Spectra braided line on sale at Bi-Mart

[Mark Mc]

If you have a local Bi-Mart in your area, they have Spectra line on sale.  I stopped by my local store today to pick up some lead and split rings in the Fishing Department, and saw the Spectra on sale.  It's $9.99 for 150 yards of 20 to 50 pound test line, either Green or Hi-Viz Yellow.  300 yards of 65 pound test is $24.99, green or yellow.  Usually the Hi-Viz Yellow is more than the green, so that's also a plus to get it at the same price.  I was at Sportsman's Warehouse last week and they wanted $24.99 for the 50 pound test, around $20 for the 20 pound, and I don't remember what the 30 pound was.  They charged $49.99 for the 65 pound test. 

I bought boxes of 30 pound, 50 pound, and 65 pound Spectra.  I already had a box of 50 pound, but it's in green, and since I prefer the Hi-Viz Yellow I couldn't pass it up at $9.99.

Per the AMA Control Line General Rules handbook, Spectra is good for sport flying at:

20 Lb Test - .09 or 300 Watt aircraft weighing up to 24 ounces
40 Lb Test - .25 or 450 Watt aircraft weighing up to 40 ounces
60 Lb Test - .40 or 600 Watt aircraft weighing up to 60 ounces

If you use Spectra, or are looking to try it out, now is a good time to go get some if you have a local Bi-Mart store.  Sale is through 9/28.

Mark

[Steve Helmick]

What brand of Spectra line? I also fish, therefore I'm double fussy!  Steve

[Mark Mc]

It's the Power Pro line of Spectra.  Made in USA.

[Steve Helmick]

I like Power Pro, most especially the "Slick 8". I have some 40 lb test on order right now, in fact. I have heard of Bi-Mart, and have seen them in various places around the PNW, but they're pretty much Oregon or E.WA, and none on my turf. So, I Googled them and found that there's one in E-burg and I might be going through there sometime soon.

The $5 for the lifetime membership isn't a horrible deterrent, so I'll try to stop and visit one, perhaps E-burg, Salem, or Albany. Will be in Salem for Fall Fallies, and should go to Corvallis to visit the family in Crystal Lake Cemetery while I'm in the area.

This PNW thing makes me ask...do I know you?  Steve

[Larry Fernandez]

What is the diameter of the 60 pound line?

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

[Motorman]

Someone told me this line deteriorates over time. I've got some I bought years ago and not sure I should use it. Don't you loose about half the pull test because of the knot?

[Steve Helmick]

The Power Pro "Slick 8" is .016" for 65 lb test, and .013" for the 40 lb test I ordered. I checked the multiple other varieties, and the chart they show all as being the same size. However, I did not check the lead core or the hollow core, 'cause I don't think either would be appropriate for our use. The Vermilion would be perfect for a Stunt Fairy.

Just from fishing with braid, I can tell you that it is quite aero draggy stuff compared to Copolymer ("monofil") or Fluorocarbon. Sometimes, it's important enough to be a PITA. From that experience, I honestly don't see any reason to use this stuff for flying toy airplanes. Stainless steel cables are great stuff, especially when connected to a hardpoint handle! Don't forget that you'll need less tipweight....

As to aging, I wouldn't worry about that at all if it has been stored inside, out of direct sunlight, etc. Regarding knots, using the right knot is very important with any fishing line. I generally use a Palomar, but recently changed a rod/reel from 10 lb test BPS fluorocarbon line to 10 lb test Seaguar Red Label. The Palomar no longer worked, so I changed to a Trilene knot. That's sort of an "Improved Clinch Knot", but at least the way I tied it, I ran the line through the eye of the jighead twice. Several knots can be "doubled" like that, with great results. Google and YouTube are your friends. I can only remember so many knots, and then have to punt.  Steve

PS: You will lose strength at any knot, with any type of line. Any. That's the way it is. Some knots are better than others. The problem is as simple as the line cutting itself easier with some knots. It might be possible to bind a set of Spectra lines like cables, but Spectra is still a new option for us, and it'll take time to develop the best method. And then, your plane may get loose on the lines.     

[Jim Svitko]

I see no reason NOT to use Spectra for flying toy planes.  The difference in weight between steel and Spectra is quite large.  And, the Spectra is easier to handle as it does not kink, thus resulting in a loss of strength.

