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Author Topic: Strega ARF Overview ViDEO)))))  (Read 37737 times)

Offline Shug Emery

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Strega ARF Overview ViDEO)))))
« on: February 13, 2015, 08:44:46 AM »
Just got home from the road and the HUGE box from Brodak was sitting there. Took it to my Nut-Hut and checked it out, laid it together just to see the size. It looks so big compared to my .40 size planes. The excitement is palpable.
ARF kit looks real good...updated modified instructions. Large bellcrank and fiberglass pushrod. Covering actually looks real good to me with minimal wrinkles.
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Shug




« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 05:50:47 PM by Shug Emery »
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Offline mike londke

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2015, 09:05:46 AM »
I am sure someone else will chime in with the "how to" but you need to beef up the nose in the Strega ARF. I have seen no less than 3 of them come apart. One of them took the tank with it and the engine was still running as it departed. I am sure there are many threads on here about the weakness of the nose and how to beef it up. If this a newer version with updates, Brodak may have already addressed this issue. So it may be ok. I would hate to see you lose it. My buddy's broke on the 2nd flight. He called John Brodak and John sent him a new one. Mike
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Offline Shug Emery

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2015, 09:16:51 AM »
I am sure someone else will chime in with the "how to" but you need to beef up the nose in the Strega ARF. I have seen no less than 3 of them come apart. One of them took the tank with it and the engine was still running as it departed. I am sure there are many threads on here about the weakness of the nose and how to beef it up. If this a newer version with updates, Brodak may have already addressed this issue. So it may be ok. I would hate to see you lose it. My buddy's broke on the 2nd flight. He called John Brodak and John sent him a new one. Mike
How long ago was that Mike? Seem solid. Maybe excitement coming my way.
Shug
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Offline Motorman

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2015, 10:10:42 AM »
Anything bigger than 650 Sq.In. is penis envy.


MM

Offline Shug Emery

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2015, 10:16:02 AM »
Anything bigger than 650 Sq.In. is penis envy.


MM
I never envy mine.......
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2015, 10:52:29 AM »
How long ago was that Mike? Seem solid. Maybe excitement coming my way.
Shug

  The issue is around where the belly pan connects to the nose. That needs to be stripped to bare wood on both sides, then filled up tight with end-grain balsa and lots of epoxy, then fuel-proofed. Otherwise, the joint there breaks almost immediately, then all you have holding the nose is the wood going around the top of the wing.

   The other issue is that you need to blunt the LE of the wing - it's described in several threads here. Check for warps, too, either correct or ask for a replacement if necessary.

    Ted Fancher and I built one and it took a fair bit of work to get it safe to fly. It's a big airplane and needs a big strong engine, and we got it flying OK with some effort. But you will not be flicking it around the pattern like a Flite Streak no matter what you do, it's a real load and takes some man-muscles.

    Brett

Offline Shug Emery

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2015, 11:08:33 AM »
 The issue is around where the belly pan connects to the nose. That needs to be stripped to bare wood on both sides, then filled up tight with end-grain balsa and lots of epoxy, then fuel-proofed. Otherwise, the joint there breaks almost immediately, then all you have holding the nose is the wood going around the top of the wing.

   The other issue is that you need to blunt the LE of the wing - it's described in several threads here. Check for warps, too, either correct or ask for a replacement if necessary.

    Ted Fancher and I built one and it took a fair bit of work to get it safe to fly. It's a big airplane and needs a big strong engine, and we got it flying OK with some effort. But you will not be flicking it around the pattern like a Flite Streak no matter what you do, it's a real load and takes some man-muscles.

    Brett
I'm gonna look at all of that. Have read most of the threads on it.
Checked the wing and it looks very straight. Now to decide to peel the covering back and sand that leading edge. Reckon I will. For sure I will. Thanks Brett
As to the muscle....I think I got it.  :##
Shug

« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 11:36:09 AM by Shug Emery »
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Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2015, 11:26:41 AM »
Shug,

I at least know what your using as motion potion for the beast.


Dennis

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2015, 02:00:04 PM »
It's not the mass of the muscle, it's the weight, total weight.  That is why I stay with 46 size planes as my 275+ pounds keeps getting pulled out  of the circle on windy days..
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Offline bruce finley

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2015, 04:54:29 PM »
Just build in a little left rudder and it'll take a little tension off....

At least for one flight! LL~ LL~ LL~

Offline Shug Emery

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2015, 08:48:44 PM »
It's not the mass of the muscle, it's the weight, total weight.  That is why I stay with 46 size planes as my 275+ pounds keeps getting pulled out  of the circle on windy days..
Excited to feel that feel))))

Just build in a little left rudder and it'll take a little tension off....

