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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Brian Gardner on May 14, 2014, 02:33:45 AM
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Guys, a few people have asked if I could do a batch of ST51 ABC sets.
No problem, I'd be happy to do it, but not sure what configuration I'd do it in.
Personally I found they ran best if I hemi'd out the chamber a bit and blocked the boost port.
I know I'm opening a can of worms here but what are eyerybodies thoughts?
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Hi Brian,
Count me in for the quantity we talked about in our earlier discussions for this engine. A round, chambered head, and blocked boost port would be fine, as we also talked about. Hope others will sign up too.
Thanks;
Larry
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Brian,
This is something that I may have an interest in if it comes about.
Mike
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Well, the porting is certainly open for modification, but I'd prefer a stock CL replacement sleeve and stock head. If we want to block the boost port, that's easy enough. I've always thought it might be good to partially block the boost port, but most go all or nothing. Anyway, I'd be in for one set for sure, maybe two, depending on the price. H^^ Steve
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I wouldn't mind one or 2 sets.
dennis
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Brian, you can count me in for at least one set. Everything so far has been golden!
I have not run a "stock" ST G. 51 but I have run Randy Smith and Tom Lay ones and been VERY happy with them.
Thanks!
Bill
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I would be down for a set if they were set-up w/modified timing. Never have gotten the stock ones to work the way I like 'em to. If possible, use Randy Smith's numbers. His run great! 8)
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I haven't had very much luck with the stock engine either. I did manage to get one running (more or less) with a hogged out head but it still isn't the best. I would be interested for sure and second the notion to maybe use Randy's numbers, should he be willing to share.
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I would be interested.
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I would be interested with a set of Randy Smith's numbers. My st51 never ran good for me stock.
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Well solve the problem by buying one from him and compare engines. A gentleman many years ago bought a Tiger .46 reworked off another gentleman. He had one brand new never touched and we as a group started comparing the two engines. Only thing we found even after measuring and remeasuring was the engine had been deburred. The stock engine did take longer to break in.
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Well there seems to be renewed interest in these. I've contacted Randy to ask his input as suggested above. We need to come up with something that everyone will be confident to buy, and we need more numbers to justify a batch. Given the ST51 isn't as "old" as the 46 & 60 perhaps we can skip rods out of the kit to keep the price down too?
On a side note the ST46 batch is nearing completion, but all are spoken for. So those that have had their name on the waiting list should get satisfaction in January I expect.
Brian
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Tom Lay claimed to not change the timing on the ST G.51 (CL version). I don't know if he changed the head, but could check both, now that I think of it. He said he hardened and honed the liner and changed to a Bowman ring (as did Big Jim and probably everybody else), changed bearings if needed, and did the spraybar through the case revision. He also said the Chinese engines were just as good as Italian ones. I took that to mean the Chinese ones were ok....but maybe he meant that the Italian ones were also crappy?
The ex-Dirt G.51 (reworked R/C cylinder and stock head) I sent to Tom to get a CL cylinder and the full T&L rework didn't work out too well for me. Never had any sort of ring seal and still doesn't. Interestingly, and as expected, lowering the spraybar had no effect on tank height. Last I flew it was in Edmonton in 2010. I flew my officials with a 12.25 x 3.75 APC, and it sucked in the wind, later in the day. I decided right there, that a piped engine would be a good way to go.
Dirt said he (Dan) was changing over to a CL cylinder from the reworked R/C cylinder, because he thought he could get more "power" (torque) out of it. Logical, due to lower timing numbers. Bigger prop at lower revs. He also said that he'd previously used a lower compression head, but had changed back to stock. Later, Dan flew an Impact with his CL version G.51, and it seemed to work quite well. Tho, I can't speak to how stock the cylinder was, either. ??? Steve
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OK, if everyone that has shown interest so far is genuinely interested we now have numbers for a small batch run.
Just have to sort out details. Remember also things move slow in my world unfortunately.
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Late for the show, as usual, but sign me up for one.
