spectra lines equal length?

[John Rist]

In the past I saw a post on a easy way to tie spectra lines so they are equal length. I seem to remember that you pull the finished loop with a Philips screw driver.  Can't find the post.  Does any one have the link to the post?

[Colin McRae]

The post was 'Adventures in Spectra' in the open forum. The post contains a great video on the recommended method to make up a set of spectra lines.

[John Rist]

That's the one!  A big thanks for finding it for me.

[Dan McEntee]

That's the one!  A big thanks for finding it for me.

     That is the thread that I have asked to have pinned to the top of this or some other section, as it contains just about everything for getting started using the new fishing lines for flying control line models. This video on tying the loops at the end is the best I have seen and is what I use. I then attach a welded ring and use standard line clips. This thread really needs to be pinned some where to make it easier to find. Once some one makes a post to it, it comes back to the drop but drops back down pretty fast.

   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Ken Culbertson]

     That is the thread that I have asked to have pinned to the top of this or some other section, as it contains just about everything for getting started using the new fishing lines for flying control line models. This video on tying the loops at the end is the best I have seen and is what I use. I then attach a welded ring and use standard line clips. This thread really needs to be pinned some where to make it easier to find. Once some one makes a post to it, it comes back to the drop but drops back down pretty fast.

   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

Crist Rigotti introduced me to this knot. It is the easiest knot to get the lines the same length. Notice the little red marks on the rings.  That is how accurate this method is.  We both use welded rings for the end.  I don't like having the line rub against the connector and a ring greatly lessens it.

Ken

[Dan McEntee]

Crist Rigotti introduced me to another modification of the surgeons knot.  A double loop surgeons.  You loop the fold back over itself then tie a regular surgeon.  Gives you two loops to hold the welded ring and doubles the contact area.  Notice the little red marks on the rings.  That is how accurate his method is.

Ken

   They show that in this video. Just double the length over again before you make the loop. I use O-ring picks and a crochet hook to help with grabbing the loops to make up for my feeble fingers.

  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Ken Culbertson]

   They show that in this video. Just double the length over again before you make the loop. I use O-ring picks and a crochet hook to help with grabbing the loops to make up for my feeble fingers.

  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

Dan, you are absolutely right.  I watched it with the sound off and it didn't register that he was using the double loop.  I changed the post. 

Thanks - Ken

[Steve Helmick]

There's a fishing ring that isn't welded, but machined...I have some, somewhere. I got them from Tackle Warehouse, like about everything else I buy for fishing. They're Japanese, as I recall, and are beautifully made. Pull rating is way higher than sensible...something like 150 lbs per ring.  https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Decoy_GP_Ring_12pk/descpage-DGPR.html

I also bought some Spectra line to use...I think it's bright blue or bright red. My intention is to do some test ends with the rings and no knots, but doing binding using 10 lb test Spectra, pretty similar to the way we do stainless/copper wire/heat shrink tubing. I am wondering how the heat would affect the Spectra line, to be honest. I think if that's a problem, I'd glue the bindings with the stuff you can dip your pliers handles in to make them comfy and slip resistant. Any thoughts on these schemes?  Steve

[afml]

Hmm...
I KNOW that voice! 
Kinda scary when hearing it though the computer.
Good Info & clear concise video!
WELL DONE!
"Tight Lines!"
Wes

[Dennis Adamisin]

I started doing a couple things that substantially improved the accuracy in my Spectra lines.  I suspect others may be doing this already, but for me it was a revelation:

1. As recommended by Dick Imhof, I do the stretching BEFORE tying the second end of the line.  I start by making up a single line that is a couple feet more than double the target length of the lines I want.  I even install the welded rings.  Then stretch at 50% load while I count to 100.  This should stabilize the line stretch while also guaranteeing that the loading is identical for both lines.

NOTE if you are making lines from two spools, like color code lines, I think it is MANDATORY to do the pre-stretch prior to tying the second end. The color does not affect line stretch, but I am leery of batch to batch variation of the different line spools.

2. Double the line back on itself so the two finished ends are on the same "zero" stake.  Have the second stake at the desired line length, but use a smooth round shank screwdriver as a turnaround on the doubled line.  Pull some tension into the line and stick the screwdriver in the ground.  This assures that I get the SAME tension on each line, then mark the spot where I want to tie the line where the lines under tension pass the "target" stake.  At the NATs I made up the two most accurate sets of lines I have ever made using this method.


