Leadout length

[Matthew Brown]

I have always kept the length of my leadouts to a minimum. Usually barely longer the wing at full deflection. I was looking at the leadouts on my Oriental ARF this morning and notice they are really long, like 6-8" hanging beyond the wing. I remembered also seeing a couple planes in the pits where I fly locally also having rather long leadouts. Is there a reason for having them extra long? I'm tempted to cut them off of my Oriental to what I consider a more normal length.

Matt

[FLOYD CARTER]

What is "normal"?    Too long, and the connector clips have more chance to lock together because the lines trend to come together at some length from the line guide.

[Air Ministry .]

I like to leave them out a way , so the aerodynamic disturbance from the clips is seperated from the airflow at the tip .
Besides if a few strands go at the loops , you can always shorten them to clean them up , the best excuse .

But Id want 3 in. before the bindings on a 40 size plane , maybe 4 1/2 . Using the double C clips , not the slider closer type .

[goozgog]

Hello Floyd,
                     I usually leave enough length beyond
the wingtip for at least one re-winding of the eyelets.

  Repairing bell cranks and lead outs means serious
cutting into the plane. I'll try anything to keep my
options open .

  I've never had any binding issues at the line connections.
(yet)

Cheers! - Keith

[Target]

I have always kept the length of my leadouts to a minimum. Usually barely longer the wing at full deflection. I was looking at the leadouts on my Oriental ARF this morning and notice they are really long, like 6-8" hanging beyond the wing. I remembered also seeing a couple planes in the pits where I fly locally also having rather long leadouts. Is there a reason for having them extra long? I'm tempted to cut them off of my Oriental to what I consider a more normal length.

Matt

Like some other guys, I figure one re-wrap of the exposed eyelets is a possibility.
On my ARF Oriental, I drilled a hole in the upper center sheeting, used a nut driver to remove the bell crank, and pulled it out and bushed and wrapped the lead outs at the BC. Then I reinstalled the BC with a longer bolt, tying it into a ply support at the top sheeting.
Also "flipped" the BC for front line up....Search "Shocking the Oriental" in the e power forum.
Pics are currently down, but Sparky will get them back up eventually.
http://stunthanger.com/smf/gettin-all-amp'ed-up!/shocking-the-oriental/

R,
Chris

[Steve Helmick]

Best idea with an ARF or ARC is to completely replace the leadouts, bushing the LO's at the BC with softened brass tubing and binding with copper wire, then cover the copper wire with heat shrink tubing. Same at the wingtip. More and more guys around here are making one leadout about 4"-5" longer than the other, so that 1) clips can't catch together and b) there's no way to connect the lines wrong. Use a simple fixture to bind both the leadouts and lines to get the offset the same...a piece of pine with some finishing nails for pins, "push fit" into the wood (use a drill press if you can).

Some of the BC mounts are suspect, so reinforce as you see fit. The BC apparently isn't a bad piece, but everything else is junk, including horns, pushrods and CA hinges. The control system is the heart of a model. If it's not well done, the rest doesn't matter too much.     Steve 

[Matthew Brown]

After Chris' post, I decided to look at possibly flipping the BC to have front line up. After looking it over a bit I didn't think it was worth the effort. Then I noticed it didn't look like the rear line had much of a crimp on it. Looking closer, I realized it wasn't crimped at all! I figured if the rear line wasn't crimped I had to check the front as well. After pulling the BC out, I found it also was missing any crimps. I figure while I have it out I might as well flip it as well. I drilled a new hole to relocate it further outboard to get the flap pushrod back close to center. I properly crimped both lines and reinstalled the BC and flap pushrod.

Matt

[Howard Rush]

I have always kept the length of my leadouts to a minimum. Usually barely longer the wing at full deflection. I was looking at the leadouts on my Oriental ARF this morning and notice they are really long, like 6-8" hanging beyond the wing. I remembered also seeing a couple planes in the pits where I fly locally also having rather long leadouts. Is there a reason for having them extra long? I'm tempted to cut them off of my Oriental to what I consider a more normal length.