Thanks
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Well there seems to be renewed interest in these. I've contacted Randy to ask his input as suggested above. We need to come up with something that everyone will be confident to buy, and we need more numbers to justify a batch. Given the ST51 isn't as "old" as the 46 & 60 perhaps we can skip rods out of the kit to keep the price down too?
On a side note the ST46 batch is nearing completion, but all are spoken for. So those that have had their name on the waiting list should get satisfaction in January I expect.
Brian
Hi Brian Yes I can help with the numbers and sleeve design, the ST head is just fine and really needs nothing, except I modify it by cutting a heat dam in it. The ST rod should also be sufficient
How many are you thinking about making?
Randy
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Hi Brian I will take one also. The very first ST/46 we did is still running strong with well over 1000 runs on it.
Ed
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Brian:
What's the approximate cost? I've got one NIB, but I'm already happy with a bunch of my other engines and am trying to cull down on my variety. So, I got a decision to make of whether to keep it or sell it and need a little more input.
Thanks,
Scott
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Thanks for the added interest guys and I've added you to the "list". We now have enough numbers to proceed.
Randy has agreed to help out with some of his experience, so with his help I'm sure we can come up with something great for the stunt community.
If we only do pistons & liners (possibly pins too) the cost should at an approximation come in at about $95-$100 Australian (approx. $80-$85US).
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Thanks for the added interest guys and I've added you to the "list". We now have enough numbers to proceed.
Randy has agreed to help out with some of his experience, so with his help I'm sure we can come up with something great for the stunt community.
If we only do pistons & liners (possibly pins too) the cost should at an approximation come in at about $95-$100 Australian (approx. $80-$85US).
Sign me up for two..
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If we only do pistons & liners (possibly pins too) the cost should at an approximation come in at about $95-$100 Australian (approx. $80-$85US).
Hi Brian;
Do you plan to offer a hemi head as an option also?
Thanks;
Larry
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I might. I'll have to track down one of the engines I did to get the volume/shape. If we do it will possibly be more like the ST46 & 60 in external shape for ease of machining.
Hi Brian;
Do you plan to offer a hemi head as an option also?
Thanks;
Larry
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I might. I'll have to track down one of the engines I did to get the volume/shape. If we do it will possibly be more like the ST46 & 60 in external shape for ease of machining.
Thanks Brian.
Either way is fine with me. I was just curious. Understand about external shape.
Thanks again.
Larry
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Hi Brian,
I would like one set, stock ST timing. I am very happy with the Italian G51s I have, my only mods are to decompress the motor with a ST60 head shim, and to use a custom, straight through venturi. So no blocked ports or other mods please!
Kind regards,
Henk
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Hello Brian,
I was going to send you an email to see how you were going, but things cant be too bad if you are doing a run of ST 51s. I would like a set, because my late Italian 51 is the biggest load of trouble I have ever had with a stunt engine! None of the cures have worked for this recalcitrant swine and I have tried everything! The one good thing is I have a decent ring seal!
One of your ABC sets is my last chance with this damn engine!
Best Wishes,
Andrew.
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I would like 2 sets-if they will fit. Not sure what late model means? How does one tell if you have a late model version or not?
Gary Frost
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The early ones are pretty rare and look like a cross between the G21-46 and V60 with round heads, whereas the "late" model has the big square looking head.
I would like 2 sets-if they will fit. Not sure what late model means? How does one tell if you have a late model version or not?
Gary Frost
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Brian,
I don’t know if it is too late to reserve, but I’d like to stay with two sets. Please advise me by e-mail when you have them, or before if necessary.
Thanks. Luiz
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No problem Luiz. You are on the list. Do you want an optional hemi head?
Brian,
I don’t know if it is too late to reserve, but I’d like to stay with two sets. Please advise me by e-mail when you have them, or before if necessary.
Thanks. Luiz
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Brian,
I'd like one also. The ring just finally gave up in one of mine.
