stunthanger.com
General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Elwyn Aud on August 26, 2017, 09:41:42 AM
-
Piston engine prop record attempt is supposed to happen tomorrow.
http://aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=0e467da3-dd22-4564-aa38-e00e70e62e50
-
Hope he does well with no problems. D>K
-
think it will be televised?
-
I rather doubt it since it doesn't have all the razzle dazzle of say, people playing Poker, but I bet any video will make it on to the internet in short order.
Edit- Just found this info on coverage of the flight.
http://shotover.com/news/article/pursuit_aviation_using_shotover_f1_during_steve_hinton_jr_record_attempt
-
Thank you for the heads-up on this one Elwyn, staying tuned here...
-
100 meters, is that AGL or MSL??
-
Anyone here any results for Steve's speed record attempt ??? Ed.
-
Anyone here any results for Steve's speed record attempt ??? Ed.
Delayed until tomorrow.
Brett
-
Thanks Brett. Any idea want time? Ed.
-
Thanks Brett. Any idea want time? Ed.
They just said in the afternoon some time.
David
-
They did get to the live feed today and I saw the Mustang take off (around 7PM CDT) and then land about 6 minutes later so the attempt seems to have been aborted for some reason. The Mustang took off and landed in opposite directions so the wind must have been negligible or it shifted directions after the take off. The video might have been in a loop mode so the footage I saw could have been taken a bit earlier.
-
They did get to the live feed today and I saw the Mustang take off (around 7PM CDT) and then land about 6 minutes later so the attempt seems to have been aborted for some reason. The Mustang took off and landed in opposite directions so the wind must have been negligible or it shifted directions after the take off.
Hey Elwyn;
What web site are you using to follow this? I would like to keep track of it also.
Thanks a lot,
Dan McEntee
-
They did get to the live feed today and I saw the Mustang take off (around 7PM CDT) and then land about 6 minutes later so the attempt seems to have been aborted for some reason. The Mustang took off and landed in opposite directions so the wind must have been negligible or it shifted directions after the take off.
Where do we find the feed or site for keeping tabs on this? ???
-
Where do we find the feed or site for keeping tabs on this? ???
Persuit aviation's facebook page, they had engine trouble and had to abort, they will try again on Tuesday.
http://pursuitaviation.com/world-speed-record
-
Thanks Dwayne! H^^
-
They are trouble-shooting a few bugs in the system. No record attempt for a day or two.
-
They are trouble-shooting a few bugs in the system. No record attempt for a day or two.
Those damn bugs! They always ruin everything! Maybe they should stock in a case of Raid! I hope they get the bugs worked out. This will kind of get you in the mood for Reno. I wonder what mods they have done for the record attempt, other than a special engine maybe?
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
-
I read that they modified the wing to be thicker at the root and thinner at the tip. I am curious as to what fuel blend they are running. Gotta be something with more oomph than you can normally buy.
-
I read that they modified the wing to be thicker at the root and thinner at the tip. I am curious as to what fuel blend they are running. Gotta be something with more oomph than you can normally buy.
https://www.facebook.com/PursuitAviationCo/photos/a.443182476048631.1073741828.442029512830594/468638090169736/?type=3&theater
Not many pics out there but finally found these. That looks like a modified cuffed prop also. read some other stuff where Steve-O's dad flew chase in a F-86 at high speed and pronounced the airplane very trimmed out with no visible trim tab deflections. Steve-O has reported seeing vapor over the top of the wing during test flights! Sounds like they have hit on a good combination that even if they do not make the attempt, their upcoming performance at Reno should be very noteworthy! Will be looking to read up on what the wing mods in more detail. Sounds like way more than a "profiling" !!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
-
Those damn bugs! They always ruin everything! Maybe they should stock in a case of Raid! I hope they get the bugs worked out.
If it was easy, everybody would be doing it.
Brett
-
With thousands of close-tolerance parts in an airplane, no wonder everything not working at the same time. I've owned simple planes, and they still had problems, sometimes.
