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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Clancy Arnold on April 25, 2010, 04:53:23 PM
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Tuesday April 20, My wife Pat and I visited Marvin Denny and his wife Ree.
As a souvenir of my visit Marvin gave me a model.that needs restoration. I will get it ready to fly before the next Brodak Fly-In. When I emailed Marvin asking what the name of the model was he replied “As for the name of the plane, I have NO idea what it is. It appears to be an original similar to the combat models of the 1950 era only blown up about 10% I picked it up at an antique shop in Ellis KS along with some eight bolt sand cast Fox 35s. Lets just say that it is an "original" of somebodys.”
It has a 47 inch wing span with 10 ½ inch tip cord and 11 ¾ root cord giving it 500 sq inch wing area. With a sharp leading edge and a 1 5/8 thick airfoil that peaks at 3 ½ inches behind the leading edge it should fly fast. The model has an 18 inch span tail. The motor mount bolt hole spacing of ¾ x 1 9/16 inches almost fits an OS 40 FP. The model as received weighs 23.5 ounces. With an OS 40 FP or OS 25 FSR we are talking of a flying weight of about 40 ounces.
Can anyone identify this model?
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I have no clue Clancy, but the first thing I thought of was some type of RM? At least the tail reminds me of one.
How lucky you were to visit the Denny's. Good people.
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Paul
Marvin sent me an email and said the original engine was a Veco 35.
Clancy
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Clancy, I did that once, and got a couple flights in before the bellcrank tower turned loose and the old imperial went in nose first doing about 80mph and buried the K&B .40 about 6" into the sod. Might want to lay in some epoxy while you have it on your mind ;) H^^
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Glad you described the type of cowling. It joggled my memory banks and I remembered that there was some parts in the Antique Flight box I have plans to donate to the Brodak museum, so I went out and looked (that was a part of the barrel you didn't see) and there is a sort of "semi-cowl" and a spinner in there. I'll bet that they go with that plane. I will package them up and send them to you tomorrow.
Bigiron
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Marvin.
Thanks! I will watch for the box to arrive.
John
I have allready opened up the wing to check on the condition of the bellcrank as the leadouts are only the size of flying lines! First thing I saw was that there was NO nut on the bolt holding the bellcrank to the 1/16 plywood bellcrank mount.
I am planning to use either an OS 25 FP or FSR engine. I am leaning towards the FSR with one of my U/Tronics Control single channel units. I love flying with a throttle. It gives a 4-2-4 break that cannot be beat. It also increases the fuel mileage and this model only has a 3 oz tank (1 x 2 x 3 inch) installed and no obvious space for a larger tank. I just measured and could go to a 3 1/2 inch tank but that is not enough extra fuel to worry about. Final decision depends on results of leak testing the current tank.
Clancy
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Ringmaster inspired, but better looking IMHO
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Ringmaster inspired, but better looking IMHO
Everyone is entitled to IMOH and I respect them all but I have seed some awesome Ringmasters in the last 3 years, S1's included. The lowly Ringmaster is about to come of age.
"Billy G" S?P
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I always thought the "Ringmaster" was a pretty plane. H^^
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I have to replace 3 ribs so I traced the airfoil at the wing tip. This looks like it will fly very fast.
Note that there are 5 spars plus the leading edge. The wing is sheeted from the front 1/8 in sq spars to the leading edge and from the rear 1/8 in sq spars to the trailing edge fixed flap. The main spar is 3/8 x 3/8. I plan to add 1/16 shear webs between each set of 1/8 sq spars. I will jig it straight as after adding the webs that will lock in any warps.
Clancy
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I have to agree it does look a lot like a Ringmaster, not the wings but the body looks to me a lot like a Super Ringmaster with the body shaved, even the rudder and LG.......
Dalton H.
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Dalton
I restored a Super Ringmaster earlier so I placed the two together and took a picture.
Several differences show. The original design of the S/RM had a cockpit similar to a Smoothie. My S/RM has an open cockpit. The S/O has a bubble canopy, removed for access to bellcrank.
R/M has tapered rib length. The S/O has constant length ribs and a tapered fixed flap like a Barnstormer.
The tail is very different, The RM has an elliptical tail and the S/O has a more traditional shape but it has an unusual hinge line. The ends turn forward 45 Degrees giving them a mass balance in front of the hinge line.
I left off my post above that the ribs have cap strips between the leading and trailing edge sheeting.
Work progresses,
Clancy
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Marvin
It looks like you sent me the correct cowl and spinner. That is an OS 25 FSR setting there. I will only have to trim the cowl a little to clear the engine and muffler.
I have replaced the .017 dia. leadouts with .029 dia. leadouts. While I was at it I put a new Self locking 6 x 2 nut on the bellcrank mounting screw. I also enlarged the holes in the ribs to stop the leadouts from rubbing on the ribs.
The fuel tank checked good and it holds 3.5 oz. When I flushed it out there was no noticeable junk come out. Leak test next.
I think the ancestry of the S/O is more likely a Barnstormer than a RM. I checked and the airfoil for the S/O matches the Barnstormer closely except for rib length. See picture. The big difference is the rudder which looks like an early model Spitfire rudder.
Clancy
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Worked some on the S/O today. Replaced the third broken rib and added the cap strips. This was a challenge to replace three complete ribs with a 3/8 sq. main spar down the middle. I cut out the ribs and then split them length wise down the center line. Then I worked the rib halves under the leading and trailing edge sheeting and then rotated each piece 90 degrees to stand vertical. After the second half was in place I pinned scrap pieces to the rib halves to keep them aligned until the glue dried.
The engine is now installed. Marvin said the original engine was a Veco 35. I have installed an OS 25 FSR with throttle. Current weight is 34.7 ounces. add 1.3 ounces for the U/Tronics and 3 or 4 ounces for the $cote and it should be about 40 ounces with 500 sq. inch wing area.
Clancy
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Sounds like this is going to be one fun airplane. H^^
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The Somebodys Original is ready for test flight!!
Ready to fly weight is 42.0 ounces and it balances 1 1/2 inches back of the leading edge. Power is an OS 25 FSR on U/Tronics electronic throttle. The engine will easily pull a 10 x 6 Master Airscrew on 10 % nitro fuel.
I covered the wing with EconoKote. It was the easiest film covering I have ever worked with and the only time I have successfully covered the wing and tip with a single piece. I guess there is something to "read and follow the instructions provided."
The 4.8 volt battery pack is located in the outboard wing root. The power switch is on the left side near the back end of the bubble canopy and the servo and U/Tronics unit are visible behind the pilot.
Thanks Marvin for the gift of a model airplane.
Clancy
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Like I say Ty--- "there ain't no originals anymore---just different assembly of a lot of different already designed parts". But I really think the SO dates back to the early 50s as evidenced by some of the construction and other stuff I got along with it.
Bigiron
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Ty, Marvin
As soon as I get the chance the "Somebodys Original" will fly again.
Ty, I hope the Ambroid holds together when I land it!!
Clancy