NATs appearance judging

[Dennis Toth]

Guys,
First congrats to Derek on winning the concours award. With all the discussion on BOM and appearance points how about a listing of the appearance points for all the contestants that built and finished there own models. It seems we never get to see the final results. Can someone that was there post a list of appearance points awarded or a link to were they are posted.

Best,       DennisT

[Brian Massey]

I would love to see that too.

Brian

[decamara]

Can someone that was there post a list of appearance points awarded or a link to were they are posted.



This is a great way to admire all the hard work these guys have bled into their craft.

I'd like to see what the latest "bar" is to even attempt to aspire/dream towards.

Thanks

[peabody]

By definition, any model that was presented for appearance judging was built and finished by the flier.....just as it has always been.

[Dennis Toth]

Why are the results of this part of the competition so secret? We know the front row (19 points) results, but what about the rest?

Best,    DennisT

[James Mills]

Why are the results of this part of the competition so secret? We know the front row (19 points) results, but what about the rest?

Best,    DennisT

I don't think it's kept secret.  When you see pictures from Appearance Judging just count backwards from 19 from the front row (we didn't have a 20 pointer this year).  I'll be up front here and say my 10 year old Shark got 14, which I was pleased with. 

James

[Doug Moon]

It’s not a kept secret. The planes are laid out in order of points awarded in rows.  The judges/workers then record the scores for each of the pilots.  Then the pilots come in and pick them up.  Once they are picked up there is no way to really know how it worked out for everyone individually.

The recorded score is entered onto the score sheet just like each of the other maneuvers in the pattern. 

[john e. holliday]

If you get a photo of the appearance judging after it is done.  Start with row one, 19 points.  Each row back should be one less point.  If there are 20 rows the last row may or may not be 1 point.  Would be nice to see what the lowest point for appearance was.  At local meets I have received 8 points for what I would have given myself maybe a 3.   But, looking at the scores that possible 12-15 point difference would make a difference in placings.   I can even remember the year Todd Lee wound up second because of appearance points.  His was because his number one plane ws trashed just before the NATS and he had to go to a plane that had some time on it.  But, Jr, Sr and Op means you have to have the whole pckage together to win that great big Walker Cup.  Congrats to all that participated.

[Dennis Toth]

I realize it is not a "secret" if you were there, I just like to see the impact of the appearance points and what different contestants were able to fly around or not. If the appearance score was recorded to be added to the score sheets shouldn't PAMPA have a list of the scores by contestant and event that was used? Could that list be posted either here or on the PAMPA web site?

Best,     DennisT

[proparc]

This "row" method is a good way to do it. It "shames you" into having to build better. If I end up on the last row, I will never hear the end of it from Jose Modesto.

[Trostle]

Like has been said, the appearance points awarded is no dark secret.  It is just that nobody has ever bothered to take the scores that have been compiled for tabulation and post them somewhere.  For posting, that becomes no small task because we are talking about 60 to 80 airplanes (has been more in the past), getting the score associated with the airplane and putting a name to that airplane.  (For the tabulators, it is a bit easier because they are given a list with the appearance points by AMA number which translates easily to the score sheets.)  Also, if you are looking at the pictures of the final placing of the models in various rows, just be aware that there might be more than one row of 17 point airplanes, and 16 point airplanes and so forth.  Normally, the appearance judges will place placards at the end of each row with the appropriate numbers on them.

Keith

[Bill Little]

My experiences at the NATS have been that the Appearance Points judging was very good and fair.   Usually there is a breakdown (at least sometimes) that will show up in one form or another in Stunt News.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

[Eric Viglione]

It just occurred to me that Noel Drindak wasn't present, and I was not handed a technology survey form to fill out this year while in line for appearance judging. 

I can only conclude that this means one of my favorite post-Nats feature articles will be missing from Stunt News.

Bummer. 

EricV

[Bill Little]

It just occurred to me that Noel Drindak wasn't present, and I was not handed a technology survey form to fill out this year while in line for appearance judging. 

I can only conclude that this means one of my favorite post-Nats feature articles will be missing from Stunt News.

Bummer. 

EricV

Hi Eric,

That WILL be a bummer!

Bill

[Paul Smith]

Nats or local, I understand the practice to be awarding points from 11 to 20, thereby giving the builder "something for the effort" vs an ARFer.   As well it should be.

[Trostle]

Nats or local, I understand the practice to be awarding points from 11 to 20, thereby giving the builder "something for the effort" vs an ARFer.   As well it should be.

Actually, the range for appearance points is 0 to 20, according to the rulebook.

Keith

[Howard Rush]

Like has been said, the appearance points awarded is no dark secret.  It is just that nobody has ever bothered to take the scores that have been compiled for tabulation and post them somewhere.  For posting, that becomes no small task because we are talking about 60 to 80 airplanes (has been more in the past), getting the score associated with the airplane and putting a name to that airplane.

It's trivial.  The tabulation program prints a list sorted by contestant name.  I think it's OK that nobody publishes it.  Appearance is only half as important as the score for takeoff and level flight, and nobody cares about a compilation of takeoff scores.