Spectra Connectors

[Ken Culbertson]

With Spectra back in the news again I thought I would try some to see what the flap was all about.  I have the lines, selected the plane to sacrifice,  figured out how to tie the AMA knot (i there a better one)  with only two hands but I still don't know what to tie that knot to.  Directly on the line clip doesn't work unless I use 2 clips on each end (I hate the old slider type so that is out).  Using an eyelet exposes the line to a metal edge - not good.  Can we use fishing swivels or does someone make a really small metal "O" ring or double "O" (looks like an "8") which would be perfect.

If anybody uses them, let me know how you do it.  Also, is there a trick to getting the lines the same length?  Should you wipe them, if so with what (I would think just a clean cloth).  I would assume that water is not an issue, after all it is fishing line.

I understand that they use this stuff for stunt kites.  Does that mean that my view that we should be able to fly on kite string if it will pass the pull test is now a serious comment?

I tried searching all of this but all I found were arguments for and against and not much on the how.

Thanks - Ken

[dave siegler]

I tie it right to a line clip like this one

[kenneth cook]

             I use the clip Dave shows as well. I fly with button style bellcranks but when I want to fly something with conventionally terminated leadouts, I use the clip. My buttons require about a 1/4" loop on the end so I open the clip and insert the line. When I hook it to the plane though, I take the clip and do a 180 so that the solid end is on the Spectra and the split end is in  the eyelet. Reason being is that I have had the line try to find it's way out of the clip via the split end.

[Perry Rose]

There is a better and more accurate way to tie spectra type line. I use a thimble just like using cables.  Spectra type line cuts itself by rubbing against itself. To eliminate rubbing you need to thread the spectra through a foot long piece of 30# fly line backing. Just pass the spectra through the eye of a needle, open the tubular fly line backing and run the needle through it backwards. It's easy after the first one. Then I use a granny knot on the thimble. Or a surgeons knot with a locking knot if you prefer. This way you can get the lines pretty close to the same length.

[Ken Culbertson]

I tie it right to a line clip like this one

I use the same clips.  Problem is that the "fat" end will not fit my leadout eyelets or the holes in my handle.

Thanks!

Ken

[Brent Williams]

 

Here's a photo montage sent to me by Ara Dedekian illustrating his method for spectra line ends.

Here are some photos of how I tie the rings onto Spectra line. It’s not etched in stone. Don’t know if the double wrap accomplishes anything, and the square knot can be backed up with a knot of your choice. Sorry to say I can’t remember how many pounds I pulled with this system but it exceeded what the rules call for. The 100# Spectra shown below passed the pull test at Brodaks in Speed Limit Combat. The double wrap shown is for the demo, I usually do four wraps, it gets tricky after that. You have to work the knot tight as it’s against the fixed end. I use a little Armour-All as a lubricant to help.

He also referenced it in another post.  https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/little-legends/msg511725/#msg511725

      I sport fly Phil C's Lil Hacker 1/2A combat planes with 30# Spectra. There's no discernable difference compared to flying with .008 steel lines.

      I can get matching sets of lines by tying fishing rings on the ends. I've tried various knots to attach the rings but I've settled on tying the first ring with a square knot and backing it up with a surgeons knot. I'll finish it off by CAREFULLY burnishing the end with a flame. The first end is free. It's then attached to a fixture. The other end of the line is set out to the desired length and tied to a ring held in a fixture. It's secured again with a square knot and backed up with a surgeons knot.

      I fly sport, stunt and combat with Spectra using these rings and knots and haven't had any failures. Pull testing is the 'feels about right' method. The largest model flown with this setup is a throttled 56" biplane with with a 70 Surpass four stroke.

      Tying the rings with the square knots first gives you the accurate lengths. Using the surgeons knot only varies the length when drawn tight.

[Steve Helmick]

There are oblong (they call them "oval", but they're oblong) split rings now, so I'd suggest emphatically to use them, and avoid the round ones, which are dangerous IMO. There are also "egg" shaped ones, and solid ones. You decide. 