-
I am curious as to what fuel blend they are running. Gotta be something with more oomph than you can normally buy.
VP 115/145 most likely.
-
Thanks for the reply on the avgas. I read over on WIX that during the record attempt the other day he advanced the engine to full throttle(3400 rpm) and the engine "sneezed" so he immediately throttled back and quickly landed.
-
That's correct Elwin. Backfire followed by abort and landing. Engine scrapped and induction system in bad shape. Will try again tomorrow with another engine.
-
That would explain the apparent down-wind landing. Getting it back on the ground ASAP was a priority.
-
VP 115/145 most likely.
VP Fuels 155 octane plus manganese. Plenty of ADI 50-50 alcohol/water, lots of oil & glycol spray bar water. They are going after Lyle Shelton's record with Rare Bear low altitude record of 528 mph.
-
VP Fuels 155 octane plus manganese. Plenty of ADI 50-50 alcohol/water, lots of oil & glycol spray bar water. They are going after Lyle Shelton's record with Rare Bear low altitude record of 528 mph.
I can't prove or confirm this, but over the years I've heard multiple tales of octane numbers as high as 180 being used at Reno, and from some pretty viable sources. Supposedly, just for Reno, VP does an annual one off batch of a purple "witches brew" that'll literally burn your skin, created for a special few that care to mess with it. Over the years nitrous oxide injection has been a player in the game too. The big players and front runners in the Reno Unlimited game are our modern day cowboys.
-
Nitrous is one of the reasons they blow jugs off of engines. I have seen the Bear blow a jug through the cowling and bend the jug next to it! Sure puts a lot of oil all over the airplane.
-
Working through the night. Maybe today...
-
Last message I received said they are now shooting for Saturday. I'd love to see a chart comparing the normal operating parameters for a stock Merlin to the engine used in Voodoo.
-
Reports say they completed all 4 passes. Heard of couple of unofficial reports claiming the record wasn't broken. After all the hype on their facebook page I was kind of expecting a live feed of some of the action, but there wasn't any. I'm sure they've had their hands full, but timely updates on the facebook site on the attempt have been a bit scarce.
-
Not sure if this link will work, but this is video that they posted to their facebook page of all 4 passes made today.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=471489633217915&id=442029512830594
-
On their facebook page the first pass was 554.69mph and the average for 4 passes was 531.53. Rare Bears record was 528 and they needed to beat it by 1% which they were just short of. So they set a record in their weight class for a mustang (the previous record was in the low 400s) but not an overall record, but they were still the fastest plane but technically not. Kind of confusing......
-
I can't see the 4 passes at the face book link, but here is what is reported to be one of the practice runs. It's really moving right along.
https://www.facebook.com/bernie.vasquez.5/videos/10212456836849705/ (just right click and select "open in a new window"...and it should I hope show and play for you.
T.
-
I can't see the 4 passes at the face book link, but here is what is reported to be one of the practice runs. It's really moving right along.
https://www.facebook.com/bernie.vasquez.5/videos/10212456836849705/ (just right click and select "open in a new window"...and it should I hope show and play for you.
T.
I don't think the pursuit aviation page has it but if you go to Voodoo Air Racing on facebook and scroll down a little ways it is on there.
-
Here it is. Speeds on left are each pass speed and the right is the average after each pass.
-
The significantly deteriorating speeds of each pass would appear to indicate declining power output. Wouldn't take much one wouldn't think giving the level of performance required of a reciprocating system to achieve their goals. I'm guessing passes one and three were downwind and two and four into the wind as the reason pass three was a tiny fraction faster than pass two but significantly slower than the first pass in that direction.
Heck of an attempt in any case.
-
Sounds like the new wing did what they expected, but the engine didn't perform as consistent as it needed. Makes me wonder if they have reached the limit of what they can get out of a Merlin?? From the sound of the passes in the video, that thing was REALLY humming. Surprising that it can put out for that kind of duration at all. I would be interested in what their strategy was, throttle to the firewall for all passes, or work their way up on successive passes? I just have to wonder what it sounded like in person!!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
-
I think the last pass he had an oil pressure issue but stayed in it to try to get the record.