At least for one flight! LL~ LL~ LL~
Like riding the Scrambler I reckon.....
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Online Robert Zambelli

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2015, 09:35:14 PM »
Shug - I built the first ARF Strega and did an article in Flying Models.
The plane was powered by a SAITO 62 CL and flew quite well with minimal trimming.
The only modification I made was to add an intake for the SAITO.
I brought it to the Fly-In and let everyone fly it.
After over 40 flights, there was absolutely no sigh of any stress cracks or damage to the fuselage.

I donated the plane/engine to the Brodak Museum and it was auctioned off.
As far as I know it is still flying after five years.

The article documented the entire build process.

If you want, I can send you a copy of the article.

Bob Z.

Offline Jared Hays

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2015, 09:54:31 PM »
I love mine although I made a lot of changes...  Biggest thing is shaving down rounding off leading edge of wing. Also recovered it with mono-kote.



Offline Jared Hays

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2015, 09:55:52 PM »
Here is my video after I got it trimmed out well.


Offline Shug Emery

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2015, 11:29:42 PM »
Shug - I built the first ARF Strega and did an article in Flying Models.
The plane was powered by a SAITO 62 CL and flew quite well with minimal trimming.
The only modification I made was to add an intake for the SAITO.
I brought it to the Fly-In and let everyone fly it.
After over 40 flights, there was absolutely no sigh of any stress cracks or damage to the fuselage.

I donated the plane/engine to the Brodak Museum and it was auctioned off.
As far as I know it is still flying after five years.

The article documented the entire build process.

If you want, I can send you a copy of the article.

Bob Z.

Hey Bob Z....good to hear from ya' feller.
I'd love a copy of the article. Truly.
Hoping to get to Huntersville in the Fall again and am going to work that OTS this Summer.
I'll PM you.
Shug
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Offline Shug Emery

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2015, 12:09:22 AM »
I love mine although I made a lot of changes...  Biggest thing is shaving down rounding off leading edge of wing. Also recovered it with mono-kote.


Hey there Jared....I have looked at your Strega several times in the past. Then watched Windy's videos. Been on my mind since. I will blunt down my leading edge for sure.
Your looks mighty fine
Shug
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Offline Shug Emery

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2015, 12:11:04 AM »
Here is my video after I got it trimmed out well.


That was a great flight and good watching your handle and hand too. I'd seen it but watched it with new vigor this time. And will watch it again.....
Did you find a big difference with the rounded leading edge in flights?
Also, what length lines are you going with and what size lines? .018?
Hard point improved corners?
Looked real nice.
Thankee.
Shug
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Offline Jim Carter

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2015, 10:41:50 AM »
Here is my video after I got it trimmed out well.


WOW!!  Very nice!  Very nice indeed!!  This gives me some inspiration to open my kit and get busy!!  What engine are you using??  What size lines are you using?

Jim

Online Robert Zambelli

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2015, 11:11:54 AM »
Hi, Shug - if you send me your address, I will mail you a disc with the article and photos.

Pay close attention to the parts about the engine and trimming to eliminate some of the pull.
As I recall, I used .018 x 65.

I would highly recommend the SAITO 62 CL or an ST 60.

Dee was one of the many people who tried the Strega at Brodaks.
See what I mean about pull?

  Bob Z.

Offline Shug Emery

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2015, 12:34:36 PM »
Hi, Shug - if you send me your address, I will mail you a disc with the article and photos.

Pay close attention to the parts about the engine and trimming to eliminate some of the pull.
As I recall, I used .018 x 65.

I would highly recommend the SAITO 62 CL or an ST 60.

Dee was one of the many people who tried the Strega at Brodaks.
See what I mean about pull?

  Bob Z.
Thankee, thankee Bob.
I will read up and peruse it diligently.
That Dee looks like she has it tamed to me))))))
I have either a Magnum .52 re-worked by Randy Smith or an Enya .61 SXC PRO that I just bought to go on the nose.
Whoooooo Buddy)))))))

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2015, 12:49:10 PM »
Go with the Enya. The Strega has a real draggy wing. I built the kit and it's powered with a Double Star .60 Lite R.E. I think the reason the leading edge isn't blunted at the maker is that the plans show a pointed leading edge. 65 foot .018 and a 12 x 6 BY&O.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
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Offline Shug Emery

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2015, 12:57:10 PM »
Go with the Enya. The Strega has a real draggy wing. I built the kit and it's powered with a Double Star .60 Lite R.E. I think the reason the leading edge isn't blunted at the maker is that the plans show a pointed leading edge. 65 foot .018 and a 12 x 6 BY&O.
Thanks Perry. Leaning toward the Enya as I hear from everyone. May get something else for the .52.
I appreciate your line lengths.
Shug



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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2015, 02:30:37 PM »
Go with the Enya. The Strega has a real draggy wing. I built the kit and it's powered with a Double Star .60 Lite R.E. I think the reason the leading edge isn't blunted at the maker is that the plans show a pointed leading edge. 65 foot .018 and a 12 x 6 BY&O.