As far as drag goes, I am not sure there is a difference.  Yes, there is more of a "bow" but that may be due to less mass, not more drag.  Overhead line tension is better since there is so much less weight to drag over the top.  Much less pucker factor for maneuvers like the reverse wingover, when the plane is at its heaviest.  (Not applicable for electric power).

As with anything else, it is a matter of personal preference.  Some like hard point handles, some prefer cable.  Some like foam wings, some prefer all-wood.  All work well enough so take your pick.

As mentioned, there is a loss of strength due to the knot.  But, with sufficient margin, it does not matter.

[Bootlegger]

 Does the Hi Vis Yellow cause any distractions when flying?  Thanks

[Jim Svitko]

Gil, I have never used the hi vis yellow so no personal experience regarding distraction.  I have heard from some who have used it that they were distracted by it to some degree.  The only way to find out is to try it.

If I use the Spectra I like the aqua green.  It does not show up on grass as well as the yellow but it can be seen, much better than the moss green color Spectra.  The aqua green is not distracting to me in the air.

[phil c]

Steve Helmick 
PS: You will lose strength at any knot, with any type of line. Any. That's the way it is. Some knots are better than others. The problem is as simple as the line cutting itself easier with some knots. It might be possible to bind a set of Spectra lines like cables, but Spectra is still a new option for us, and it'll take time to develop the best method. And then, your plane may get loose on the lines. 

I haven't tried it, but I can see any reason why you couldn't try the AMA line wrap procedure with an eyelet.  I'd use heavy thread, or a lighter weight of Spectra line for the serving with a half inch of tight wrapping.  Tie a stop knot in the end of the main line and work it up close to the serving to prevent slippage.

I can see the possibility of the main line sliding and bunching up all the serving into a lump.

Cheers!

Phil C

[Steve Helmick]

Steve Helmick 
PS: You will lose strength at any knot, with any type of line. Any. That's the way it is. Some knots are better than others. The problem is as simple as the line cutting itself easier with some knots. It might be possible to bind a set of Spectra lines like cables, but Spectra is still a new option for us, and it'll take time to develop the best method. And then, your plane may get loose on the lines. 

Yeah, I wrote the same thing. A very likely problem with Spectra is that you'll get a knot somewhere in the line, somehow, nobody knows how. We call them "Wind Knots". They just seem to show up. That's where your line will break. Bad juju might do it.

I haven't tried it, but I can see any reason why you couldn't try the AMA line wrap procedure with an eyelet.  I'd use heavy thread, or a lighter weight of Spectra line for the serving with a half inch of tight wrapping.  Tie a stop knot in the end of the main line and work it up close to the serving to prevent slippage.

I would encourage those interested to try various ideas on terminating Spectra lines NOT using KNOTS. Please do static tests first, and don't be shy about posting your results here...perhaps could avoid duplication of their failures? Maybe somebody would like to start a new thread (pun intended) and get a moderator to "pin" it at the top of one of the forums? 

I can see the possibility of the main line sliding and bunching up all the serving into a lump.

Yep, me too. Perhaps shrink tubing over would fix that. But then again, maybe the heat would screw up the Spectra.  Steve

Cheers!

Phil C

[Scott Hartford]

Guys, this stuff didn't just come out last week, people have been using it for years. Combat guys use it and it works well. The line usually comes with a booklet with instructions on knots that work well with their product. I have a few sets of lines in different sizes that have been in continuous use for about 6 years. I used a Palomar knot since it's so easy to get the lines exactly the right length and have never had a failure. I fly 10-15 sized planes on 10 lb. .008 line about 55', 35 size planes on 30 pound .012 line about 65', and 46 size on 40 lb. .015 at 70' The weight difference has to be experienced to be appreciated. I would suggest if you have never tried it and have any apprehension whatsoever, try it on a beater plane and see for yourself. I never met anyone who tried it and said they actually preferred steel in comparison. Some raise safety concerns, but they sure seem safer to me. They can get stepped on all day with no ill effects. They have been flying combat on them for years so there is some track record to refer back to. Trying is believing...