I haven't used Spectra lines yet, but have purchased some line to use (it's red...you can also get a bright blue...look at various brands at TackleWarehouse.com.  Yellow and green line will be hard to see on dry grass and green grass, respectively. I'm hoping red or blue will be more universally visible. Be careful not to get Spectra lines wrapped around your fingers, hands, wrists, feet or neck. That stuff WILL cut the heck out of you, so be careful with it!

I have not decided how I will fasten the ends, but probably will take two or three wraps around an oblong split ring and bind/glue the thing more or less like AMA dictates for solids and cables...but not copper wire. From there, i'll use the common paperclip type clips from Brodak, Sullivan or SIG...three stock ones all the same size and one custom made one that's longer, made on my Jim Lee/Derek Moran clip bender. Below are good brands of "oval" and "egg" shaped "split rings"...not all of which are split!    Steve

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Decoy_GP_Ring_12pk/descpage-DGPR.html

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Decoy_Egg_Ring_12pk/descpage-DEGG.html

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Owner_Oval_Split_Ring_20pk/descpage-OVR.html

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Owner_Tear_Drop_Split_Ring/descpage-TDS.html

[mike londke]

No need for split rings, crimps or thimbles. I copied this from one of Phil's posts about knots. The modified surgeons knot leaves you with a loop so you can use any type of common CL connector.         From Phil:


Using a crimp tube on Spectra is a lot of un-necessary work.   Knots are much more reliable.  There is no need for an eyelet or thimble.  Spectra is about 5 times as abrasion resistant as stainless line.

Using the line sizes specified in the combat rules simply folding the line back on itself and tying a simple overhand know will get you 50% of the rated breaking strength everytime.  This matches the strength you get from similar sized stainless steel line. Making two wraps through the loop(surgeon's knot) gets the break up to 60%, significantly stronger than stainless.    Folding the line over and tying a figure eight knot or a modified surgeon's knot(make an overhand knot in the folded line and then bend the fold around and through the other side of the loop) gets the breaking strength up to 70-80% of the rated strength.  Make sure that both strands of the fold(the standing and the free end) are pulled up evenly to get a smooth knot with both strands laid evenly next to each other.  That makes the knot stronger.  But if it doesn't work that way for you, the worst that can happen is that the knot will break at 50% and still be as strong as steel.

If you use the knot shown in the AMA general rule(5 turn uni knot) be sure and tie a blocking knot in the free end.  Spectra can be very slippering, and there is nothing to prevent the line from simply sliding through the knot and coming apart.  After tying the knot for an overhand knot in the free end and work it up close to the main knot before pulling it tight.

John's idea of using a palomar knot right on the line clip works well too.  The palomar won't let the line slide through and untie the knot.

I managed to break a set of .018 stainless lines in flight the other day.  The plane was a 14 ounce F2D ship with a Magnum 15 flying about 70 mph.  The wind was gusty, the plane had a warp, and it did a snap, went across the  circle, hit the end of the lines and bounced back to the other side and popped both lines.  Nothing is failure proof.
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phil Cartier

[Bill Ambrose]

As an avid fisherman on the Chesapeake Bay I highly recommend a double Palomar knot.  It's easy to tie and I've never lost a fish because of the knot. 

[Ken Culbertson]

Thanks for all the advice.  I found this online and it might be of use.

https://www.google.com/search?q=double+palomar+knot+illustration&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=A_E90gIwz2nyeM%253A%252Ca3dGq3XBru738M%252C_&usg=AFrqEzeRsIHyMnQB-odazalFnGNw1954DQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi-wKOPh7jdAhUCRqwKHb9iCL0Q9QEwC3oECAMQBg#imgrc=A_E90gIwz2nyeM:

Ken

One more thing - I am planning to use fishing barrel  connectors to terminate the lines and give me some way of attaching to the plane and handle.  The ones I picked up are 230lb rated.  Is there any problem with these?   I would just tie to the line connectors but the "fat" ends will not fit the eyelets or the handle.

[Target]

As an avid fisherman on the Chesapeake Bay I highly recommend a double Palomar knot.  It's easy to tie and I've never lost a fish because of the knot.

Bill - I'm an old school fisher. Is there an issue with the normal Palomar knot in Spectra line?  The regular Palomar works great in mono. I use it whenever possible in mono.
Thanks,
Target

[GERALD WIMMER]

Hello
Here's a link to some videos of tying knots and a comparison test :
https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/best-fishing-knot-for-braided-line-swivel-hook-lure/

Have used modified Uni-Knot (double loop at start and 10 turns) too good effect so far but would be keen to try some of the other recommendations here to see how they compare.
I have also used cheap Maxistrike Braid from China too but it has a larger drag factor (thicker section per LB rating and fewer strands then Spectra) but otherwise works well with no failures or slipping problems.
Regards Gerald

[Air Ministry .]

Also, is there a trick to getting the lines the same length?

Do two ends . One End on EACH LINE .
Run em out together .

Heave & twist till you confident theyre even .

At this stage you bend in the pliers even , both lines , simultaeneous .

You migh have to use masking tape on the thread there . Doing One at a Time is how to get uneven lengths .

[Steve Helmick]

One more thing - I am planning to use fishing barrel  connectors to terminate the lines and give me some way of attaching to the plane and handle.  The ones I picked up are 230lb rated.  Is there any problem with these?   I would just tie to the line connectors but the "fat" ends will not fit the eyelets or the handle.

I'm not sure what you mean by "fishing barrel connectors", but be aware that AMA rules specifically ban the use of any sort of swivel. There are "barrel", "crane" and "ball bearing" swivels (at least) and I use the later two for various uses in my fishing. Barrel-type are roughly half the pull rating of crane-type, for some reason. If you want to look in the "Terminal Tackle" section at Tackle Warehouse, there are some clips that are interesting, but I don't see that they are as useful with our typical NW Style hard point handles. Also, those clips shown above (McMahon, I believe they are called)...beware...some are brass with a black finish of some sort. You don't want those.  Steve

[Ken Culbertson]

I'm not sure what you mean by "fishing barrel connectors", but be aware that AMA rules specifically ban the use of any sort of swivel. There are "barrel", "crane" and "ball bearing" swivels (at least) and I use the later two for various uses in my fishing. Barrel-type are roughly half the pull rating of crane-type, for some reason. If you want to look in the "Terminal Tackle" section at Tackle Warehouse, there are some clips that are interesting, but I don't see that they are as useful with our typical NW Style hard point handles. Also, those clips shown above (McMahon, I believe they are called)...beware...some are brass with a black finish of some sort. You don't want those.  Steve

Well if they are banned then they must work so I won't use them.  Guess I just have to use double clips till I can find some 1/4" steel rings.

Ken

[mike londke]

 Here is a modified surgeons knot with a loop on 3 types of connectors. Scissor, slide, and buttons.

[Ken Culbertson]

Here is a modified surgeons knot with a loop on 3 types of connectors. Scissor, slide, and buttons.

Mike:
Is having the loop better than not having it with something like the AMA knot?
I can't use the 1st (Eyelet openings too small on plane and handle) or 3rd one and my only line failure ever came from the clips in #2.  I may be forced to use them again though.

Thanks - Ken

[mike londke]

The loop makes it easy to use any connector. Never had one break there. If you are attaching lines directly to the bellcrank you have to inspect the line at the lead out guide for wear.  I have broken them there after losing line tension and upon the jerk when it’s regained. As a matter of fact that’s the only place I had a set break, never at the loop or the knot. As for the slide connector they are prone to opening with a hard jerk so I solder the slide, haven’t had a soldered one open up. Phil Cartier showed me how to tie this knot and I’ve been using it ever since. He’s been using the stuff longer than anyone else and was involved in getting them approved for Combat.

[mike londke]

And here is an excellent video by Mike Stinson on how to tie the knot with a double loop at the termination instead of a single loop.

[john e. holliday]

Sure makes it look easy.