  Definitely need some beef up front, you aren't going to be happy with a 46LA or ST51 in this case. Ted used a Ruslter-Merco 60 Metamorph in the one he and I put together (and was flown by The Unknown Pilot 1 and 2 to win the first-ever International ARF-Off), and that was plenty.

    The airfoil is grossly thicker than necessary and the flaps are much larger to (I think) compensate for the other defects in the airfoil. The better Patternmaster clones typically do not have the sharp point. I would expect that it is not blunted at the factory because that operation would take more time than building the rest of the wing. Sandpaper is not part of the process, cut out parts, glue together, cover, ship. In this case the LE wood is some sort of stringy hardwood* like  soft red oak  or something. It's not that easy to carve. I know, I did it. But it will certainly yield to a coarse Perma-Grit  file.

    It will pull pretty hard in any case, and you don't/can't really afford to lighten up the line tension too much, because the control loads are also astronomical. No line tension  = not enough corner, which isn't stellar to begin with. I think the way that Windy and company trimmed them is probably the way to do it, lots of line tension to permit you to overcome the control loads, and lift more weights. The grossly excessive rudder offset it probably not required, but I don't think putting in inboard  is going to help you. I think all the line length you can get will also help.

    The wing loading is actually not all that bad, since it is so big. Fix the airfoil and it should be OK.

     Brett
« Last Edit: February 15, 2015, 12:11:00 PM by Brett Buck »

Offline kenneth cook

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2015, 02:34:04 PM »
             I have a Evolution .60 for my Strega if I ever get around to it. I actually can't wait to try it. Ken

Offline Shug Emery

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Re: Strega ARF Overview ViDEO)))))
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2015, 12:18:31 AM »
Here are some detail pictures of the front end motor mounts, tank compartment, cooling vents and such.
Started rounding down the leading edge tonight. I'm glad it was suggested.
Shug

















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Offline Shug Emery

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2015, 12:21:47 AM »
  The issue is around where the belly pan connects to the nose. That needs to be stripped to bare wood on both sides, then filled up tight with end-grain balsa and lots of epoxy, then fuel-proofed. Otherwise, the joint there breaks almost immediately, then all you have holding the nose is the wood going around the top of the wing.

   The other issue is that you need to blunt the LE of the wing - it's described in several threads here. Check for warps, too, either correct or ask for a replacement if necessary.

    Ted Fancher and I built one and it took a fair bit of work to get it safe to fly. It's a big airplane and needs a big strong engine, and we got it flying OK with some effort. But you will not be flicking it around the pattern like a Flite Streak no matter what you do, it's a real load and takes some man-muscles.

    Brett
Hey Brett....are you saying fill the belly pan with balsa or to add balsa to the wing on the inside? Having a bit of trouble picturing this.
Thankee a bunch.
Shug
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Online Carl Cisneros

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Re: Strega ARF Overview ViDEO)))))
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2015, 08:53:19 AM »
Shug;
Take some 1/4" triangular stock, cut slits in it so it can conform to the inner profile of the wing seat area of BOTH the
belly pan and fuse, glue it in to place along the belly pan and fuse where the wing gets glued in at.
This will give you a much larger gluing surface for the wing/fuse/belly pan glue joint.
very little weight added at all.
I hope this made sense.

Carl

Oh, and don't forget to peel back (cut off) some of that iron on covering along the fuse/belly pan to allow better glue joint.
just one more thing, IF the motor mounting beams are a bit on the soft side, i would suggest using thread-serts for mounting the motor in place.
like these from tower hobbies: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXE069&P=7
They will prevent the motor from mushing in to the wood. I have used these when I was flying F3A (FAI Pattern) and well as using them in
racing mono and hydroplane racing.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2015, 09:21:28 AM by Carl Cisneros »
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Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Strega ARF Overview ViDEO)))))
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2015, 09:05:50 AM »
Here's what I did to the Brodak Strega kit.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
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Online Carl Cisneros

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Re: Strega ARF Overview ViDEO)))))
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2015, 09:22:39 AM »
MMMMMMMMMMMMM, me likeeeee !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  #^ #^
Carl R Cisneros, Dist IV
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Offline Shug Emery

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Re: Strega ARF Overview ViDEO)))))
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2015, 10:37:32 AM »
Shug;
Take some 1/4" triangular stock, cut slits in it so it can conform to the inner profile of the wing seat area of BOTH the
belly pan and fuse, glue it in to place along the belly pan and fuse where the wing gets glued in at.
This will give you a much larger gluing surface for the wing/fuse/belly pan glue joint.
very little weight added at all.
I hope this made sense.

