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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: frank williams on January 13, 2014, 04:32:10 PM

Title: Spectra Lines
Post by: frank williams on January 13, 2014, 04:32:10 PM: I've been flying for about a year now on Spectra lines. The plane is an electric that I fly at the local soccer field in the mornings.

Bottom line ...... I like them ...... they don't seem to stretch like I imagined and they weight absolutely nothing. I think that they would take much more abuse than cables in the long run and might be considered "safer" from that point of view.

The test of the line is 50# and the diameter is about .015". The brand name is "PowerPro", the key word on the box is "Spectra". The knot shown in the AMA rulebook works fine and has no slip at all. They slide fine with multiple "wraps". No signs of abrasion at all.

Anyone else used them?
I'd like to see us work toward legalizing them.
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: Perry Rose on January 13, 2014, 04:46:27 PM: I've tried Power Pro 40 lb. test and if it wasn't for the knot tying not giving me consistant line lengths I would be using it today. It does take more abuse than steel would.
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: frank williams on January 13, 2014, 05:32:20 PM: I understand the problem .... there has to be a trick to making the knot come out in the right place.
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: RC Storick on January 13, 2014, 05:36:17 PM: Is the knot any kind of NAVY knot? I have not seen it but I can think of many knots that will not slip
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: frank williams on January 13, 2014, 05:44:23 PM: Its a pretty standard fishing knot. It's not that the knot slips, it doesn't; it's just hard to get the knot to come out in the precise place you want it in order to get two lines that are exactly equal. The special knot though is required to make it hold and not come loose altogether, a double granny won't work.
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: mike londke on January 13, 2014, 05:47:30 PM: These two threads may be of interest. Mike http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=28401.0 http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=33516.0
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: Phil Krankowski on January 13, 2014, 05:59:42 PM: Stretch everything out full length. Mark with a permanent marker ("Sharpie")

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=33516.0

I elaborated more in post #2.

Phil
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: John Stiles on January 13, 2014, 06:30:51 PM: Quote from: Phil Krankowski on January 13, 2014, 05:59:42 PM
Stretch everything out full length. Mark with a permanent marker ("Sharpie")

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=33516.0

I elaborated more in post #2.

Phil
Outstanding video, thanks for pointing that out. I'm kinda leaning towards trying spectra. H^^
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: Phil Krankowski on January 13, 2014, 06:55:01 PM: Quote from: John Stiles on January 13, 2014, 06:30:51 PM
Outstanding video, thanks for pointing that out. I'm kinda leaning towards trying spectra. H^^

Believe it or not, the video link is in the PDF file for the rules, and copy/paste is all it took. The forum software took care of the rest.

Phil
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: John Stiles on January 13, 2014, 07:08:06 PM: Quote from: Phil Krankowski on January 13, 2014, 06:55:01 PM
Believe it or not, the video link is in the PDF file for the rules, and copy/paste is all it took. The forum software took care of the rest.

Phil
Thanks I have it bookmarked now! ;D
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: KenP51 on January 13, 2014, 07:41:44 PM: Your are correct Frank. The knot ain't going to slip. The thing about knots (in Spectra and likely many other materials) is that many knots are weaker than the line. So you need a knot that is as strong as the line (not many candidates). Many knots maybe; a lot, are weaker than the line. A failed knot will crash you just as fast as a broken line.

I got around the problem of tying two equal length lines by just using one continuous line that loops through my handle and is locked with a lock nut. No slipping and perfectly adjustable.

Ken
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: Steve Helmick on January 13, 2014, 08:05:33 PM: I guess opinions will vary, but the fishing industry & knot experts say that some knots tend to cut the line more than other knots. Power Pro has a 'slick' version out that might be more of a problem with knots than others. I do use Spectra line, but only for fishing, and I have not been totally happy with it until this last year. And then only for a couple of applications; specifically, Dropshotting on spinning gear and Senko-types unweighted on baitcasting. YMMV. H^^ Steve
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: frank williams on January 14, 2014, 08:16:16 AM: Mike , Phil .... thanks for the links ... I missed the thread from back last month. Sorry for the re-hash.

Ken ..... very neat idea .... lines double as handle leadouts

Steve ..... At the boat shows back a few years, there was a guy selling some little wire twisted hooks deals (difficult to explain without a picture) that you simply made a loop in your line, wrapped around the wire thingy, and ran through the bottom of the wire connector. It provided very quick attach and disconnect, and made a stronger connection than any knot you could tie. His demo was to have you tie your favorite knot, he would quickly attach his connection to the other end, and you would both pull against each other till the line broke. Your knot always broke first.