John Leidle
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Hi Randy, can you tell me what a " Heat Dam " is?
John
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On the list John. That takes us past 30. Now just awaiting the sample engine (one I did last....10 years back) to measure up etc.
Brian,
I'd like one also. The ring just finally gave up in one of mine.
John Leidle
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No problem Luiz. You are on the list. Do you want an optional hemi head?
No, thanks Brian, just the two piston and sleeve sets.
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I'll take one set for my NIB late model ST51.
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Hi Randy, can you tell me what a " Heat Dam " is?
John
Hi John
I think you may have one or so of my engines, Look at the glowplug, and look at the area around the plug, it will have a ditch. or dam cut out around the plug, the aluminum removed , stops the head from dispersing some of the heat from the Glow Plug, this makes the glow plug run slightly hotter, keeping it running cleaner in maneuvers.
Randy
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Brian, I wont need the head just the piston & liner.
john
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Randy, thanks for telling e this about the heat dam, I'll look into the head .. would this be a small slot cut to expose some of the plug threads?
John
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John:
Looking straight down at the top of the head, you'll see a grooved channel (a little larger in diameter than a Cheerio) around the glow plug just about a cm deep.
Scott
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Thank you Scott, that clears things up for me.
John
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Hi Brian,
I would like 2 sets....thanks, Greg Bahrman
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Add a head to my previously requested one set. Thanks! Pete 8)
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Greg, do you want a head too mate?
Hi Brian,
I would like 2 sets....thanks, Greg Bahrman
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How do I add myself to the list?
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Brian seems to be on the forum fairly regularly lately, but I usually just email him directly. If you click his name next to his last post, his email address is under his profile.
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Brian,
Add a head to my one ABC set
Thanks
Mike
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If not too late, add me to the list for one p&l set with hemi head.
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Please add me to the list for one p&l set with hemi head.
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Well, I'm late to the show as usual but I definitely would like a set with Randy Smith's numbers including the head.
Thanks,
Randy Cuberly
Tucson, AZ
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Add one head to the two P&Ls I already committed to.
Bob
Edit, just read what Randy posted in the other thread and decided to stay with the stock heads.
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Mike & Milton, you have both been added to the list per your emails & messages.
Brian
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With heads....Thx. bahrman at sbcglobal dot net
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I'm taking sample engines & drawings to the machinist today. So numbers will be set in the next week for the production batch. Last chance to get your name on the list guys.
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Brian,
Make my one ABC set with head, 2 sets with heads please.
Thanks
Mike
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I will be interested in two (2) sets. Have you determined if it will just be piston and liners, or P&Ls with rod?
Thanks a lot,
Dan McEntee
Florissant, MO
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List updated Mike & Dan.
Brian
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OK Guys, machining will begin shortly on the ST51 sets. I set final numbers at 70 sets & 40 heads. This will cover everyone that asked to added to the waiting list plus a few extras.
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Do you have prices yet?
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Not yet mate, but it will be similar to the ST46 & 60 sets, possibly a tad extra due to the extra work for the different porting.
Do you have prices yet?
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Does anybody know what the status of these are? I requested to be put on the list and got confirmation, but haven't heard anything since.
Chris
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Yes, Brian sent me an update and said that there were some delays and that the run was large. He is waiting on piston material so everyone will have same/consistent parts. It will be worth the wait.
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Russ is correct. There was some delay on piston material but they are in production. It's the biggest batch we've made so it's taking a while.
Don't worry, they are in progress and I still have everybody on the waiting list.
At the time of starting the batch I had orders for 60 sets so I set the batch size at 70. I now have 72 orders on the list, but I always find some people don't come good with the cash when delivery time comes. If anyone else wants them I can add to the list. Worst case we do an additional run when these are finished & paid for etc.
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I'm too curious...are the liners going to be a heat-shrink fit into the case like the stock, or looser? ???
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I'm too curious...are the liners going to be a heat-shrink fit into the case like the stock, or looser? ???
