Spinners

[john e. holliday]

I see Brad is catching flak for not putting a spinner on a plane design that doesn't need it.  Like when Sparky left out the pilot on one of his planes.  Dave Hemstraught's PT-19 did not have a spinner either.  An old timer in the early days stated,  "A spinner is only good for standing the plane on its nose so you can clean it".  MERRY CHRISTMAS,  DOC Holliday

[Marvin Denny]

  Doc,, nobody is giving ANYBODY  "flack"   all they (myself included) are doing is moreor less stating our own preferences of what the front end should look like for our tastes.  Same way with the verticle stab and elevator. 
  He (Brad)  stated that the spinner also added several "unnecessary" ounces of weight.  There are several spinners out there for sale that weigh in at an ounce or less.
  I don't think anyone was being malitious in their comments.

  Bigiron

[peabody]

As I interpret the rule book, "needle nose" spinners are illegal.
And ALL models are required to be fitted with a spinner.
I don't like them much, except s being places where an electric starter can work.....

[Bradley Walker]

  Doc,, nobody is giving ANYBODY  "flack"   all they (myself included) are doing is moreor less stating our own preferences of what the front end should look like for our tastes.  Same way with the verticle stab and elevator. 
  He (Brad)  stated that the spinner also added several "unnecessary" ounces of weight.  There are several spinners out there for sale that weigh in at an ounce or less.
  I don't think anyone was being malitious in their comments.

  Bigiron

At what size Marvin?  Not everyone is flying 35 sized ships using tiny spinners.  My 2 1/2" spinners for the Saito 72 weighed more than 2 oz and they were the lightest around.  The Aero Products 2" sinner for the PA 61-65 can get down to about 1.5 oz.  Al Rabe was running 3" spinners on some of semi scales and they were even heavier.

The point is that spinners are a luxury item that do nothing in the performance of the plane no matter what they weigh.  For the sake of getting rid of everything possible so a plane will make weight using non contest wood, it was a good thing to go...

Anyway, I think arguing the point is silly.  Spinners are for looks.  You do not need a spinner.  I hafve flown many, many patterns without my spinner on the plane and it did not affect my ability to fly the plane except to say the plane was lighter.  That's the point.

[Marvin Denny]

 The largest Spinner I have weighed is 2 1/4 inch dia and is the Plastic Great Planes With the metal cutaway backplate.  Came in just under 1 oz and the 2 inch one slightly less.  I see no need for bigger spinners as I don't use motorcycle engines for model airplane power.

   Bigiron

[Steve Helmick]

The lowly spinner might also save you a broken or bent crankshaft, if you happen to crash. If you don't crash, no problem. They're a nice way to adjust the CG, too.  Steve

[Alan Hahn]

Rich,
Now I could be wrong here, but afaik, there is no rule about spinners in the rule book for CL Stunt or in the safety code. And I am too lazy to search through the current pdf file (yes I am that lazy!)

[Bill Little]

There is no *RULE* requiring *Spinners*, sorry Rich.  There IS wording about what is acceptable regarding spinner, though.  And what is manufactured today is not illegal.

[Al Rabe]

Bearcats don't use spinners.

Al

[Crist Rigotti]

As I interpret the rule book, "needle nose" spinners are illegal.
And ALL models are required to be fitted with a spinner.
I don't like them much, except s being places where an electric starter can work.....

Rich,
Where in the rule book are you drawing your conclusions?  Chapter and verse please.

[Bradley Walker]

The largest Spinner I have weighed is 2 1/4 inch dia and is the Plastic Great Planes With the metal cutaway backplate.  Came in just under 1 oz and the 2 inch one slightly less.  I see no need for bigger spinners as I don't use motorcycle engines for model airplane power.

   Bigiron

I am sorry I never considered the plastic spinners as being viable because one good spinner slip from my starter will melt plastic, so I never use them.  I only use aluminum spinners for this reason.

I really do not understand this entire thread, or even the purpose of this entire conversation.  I stated that I eliminated the spinner on my design because it is extra weight that serves no purpose for flying stunt patterns.  Now, we are saying the spinner is necessary, when obviously there are several design that do not use them?  I am confused. 

If you want to run a spinner, run it.  I am not lobbying for the abolishment of the spinner, I am just saying I am eliminating them on my designs.

As far as "saving an engine in the event of a crash", I have to admit I design planes to fly, I really do not design planes to crash.  I suggest if one were concerned with saving the engine in the event of a crash, they might consider flying over grass as this the only help I can offer.  I had a spinner on my Brodak 40 when it went straight in on asphalt and the engine was in three pieces.  The spinner did nothing to stop the carnage.

[RC Storick]

Cutting down on concentrated weight will help immensely. Many planes are ascetically pleasing without them. You are on the right track.

