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Author Topic: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro  (Read 1643 times)

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« on: May 17, 2020, 12:32:15 AM »
Are plans and possibly a laser cut rib set available for this version?  Thanks!


Dennis
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Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2020, 07:35:10 AM »
I believe the only difference between this and the S-1 is the sheeted wing. It is not OTS legal. If you are building from plans get a set of Ringmaster laser cut ribs from Brodak. The Brodak kit uses a built up leading edge that matches the S-1 and is OTS legal. Same airfoil just more open covered area.

Best,   DennisT

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2020, 11:11:37 AM »
Thanks Dennis, but OTS legal is not a consideration at all - I want to build the later Estes version.


Dennis
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2020, 11:28:33 AM »
I have the one I built from the kit and in my opinion does not fly any better than the rest. D>K
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Offline pat king

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2020, 09:07:34 PM »
Dennis,
There are better Ringmasters available. Since you don't care about being OTS legal, you do not need or want anything with the thin Ringmaster S1 OR the Ringmaster S1A wing. For $5.00 you can buy a set of full size .pdf files of the plans for the Ringmaster S1B. I can come up with a price for a wing kit. You would need the ribs, spar, leading edge, and the leading edge splice. You can supply the control system parts, the spar caps and the trailing edge strips. that wing is thicker, stiffer, and stronger than any of the wings of the Sterling/Estes airplanes. Sterling introduced the Ringmaster S1A that had a sheeted leading edge. After Estes bought the rights from Sterling they killed the Ringmasters with their "Stuntin' Ringmasters.

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Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2020, 09:37:58 PM »
Thanks guys, but I've probably had about as many Ringmasters since 1954 as some of you are years old.  I'm not looking to build something for OTS or to win the Nats, I simply want to build the ESTES STUNTIN' RINGMASTER .35 PRO, OK?

I won't second-guess you if you want to build XKYZ, please show the same consideration ...

 LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~

Dennis

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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2020, 09:43:44 AM »
Well that is one of the things I have learned in the last decade or so,  build for myself plus the fun of building and flying. D>K
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2020, 10:28:53 AM »
... I simply want to build the ESTES STUNTIN' RINGMASTER .35 PRO, OK? ...

No!  That's not OK!  I want you to build my favorite Ringmaster, not whatever may happen to be on your bucket list!  You should build this Ringmaster.  Jeesh!

(And I'm sorry that I can't help you -- I suspect you'll be building your own plane from scratch, unless you can find a kit on eBay)

((Is that the same as the S-1A?))
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Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2020, 10:41:05 AM »
The Estes Ringmaster and Ringmaster Jr. use about a 3/8"  and 1/4" square leading edge (respectively) - not the solid, shaped - and provide full size plans for the wing construction, plus plastic wing tips.  Actually quite nice.

I have most of the .35 size save the ribs, and a full kit of the Jr. size.  They're pretty quick and easy builds, just hoping to find rib patterns or the ribs themselves.


Dennis
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2020, 10:44:38 AM »
The Estes Ringmaster and Ringmaster Jr. use about a 3/8"  and 1/4" square leading edge (respectively) - not the solid, shaped - and provide full size plans for the wing construction, plus plastic wing tips.  Actually quite nice.

I have most of the .35 size save the ribs, and a full kit of the Jr. size.  They're pretty quick and easy builds, just hoping to find rib patterns or the ribs themselves.


Dennis

If the plans show the root and tip profiles -- even if it's just on the side views -- then you could stack-cut the ribs and come pretty darned close.  Or if just the root profile (the fuselage cutout should be close) you could just scale it down, and again, stack-cut the ribs.

Or you could ask someone with a laser cutter to cut a stack -- but really, drawing up a stack of ribs is almost as much work as just cutting them out; it's really only worthwhile if you're going into production.
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Offline Bill Jacklin

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2020, 11:05:47 AM »
Here's my Estes Ringy, kit built years ago. It was a candidate for the cover of the premier issue of Control Line World. John decided to go a different route; I have flown it many times and still have it. I suspect nearly all kit-built Ringys fly about the same.
=========================================
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A Ringmaster/Fox .35 kinda' guy

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2020, 11:30:37 AM »

((Is that the same as the S-1A?))


Negative sir. The S1A had a bit of a different airfoil and used one of those cute little pre molded clear canopies that turned yellow in the box.

Dennis, I'm also in the camp that wants to dissuade you from looking into this project any further. Perhaps we can find you a nice 1/2a size?

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2020, 11:51:22 AM »
Negative sir. The S1A had a bit of a different airfoil and used one of those cute little pre molded clear canopies that turned yellow in the box.

Dennis, I'm also in the camp that wants to dissuade you from looking into this project any further. Perhaps we can find you a nice 1/2a size?

 LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~

1/2a size!?!


Dane, what have you been drinking!?!

Not to worry, I found rib patterns.  Nats winner coming up!


Dennis
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2020, 11:57:15 AM »
LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~

1/2a size!?!


Dane, what have you been drinking!?!