The intent is for a neat slide in fit. The trouble is we can only measure a bunch of motors and take an average for the OD of the liner. The result (as with the ST46 & ST60) some are a bit tight. So sometimes a bit of lapping into the case is required. It's the best we can do.
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A few guys have been asking for updates.
We were a bit slow getting started on these. The liners are chromed. So there is progress. Apologies for the delay fellas.
Brian
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The intent is for a neat slide in fit. The trouble is we can only measure a bunch of motors and take an average for the OD of the liner. The result (as with the ST46 & ST60) some are a bit tight. So sometimes a bit of lapping into the case is required. It's the best we can do.
I probably should have mentioned that I've only had one (of three) apart, but with two different cylinders in that one engine. Both cylinders needed heat to get them both in and out. I thought that was pretty silly fits, but didn't realize it wasn't "normal" for these. I wonder how big a hammer they used to assemble them at the factory!
Good to hear the liners are done. That is, assuming that "chromed" includes "honed". The pistons should go pretty quickly, I'd think? I best start some "set-asides" to pay the bill then! :-[ Steve
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Ive put thias here as theres a chance a few of you have G-51s . :o
Mumifying with masking tape gets it sealed up , CRC / WD 40 after loosens the filings and the garden hose dispells them . :o
Cover the LUUG and The lower cooling fin , remask if nicked . Might pay to tape wet & dry sandpaper there as its more durable while whittling.
I used a rasp , File , needle file & polish with 220 wqet & dry .Needs patiance & persistance & a steady hand , so if youre not FILE familiar
practise elsewhere .
the stupid lump is from its origins as the ' 49 SPORT ' , so they hogged out the mould there .
Marking a mm up and just shaving gets a better screwdriver access , or If your tightly cowled .
(http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mT4HuK7mdo9tiQSLPBnS2BA.jpg)
theres a curve fore & aft , so the rear requires more care not to scrape up the finish , if your taking it in flush or even to the curve .
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OK Guys,
Again my apologies for these taking so long. They are done and in final quality check stage.
I'll be contacting people on the waiting list in the next week.
At this point all 70 sets are spoken for.
Brian
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Hi Brian,
This is good to hear. Looking forward to receiving them.
Thanks for taking on this project. Should make for some really great and long lasting engines.
Larry
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OK Guys,
Again my apologies for these taking so long. They are done and in final quality check stage.
I'll be contacting people on the waiting list in the next week.
At this point all 70 sets are spoken for.
Brian
Hi Brian
They look like they came out great, can;t wait to get a couple of them
Randy
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Awesome !!
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Sounds great.
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OK Guys,
Again my apologies for these taking so long. They are done and in final quality check stage.
I'll be contacting people on the waiting list in the next week.
At this point all 70 sets are spoken for.
Brian
The quality looks phenomenal. :o
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From all the other threads where Brian did this or that ABC set, my informal reading suggests that all folks who ordered were very happy
I am looking forward to Brain finishing up the Fox 36X sets
I would hope some of you add your names to desiring Brian's good work for the Fox MK IV /MK VI combat engines
http://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/brian-gardner-abc-pistonlinerrodpin-sets-for-fox-mk-iv-and-vi/?action=post;num_replies=28
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Any updates on these?
Chris
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Brain if it is not to late i would like p&l for st51. thanks Brent
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Brian contacted me last week but I no longer have my ST/51 motors. You can ask him for mine. I sold off most of my motors last fall.
Ed
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Put me down for a set also, without the head. I have a T&L ST .51 R/c version. It runs very well, it was first owned by Alice Cotton Royer who ran it in a modified SV-11 and a second SV-11 that flew at the Nats when they were in the Tri Cities Washington State. It has been crashed, rebuilt by Scott Riese and has a new Bowman ring in it. Still runs very well. Two things that were worked out on this engine: #1 Muffler, Big Art Tube muffler, #2 Prop, Rev-Up 11 or 12 x 6 EW blade. I flew Alice's plane and it flew very well, and she flew it very well also. She flew it enough to wear out the bushings in the leadout slider. It has always been a one or two starting engine. Anyhow, just thought I'd throw this out there, because the R/c version can be made to work. SIG Champion fuel, 10/10/10.