New Question:
Ken C: Are the connectors on your handle the AMYSPORTS connectors off Amazoom?  What size are the ones you show? Do you use other sizes also?  Do you use these clips on the airplane side also? The scissors side of scissors clips usually do not work smoothly in hardpoint handles, but putting the scissors side next to the iron ring also needs some care to make sure the ring does not pass between the scissors whereby it is only hooked on one side of the scissors - bad idea!.

[Colin McRae]

I basically do the same thing. Follow the video and first pre-stretch the lines. My lines have been coming out within 1/8" of each other in length over 60'.

And I don't use any rings. The double-loop Spectra loops are attached directly to my connectors, same as in the video.

[Lauri Malila]

[quote author=Dennis Adamisin

NOTE if you are making lines from two spools, like color code lines, I think it is MANDATORY to do the pre-stretch prior to tying the second end. The color does not affect line stretch, but I am leery of batch to batch variation of the different line spools.
[/quote]

In free flight we have quite clearly found out, that  if you compare the same line with or without the waxy colour treatment, the one without wax (white) is slightly stronger and has less flex. But without the treatment the lines seem to have slightly shorter lifespan. They get dirty and fuzzy more quickly.
I use the Superline #150 and #200. I make my lines 3-4” under the max. allowed 50m lenght with 5kp tension . I pre-tension the new lines slowly to about 30kp tension, just in order to tighten the knots. I haven’t noticed any measurable  permanent creep during the pre-tensioning or even after hundreds of very violent launches.
But one thing that affects the ”feel” (at least in FF, I can see it in launch hieight), is that a new line straight from spool doesn’t have a round cross section, it’s usually square or kind of flat, depending on the braid type. It takes some time to stabilize. L

[Ken Culbertson]

Ken C: Are the connectors on your handle the AMYSPORTS connectors off Amazoom?  What size are the ones you show? Do you use other sizes also?  Do you use these clips on the airplane side also? The scissors side of scissors clips usually do not work smoothly in hardpoint handles, but putting the scissors side next to the iron ring also needs some care to make sure the ring does not pass between the scissors whereby it is only hooked on one side of the scissors - bad idea!.

Don't know the brand but they did come from Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07H5DCP63?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

They are perfect for the thin hardpoints.  Once bushed it is hard to get a scissors type clip on.  These slide on easily.  I only use them on the handle and really like them.
I would not use them on the plane side. For my grossly overweight 70oz canard I am using #6.  I pull tested them to 50lbs each (my scale only goes to 50) and they held fine.

Ken

[Dan McEntee]

Don't know the brand but they did come from Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07H5DCP63?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

They are perfect for the thin hardpoints.  Once bushed it is hard to get a scissors type clip on.  These slide on easily.  I only use them on the handle and really like them.
I would not use them on the plane side. For my grossly overweight 70oz canard I am using #6.  I pull tested them to 50lbs each (my scale only goes to 50) and they held fine.

Ken

       Those look like a kissing cousin to the already banned snap swivel, and they are even called "snaps." Would these be allowed in competition??

   Just asking,
    Dan McEntee

[Dennis Adamisin]

       Those look like a kissing cousin to the already banned snap swivel, and they are even called "snaps." Would these be allowed in competition??

   Just asking,
    Dan McEntee

Hi Dan
There is no swivel unit involved, each clip appears to be made from a continuous loops of wire with overlapping captures.  The #6 size clips Ken shows are rated at 110#.  I dunno, they look pretty robust to me.  Meanwhile the shape of the clip looks like it would smoothly clear the bushings on a hardpoint handle and also retain the wire loops on a Spectra line (or the brass ferrules of cable lines) without getting hung up.  Got some on order...

[Ken Culbertson]

       Those look like a kissing cousin to the already banned snap swivel, and they are even called "snaps." Would these be allowed in competition??

   Just asking,
    Dan McEntee

It is "swivels" that are banned Dan, not "snaps".  The word "snaps" doesn't even appear in the rule book anywhere. The #6 snap that I use is rated at 110lbs. The large Sullivan clip we all use is rated at 50lbs.  The tiny #2 clip which is 1/2 the size of the one I use is rated at 55lbs.

Ken

Sorry Dennis, I didn't see your post.  You will like them if you use a hardpoint.

[Ken Culbertson]

Here is a little tidbit of information I ran across checking the rules for lines.  It is in the general rules under Spectra Lines 5.3.

"Aircraft shall be weighed with either a full fuel tank or battery on board."  Somehow that got changed when the PA rules were formulated.  Wonder why. I realize that this doesn't apply to us since our pull test covers everything.  Good thing too because the General rules also require connectors that have a rating each that is equal to or exceeding the line strength.  That would require 100# clips for 100# Spectra.  90% of the connectors out there would be banned - mine would pass.

Ken