[Ken Culbertson]

The loop makes it easy to use any connector. Never had one break there. If you are attaching lines directly to the bellcrank you have to inspect the line at the lead out guide for wear.  I have broken them there after losing line tension and upon the jerk when it’s regained. As a matter of fact that’s the only place I had a set break, never at the loop or the knot. As for the slide connector they are prone to opening with a hard jerk so I solder the slide, haven’t had a soldered one open up. Phil Cartier showed me how to tie this knot and I’ve been using it ever since. He’s been using the stuff longer than anyone else and was involved in getting them approved for Combat.

Good Idea.  I will feel more comfortable that way.   All of the references seem to point towards the 100lb line.  Is there a problem with the 65lb?  It is still stronger than .015 steel and it is the largest I can find at any of the local stores.  My 42oz OS35s powered Nobler ARF has volunteered to be the test plane for Spectra tomorrow AM and I promised her that the lines would hold.  You really don't want to break a promise to a Nobler ARF.  The word will get out and you won't find a plane that will let you do a triangle after that.

Those soldered clips will work and the video on the knot closes the loop. 

Thanks - Ken

Ken

[mike londke]

The 100lb reference is because that is what is required for Combat. For other models refer to the AMA chart.   5.3.5.1 Spectra Lines
Lines made of Spectra fiber, made of gel spun ultra-high
molecular weight polyethylene are permitted for sport
flying and demonstration purposes. Spectra lines are not
permitted in competition unless the specific rules for the
event flown expressly permit such use. The use of high
visibility yellow lines is recommended, but not required.
For sport and demonstration flying with two lines, Spectra
lines shall have the following strengths:
Aircraft Engine Watts Rated
Weight Displacement Spectra St.
24 oz. .09 300 20 lbs. .010”
40 oz. .25 450 40 lbs. .013”
64 oz. .40 600 60 lbs. .016”
75 oz. .75 750 100 lbs. .018”

[Ken Culbertson]

The 100lb reference is because that is what is required for Combat. For other models refer to the AMA chart.
Weight Displacement Spectra St.
64 oz. .40 600 60 lbs. .016”

Looks like I am good to go then.  All I need to do is dig up 4 of those old clips and apologize to my brass lines.  Let you know how it goes, thanks for the solution.

Ken

[mike londke]

Just an FYI. I’ve been trying the new PowerPro Maxcuatro Line on Stunt planes. It is %25 thinner than their “normal” line. You can use a stronger line than AMA recommends and get the benefit of it being thinner. Less drag.

[Ken Culbertson]

Just an FYI. I’ve been trying the new PowerPro Maxcuatro Line on Stunt planes. It is %25 thinner than their “normal” line. You can use a stronger line than AMA recommends get the benefit of it being thinner. Less drag.

Where did you get it?  None of our sporting goods stores have it.

Ken

[John Rist]

Where did you get it?  None of our sporting goods stores have it.

Ken

As with everything - eBay.  However looks like the stuff ain't cheep!!! 

[mike londke]

Where did you get it?  None of our sporting goods stores have it.

Ken

My BassPro right here in Nashville stocks it.

[Ken Culbertson]

My BassPro right here in Nashville stocks it.

Ours doesn't show it on their website *BUT* that doesn't mean they don't have it.  We have 2 of them one 20mi East or me and one 20mi West of me.  If the test flights tomorrow are productive, I will make the drive.  I am hoping that I will love them and they pass the rule change allowing them or hate them and still hope they pass the rule change!

Ken

[mike londke]

As with everything - eBay.  However looks like the stuff ain't cheep!!! 

$55 for 300 yards. Enough to make 5 sets of lines= $11 a set. Pretty cheap to me.

[Target]

Why not just choke a thimble onto the loop in the end of the line?
So long as the edges of the thimble groove are to the inside of the groove, there is nothing to chafe then.....

R,
Target

[Target]

$55 for 300 yards. Enough to make 5 sets of lines= $11 a set. Pretty cheap to me.