I'd cut them.  Leadout wires have weight and drag in a place where it's particularly detrimental to have weight and drag.  A 1/32"-diameter leadout wire's drag coefficient is about 90X that of a stunt airfoil in level flight.  There are benefits to having staggered leadout lengths, and it's probably worth having them for the Oriental.  Namely, the line clips won't snag on each other, and you'll know right away if you hook the lines up backwards.  However, if you have as much leadout travel as you probably oughta, the longer staggered leadout would be really long. 

I intended to have staggered leadouts on one recent airplane, but I cut the one I intended to be the long one to the length I intended for the short one.  I got used to feeling the clips bumping each other in maneuvers. 

[Steve Helmick]

The ARF/ARC leadout material is substandard, the control horns suck and are too short, the pushrods are dubious, and crimping is not safe unless done properly with the correct crimps and crimped with the correct tool. Replace all that junk! "Up" in back is apparently back in style. Not sure if I would be able to tell the difference myself.  While you're in there, do it right!    Steve

[Howard Rush]

The ARF/ARC leadout material is substandard, the control horns suck and are too short, the pushrods are dubious, and crimping is not safe unless done properly with the correct crimps and crimped with the correct tool. Replace all that junk!

I had an ARF Nobler and started to go through that process. I eventually decided that the whole thing needed to be replaced, and I gave it to Dave Gardner.

[Matthew Brown]

The idea behind this Oriental is to get in the air quick while I finish a couple kits. While I agree the elevator and flap joiners are pretty soft, I think they'll get the job done for a while. Same with the CA hinges. I hate them because you have to leave so much gap and they are so stiff but they'll be good enough for this ARF.

Matt

[Howard Rush]

"Up" in back is apparently back in style.

I just checked the stunt planes around my house.  White dog: up in back.  Yellow dog: up in front.  Delaney Twin Pathfinder: Up in front.  All are good stunters.  I built both the white and yellow dogs intending to use backward props, which I think you insist in calling left-handed.  I forgot while building the yellow dog that the Igor system changed the sign on the bellcrank output, so up is in front.  Then I switched to right-handed props on both airplanes.  So now the yellow one is right and the white one is wrong.  That's how Science is done.  

[FLOYD CARTER]

I still have stunters built back as far as 1963, and still with the same leadouts.  Why would they need to be re-worked?  I use brass eyelets and do the AMA-Wrap on them.  They last as long as the rest of the plane (maybe longer?)

Floyd

[Target]

Matt!

I'm really happy I mentioned the whole BC service. I would have hated to hear of your way too soon crash, or almost as bad, no flying after the first pull test of the model.
Sounds like you are good to go now.
I spent quite a while futzing with my plane for an ARF, but it was my first E conversion, first ARF, and so on and so forth.
Any ARF in the future will have dust coming out of it an the first 30 minutes of assembly. ARC would be my preference, behind a kit, behind a plans or scratch built model. LoL!
The ARF's fly good for what they are though, and when I fly one, I'm not too worried if I crash.

Best luck on the build and maiden.

R,
Chris

[Mark Scarborough]

The idea behind this Oriental is to get in the air quick while I finish a couple kits. While I agree the elevator and flap joiners are pretty soft, I think they'll get the job done for a while. Same with the CA hinges. I hate them because you have to leave so much gap and they are so stiff but they'll be good enough for this ARF.

Matt

MATT,
I know you will do what you will, but those CA hinges are not acceptable on a stunter, that stiffness is a real problem if you get into a light line tension situation. you will not have enough line tension to overcome the stiffness in the hinges. Please do yourself a favor and use barrel hinges. You will already have the slots cut, all you need to do is install the barrell hinges.

[Tim Wescott]

MATT,
I know you will do what you will, but those CA hinges are not acceptable on a stunter, that stiffness is a real problem if you get into a light line tension situation. you will not have enough line tension to overcome the stiffness in the hinges. Please do yourself a favor and use barrel hinges. You will already have the slots cut, all you need to do is install the barrell hinges.

It's stuff like this that makes me question why one would want to build an ARF at all.  I mean -- I kind of understand it, but...

I flew a Skyray 35 for a year or so that had CA hinges, and never once did I crash it because of light line tension.  I crashed it for just about every other reason, including the thing diving straight down at me from the top of the circle ("no line tension" is different from "light line tension" -- right?), but never because of light line tension.

Here's what I looked like to the plane in those cases: