having issues and concluded that the flaps needed to be bigger to prevent the stall. Later still, they starting making the airfoil thicker, still with the same fundamental problem. That also arose from needing some way to absorb excess power.

  It is perfectly clear that the very thin Granderson "Diva" airfoil and similar , something like 1/3 the thickness of a Patternmaster or similar, can handle more wing loading than the gigantically thick wings with the "1/4" square on edge" leading edges. The ARF Strega is pretty heavy but its also pretty big and the wing loading is not at all out of bounds, and the one little change fixed it right up.

   Brett


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