[Steve Helmick]

Well....I do have one plane that I'd not shed a tear over if it went away, and the .46LA has enough time on it, that I could probably survive without it. Plus, it appears that we'll soon be flying on grass someplace yet to be determined. I'll have to see if I can scrounge up some leftover 65 lb test Power Pro or get in on some of this from Bi-Mart for $10. The 300 yard spool of Super Slick 8 40 lb test came today via UPS, but it cost $40, and I'm not into 65 lb test line for fishing. I'll look into it, and maybe will try some terminal experiments.  Oh, that doesn't sound good! I have a feeling that Bi-Mart won't have 65 lb test. That's mostly trout country, where they use 2 lb monofil for 6" trout planters.  Steve

[mike londke]

Guys, this stuff didn't just come out last week, people have been using it for years. Combat guys use it and it works well. The line usually comes with a booklet with instructions on knots that work well with their product. I have a few sets of lines in different sizes that have been in continuous use for about 6 years. I used a Palomar knot since it's so easy to get the lines exactly the right length and have never had a failure. I fly 10-15 sized planes on 10 lb. .008 line about 55', 35 size planes on 30 pound .012 line about 65', and 46 size on 40 lb. .015 at 70' The weight difference has to be experienced to be appreciated. I would suggest if you have never tried it and have any apprehension whatsoever, try it on a beater plane and see for yourself. I never met anyone who tried it and said they actually preferred steel in comparison. Some raise safety concerns, but they sure seem safer to me. They can get stepped on all day with no ill effects. They have been flying combat on them for years so there is some track record to refer back to. Trying is believing...

Yep.

[Russell Shaffer]

I've been using this stuff for several years.  Did lots of testing before I hooked it to an airplane and it came out well.  I think that size for size (diameter measured with a dial caliper) that Spectra stretches less than cable.  Yes, it does break at the knot when testing to destruction,  and steel cable breaks at the termination whether crimped or wrapped.  Diameter for diameter, the Spectra took more pull to break but both line types will pull way more than pull test requirements with just one line.  As memory serves me, it seems that 60 pound Spectra broke at somewhere around 40 or 45. The equivalent steel broke a little sooner.  I test my lines now and then when I get nervous about them by pulling .015 size to 25 pounds each.  None of my stunt planes need a 50 pound pull.  Great for sport flying but you can't trim an airplane for flying with steel.  The tip weight will always be wrong, for one thing.  I suspect the lead out position will also be wrong.  So, for any serious competitor it is a waste of time.  For a guy with my skills it is fine.

[Russell Shaffer]

I'm not trying to be negative about the flying qualities of Spectra,  just pointing out that things will be a little different.  If the airplane is set up for steel lines, it will have too much tip weight with Spectra.  I also wonder if there might be some yaw issues because of the lighter weight on the inboard side.  It sure is nice not to have to worry about the lines getting stepped on though.  As far as Steve's wind knot thing, I don't think that can happen as long as both ends are attached to something larger than a fishing lure.  I have flown planes from a 28 ounce Ringmaster to a 40 plus TEOSAWKI on the same set of lines without any issues.  One suggestion for someone just starting to use this stuff - try some different knots and pull test them with a scale till they break.  It will be interesting.  Oh, and if the scale is one of those with the needle that turns around the dial, the needle will get knocked out of whack when the line breaks and it spins back against the little stop.  Who says old guys can't learn anything new.

[Steve Helmick]

I had a kind of brain...well, maybe not a "storm", but perhaps a "mist" or "shower" last night. I was thinking that one of the newer and more secure attachment methods for braid is the age-old "snell" knot. I'm trying to figure a design for a small piano wire widget that could be snell knotted, and then your favorite type of line clip attached to the widget. I considered combining the widget and clip, but then those of us who like to change clips to adjust neutral would be SOL. Those who use cable handles or are willing to change the overhang to adjust neutral would be fine with the solitary widget. So somebody please design a suitable widget, 'cause I'm busy with the Ring-Thing this weekend.  Steve 

[Russell Shaffer]

My widget is a small split ring from the tackle department.  Tie off hard to the ring.

[Scott Hartford]

Some I tie to thimbles, others I have tied directly to clips, works fine...

[Ara Dedekian]

My widget is a small split ring from the tackle department.  Tie off hard to the ring.

       Russell

            The split rings worked great. They make the ends easy to see (I have the green line) and easier to hook up. I made a set of 58' lines out of 30# Spectra Power Pro tying the split rings on both ends with a 'snell' type knot. Used them on a Ringmaster Jr/Fox 15 Schneurle.

       Ara