Not to worry, I found rib patterns.  Nats winner coming up!


Dennis

Had y'all looked at the plans I so generously shared you'd have seen that it's a perfectly normal -- perhaps boring, even -- 1/2A sized Ringmaster, that's only been modernized a little bit.
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2020, 12:06:57 PM »
Here's my Estes Ringy, kit built years ago. It was a candidate for the cover of the premier issue of Control Line World. John decided to go a different route; I have flown it many times and still have it. I suspect nearly all kit-built Ringys fly about the same.

   While none of them will ever be world-beaters, there are only two things wrong with it, stock, that make it fly poorly - the controls are *way too fast* and feeble 4-2 break engines.

      The single most important thing, by far, is to *get the controls slowed down*, drastically, compared to  the stock arrangement with the tiny elevator horn. With traditional engines, this might need to be as like as +- 3/8" total travel with full wrist movement.  Leave it with the +-60 degree "flipper" and nothing else you do matters.

    The other thing is to get a small, high-rev engine spinning a 4" pitch prop, instead of a Fox/McCoy 35 with a 10-6. Even a 15FP is plenty, and flies it drastically better than any vintage engine. The higher performance, particularly, holding the speed better in the corners allows you to improve the turns and make it much safer to fly, and lets you use a little bit more elevator travel without stalling.

     The thing that doesn't matter nearly as much as everyone assumes, the *weight* doesn't make that much difference, and if you get the above two things right, it flies pretty OK at kit weights. I have flown flights that would probably get a 500 or higher with a bone-stock kit, full opaque dope finish, as low-mid 30 ounce range - with a 15FP and the controls slowed down. The "world's lightest Ringmaster" - which might be Larry's, which has the 15FP and slow controls - doesn't seem to fly nearly as well as the one David and I at 33ish ounces. The one David used to win at VSC is no featherweight, maybe 26-27 ounces (with a *completely worn out* Veco 19). You can build it to 16 ounces if you are so inclined. Get it to corner and I can almost guarantee it's going to come apart in flight, however.

    None of this addresses the egregious structural design, of course, with kit parts and Ambroid, its not even safe to fly, because the bellcrank almost always fails the pull test at some point, and the nose will break off pretty easily, and will start stress-cracking while you are just choking the engine, unless you do something.

    I have flown many, many Ringmasters stock and otherwise and they are all over the place depending on the state of the two things above.

      Brett

   

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2020, 12:21:50 PM »
Tim, you're a very kind and generous man.

Brett, I'd be offended by the lackluster review you've given the ringmaster, but to quote my mother "Dane isn't smart enough to be offended by words"....

Ken, if you need any more sound advice, just let me know!

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2020, 01:53:29 PM »

… I have flown many, many Ringmasters stock and otherwise and they are all over the place depending on the state of the two things above.

      Brett


Yeah, but I'll bet you've never won a combat match flying a Fox .35 powered Ringmaster with only the inboard wing attached in gale-force winds {Fort Dodge, Iowa, 1957].  Of course I got cuts!

Brett, you're just a kid - you haven't learned to appreciate the Ring!


 H^^ H^^ H^^
Dennis

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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2020, 02:43:57 PM »
>>While none of them will ever be world-beaters, ...<<

Well, unless you're Joe Gilbert
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2020, 03:06:41 PM »
And, this Ringmaster flew pretty well.
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Offline Phil Spillman

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2020, 03:55:48 PM »
Well, Well! And a fine Hello to All, In 1976 I built an S-1 Sterling Ringmaster complete with log LE and tapered LOG TE and put the entire rig together with Ambroid! I built this for my late son to enable him to enjoy Control Line! It didn't work partly because I didn't use mufflers on my stuff! (Gun HO Combat type at the Time Don't you know!) Now here we are 46 years later and that very same Ambroid glued specimen is still flying! I have shimmed down the motor mounts to allow an OS .20 or .25SF engine to be accommodated! I have added a long elevator horn and 9 X 4 or 5 props for power! That sucker won't give meany 500 patterns but it does fly the entire AMA /PA routine! OH but I did use leather  fillets to help stiffen the wing fuselage joint!

In 1952 at age 14 I had a beautiful orange and green S 1 with only one major wrinkle in the silk span! BUT that thing was gorgeous to me! In my mind it still is as it was my first me built big plane! I have gone on to build many other Ringmasters since 1952 but all of them still take me back to long ago in a place far away! And yes with the current Brodak Kit Ringmaster I have bettered a 500 score at the FlyIn! Amazing fun which never ceases to amaze me!

Phil Spillman
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Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2020, 06:03:56 PM »
For us Old School guys, Ringmasters and McCoy Red Heads or Fox stunt 35's go together like ham and cheese. Sure there are  better engines for it, but they do not make the same noise. Getting that perfect 4-2 break on old iron is very satisfying.  Not for everybody.

My personal favorites are ignition engines on BIG planes with BIG props. They have not won the Nats since about 48. But they are fun fun fun. I use to go to the flying field and fly all day by myself and go home with a big smile on my face.