Carl

Oh, and don't forget to peel back (cut off) some of that iron on covering along the fuse/belly pan to allow better glue joint.
just one more thing, IF the motor mounting beams are a bit on the soft side, i would suggest using thread-serts for mounting the motor in place.
like these from tower hobbies: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXE069&P=7
They will prevent the motor from mushing in to the wood. I have used these when I was flying F3A (FAI Pattern) and well as using them in
racing mono and hydroplane racing.
That makes total sence to me and I can see it in my addled mind.
Actually on the supplemental instructions they have metal tubes going through the motor mounts and metal engine pads. I think they have upgraded a lot on this ARF.
Thankee.
Whoooooo Buddy)))))))

Offline Shug Emery

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Re: Strega ARF Overview ViDEO)))))
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2015, 10:38:03 AM »
Here's what I did to the Brodak Strega kit.
Wow. I really like the looks of that. Truly.
Whoooooo Buddy)))))))

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2015, 11:49:00 AM »
Hey Brett....are you saying fill the belly pan with balsa or to add balsa to the wing on the inside? Having a bit of trouble picturing this.
Thankee a bunch.
Shug

  Neither, or at least that's not what we did. When you put the belly pan in place, there is a joint between it and the former (F2) right in front of the wing. That joint is a severe weak point, and in some cases there is a gap. Face off the front of the belly pan until you get to clean bare wood all the way across. Same with F2. Reassemble, and there will be a gap from where the material is missing. Put everything in place, make the gap even with a perma-grit file or something. Then cut a slice of end-grain balsa to perfectly fit the gap. Then when ready to assemble, glue it in with lots of epoxy (since your 3/32 or 1/8 end grain spacer will have pores that go all the way through, and you need to fill them up).

   Same at the *rear* end of the belly pan, of course. Try not to twist the rear of the fuselage as you assemble the belly pan, but for sure don't install the tail until the rest of it is assembled completely and the glue is cured everywhere else. That way you can shave the stab platform to make sure it is parallel to the wing in all three dimensions. Nothing is more important. Even 1/32 of skew in the tail, for instance, might make it completely untrimmable. That's the same with any airplane.

    Of course, clean off all the monokote from the joining surfaces  wing and fuselage, both on the belly pan and the rest of the fuselage, until you get clean bare wood all the way across the joints. If you have to shim it to fix any gaps, do so, with hard balsa - I would put the grain running spanwise and glue the shims to the wing (which you should also clean of any covering or stray glue to get to *bare wood*).

    If you are a real stickler, it wouldn't be a bad idea to, once it is assembled, inlay a series of 3/16" square x 2" spruce pieces right across the joint, or strip the covering and fiberglass it.

    I saw from some other thread that you plan on a Magnum 52, which should not be a bad shaker, so this is possibly overkill. On the other hand, a very critical part of the original "Big Jim" approach to getting engines to run was building the fuselage, particularly the nose, very rigid. When it was made an ARF, putting a butt joint right at the front of the wing,  a fair fraction of which had monokote as the mating surface, did not continue that plan. There was probably no other way to do it with the wing in one piece and having to fit in the box for shipping, but right where the nose meets the very rigid wing LE is where all the stress concentrates.

     Brett

 p.s. I note that yours seems to have monokote completely covering the wing/fuselage joint on both sides. Removing it from the fuse should be pretty easy, just peel it up. Be VERY CAREFUL, however, removing it from the wing. The temptation will be to take a ruler and a sharp #11 blade and slice off a 1/4" strip. But don't do that because it will be nearly impossible to manage that without cutting into the center section sheeting - again, the very worse place to leave a weak spot. To remove it hold a razor blade flat against the surface with the edge where you want the cut to be, then lift the covering up with the corner of an exacto knife and pull it against the razor blade edge. It won't be all that even because you will have to go in 1" segments, but at least you won't cut into the wood. An alternative is to use a soldering iron or woodburning tool to melt a line in the covering, but again, that risks scoring the balsa sheeting underneath.

   You must remove the covering from the joining surfaces because the covering and the covering adhesive makes for a very poor joint.

   Also, before you mix any glue check that the "key" that keys the wing to the fuse is straight. Many people have had Vectors with that key misaligned, and if you don't do something, the wing will be skewed with respect to the fuselage. Trim as necessary, again, being very careful to again not cut into the center section sheeting.

It wouldn't hurt anything to glob on some Epoxolite on the ends of the motor mounts when assembling, to make sure the motor mounts are firmly glued to the top of the "key".

p.p.s. I don't recall there being a hole at the rear end of the tank compartment on the one I worked on. I would fuel proof the tank compartment, and then close that hole off so fuel cannot get into the rest of the fuselage.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2015, 12:14:32 PM by Brett Buck »

Offline EddyR

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Re: Strega ARF Overview ViDEO)))))
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2015, 12:40:23 PM »
 I helped a friend with one when they first came out. I cut slots in the firewall and added 1/16 plywood doublers that extended into the bottom cover. I cut the curved part of the body bottom cover off and glued the cover in place,first removing all the plastic covering on all edges. Glued the curved part back on and added a very small fillet of epoxy all around the wing.The fillet did not show at all. We did not do the leading edge as no one had mentioned it yet. I gave him a K&B 61 for it and it flew great. Weight about 70 ounces ready to fly. My friend is deceased now. It is some where in NYS now and may have been refinished in tissue and dope.
Ed
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Online Robert Zambelli

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Re: Strega ARF Overview ViDEO)))))
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2015, 01:51:56 PM »
Shug - check your e-mail.
  Bob z.