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Now that this project is concluding the Fox 36X second run of ABC sets are next
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Brent & Gerald, I can add you to the waiting list if you like.
There are more people on the waiting list than the initial production run (added to list after we started). So as people pull out those sets go to the next person on the waiting list. I work my way down the list to be fair. The second production run would have covered the list but it has grown further.
Due to my disabilities I don't work, and borrow money to fund these projects. As such the run of ST51 sets had to be split into 2 batches as I couldn't afford to comision 70 sets in one go. The second run is already started and it looks like I'll have numbers to do a third run. So people below half way on the list have a bit more of a wait yet sorry. I have increased the numbers in the second run to try to keep up with demand. It's a juggling act.
We've also started on a run of Fox36X, OS Max-S 35 and ST46. It's busy times.
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Brian,
Just a suggestion, why not get a deposit with order instead of using borrowed money. I wouldn't have had a problem sending you a non refundable deposit with my order and the balance when shipped. The deposit amount should at least cover your cost for material.
Bob
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Brian,
Just a suggestion, why not get a deposit with order instead of using borrowed money. I wouldn't have had a problem sending you a non refundable deposit with my order and the balance when shipped. The deposit amount should at least cover your cost for material.
Bob
I strongly agree. As a fellow stunt stunt flyer, we trust you. Plus, since you are on disability, if you try to pull a fast one, we can fly down to Australia and get you!!!
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I also do not have any problem with a modest up front "deposit" to be used as seed $$$ ....I think it unreasonable for Brian to assume all the risk and would certainly save us the additional delays for the project(s)
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I received my ST 51 ABC set in the mail yesterday,top notch product.
Have been dealing with Brian over a number of years,never an issue.
Thanks Brian.
Paul Allen
In OZ
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Well I hope I am on the list for the second batch! I was waiting for Brian to call in my cash, but no such luck yet! I too would be more than happy to pay a substantial amount upfront. I too am disabled and it was difficult getting by when I was of working age. How about it for the next project, Brian?
Regards,
Andrew.
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Hi Brian, I thought I had signed up for a set, S &P, but in reviewing this list I failed to see my name! Perhaps I sent you a PM to reserve a set. If so fine if not please add me to your list with many thanks!
Phil Spillman
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I know I sent a PM for two sets and one head...can probably prove it, too. I had hopes of getting a request for funds awhile ago, but I hope I'm on for the second batch ok. Anyway, I'd also be very willing to pay a deposit up front, except that it's sort of a hassle to deal with two International Banking Transfers...may as well do just one, meaning paying in advance. I guess it would be simpler for those willing to use PayPal (not me), but I think you'd get screwed for PP fees twice vs. once. H^^ Steve
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Brian,
I too would be willing to pay a deposit to help with the funding. You really shouldn't have to bear the up front costs for a project that supports the CL community.
Gary
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Phil Spillman, apologies you weren't on the list for ST51, but you are now. I do have you on the list for an ST46 set though.
Steve Helmick, yes you are on the ST51 list for 2 sets and one head.
Apologies for the ongiong delays for those on the second half of the list.
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OK guys, batch No2 is just about ready. I expect I'll be ready to send out in 2 weeks. I'll be emailing everyone on the second half of the list to start sending me their money.
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Hi Brian,
What am I on the list for? A set and head or just the set??
Thanks for what you are doing us!!
Bill
P.S. I also sending you a PM soon with some information
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1 set with head Bill. I sent you a pm a couple of weeks back mate.
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1 set with head Bill. I sent you a pm a couple of weeks back mate.
Thanks, Brian, that is about the time I got very sick......
Bill
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Got my sets yesterday, Thanks Brian!