Sparky .... if we are worried about leadout friction and reaction forces at the tip of the wing ..... what about Spectra leadouts (say 120 # test) ... very smooth and very very flexable ..... need a very clean polished guide probably
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: RC Storick on January 14, 2014, 08:50:37 AM: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGL2aD9q-cE
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: RC Storick on January 14, 2014, 08:56:46 AM: Quote from: frank williams on January 14, 2014, 08:16:16 AM
Sparky .... if we are worried about leadout friction and reaction forces at the tip of the wing ..... what about Spectra leadouts (say 120 # test) ... very smooth and very very flexable ..... need a very clean polished guide probably

Are they legal?
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: KenP51 on January 14, 2014, 08:59:40 AM: Quote from: frank williams on January 14, 2014, 08:16:16 AM
Mike , Phil .... thanks for the links ... I missed the thread from back last month. Sorry for the re-hash.

Ken ..... very neat idea .... lines double as handle leadouts

Sparky .... if we are worried about leadout friction and reaction forces at the tip of the wing ..... what about Spectra leadouts (say 120 # test) ... very smooth and very very flexable ..... need a very clean polished guide probably

Hi Frank Here is about the best I can do for a pics of the system. The aluminum plate that the lines attach to also serves as the line storage for that particular plane. It is removable from the handle. In this case the handle is a 2.4 Tx handle for throttle. But the line plates fit my non Tx handle as well. The line spacing is adjustable.

As to your last comment, interesting ideal. Is there any thing that says what the lead out lines must be? If not that would also help save some weight and need less on the outside wing.

Ken
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: frank williams on January 14, 2014, 09:22:29 AM: Legal for leadouts? ..... not now I don't think .... first question is "would they last the life of a plane?' I'm sure they would functionally work well.

I was surprised that in one of the other threads someone said they had flown fast combat at the Nats last year with Spectra lines.
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: KenP51 on January 14, 2014, 09:50:38 AM: Quote from: Motorman on January 14, 2014, 09:14:34 AM
IDK but using flying line as handle lead seems sketchy imho.

MM

Was not clear from you post, but if it referenced mine, What I did was chamfer the two bolts that are drilled for the lines to pass through. There should not be any wear there. But you could also put in a very short nylon tube to the bolts. And with this handle set up I think you basically have a hard point handle. As crude as it is it does have good feel. Next one will move all the wight off the handle for improved feel.

:)

Ken
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: Jim Roselle on January 14, 2014, 01:51:18 PM: I've been using spectra on 1/2a planes for a couple if years now. What size planes are you guys flying with it?

Jim
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: Steve Helmick on January 14, 2014, 03:07:55 PM: Let's see if this works with the Utube link! ??? It's the wire clip that Frank W. mentioned in his post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH2hdqOjRU8&feature=player_embedded

The picture below shows the cute little wire clip thang that Frank was telling about seeing at the boat show. I have seen this, but it doesn't suit the sort of fishing I do (mostly plastic worms, lizards, crawdads and stuff).

But it seems to me that it might be perfect for controlines. I'm not certain that it works on Spectra lines, but I know that Spectra frays quickly and looks weak, but really isn't 'bad' for awhile. Color, if any, will leach out and fade pretty quickly.

Having a stainless wire termination on each end of the line seems like a heck of a good thing, and should be an aid in getting the lines equal length. You could make something like this yourself easily enough from the same wire you use to make line connectors (see other picture attached), and maybe combine the two into one? I would try to devise a way so that I could both CA and put heatshrink around the twists, which appears to be what carries the load. y1 Steve
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: frank williams on January 14, 2014, 04:29:06 PM: Steve .... that's the thingy I was talking about all right. I used them for bay and offshore fishing. They were good for one trip before they rusted from the salt water, but they did hold.

I made one up and tried it on the Spectra line and it holds quite well. You are right that they do make the line adjustment much easier and they could serve as line clips rather than putting an eyelet at the line end and then using a regular line clip.

Heat shrink tubing would be good over the twists, but I would be afraid of CA wicking into places you don't want.
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: mike londke on January 14, 2014, 06:50:20 PM: Quote from: Motorman on January 14, 2014, 09:14:34 AM
IDK but using flying line as handle lead seems sketchy imho.