[Paul Smith]

Spinners (and mufflers) don't weight anything if you need the nose weight.

But they're DOUBLE TROUBLE if you're nose heavy.

[Marvin Denny]

As I interpret the rule book, "needle nose" spinners are illegal.
And ALL models are required to be fitted with a spinner.


  Peabody quote me the page and paragraph  where it says "needle Nosed spinners are illegal  (except in racing) and also where it says "ALL  models are required to be fitted with a spinner"

  More Smoke??

  Bigiron

[RC Storick]

 I think this statement is true. However Randy's "needle nose' spinner does not have a sharp point on it. I also think they are referring to a prop nut configuration. It does not stipulate how big the spinner must be? So a prop nut such as Harry Higly would fit the bill. Just my thoughts.

[Trostle]

Regarding the question about spinners being allowed or not allowed or required for control line event models:

I think some of the confusion comes from something that might have appeared in the AMA control line safety code (separate from the rulebook) at one time.  If I remember correctly, there was some stipulation years ago in the AMA safety code against pointed spinners for all control models.  I do not have any record or copy of the AMA safety code that was sent with the membership card years ago, and my memory that there was such a thing in the safety code is blurred at best.

There is nothing in the current AMA safety code for control line models that mentions the use of spinners.

There is nothing in the current AMA rulebook under General Information that restricts or requires the use of any spinner in any way.

There is a restriction in the AMA rulebook for the Racing events that does not allow "sharp engine spinners...in any racing event.  Blunt spinners, rounded acorn nuts, or regular shaft nuts are permissible.  Sharp spinners, such as those provided with some engines, must have the points filed off to be permissible."

There are no spinner restrictions or requirements of any kind in the AMA Control Line Precision Aerobatics rulebook.

Keith Trostle

(edit for typos)

[Marvin Denny]

  Keith, That is the way I see it.  In 1956 or so there came out a restriction on the use of sharp ,pointed spinners in any racing event  (they were allowed back in the 50s in AMA Team Race).  to my knowledge, that is the only restriction against the use, and I have NEVER seen anything REQUIRING the use of a spinner.
   I was trying to be nice.

  Bigiron

[Paul Smith]

This is a SCALE rule and it doesn't allow to the other control ine events.

It's written in paragraph 2.3 of event 509, Sport Scale.  The other events refer back to event 509, therby spreading this to all CL scale classes:

"...rounded spinner or safety nut...". 

The term safety nut is an apt term considering the probablity of somebody actually getting hit by a CL scale model and the likelihood that a rounded spinner would help it it ever did.

[Crist Rigotti]

As I interpret the rule book, "needle nose" spinners are illegal.
And ALL models are required to be fitted with a spinner.
I don't like them much, except s being places where an electric starter can work.....

Rich,
Where in the rule book are you drawing your conclusions?  Chapter and verse please.

Still waiting Rich.
I see you've posted elsewhere, so I know you've logged in since my last post.

[Alan Hahn]

Opinion Alert! 
Aas I posted first about no spinner requirement, there is no reason for people to get their shorts tight about it! 
I know Rich can get under the skin (after all take away the "R" and you have ich!  (I know it is spelled "itch"), but sometimes I find him amusing--especially when he points a needle at some of our inflated egos around here.
There are a lot of misconceptions about competition rules and safety requirements. For example, as I pointed out on another thread, there is no requirement about CL lines being stainless steel for NON-COMPETITION stunt. "Normal flying around CL"  is covered in the Safety Code--which you receive every year with the AMA membership card. Yes the Safety Code's pull specs are referenced to the Competition Regulation's pull specs (lbs per engine displacement for IC engines, or "g's" for electric motors), but if you want to test fly using fishing line, go ahead--but you do need to do a "legal" pull test.
It is the same for the oft-quoted Perfect line connectors (which are often called illegal).
Who knows where these misconceptions arise. My guess it is that at one time they were mentioned in the Competition Rule book in one or more of the numerous sections. Now they are no-longer there, but the memory persists.
As I mentioned, it is pretty easy now to do a word search for items like safety nuts, so I am lazy not to do it.

[Bob Whitely]

Seems like we're making a big deal out of a little round pointy thing.  If someone doesn't want to put a spinner on his plane so what?  Same thing applies to competition stunt, use or not use whatever you want.  And yes, there are Bearcats that do use spinners, I watched one of them win Reno this year.

For the most part most planes use them cause they look a lot better than without.  Real planes use them for aerodynamic reasons. As for models if one tends to build on the noseheavy side or is unable to design an aircraft so as to handle the spinner weight then by all means eliminate it.  Looks ugly but ya gotta do whatever works.  Kinda like a painted cockpit or a clear one with no pilot.  Bob