And they will never "kink".... Just need to watch out for tying knots accidentally, and abrasion/chafe.
I am especially interested for 1/2A (OK, really 1cc) lines. The .008 stuff seems like it is pretty easy to weaken, and the weight for a small plane to pull would be seemingly a much higher percentage of the weight of the plane. More tip weight needed.

R,
Target

[mike londke]

Why not just choke a thimble onto the loop in the end of the line?
So long as the edges of the thimble groove are to the inside of the groove, there is nothing to chafe then.....

R,
Target

  The single or double loop is more than adequate the line is strong enough it doesn't need a thimble. Why make it more complicated?

[Ken Culbertson]

   Why make it more complicated?

Isn't that what we do here? 

On the serious side, what can I expect from the 1st flight?  Anything to watch our for?  Anything to look for?
(Sorry, I was a Boy Scout)

Ken

[mike londke]

Do a pull test and fly.

[Ken Culbertson]

Do a pull test and fly.

You do understand that for quite a while I have been arguing that we should be able to fly on kite string if it will take the pull test.  I never meant that literally!

Ken

[Steve Helmick]

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Power_Pro_Maxcuatro_Spectra_Braided_Line_Moss_Green/descpage-PMXC.html

Personally, I see the dark green color as a disadvantage for use on green grass. Ours might be green or tan during flying season, depending on where we're flying, so I selected the "Vermillion" shade of standard Power Pro.

I'd also be tempted by these:

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Sufix_Performance_Braided_Line_Fluorescent_Neon_Fire/descpage-SPBFNF.html

or

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Sufix_832_Braided_Line_Coastal_Camo/descpage-S83CC.html

You won't find Spectra lines to be impervious to damage from being trampled, so being visible can count for a lot. If you get a knot in the middle of a length of line, you probably should scrap it, because that WILL be a weak spot.

I have also read on fishing forums that there have been some instances where "Spectra" purchased on eBay was NOT Spectra, and was actually counterfeit junk from China, so IF you buy it from eBay, buy from a trusted vendor.  Steve

[Brett Buck]

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Power_Pro_Maxcuatro_Spectra_Braided_Line_Moss_Green/descpage-PMXC.html

Personally, I see the dark green color as a disadvantage for use on green grass. Ours might be green or tan during flying season, depending on where we're flying, so I selected the "Vermillion" shade of standard Power Pro.

I'd also be tempted by these:

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Sufix_Performance_Braided_Line_Fluorescent_Neon_Fire/descpage-SPBFNF.html





https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Sufix_832_Braided_Line_Coastal_Camo/descpage-S83CC.html

You won't find Spectra lines to be impervious to damage from being trampled, so being visible can count for a lot. If you get a knot in the middle of a length of line, you probably should scrap it, because that WILL be a weak spot.

I have also read on fishing forums that there have been some instances where "Spectra" purchased on eBay was NOT Spectra, and was actually counterfeit junk from China, so IF you buy it from eBay, buy from a trusted vendor.  Steve

   I would note that none of the lines mentioned here would be legal under the proposed rule, not being the correct brand (counterfeit or not).

     Brett

[Steve Helmick]

Brett, what brand of non-metallic line is specified in the proposed rule, and why is a specific brand to be required? What is the brand name, and where do we get it? The brands I posted links to are very highly respected and widely used among my fellow fishermen. No such requirement is applied to solid or stranded cables, after all.     Steve

[Steve Helmick]

Well if they are banned then they must work so I won't use them.  Guess I just have to use double clips till I can find some 1/4" steel rings.

Ken

Ken, did you look at these, from Decoy?

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Decoy_GP_Ring_12pk/descpage-DGPR.html

They are solid stainless steel, and sort of an egg shape. I think these would be my starting point. What I'm not sure of, is which size is bigger than the other, or how large they are. What I would do is buy both sizes and return the ones I didn't want to use, in exchange for the size I did want to use. Next time I order some fishing tackle, I'll put them on the list...both sizes.