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Re: Strega ARF Overview ViDEO)))))
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2015, 02:21:18 PM »
Brett;

Good catch. I completely forgot about doing that to that model.
I did the same thing you did as well to my T-Rex arf. NICE AND SOLID.   ~>
Carl R Cisneros, Dist IV
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Strega ARF Overview ViDEO)))))
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2015, 02:23:42 PM »
Here's what I did to the Brodak Strega kit.

Hi Perry,

Can you point me to where you got the decals for yours?  I have a lot of trouble finding decals that are the "right" size!

Thanks!
BIG Bear
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Strega ARF Overview ViDEO)))))
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2015, 02:34:22 PM »
Hi Shug,

I think you will really enjoy flying your Strega.  It is basically a Patternmaster designed by the late, great, "Big" Jim Greenaway.  Windy used the basic of the PM for several of his models.

I got a Strega ARC through a deal with someone, I forget who, now.  Maybe Rich Peabody??  Anyway I have one of Big Jim's Hemi ST .60s for motivation as per the original and I have changed out the lead outs.  That's about all the mods I will do.  Since it came uncovered, the other mods will be much easier to construct.

Kent Tysor has flown Stregas exclusively for quite a while now.  He adds a turtle deck plus the underwing  radiator of the actual plane.  He won Advanced at the NATS and pulled off a NATS Top 20 the next year or so.  They can be real good fliers!  Good luck with yours!

BIG Bear
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Strega ARF Overview ViDEO)))))
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2015, 02:59:53 PM »

Kent Tysor has flown Stregas exclusively for quite a while now.  He adds a turtle deck plus the underwing  radiator of the actual plane.  He won Advanced at the NATS and pulled off a NATS Top 20 the next year or so.  They can be real good fliers!  Good luck with yours!

  The ARF isn't much like Kent's model, particularly in the details. The LE radius, for example, on Kent's model, cannot be replicated with the ARF, or if you tried to, you would end up sanding all the way through the LE wood on the ARF. I made a point to check that shortly after the ARF-Off, at the Team Trials, where Kent flew it. I would guess the LE radius on Kent's airplane is something like 1/2" or more and the "departure angle" where it transitions from the radius to the rest of the airfoil is much steeper.

  The ARF isn't all that close to the original Patternmaster, either, at least not the faithful reproductions like Mike Roger's silver and black one, which was clearly at the head of the class of the ST60 models that I saw. And his was *in proper trim* which put it way ahead of most of them at the time. It's much closer to the Cardinal series that made significant deviations from the original.

    That doesn't really matter too much, the ARF can be made to fly about as well as any of the attempted Patternmaster clones. The original was designed to take advantage of, and minimize the shortcomings of, the ST60, so it really needs that kind of power. It's never going to be an Impact, but it predated the Impact by at least 10 years. And time marches on.

   The deviations on the ARF are exactly what you would need to do to make it manufacturable. There aren't a bunch of people with sanding blocks and templates spending an hour or two per wing getting it exactly the right shape and symmetrical. That alone might double the cost and manufacturing time. But it's a simple matter to glue some sheets to a square hardwood strip. A few hours spent at the user end trying to fix a few less-than-ideal features can be weighed against the fact that you *didn't spend 6 months building the parts in the first place*. It's kind of miraculous that you can buy it, retail, for the price they ask, just think of how long it takes and multiply that by the minimum wage.


    Brett

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2015, 03:24:03 PM »
 Neither, or at least that's not what we did. When you put the belly pan in place, there is a joint between it and the former (F2) right in front of the wing. That joint is a severe weak point, and in some cases there is a gap. Face off the front of the belly pan until you get to clean bare wood all the way across. Same with F2. Reassemble, and there will be a gap from where the material is missing. Put everything in place, make the gap even with a perma-grit file or something. Then cut a slice of end-grain balsa to perfectly fit the gap. Then when ready to assemble, glue it in with lots of epoxy (since your 3/32 or 1/8 end grain spacer will have pores that go all the way through, and you need to fill them up).

   Same at the *rear* end of the belly pan, of course. Try not to twist the rear of the fuselage as you assemble the belly pan, but for sure don't install the tail until the rest of it is assembled completely and the glue is cured everywhere else. That way you can shave the stab platform to make sure it is parallel to the wing in all three dimensions. Nothing is more important. Even 1/32 of skew in the tail, for instance, might make it completely untrimmable. That's the same with any airplane.