MM
We are doing this with 1/2a combat and speed limit combat handles with excellent results. You still inspect your lines for wear as you would with braided cable and as always, do a pull test. I think for the non-competitive sport flyer this would be fine provided you are using the correct .lb test for the weight of your model. Also a warning from the makers of Power Pro about fake "China-Pro" being sold on the web. http://www.powerpro.com/publish/content/global_fish/en/us/power_pro_v2/info/counterfeit_warning.html
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: Perry Rose on March 31, 2014, 09:22:55 AM: I came across an article on a kite fishing web site on using a granny knot to tie the spectra to something and get 90% of line strength. The spectra is fed through fly line backing, which is tubular, and using the backing as as insulation the simple granny knot can be tied giving you more control over the line length. I made up a set of lines using 4 granny knots and they pulled 30 pounds easily.
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: Brett Buck on March 31, 2014, 09:57:49 AM: Quote from: Robert Storick on January 14, 2014, 08:56:46 AM
Are they legal?

As leadouts? Until someone starts back in with "interpretations", I think so. "Good idea" might be another story.

Using heavy string as the handle cable is clearly legal (with a 2X pull test) but I don't know how it would handle the sharp corners in a typical Baron-style handle, nor how you would clamp the neutral without it slipping. Leadouts would seem to be a better proposition than the handle.

Brett
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: Tom Niebuhr on March 31, 2014, 10:07:59 AM: I have not tried the Spectra type line, so I am not qualified. But at this point all it will take to make them legal for stunt is for someone to officially make the rule proposal.

Frank Williams: Looks like you are qualified to make the proposal.
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: john e. holliday on March 31, 2014, 10:34:10 AM: I think it is a little late for a proposal to go in now. Need more testing and info to be able to convince people the new line is safe for competition and sport flying. I have some line Melvin gave me for a 1/2A or even a .15 size plane but have not used it yet. Need to practice knot tying.
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: Lauri Malila on March 31, 2014, 12:45:21 PM: Hello.

Of course, someone may see it as an esthetic problem in CL, but in my free flight lines (Spectra) I use "sock" over the line in critical places. It protects the knot from cutting itself and also from other abrasion.
BUT also when done this way, the line will break inside the knot if it has not been properly run in. That means that knots are wetted with soap water and then very slowly pulled to maximum tension, in this case to 30..40 kp's. Pulling is repeated 10 times.
If not done properly, the line will break in first start because of friction heat in the tightening knot.

Lauri
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: John Stiles on March 31, 2014, 03:27:57 PM: Quote from: Lauri Malila on March 31, 2014, 12:45:21 PM
Hello.

Of course, someone may see it as an esthetic problem in CL, but in my free flight lines (Spectra) I use "sock" over the line in critical places. It protects the knot from cutting itself and also from other abrasion.
BUT also when done this way, the line will break inside the knot if it has not been properly run in. That means that knots are wetted with soap water and then very slowly pulled to maximum tension, in this case to 30..40 kp's. Pulling is repeated 10 times.
If not done properly, the line will break in first start because of friction heat in the tightening knot.

Lauri
That's real nifty right there, thanks for the info and picture! H^^
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: Dennis Leonhardi on March 31, 2014, 06:15:01 PM: I see 40# and 50# line mentioned, but nothing about the model size or weight.

I plan to do a fair amount of 1/2-A flying on Spectra lines this year ... Am I wrong in thinking 20# should be quite adequate there?

Dennis

PS: Thanks for sharing the video, links & info guys!
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: KenP51 on March 31, 2014, 06:51:50 PM: I have had good success with 20# flying a .10 powered plane I should think iy more than adequate for your needs

Ken
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: Dean Pappas on April 02, 2014, 07:27:41 PM: Hi All,
Frank, what does this airplane weigh?
Thanks,
Dean Pappas
Title: Re: Spectra Lines
Post by: Phil Spillman on April 02, 2014, 07:44:42 PM: Several years ago when these were proposed and adopted for Combat Competition(!!!!) of all things, I tried some Spectra Lines on an Old Time Stunt Plane. They worked very well almost as if there weren't any lines but great control! To make the lines of very close to equal length, I marked bot with a magic Marker at the spot where they were the correct length. I then worked very carefully to that specific mark not settling for anything less than correct in the tying part and they came out very fine and usable! You may want to try my marking idea to help you control your dimensions!