I am still against tying knots, because I know I can get much closer to equal lengths if I bind them to some sort of clip or ring. For STUNT, or even sport, I would not do it the way the combat guys suggest. They have a much higher line scrap rate, their planes are much more resistant to crash damage, they typically use cable handles, while I'm never going to use one ever again...etc.  I am going to study up on what sort of glue to use on the line bindings. A rubberized CA or perhaps Urethane glue seem most suitable to me.  Steve

[Ken Culbertson]

Thanks to all of you for your advice.  I cut a set of 65' Spectra lines and flew on them this morning.  Had to use the old "slider" clips which I hate.  I was impressed with the results and I will probably continue using them if the proposal passes.  It would be pointless to practice on them if they could not be used in competition.  To Brett's point, it doesn't matter if there is something better if it is not legal.  Personally I think the part of the rule specifying a particular manufacturer is unnecessary, unenforceable and burdensome to the ED but, if that is the rule, then that is what I use.

I experienced most of what was predicted by those that have used them.  They had less stretch than the Brass lines I am using but not that much less.  They do produce more bow and I moved the leadouts back a tad to allow for it.  What sold me were two things.  First, the tension overhead was the best I can remember.  Second, the lack of inertia induced yaw in the corners is reason enough to use them.

Now the negatives.  Trying to tie the AMA knot is going to take some practice, no, lots of practice and mood enhancing drugs.  I am going to have to get used to the humm when the lines are wrapped.  Got to be careful not to set them down in the Pipe exhaust puddles and remembering to buy yellow next time.

Overall, if they become legal, I will probably use them but until they are contest legal I will practice with what I have to compete with.

Ken 

[Brett Buck]

Brett, what brand of non-metallic line is specified in the proposed rule, and why is a specific brand to be required? What is the brand name, and where do we get it? The brands I posted links to are very highly respected and widely used among my fellow fishermen. No such requirement is applied to solid or stranded cables, after all.     Steve

https://modelaircraft.org/sites/default/files/files/CLA19-01.pdf

   I am not defending it (I had the same sort of argument), and I have nothing per se against Spectra lines,  but the proposal requires specific brands.

    Brett

[Target]

I thought that "Spectra" was a material, not a brand, per se.
I could be wrong, but I think there are several brands that use spectra material to make lines?

[Brent Williams]

I thought that "Spectra" was a material, not a brand, per se.
I could be wrong, but I think there are several brands that use spectra material to make lines?

Yes, and no.  The issue is trusting the sourcing of the material.  Hence the specific brand requirement.

[Target]

Isn't "Spectra" just a branded name for Dyneema? Like Kevlar is a branded name for Aramid?

[Steve Helmick]

Thanks, Brett, for posting the pdf. I have seen that previously, but I'm still perplexed by the GSUMP "requirement" in the pull test chart since the text started out referring to "Spectra". We still don't know what brand to buy or where to obtain it. Boxes of fishing line just don't say "GSUMP". They may say "Spectra" or "Dyneema". Is there a difference between those two? Vague memory reminds me that "Spectra" is 'Murican and "Dyneema" is European? But is it the same stuff? IDK. 

It looks to me like the user is responsible for knowing what the line material is, and since none of the braided line boxes are going to say "GSUMP" on them, I'll just go ahead and call BS on the proposal as written, until somebody can 'splain why, what & where. If it was written as "Spectra" or "Spectra or Dyneema", ok fine. Since Chris and Brent posted before I got this done, there are no brands specified in the proposal. Seems to me, that makes all of them illegal, unless you find a brand called "GSUMP", and there isn't one.