    Of course, clean off all the monokote from the joining surfaces  wing and fuselage, both on the belly pan and the rest of the fuselage, until you get clean bare wood all the way across the joints. If you have to shim it to fix any gaps, do so, with hard balsa - I would put the grain running spanwise and glue the shims to the wing (which you should also clean of any covering or stray glue to get to *bare wood*).

    If you are a real stickler, it wouldn't be a bad idea to, once it is assembled, inlay a series of 3/16" square x 2" spruce pieces right across the joint, or strip the covering and fiberglass it.

    I saw from some other thread that you plan on a Magnum 52, which should not be a bad shaker, so this is possibly overkill. On the other hand, a very critical part of the original "Big Jim" approach to getting engines to run was building the fuselage, particularly the nose, very rigid. When it was made an ARF, putting a butt joint right at the front of the wing,  a fair fraction of which had monokote as the mating surface, did not continue that plan. There was probably no other way to do it with the wing in one piece and having to fit in the box for shipping, but right where the nose meets the very rigid wing LE is where all the stress concentrates.

     Brett

 p.s. I note that yours seems to have monokote completely covering the wing/fuselage joint on both sides. Removing it from the fuse should be pretty easy, just peel it up. Be VERY CAREFUL, however, removing it from the wing. The temptation will be to take a ruler and a sharp #11 blade and slice off a 1/4" strip. But don't do that because it will be nearly impossible to manage that without cutting into the center section sheeting - again, the very worse place to leave a weak spot. To remove it hold a razor blade flat against the surface with the edge where you want the cut to be, then lift the covering up with the corner of an exacto knife and pull it against the razor blade edge. It won't be all that even because you will have to go in 1" segments, but at least you won't cut into the wood. An alternative is to use a soldering iron or woodburning tool to melt a line in the covering, but again, that risks scoring the balsa sheeting underneath.

   You must remove the covering from the joining surfaces because the covering and the covering adhesive makes for a very poor joint.

   Also, before you mix any glue check that the "key" that keys the wing to the fuse is straight. Many people have had Vectors with that key misaligned, and if you don't do something, the wing will be skewed with respect to the fuselage. Trim as necessary, again, being very careful to again not cut into the center section sheeting.

It wouldn't hurt anything to glob on some Epoxolite on the ends of the motor mounts when assembling, to make sure the motor mounts are firmly glued to the top of the "key".

p.p.s. I don't recall there being a hole at the rear end of the tank compartment on the one I worked on. I would fuel proof the tank compartment, and then close that hole off so fuel cannot get into the rest of the fuselage.

Wow...thanks for all the detail Brett. I will adhere to all of this.
Meeting up with Keith Sandberg to access the front end beef-ups. They do say in the supplemental instructions now to seal the front then close that hole at the rear of the tank compartment with some balsa and epoxy it all.
I get wht you are saying on the belly pan and it makes big time sense. Mine has a gap for sure.
Thanks a bunch for all your input.
Shug




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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2015, 03:37:09 PM »
I get wht you are saying on the belly pan and it makes big time sense. Mine has a gap for sure.
Thanks a bunch for all your input.

     And you are going to take more off of all the mating surfaces before you are done to get everything to flat, clean, wood, But it looks like, in the picture, that the pan is too far towards the rear. Should scoot it forward a bit, that will close that gap up a bit and make it sit down in the front. Then check the rear, and check that it sits flush with the rest of the fuselage. You may have to trim the saddle a bit to get it to sit flush, but wait to do the finish fitting until the wing is glued to the fuselage. You will likely have to trim the saddle part of the main fuselage, too, to get the wing in line with no gaps.

     Brett


Offline Shug Emery

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Re: Strega ARF Overview ViDEO)))))
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2015, 06:03:59 PM »
Hi Shug,

I think you will really enjoy flying your Strega.  It is basically a Patternmaster designed by the late, great, "Big" Jim Greenaway.  Windy used the basic of the PM for several of his models.

I got a Strega ARC through a deal with someone, I forget who, now.  Maybe Rich Peabody??  Anyway I have one of Big Jim's Hemi ST .60s for motivation as per the original and I have changed out the lead outs.  That's about all the mods I will do.  Since it came uncovered, the other mods will be much easier to construct.

Kent Tysor has flown Stregas exclusively for quite a while now.  He adds a turtle deck plus the underwing  radiator of the actual plane.  He won Advanced at the NATS and pulled off a NATS Top 20 the next year or so.  They can be real good fliers!  Good luck with yours!