-
Did Rare bare do 4 passes? It is my understanding that the rules for the rules for a record attempt have been made tougher since rare bare did it.
They did set a record for their weight class, which I would expect is the same as a bearcat?
-
Rare Bear made four passes for the record too, the paragraph below is from Warbird Depot...
"The winning tradition began in 1988 when the Rare Bear and her dedicated crew won both the Hamilton Air Races and the National Championships at Reno, where new qualifying and championship records were set. With victory fresh in their minds, the team never looked back. Lyle Shelton and his crew set their sights on capturing the 3Km World Speed Record for propeller driven aircraft - then 499.018 mph. Could the elusive 500 mph barrier be broken? A site for the challenge was scouted, and Las Vegas, New Mexico was selected for its high altitude and desert air. On Monday, August 21, 1989 the Rare Bear faced the challenge, sprinting the four legs of the course at an average speed of 528.33 mph - shattering the previous record by almost 30 mph! In September 1989 the Rare Bear (now hailed as "The fastest propeller driven aircraft in the world"), returned as defending champion to Reno. "Could the Rare Bear be beaten?" asked the headlines. The answer was a roaring "NO!" as she took the Gold Medal and victory once again. 1990 brought another challenge for the Rare Bear as she was fitted with a new three-blade propeller, the result of removing one blade and repositioning the remaining three."
More on The 'Bear here...
http://www.warbirddepot.com/aircraft_fighters_f8f2rb-lewis.asp
-
😊 might not b over yet. Fingers crossed. Airplane is clearly capable
-
A lot of people dont realise the quality of engineering in some of this ' ancient garbage ' . After All - Most of that MERLIN Engine must have been manufactured around SEVENTY YEARS AGO . H^^
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3b/35/ec/3b35ec5d38a5ccf5528f80fce360d0f9.jpg)
As long as too many school kids havnt got to it , a lot of it stands up well . S?P
-
A lot of people dont realise the quality of engineering in some of this ' ancient garbage ' .
Nobody called it "ancient garbage". And I suspect that it was put together closer to 70 days ago than 70 years.
Brett
-
I'd be significantly surprised if there were very many (or any) original parts in that engine!
Randy Cuberly
-
I'd be significantly surprised if there were very many (or any) original parts in that engine!
Possible that the only original parts are the block and the crankshaft, and maybe some of the screws! Probably Allison conrods, custom pistons, custom gear reduction, and a whole bunch of other custom parts. It also started out as a 1000-hp engine and it's probably running at around 4000 for these record attempts, which tends to explain the 15 minute service life.
On the other hand, also more than 70 years ago, we had very rudimentary first-generation jets that managed 100 mph more than the current record, with relatively little drama.
Brett
-
Possible that the only original parts are the block and the crankshaft, and maybe some of the screws! Probably Allison conrods, custom pistons, custom gear reduction, and a whole bunch of other custom parts....
If the block really is a WW-II vintage, is there any way(or reason) to re-heat it to a high enough temperature so as to "cook" out micro-fractures or any other weaknesses that could cause deformation under such high stresses? Or maybe that would cause more deformation.
Would it be illegal for any section of the record books if they were to to cast a new block? I'm guessing some amount of the original power plant must have to be vintage, or else a new modern engine could be built that would blow the Allison's doors off.
Rusty
-
Would it be illegal for any section of the record books if they were to to cast a new block? I'm guessing some amount of the original power plant must have to be vintage, or else a new modern engine could be built that would blow the Allison's doors off.
Rusty
I do not think there is anything in the "rules" that prohibit modifications to the engine(s) used to go for the world speed record for piston powered aircraft.
I stand corrected. The Bearcat used the Wright R 3350 engine in place of the standard Bearcat P&W 2800. It did not use the Centaurus engine for its world record flight as I incorrectly mentioned earlier.