I just went down in the garage and pawed through about 20 spools and boxes of braided line (maybe half of what's in stock!). Some said "Dyneema" and some said "Spectra", while others didn't say either. Power Pro said "Spectra" on all the boxes. I have a spool of "Tuf-Line" and some spools of Stren braid that didn't say anything. A partial spool of (very old) Cabela's "Evolution" line said "100% Dyneema" on the spool. Braids stand up well to the test of time. Some say braids are easy to fray and break on sharp rocks...I guess we don't have sharp rocks around here.    Steve   

[Brett Buck]

Thanks, Brett, for posting the pdf. I have seen that previously, but I'm still perplexed by the GSUMP "requirement" in the pull test chart since the text started out referring to "Spectra". We still don't know what brand to buy or where to obtain it. Boxes of fishing line just don't say "GSUMP". They may say "Spectra" or "Dyneema". Is there a difference between those two? Vague memory reminds me that "Spectra" is 'Murican and "Dyneema" is European? But is it the same stuff? IDK. 

It looks to me like the user is responsible for knowing what the line material is, and since none of the braided line boxes are going to say "GSUMP" on them, I'll just go ahead and call BS on the proposal as written, until somebody can 'splain why, what & where. If it was written as "Spectra" or "Spectra or Dyneema", ok fine. Since Chris and Brent posted before I got this done, there are no brands specified in the proposal. Seems to me, that makes all of them illegal, unless you find a brand called "GSUMP", and there isn't one.

I just went down in the garage and pawed through about 20 spools and boxes of braided line (maybe half of what's in stock!). Some said "Dyneema" and some said "Spectra", while others didn't say either. Power Pro said "Spectra" on all the boxes. I have a spool of "Tuf-Line" and some spools of Stren braid that didn't say anything. A partial spool of (very old) Cabela's "Evolution" line said "100% Dyneema" on the spool. Braids stand up well to the test of time. Some say braids are easy to fray and break on sharp rocks...I guess we don't have sharp rocks around here.    Steve

   You may not have read down far enough, it talks about labels or brand names.

     Brett

[Steve Helmick]

Nope, I read all the way to the bottom and it didn't say anything about either labels or brand names. Just "Spectra" and then ends with the sentence about the AMA's Claims Dept. Is there another page?    Steve

[Target]

I'm pretty certain that Dyneema is the material name, not a brand. I'm also pretty certain that "Spectra" is the Dyneema that is produced by Honeywell.
I understand that phonies are to be avoided, due to being of dubious quality, but how is anyone but the purchaser to know what they have?

It seems that the pilot will be "on their honor" there. Just as they are with regards to the test strength of the lines, since it flattens out when you measure it.
The whole thing is interesting because as someone pointed out, ANY brand of steel line is allowed, and that could be of dubious quality as well.

The pull test should weed out the problems, but, we don't pull test before EVERY flight at a contest, do we? Then there is no way of knowing if lines get damaged between the flights at a contest, after the pull test has been done prior...

I don't see the logic of specifying a brand of material.
What happens when better brand and use of that material comes out? You can't use it, because of the specification I guess, right?
I'd like to hear an explanation by the gents that submitted the proposal.
I'm sure they could shed some light on what their thought process was at the time.

No angst intended to anyone....

Thanks,
Target

[Brett Buck]

Nope, I read all the way to the bottom and it didn't say anything about either labels or brand names. Just "Spectra" and then ends with the sentence about the AMA's Claims Dept. Is there another page?    Steve

   Only lines sold under the Spectra or Dyneema brand names shall be used, and lines sold as an equivalent product shall be prohibited. Lines sold under the Fusion name shall also be prohibited.

   I would note that the example pictures *do not* comply with the wording of the rule - none are Spectra or Dyneema brand names, the example is a "Power Pro" brand. I have a reel that only says Spectra on it - with some Chinese lettereing at the bottom. Real or counterfeit?  I don't know.

     Brett

[Lauri Malila]

Normally you recognize the counterfeit product from stretch; they are totally unusable for our use (well, I don't understand why even the good stuff should be used but thats another thing..) and no one with common sense will use them.
But if you accept only a certain brand, like Power Pro, in your rules, it's totally silly because because there will allready be better products available that use the same fibre.
Especially Power Pro is not the best anymore becauseit has a braided sleeve type structure, it has a flat cross section that stretches more and is not aerodynamically good. If you look fir example at the Rapala line instead, it has clearly less stretch and cross section is round straight from the reel. L