Sterling Ringmaster S1 Weight

[Green River]

Quick question. How much should a Sterling Ringmaster S1 weight? I just finished one up that I built from plans, it has a silkspan and Brodak dope finish, Fox 35 stunt with metal tank. My scale shows 2 pounds on the button, does that sound about right?

[Brett Buck]

Quick question. How much should a Sterling Ringmaster S1 weight? I just finished one up that I built from plans, it has a silkspan and Brodak dope finish, Fox 35 stunt with metal tank. My scale shows 2 pounds on the button, does that sound about right?

     That's in the ballpark for kit models with full opaque finish. The combination will not be great, be sure to set the controls up so that you get maybe +-3/4" of elevator movement with full handle movement. If it starts to stall in corners, slow them down some more.

          Brett

[Dan McEntee]

   32 ounces isn't the end of the world. Make sure the controls are like Brett suggested, and that it is balanced properly and not nose heavy.. To get the controls slowed down and limit the deflection, you may have to extend the elevator horn. On some Ringmasters I have that were built by who know who and who knows when, I have had to make the horn about 1 1/4" long. And don't expect it to be a slow, lazy flyer. If on 60 footy lines it will need to do about 5 second laps, maybe a bit less if you can stand it.
   Type at you later and have fun,
  Dan McEntee

[Green River]

Thanks! I have it set up at 20* up and 20* down per plans. I’m a little nervous about flying it for the first time. My first go around with a Ringmaster 35 years ago didn’t go well, couldn’t keep the lines tight in a loop and would always nosedive, probably was stalling out, didn’t have the knowledge to know what was going on.

[Green River]

I already had to extend the horn a bit to keep the throws in check, thanks for the heads up!

[Dane Martin]

I already had to extend the horn a bit to keep the throws in check, thanks for the heads up!

This is the way. I think I use a 1 inch horn

[Brett Buck]

Thanks! I have it set up at 20* up and 20* down per plans. I’m a little nervous about flying it for the first time. My first go around with a Ringmaster 35 years ago didn’t go well, couldn’t keep the lines tight in a loop and would always nosedive, probably was stalling out, didn’t have the knowledge to know what was going on.

    I would bet +-20 degrees ends up being too much. The old +-60 degree "flippers" that were routinely used back in the "good old days" ensured that even the slightest sharp movement would instantly stall the wing, the natural reaction is to *move it even further" to try to compensate, making it even worse. It lasted until you backed off, or crashed.

     It is hard to believe how little control movement is necessary, so if you ever think you are stalling it, reduce the throw, and you will be surprised at how little it takes to fly normally.

     Brett

[Dan McEntee]

Thanks! I have it set up at 20* up and 20* down per plans. I’m a little nervous about flying it for the first time. My first go around with a Ringmaster 35 years ago didn’t go well, couldn’t keep the lines tight in a loop and would always nosedive, probably was stalling out, didn’t have the knowledge to know what was going on.

    Yeah, if you get beyond that 20 to 30 degrees of deflection and it's nose heavy, the elevator ceases to function becomes an air brake!! It's amazing how fast the airplane will slow down, stall and fall! Almost makes you want to find that mythical field of tall grass and pull a few tight loops just to focus on that stall and watch it closely!  I won the best Crash Trophy at VSC one year with a Ringmaster due to this exact cause!! Not exactly the trophy I wanted to win, but I have it displayed none the less!   Guys like to think that when you loop it needs to be nice and small like it's looping inside your hat! Use all the sky you have. Line spacing adjustment is a handy feature to have also. I have a Craig's List rescue Ringmaster that I'm quite sure has a two inch bell crank in it. They used to come with one that small and other kits suggested that size but didn't include it. That is the Ringmaster I have that has a control horn almost long enough to be the tail skid! But that along with some narrow line spacing, it does fly OK for a sport model.
     Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Gary Dowler]

Want an idea of really how little control movement it can take?  Our old buddy Shug strapped cameras to his Strega and gave us “the Vomit Cam”!!   Watch closely and you will see the controls. Hard to accurately judge on the flaps due to the airfoil, but the elevator looks to never go past I’d guess 15-18 deg.



Gary

[curtis williams]

Ringmaster should weigh enough that when you crash it on overhead 8, there is nothing left.
Then you can build something better and more modern.

[FLOYD CARTER]

Mr. Williams has the right idea.

If you build it like a tank, it will fly like a tank.

[Joe Gilbert]

22 oz ,good power plant and 20 deg up and down 57 to 60 foot lines  the Ringmaster can be a good flyer😊

Joe Gilbert

[FLOYD CARTER]

Joe.  Yes.  I enjoyed my Ringmaster, built from plans and my own construction (light).  Came in at 17 oz.  This proved too flimsy because the wing folded!!  Put back together at 22 oz and it was very nice.  It's still flying with another owner.

[Brett Buck]

Joe.  Yes.  I enjoyed my Ringmaster, built from plans and my own construction (light).  Came in at 17 oz.  This proved too flimsy because the wing folded!! 

   Lots of these "world's lightest Ringmaster" stories end up like that. David is notorious for flying various other people's Ringmasters and crashing them because they either goes where he insists it go, or it goes in the ground. It's fine as long as it's a Veco 19, OS 15 or 20FP. Unless it runs out of fuel while he is showing off at the end, at which point it turns back into a Ringmaster.

    But the only one he folded was his own, and the engine was running at the time. Being an degreed aeronautical engineer, he knows that lighter is better, so he lightened it up.  Going pretty good, he got to the outside round loops, and pop, the outboard wing comes off, and autorotates gently to the ground. He finishes the loop, flies it out, no problem. That was the day we discovered that a Ringmaster with a Veco 19bb and half the wing missing turns much better than a Ringmaster with an intact wing and a Fox 35.
   
    Brett

[Dennis Toth]

GR,
I think if you are going to fly in OTS with it you are OK but do limit the elevator throw also use a handle that you can adjust the line spacing on. One way you can save some weight is to put one of the smaller 15 to 20 size engine and a smaller tank, run the low pitch / high rpm (~11k rpm) with a 4 - 4.5 pitch. You could easy save 2oz. Unfortunately the Fox with the original steel piston/cylinder won't get there. Just a couple things to think about.

Bests,     DennisT

[Brett Buck]

GR,
I think if you are going to fly in OTS with it you are OK but do limit the elevator throw also use a handle that you can adjust the line spacing on.

   Just to be clear, you to not want to "block" the elevator to keep it from moving too far, make the rate of motion slow enough to get the necessary small movement with full movement of the handle. That can be any combination of larger bellcrank, narrower handle spacing, and a longer elevator horn. Longer elevator horn is preferred.

     Brett

[pat king]

Ringmasters have a HUGE elevator. They require very little throw. All a lot of throw does for you is to slow or stall the airplane.

Pat

[FLOYD CARTER]

So.  I'm not the only one trying to build "too light!"  This Ringmaster on the right shows 22.2 oz.  That was after the re-build and many more flights.

[Green River]

I built mine with a very light weight carbon arrow shaft for a spar other than that I have no idea what I could do to build it any lighter. Maybe the traditional dope finish has the weight up a little? Still have not flown my Ringmaster waiting on the correct conditions and when time will allow. I will decrease the throws to less that 20* I think that’s a good call!