Keith
-
If the block really is a WW-II vintage, is there any way(or reason) to re-heat it to a high enough temperature so as to "cook" out micro-fractures or any other weaknesses that could cause deformation under such high stresses? Or maybe that would cause more deformation.
Would it be illegal for any section of the record books if they were to to cast a new block? I'm guessing some amount of the original power plant must have to be vintage, or else a new modern engine could be built that would blow the Allison's doors off.
Rusty
Thanks to Jack Roush, Roush Aviation supplies the parts and expertise necessary to keep a lot of the Merlins in the air.https://www.roushaviation.com/roush-aviation-history . The Voodoo crew also knows what they are doing as well. It's my understanding that Rolls-Royce has nixed any notion that Roush might be allowed to make new castings of the major parts. If they would agree, he would do it in a heart beat.
-
I do not think there is anything in the "rules" that prohibit modifications to the engine(s) used to go for the world speed record for piston powered aircraft. The Bearcat that holds the record was powered by a British Centaurus engine, far different than the P&W 2800 originally in the Bearcat.
Keith
FAI Record File Num #8437
Status: ratified - retired by changes of the sporting code
Region: World
Class: C (Powered Aeroplanes)
Sub-Class: C-1 (Landplanes)
Category: Not applicable
Group: 1 : internal combustion engine
Type of record: Speed over a 3 km course
Performance: 850.24 km/h
Date: 1989-08-21
Course/Location: Las Vegas, NM (USA)
Claimant Lyle Shelton (USA)
Grumman F-8F "Bearcat" (N7771)
Engine: 1 Wright R-3350 Duplex cyclone
-
Speaking of Bristol sleeve valve radial engines, Youtube has a great exploded view animation of the sleeve-valve, it's nothing short of amazing. To me, anyway.
dg
-
Calling the Rare Bear a Grumman F8F Bearcat is kinda funny. I think it has about 15% of it is original parts. Sort of like calling a car with new frame, engine, transmission, suspension, rear end, brakes, wiring and interior but with a 56 Chevy body on it, a 56 Chevy.
-
Greenameyers was a mixture of series , undoubtably the Merlin is too .
Later versions produced 2200 H.P. , same as a ( production ) Griffon .
Usually post war Cannadair heads and blocks , for their thicker / stiffer decks ,
Though here in Australia the last ( most debugged ?? ) Merlin Tooling was used for C.A.C. produced Merlins , for the C.A.C. Avro Lincoln .post WWII
Greenameyers Bearcat ran 10 % Nitro , in the Methanol ( Dunno about Castor S?P) after 20 % sorta disolved a bit an engine , the exhaust sorta roasted the paint trim .
(http://www.warbirdregistry.org/f8fregistry/images/f8f-121646-4.jpg)
Firs to officially wrest it from the nazis , anyway .
-
Beat This , Snoopy , :-\
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58wb-fAW8nQ
-
FAI Record File Num #8437
Status: ratified - retired by changes of the sporting code
Region: World
Class: C (Powered Aeroplanes)
Sub-Class: C-1 (Landplanes)
Category: Not applicable
Group: 1 : internal combustion engine
Type of record: Speed over a 3 km course
Performance: 850.24 km/h
Date: 1989-08-21
Course/Location: Las Vegas, NM (USA)
Claimant Lyle Shelton (USA)
Grumman F-8F "Bearcat" (N7771)
Engine: 1 Wright R-3350 Duplex cyclone
so if this is a retired record what is the record now?
-
Calling the Rare Bear a Grumman F8F Bearcat is kinda funny. I think it has about 15% of it is original parts. Sort of like calling a car with new frame, engine, transmission, suspension, rear end, brakes, wiring and interior but with a 56 Chevy body on it, a 56 Chevy.
Randy,
You start with the S/N builder plate..and go from there. If the S/N is correct..then that's what (make and model) aircraft it is. #^
-
so if this is a retired record what is the record now?