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
I know that I will enjoy it immensely.....good to hear that your friends is a winner!
Thankee.
Whoooooo Buddy)))))))

Offline Shug Emery

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Re: The Strega is Huge.....
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2015, 06:05:44 PM »
     And you are going to take more off of all the mating surfaces before you are done to get everything to flat, clean, wood, But it looks like, in the picture, that the pan is too far towards the rear. Should scoot it forward a bit, that will close that gap up a bit and make it sit down in the front. Then check the rear, and check that it sits flush with the rest of the fuselage. You may have to trim the saddle a bit to get it to sit flush, but wait to do the finish fitting until the wing is glued to the fuselage. You will likely have to trim the saddle part of the main fuselage, too, to get the wing in line with no gaps.

     Brett


And so the work continues. Got the wing leading edge rounded and re-covered.
Thanks again.
Whoooooo Buddy)))))))

Offline Jared Hays

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Re: Strega ARF Overview ViDEO)))))
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2015, 10:36:19 PM »
I also used bigger throw control horns and longer which moved the arm of the control horn farther into the flap rather than just on the very end of the flap like the kit has it.  Also added a custom belly pan to make it look more scale and beef up the stock belly pan.  Made a custom rudder to look more scale.  I fly it on .018 63' 10" lines.  Power is from a ST 60.  Another big thing I noticed this plane liked was different props than what I normally use.  I ended up liking the APC 13 x 7 the best and then 13 x 8 when I flew in Denver.  Both Strega's I have/had needed a ton of tip weight though like 3 oz.  I did like the hard point handle over the cable type it made the plane snappier and pull outs where much smoother.  It flies great and is a peach to land with the thick airfoil.  Just round off the leading edge till you can start to see the edge of the balsa sheeting.  My first Strega I left the wing sharp and it flew terrible.  Wouldn't turn a corner at all.  So I peeled back the covering, rounded it off and bingo new airplane lol.  I have the video of that plane as well I post it up and you can see just how bad it was.

This is the bad flying Strega also with a cable style handle.  Huge difference in rounding that leading edge off...

Offline Steve Hines

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Re: Strega ARF Overview ViDEO)))))
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2015, 11:39:33 PM »
Shug the way I did this on a vector was to pin it with 1/8 inch dowel rod. Two in the back and two in front. Takes a little time to get the back pins holes in the right place. front can be put in with a long drill. use a little milled fiber glass with epoxy. Sam's vector went in at the nats, had to dig  the motor out of the dirt, but the joint did not brake. Just about everything else did.

Just did a Sv11, and the bottom comes off on this one. did the same thing but from the inside and made a fillet on the in side. glue on the bottom and was done.

you could cut off the bottom and glue it back on when you were done. Pins are a lot stronger than any kind of butt joint, no matter how good the fit is.

Steve

Offline Shug Emery

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Re: Strega ARF Overview ViDEO)))))
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2015, 07:19:44 PM »
I also used bigger throw control horns and longer which moved the arm of the control horn farther into the flap rather than just on the very end of the flap like the kit has it.  Also added a custom belly pan to make it look more scale and beef up the stock belly pan.  Made a custom rudder to look more scale.  I fly it on .018 63' 10" lines.  Power is from a ST 60.  Another big thing I noticed this plane liked was different props than what I normally use.  I ended up liking the APC 13 x 7 the best and then 13 x 8 when I flew in Denver.  Both Strega's I have/had needed a ton of tip weight though like 3 oz.  I did like the hard point handle over the cable type it made the plane snappier and pull outs where much smoother.  It flies great and is a peach to land with the thick airfoil.  Just round off the leading edge till you can start to see the edge of the balsa sheeting.  My first Strega I left the wing sharp and it flew terrible.  Wouldn't turn a corner at all.  So I peeled back the covering, rounded it off and bingo new airplane lol.  I have the video of that plane as well I post it up and you can see just how bad it was.

This is the bad flying Strega also with a cable style handle.  Huge difference in rounding that leading edge off...


I see the difference between the two Stregas in the two videos. I have a hardpoint handle ready to go and blunted my leading edge and recovered it already.
Thanks for the intel Jared. You and your Dad are terrific fliers and it is nice you can fly with your Dad. Great growing up with it I bet.
Shug

Shug the way I did this on a vector was to pin it with 1/8 inch dowel rod. Two in the back and two in front. Takes a little time to get the back pins holes in the right place. front can be put in with a long drill. use a little milled fiber glass with epoxy. Sam's vector went in at the nats, had to dig  the motor out of the dirt, but the joint did not brake. Just about everything else did.

Just did a Sv11, and the bottom comes off on this one. did the same thing but from the inside and made a fillet on the in side. glue on the bottom and was done.

you could cut off the bottom and glue it back on when you were done. Pins are a lot stronger than any kind of butt joint, no matter how good the fit is.