I am not opposed to winning, but the winning is not the only reason I fly toy air planes. I have won my share of trophies in both R/C pattern and control line. Three time ignition winner at VSC.

As they say. If you do not understand why I love old ignition powered planes I can not explain it to you.

I think it is why many still love Ringmasters with old iron. Just because its fun. This picture was taken at a Sams Champs where I won first in old time with a McCoy Red Head on this old Ringmaster.
Jim Kraft

Offline BillP

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2020, 07:02:50 PM »
be
Thanks Dennis, but OTS legal is not a consideration at all - I want to build the later Estes version.


Dennis

Hey Dennis, being a guy who likes Ringmasters...did you know Estes had a Ringmaster version before the Ring Pro came out? It was in a plain white box without markings and original right down to the formed leading and trailing edges. They did 300 white box kits (Ring Jr too) and then changed to the Pro versions. 
Bill P.

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2020, 07:37:54 PM »
be
Hey Dennis, being a guy who likes Ringmasters...did you know Estes had a Ringmaster version before the Ring Pro came out? It was in a plain white box without markings and original right down to the formed leading and trailing edges. They did 300 white box kits (Ring Jr too) and then changed to the Pro versions. 


No, I didn't know that.

To be honest, I'm not so much a Ringmaster fan as a couple of them basically "fell" into my hands.  And we just can't waste ...

LOVE reading stories like those above ... whatever turns your crank - enjoy it!  Who cares what anyone else thinks?


Dennis
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Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2020, 07:45:04 PM »

      The single most important thing, by far, is to *get the controls slowed down*, drastically, compared to  the stock arrangement with the tiny elevator horn. With traditional engines, this might need to be as like as +- 3/8" total travel with full wrist movement.  Leave it with the +-60 degree "flipper" and nothing else you do matters.

      Brett


In all the years I've built and flown Ringmasters, I've never, ever used those plywood horns.  The "flipper" effect seemed pretty obvious even to a kid.  For that matter, my preference over the years - especially for combat - has been for limited movement on airplanes many considered "nose heavy".  If it works for you ...

Dennis
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2020, 08:36:14 PM »
I really won my first trophies flying a stock Sterling Ringmaster with a McCoy .35 Redhead.  Even today I think the Ringmaster was and still is one pretty profile.  Guess that is why I keep building them.  Even make my own leading and trailing edges.  The other plane I always thought was a beautiful bird was the original Veco Thunderbird with up right engine.  Tried to restore mine but age and storage was too much for it.  The balsa would just crumble in my hands plus the silk was just shreds.  May have to build another Veco Thunderbird one of these days. D>K
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Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2020, 09:25:40 PM »
I agree John, but I'd chose the Thunderbird II with inverted engine.  Many of the I-Beam designs come close, but there's little possibility anything will surpass the Thunderbird for aesthetic beauty in my eyes.  It's a winner!

Dennis
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Offline mike londke

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2020, 10:26:58 AM »
I believe the only difference between this and the S-1 is the sheeted wing. It is not OTS legal. If you are building from plans get a set of Ringmaster laser cut ribs from Brodak. The Brodak kit uses a built up leading edge that matches the S-1 and is OTS legal. Same airfoil just more open covered area.

Best,   DennisT
This version is does NOT have a sheeted wing.  Someone brought it to my attention a few weeks ago and I opened my kit to see for myself. No sheeting.
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Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2020, 10:50:17 AM »
NOT sheeted.  Silkspan covered Jr. version below.


Dennis
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Online Dan McEntee

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2020, 10:54:49 AM »
  I wouldn't mind having one of these kits for my Sterling kit collection, just because of what it is. Even when I worked at the hobby h\shop, I don't recall ever seeing one in person, and that makes me wonder how long they were actually in production before it was stopped. I have several Ringmasters hanging in the garage, including a couple of Craig's List rescues that were kit built airplanes from a long time ago. During there production, they came either with or without bell crank and wheels. The bell crank when supplied and referred to in the instructions was a 2" unit. That and the small plywood horn make some some quick controls. I remember think during my early experiences that I wanted a lot of control and fast "in case I needed it!" One I have that I got off Craig's List has the 2" bell crank in it, and it took a really tall control horn to slow them down, like almost long enough to almost be the tail skid! That plus some narrow line spacing made it acceptable to fly and I have a fox.35 on it just because. I agree with Brett on the weight issue in that anything in the 25 to 35 ounce range should fly well if balanced properly and the controls set up correctly. The model needs to fly fast and that means some longer lines also to keep lap times in check. I always keep my eye peeled for this kind of stuff and maybe I'll find an example one of these days.
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Offline proparc

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Re: Estes (Sterling) Stuntin' Ringmaster .35 Pro
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2020, 07:47:28 PM »
No!  That's not OK!  I want you to build my favorite Ringmaster, not whatever may happen to be on your bucket list!  You should build this Ringmaster.  Jeesh!


 LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
Milton "Proparc" Graham


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