There is no longer a single Absolute Speed record for piston powered, prop driven aircraft. Instead there are a series of Classifications based upon the gross take-off weight for the airplane. So, Voodoo set the record for its weight class. The record they surpassed had been set by one of the newly constructed Allison powered Yak-3 fighters.
FAI Record File Num #16379
Status: ratified - current record
Region: World
Class: C (Powered Aeroplanes)
Sub-Class: C-1d (Landplanes: take off weight 1750 to 3000 kg)
Category: Not applicable
Group: 1 : internal combustion engine
Type of record: Speed over a 3 km course
Performance: 669.53 km/h
Date: 2011-10-11
Course/Location: Wendover, UT (USA)
Claimant Will Whiteside Jr (USA)
Yakovlev YAK-3U (N46463)
But...
Among the fans and the Voodoo Team, the target was besting Rare Bear's record speed by 1% or more. It means nothing officially but would have felt pretty good and silenced the naysayers. That didn't quite happen. We'll just have to wait and see what the future holds.
-
From the F.A.I. Sporting Code:
3.1 CLASSIFICATION OF RECORDS
3.1.1 Classes
Aeroplane records (with the exception of Absolute World Records) shall be classified
in one of the following classes:
Class C Aeroplanes
Class H Jetlift
3.1.2 Class C Records
Class C records (with the exception of Absolute World Records) shall further be
classified as one of the following:
C-1 Landplanes
C-2 Seaplanes
C-3 Amphibians
3.1.3 Weight Classification
Aeroplane records (with the exception of Absolute World Records and Speed Over a
Commercial Airline Route records) shall be further classified by weight as follows:
a/o weight less than 300 kg
a weight 300 kg to less than 500 kg
b weight 500 kg to less than 1,000 kg
c weight 1,000 kg to less than 1,750 kg
d weight 1,750 kg to less than 3,000 kg
e weight 3,000 kg to less than 6,000 kg
f weight 6,000 kg to less than 9,000 kg
g weight 9,000 kg to less than 12,000 kg
h weight 12,000 kg to less than 16,000 kg
i weight 16,000 kg to less than 20,000 kg
j weight 20,000 kg to less than 25,000 kg
k weight 25,000 kg to less than 35,000 kg
l weight 35,000 kg to less than 45,000 kg
m weight 45,000 kg to less than 60,000 kg
n weight 60,000 kg to less than 80,000 kg
o weight 80,000 kg to less than 100,000 kg
p weight 100,000 kg to less than 150,000 kg
q weight 150,000 kg to less than 200,000 kg
r weight 200,000 kg to less than 250,000 kg
s weight 250,000 kg to less than 300,000 kg
t weight 300,000 kg to less than 400,000 kg
u weight 400,000 kg to less than 500,000 kg
v weight 500,000 kg and greater
There are still Absolute Records but that is the domain of planes like the X-15 and SR-71. Way out of our league...
-
I'm at Reno this week. Got to watch Voodoo race yesterday, Steveo came in 2nd,was beat by the Strega. They will race again this afternoon, and again for Gold on Sunday.
-
I'm at Reno this week. Got to watch Voodoo race yesterday, Steveo came in 2nd,was beat by the Strega. They will race again this afternoon, and again for Gold on Sunday.
Did you grab a t-shirt?
-
I certainly did. Saw Voodoo race Sat afternoon,came in 2nd again behind Srega. Win today would have given Steveo pole position for Gold final tomorrow, but not meant to be. Looking forward to seeing Voodoo win final on Sunday.
There was an awsume airshow put on by the Texas Air Museum team today, and some very close races in all the classes.
Its an experiance of a lifetime to be here and see and hear and smell the planes upclose .
-
could not make it this year.
My brother and long time combat flier and nats winner wrenches on the formula 1 airplanes.
This year he was crew chief for #6 AeroMagic and they qualified faster than ever and won the Silver class.
Congratulations Tom!
-
Final race for Voodoo was exciting, first few laps Voodoo was in the lead but Strega closed in and finally took over and won the gold. Big disappointment for Voodoo team, but many folks were rooting for Strega. Race was a nail biter