Steve

Another wonderful mod to consider. Taking the plane to Keith Sandberg and he will help me get this done and We will discuss all these remedies as well. Thank you. You must be having a ball having your daughter flying and doing so well. She seems to enjoy it and has that competitive spirit.
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Offline Shug Emery

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Re: Strega ARF Overview ViDEO)))))
« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2015, 07:50:10 PM »
Here is a wonderful article on the Strega and Saito 4cycle .61 written by Bob Zambelli. Easy to follow and well written and interesting.
Terrific engine intel and thoughts on building and flying.
I am excited and pumped after reading it....3 times.
Anyone interested in a mighty fine read should contact Bob Z.
Shug







 


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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Strega ARF Overview ViDEO)))))
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2015, 09:39:41 PM »
Here is a wonderful article on the Strega and Saito 4cycle .61 written by Bob Zambelli. Easy to follow and well written and interesting.
Terrific engine intel and thoughts on building and flying.
I am excited and pumped after reading it....3 times.
Anyone interested in a mighty fine read should contact Bob Z.
Shug


  Where?




 



Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Shug Emery

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Re: Strega ARF Overview ViDEO)))))
« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2015, 10:41:39 PM »

Reckon contact him on here through a PM would be best. Not sure I got permission to post it up.
Shug
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Offline Martin Quartim

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Re: Strega ARF Overview ViDEO)))))
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2015, 09:32:47 AM »
You got very good advices above and I hope I will add a few more that will help you built an even better Strega that will fly slower and smoother

You did the right thing buying the Enya 61CX! Is that the Rear or Side Exhaust?   I have quite a bit experience using this engine and I believe I can give you some good advice about it. I have used the Enya 61CX S Pro Side exhaust with muffler to power my Strega that I used during the 2010 season here in Brazil. The combo flew very competitively and it help me to advance against my competitors.

If you run the engine like I did it will develop tremendous amount of Torque to pull your Strega like it is made out of feathers!

First let me tell you about 2 new tricks that are very very important. The Strega airfoil ain't the best so you need to do 3 things to help the wing do its job:

The 1st one you have already done, rounding the L.E. as much as possible.

The 2nd most important thing is to change the flaps. The flaps that comes with the kit are too thin and weak, twists very easily and that is bad.  So If you want the Strega to fly well, discard these flaps and make new ones in the same size, but make them strong using the thickest sheet of balsa that will fit with the wing. Do not taper the flap and also do not round the T.E. Very very important not to round the Trailing edge, leave it square! The square T.E. has proven to me to work much better, if you want to know why and the Theory behind this I will be glad to explain it to you. Most of the Top Flyers in the World use square T.E. for good reasons.  When I built my Strega I did these things plus I reinforce the flap with fiber glass and epoxy. This is the easiest way to make a strong flap, but not the best. There are better ways to make flaps, like using a torque tube of aluminum or a specialized carbon fiber tube with the fibers rolled at 45o. The important thing is making the flaps very strong so they will not twist easily.

The 3rd thing is to use VGs (Vortex Generators) or a zig zag tape like Igor Burger uses on his wings.

If you do all these things your Strega will be much easier to fly. You will be able to fly slower and still be able to make beautiful corners.

The Strega is huge and heavy but you got the right engine for it! The Super Ultra Mega Power Mighty Enya 61CX  ;D ;D ;D

The Enya 61CX comes stock with a small venturi, so you may need to open it up a bit  to develop all the power it can. It will depend on the climate where you fly, the fuel, the prop and the run style you prefer, I mean 2-2-2, 4-2-4 or 4-4-4.

The Enya 61CX is a different beast from all other engines and I have seen people complaining about the engine performance because they did not run as it was design for.  The Enya 61CX with or without pipe will run very strong if you use low pitch prop and launch above 10000 rpms. If you try to use a high pitch prop like a 13x5 or 6 it will work but it will not run as strong and speed control will not be as good.

I will be glad to work with you in detail so you have a plane that will fly slow, with superb speed control and mighty in strong winds.

Here is my Strega ARC with the Enya 61CX S Pro with muffler and Bolly 13x4.5 3 Blade prop. This was early 2010 and did not have that many flights with it yet.  I started to fly the full pattern in 2008  and this was the year I left the bottom of the list and move to higher then the middle of the pack. I loved when it was very windy,  clearly I had the power advantage against the others.



Also check your horns for strength.  I broke one easily like it was a toothpick! Also check the Pushrod endings, if they bend easy DO NOT USE THEM! I crashed my Strega one year later because the pushrod ending failed.  Get Titanium ones from Tom Morris


Martin
Old Enya's never die, they just run stronger!

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Offline Martin Quartim

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Re: Strega ARF Overview ViDEO)))))
« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2015, 09:57:47 AM »
The Enya 61CX runs very smooth so I removed all the plywood from the nose. That is only needed for engines like the ST 60 that shakes a lot.

Martin
Old Enya's never die, they just run stronger!

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